bin Laden's truce
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Michel Prévost wrote:
And also, many believe that the christian's God and Allah are the same "entity", but with different names, but I am not sure.
If some do believe this, they are uneducated. My mom told me once that "while we all don't speak the same language, everyone in the world undestands an asskicking" Kim0618 wrote: "the father of Bush's mother is also Bush's mother"
And you are? you possess the divine truth? -------- "I say no to drugs, but they don't listen." - Marilyn Manson
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Michel Prévost wrote:
Ever heard of the Crusades?
I suggest the following book. The Politically Incorrect Guide to Islam (And the Crusades)[^] One of the reasons for crusades was the Arab(Islamic) conquest of Holy Land. This is not to say that all the crusades were justified.
Michel Prévost wrote:
You will see that the Islam's followers are not the only ones in history that has committed mass murders in the name of God.
While it is true that followers of other religions have also committed mass murders, in the name of religion, nothing matches the murders committed by followers of Islam. This is one of the reasons why Islam is probably the most hated religion. I am not saying that all followers of Islam want violence. There are several good muslims who say the prayers five times a day, go to mosque on fridays and are useful contributing members to the society. Unfortuantely, because of the fanatical muslims the image of the entire religion is tarnished.
I agree with you on most points. And it does not go against what I originally said, which is also the truth. -------- "I say no to drugs, but they don't listen." - Marilyn Manson
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.... is not only a particularity of only the muslims. -------- "I say no to drugs, but they don't listen." - Marilyn Manson
Agreed.
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We weren't discussing history. But thank's for brilliant insight anyway ... :rolleyes:
Michel Prévost wrote:
Do some research on the net, to educate yourself.
Obviously, thats where you got your education. At least it was free, eh? "If anything, the West is awash in an epidemic of self-hate crimes." "a civilization that feels guilty for everything it is and does will lack the energy and conviction to defend itself"
Stan Shannon wrote:
We weren't discussing history. But thank's for brilliant insight anyway ...
You are right, on both points. ;P
Stan Shannon wrote:
Obviously, thats where you got your education. At least it was free, eh?
No, it was not free, although probably much cheaper than in the USA. This explains the impressive amount of uneducated people you find there compared to other countries. -------- "I say no to drugs, but they don't listen." - Marilyn Manson
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Michel Prévost wrote:
Ever heard of the Crusades?
Oh well - if Christians did it hundreds of years ago it must be OK for Muslims to do it now?? How did that logic work with your parents? "Mom - he hit me first!":doh::doh: "The world is a dangerous place to live, not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it." Albert Einstein Dave
Who did hit who first? That is the question. As my mom would say: "Stop that, I don't care who started!". -------- "I say no to drugs, but they don't listen." - Marilyn Manson
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And you are? you possess the divine truth? -------- "I say no to drugs, but they don't listen." - Marilyn Manson
He possesses nothing of the sort. :)
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Michel Prévost wrote:
And also, many believe that the christian's God and Allah are the same "entity", but with different names, but I am not sure.
If some do believe this, they are uneducated. My mom told me once that "while we all don't speak the same language, everyone in the world undestands an asskicking" Kim0618 wrote: "the father of Bush's mother is also Bush's mother"
It is you who are uneducated. Judaism, Christianity and Islam comes from the same source. It's just that these religions have diverged quite a lot over the years. Particularly Islam and the Judeo-Christian side. Take a look at all the prophets mentioned in the Qur'an, and you will see that these guys are all over the OT as well as Jesus: http://islam.about.com/library/weekly/aa061399.htm[^]
God is God. What that sets these religions apart is what God represents and what he wants from the people. Hell, not all Christian groups agree on what is the truth.
