Mohammed guest role on "The Simpsons" in doubt
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So if I make an offensive joke that has is just my opinion it is OK too? Nunc est bibendum
fat_boy wrote:
So if I make an offensive joke that has is just my opinion it is OK too?
As long as it is not slander or libel then yes it is protect speech...BUT...let us not forget, "FREE" speech is never really free. It always has a price to pay as there will always be those who would wish you to shut-up. "Art doesn't want to be familiar. It wants to astonish us. Or, in some cases, to enrage us. It wants to move us. To touch us. Not accommodate us, make us comfortable." -- Jamake Highwater Toasty0.com My Grandkids
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espeir wrote:
Says who?
When you make a horror movie and it's forbidden to show, then it's not because of free speech is limited. Free speech is to tell your opinion, that is part of many constitutions and say tell that you have to tell your opinion. So most constitutions say. ------------------------------ A bug in a Microsoft Product? No! It's not a bug it's an undocumented feature!
The American constitution doesn't say that. In fact it doesn't even define what speech is. The word "opinion" doesn't appear anywhere in the US constition. I'm not disagreeing that stating your opinion is free speech. I'm disagreeing that satire (i.e. making fun of someone) isn't. Ben Franklin, who largely started the free press in the US, practically made a career out of making fun of people. It's an American tradition!
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If you make a joke it's okay. But if you tell a lie it's not. If the offensive joke shows the truth, tell it. If you have a joke that is not truth but not offensive then you can tell it. But when it's a lie and offensive then you should make up your mind if you tell it anyway. Because there are more rights and even higher then free speech. There are the rights liberty, equality and human dignity which are above the right of free speech. If you like to make a joke about me or germany I won't mind. I've got dozens of these and some are really funny. Greetings, Ingo ------------------------------ A bug in a Microsoft Product? No! It's not a bug it's an undocumented feature!
ihoecken wrote:
There are the rights liberty, equality and human dignity which are above the right of free speech.
Equality is a right? I'm going to call Bill Gates right now and demand that he give me half his money! I am also apparently physically unable to trip and fall on my face in public, because that would be a violation of my right to human dignity!
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The American constitution doesn't say that. In fact it doesn't even define what speech is. The word "opinion" doesn't appear anywhere in the US constition. I'm not disagreeing that stating your opinion is free speech. I'm disagreeing that satire (i.e. making fun of someone) isn't. Ben Franklin, who largely started the free press in the US, practically made a career out of making fun of people. It's an American tradition!
espeir wrote:
I'm disagreeing that satire (i.e. making fun of someone) isn't.
I didn't said that satire isn't free speech. I just said you can't say that sarire is free speech. Jokes can be free speech of course but not every joke is free speech. So you can't claim the right to make every joke