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.... is not only a particularity of only the muslims. -------- "I say no to drugs, but they don't listen." - Marilyn Manson
Currently, it is. "If anything, the West is awash in an epidemic of self-hate crimes." "a civilization that feels guilty for everything it is and does will lack the energy and conviction to defend itself"
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Currently, it is. "If anything, the West is awash in an epidemic of self-hate crimes." "a civilization that feels guilty for everything it is and does will lack the energy and conviction to defend itself"
That is true, I have to agree. -------- "I say no to drugs, but they don't listen." - Marilyn Manson
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It is you who are uneducated. Judaism, Christianity and Islam comes from the same source. It's just that these religions have diverged quite a lot over the years. Particularly Islam and the Judeo-Christian side. Take a look at all the prophets mentioned in the Qur'an, and you will see that these guys are all over the OT as well as Jesus: http://islam.about.com/library/weekly/aa061399.htm[^]
God is God. What that sets these religions apart is what God represents and what he wants from the people. Hell, not all Christian groups agree on what is the truth.
Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote:
the OT as well as Jesus
Jesus was Off Topic? Wow. regards, Paul Watson Ireland Colib and ilikecameras. K(arl) wrote: oh, and BTW, CHRISTIAN ISN'T A PARADOX, HE IS A TASMANIAN!
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Michel Prévost wrote:
Ever heard of the Crusades?
I suggest the following book. The Politically Incorrect Guide to Islam (And the Crusades)[^] One of the reasons for crusades was the Arab(Islamic) conquest of Holy Land. This is not to say that all the crusades were justified.
Michel Prévost wrote:
You will see that the Islam's followers are not the only ones in history that has committed mass murders in the name of God.
While it is true that followers of other religions have also committed mass murders, in the name of religion, nothing matches the murders committed by followers of Islam. This is one of the reasons why Islam is probably the most hated religion. I am not saying that all followers of Islam want violence. There are several good muslims who say the prayers five times a day, go to mosque on fridays and are useful contributing members to the society. Unfortuantely, because of the fanatical muslims the image of the entire religion is tarnished.
Rama Krishna Vavilala wrote:
nothing matches the murders committed by followers of Islam
Got any reading on that? regards, Paul Watson Ireland Colib and ilikecameras. K(arl) wrote: oh, and BTW, CHRISTIAN ISN'T A PARADOX, HE IS A TASMANIAN!
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And you are? you possess the divine truth? -------- "I say no to drugs, but they don't listen." - Marilyn Manson
Michel Prévost wrote:
And you are? you possess the divine truth?
No, never said I was. But I've read a lot of the Koran. And Since Muslims believe the Koran can straight from God, unlike the Christian/Jewish books, I know there are diffrences in the way God is reflected. So, No, the muslim God is not the same. My mom told me once that "while we all don't speak the same language, everyone in the world undestands an asskicking" Kim0618 wrote: "the father of Bush's mother is also Bush's mother"
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It is you who are uneducated. Judaism, Christianity and Islam comes from the same source. It's just that these religions have diverged quite a lot over the years. Particularly Islam and the Judeo-Christian side. Take a look at all the prophets mentioned in the Qur'an, and you will see that these guys are all over the OT as well as Jesus: http://islam.about.com/library/weekly/aa061399.htm[^]
God is God. What that sets these religions apart is what God represents and what he wants from the people. Hell, not all Christian groups agree on what is the truth.
NO, you are wrong. All three believe in Abraham, that is about it. Muslims believe God dropped a book in the desert and gave it to Muhammad. So that means everything in the koran in written by God, and cannot be judged. It's final. So, knowing this. Read how women and non-believers should be treated, written by God, and tell me if that is the same forgiving God of the Christian God. My mom told me once that "while we all don't speak the same language, everyone in the world undestands an asskicking" Kim0618 wrote: "the father of Bush's mother is also Bush's mother"
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And you are? you possess the divine truth? -------- "I say no to drugs, but they don't listen." - Marilyn Manson
Any half literate person can tell that the God of the Bible and Allah are mutually exclusive, they simply cannot be the same. You don't need to believe in any God to see that. Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++
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Any half literate person can tell that the God of the Bible and Allah are mutually exclusive, they simply cannot be the same. You don't need to believe in any God to see that. Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++
Any half literate person would have read carefully what I said about that. Move 4 posts up, you will be able to re-read it. And for your information, Christianism, Judaism, and Islam were founded in the same 25 square meters (I don't have the real measurements, I am just illustrating, but you get the idea). Jerusalem, thrice a sanctified city, cradle of the 3 religions mentioned above (this is very well documented). I think it reasonable to think that Jehovah, Allah, and God are the same person (I have no proof of that, but you may find on the Internet many articles about it, whether it is true or not, both sides have arguments), carefully interpreted in different way by the 3 religions, to reflect the beliefs of the spirituous leaders of the time.
Christian Graus wrote:
Any half literate person can tell that the God of the Bible and Allah are mutually exclusive
Could you give an example? <edit>Made a mistake about the number of posts to move up, and added a comment.>/edit< -------- "I say no to drugs, but they don't listen." - Marilyn Manson -- modified at 21:55 Thursday 19th January, 2006
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Any half literate person would have read carefully what I said about that. Move 4 posts up, you will be able to re-read it. And for your information, Christianism, Judaism, and Islam were founded in the same 25 square meters (I don't have the real measurements, I am just illustrating, but you get the idea). Jerusalem, thrice a sanctified city, cradle of the 3 religions mentioned above (this is very well documented). I think it reasonable to think that Jehovah, Allah, and God are the same person (I have no proof of that, but you may find on the Internet many articles about it, whether it is true or not, both sides have arguments), carefully interpreted in different way by the 3 religions, to reflect the beliefs of the spirituous leaders of the time.
Christian Graus wrote:
Any half literate person can tell that the God of the Bible and Allah are mutually exclusive
Could you give an example? <edit>Made a mistake about the number of posts to move up, and added a comment.>/edit< -------- "I say no to drugs, but they don't listen." - Marilyn Manson -- modified at 21:55 Thursday 19th January, 2006
Michel Prévost wrote:
Any half literate person would have read carefully what I said about that.
What - 'and you possess divine truth' ? That's what I replied to.
Michel Prévost wrote:
were founded in the same 25 square meters
Really ? I thought Islam was founded in Africa, thanks for the insight.
Michel Prévost wrote:
I think it reasonable to think that Jehovah, Allah, and God are the same person
Well, that's just dumb on so many levels. 1. Have you read the Quran ? If not, how can you comment ? 2. If they are the same, why would Mohammed have bothered writing the Quran, if he had two other religions to choose from that were, according to you, the same ?
Michel Prévost wrote:
(I have no proof of that, but you may find on the Internet many articles about it, whether it is true or not, both sides have arguments).
Sure. My argument is that any suggestion that the god presented in the Quran is the same as the God of Christianity or even Judaism involves a lot of faith and a lot of refusing to read any of the texts involved.
Michel Prévost wrote:
Could you give an example?
The most obvious example I can think of is that in the NT, Jesus claimed to be the Son of God. In the Quran, Jesus is just a man. That's a pretty big part of the nature of the Christian God that Islam rejects, making the two entities fundamentally different. I also found heaps of stuff on how the Quran contradicts the Bible via google, but mostly with regard to the details of stories. Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++
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Any half literate person can tell that the God of the Bible and Allah are mutually exclusive, they simply cannot be the same. You don't need to believe in any God to see that. Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++
Christian Graus wrote:
the God of the Bible and Allah are mutually exclusive
Care to give some more details?
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Christian Graus wrote:
the God of the Bible and Allah are mutually exclusive
Care to give some more details?
I just did. The fundamental thing is that Islam basically rejects Christ, and instead follows on from the old testament in a way that's more in line with a strict, legalistic view of the OT. In that sense, the Jewish God and Allah are not as different from each other as they are both very different to the Christian God. A fundamental difference would be that Islam essentially rejects Christ, and Christ is the central platform of the Christian God's plan for His creation, and the expression of His nature. Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++
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Michel Prévost wrote:
Any half literate person would have read carefully what I said about that.
What - 'and you possess divine truth' ? That's what I replied to.
Michel Prévost wrote:
were founded in the same 25 square meters
Really ? I thought Islam was founded in Africa, thanks for the insight.
Michel Prévost wrote:
I think it reasonable to think that Jehovah, Allah, and God are the same person
Well, that's just dumb on so many levels. 1. Have you read the Quran ? If not, how can you comment ? 2. If they are the same, why would Mohammed have bothered writing the Quran, if he had two other religions to choose from that were, according to you, the same ?
Michel Prévost wrote:
(I have no proof of that, but you may find on the Internet many articles about it, whether it is true or not, both sides have arguments).
Sure. My argument is that any suggestion that the god presented in the Quran is the same as the God of Christianity or even Judaism involves a lot of faith and a lot of refusing to read any of the texts involved.
Michel Prévost wrote:
Could you give an example?
The most obvious example I can think of is that in the NT, Jesus claimed to be the Son of God. In the Quran, Jesus is just a man. That's a pretty big part of the nature of the Christian God that Islam rejects, making the two entities fundamentally different. I also found heaps of stuff on how the Quran contradicts the Bible via google, but mostly with regard to the details of stories. Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++
Christian Graus wrote:
What - 'and you possess divine truth' ? That's what I replied to.
But that was my reply to a reply of my reply.
Christian Graus wrote:
Really ? I thought Islam was founded in Africa, thanks for the insight.
You're welcome.
Christian Graus wrote:
Well, that's just dumb on so many levels. 1. Have you read the Quran ? If not, how can you comment ? 2. If they are the same, why would Mohammed have bothered writing the Quran, if he had two other religions to choose from that were, according to you, the same ?
I don't have to read the Quran. There are lots of documentation about that, whether it is in favor of the idea or not. If you read my original reply, I say:
And also, many believe that the christian's God and Allah are the same "entity", but with different names, but I am not sure.
Please, don't make it look like I made a statement.
Christian Graus wrote:
Sure. My argument is that any suggestion that the god presented in the Quran is the same as the God of Christianity or even Judaism involves a lot of faith and a lot of refusing to read any of the texts involved.
That is your argument about the subject. I don't have any, I was just mentioning what some people believed (or not).
Christian Graus wrote:
The most obvious example I can think of is that in the NT, Jesus claimed to be the Son of God. In the Quran, Jesus is just a man. That's a pretty big part of the nature of the Christian God that Islam rejects, making the two entities fundamentally different. I also found heaps of stuff on how the Quran contradicts the Bible via google, but mostly with regard to the details of stories.
You refer to books that often contradicts themselves. Do you believe those books? They were written by lunatics. You know, people have different points of view that often differ, and often people don't agree with other's opinions, and go to war to crush them just because they don't think the same. I find this very dumb, whatever side does (mine or theirs). It is just plain stupid. And to justify their point of views, they write books about illuminations and revelations they had. Give me a break, here! On a totally unrelated note, I have a good movie suggestion for
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Any half literate person would have read carefully what I said about that. Move 4 posts up, you will be able to re-read it. And for your information, Christianism, Judaism, and Islam were founded in the same 25 square meters (I don't have the real measurements, I am just illustrating, but you get the idea). Jerusalem, thrice a sanctified city, cradle of the 3 religions mentioned above (this is very well documented). I think it reasonable to think that Jehovah, Allah, and God are the same person (I have no proof of that, but you may find on the Internet many articles about it, whether it is true or not, both sides have arguments), carefully interpreted in different way by the 3 religions, to reflect the beliefs of the spirituous leaders of the time.
Christian Graus wrote:
Any half literate person can tell that the God of the Bible and Allah are mutually exclusive
Could you give an example? <edit>Made a mistake about the number of posts to move up, and added a comment.>/edit< -------- "I say no to drugs, but they don't listen." - Marilyn Manson -- modified at 21:55 Thursday 19th January, 2006
Michel Prévost wrote:
Christianism, Judaism, and Islam were founded in the same 25 square meters
Christianity (according to Christian belief)is the logical progression, Christ being the predicted savior.
Michel Prévost wrote:
Could you give an example?
the God of Islam commands death to unbelievers. there'll be a hew and cry from Muslims saying, "you're misinterpreting", but if I am so are a subset of Muslims. I blieve it, they act it out. --------------- and whether or not there is any real truth in the above, it simply doesn't matter because as long as they (Muslims) act as though: that fucking part of the world is their's in it's entirety, to the exclusion of Jews; they can attack my country because of some harebrained bullshit then they'll be on the recieving and of whatever my country can throw at them. Mike "We ain't stuck on stupid." badass Lt. General Russel Honore **"Remember - live bunnies are a great source of nourishment"**silly-assed cartoon A vegan is someone who never heard a carrot cry!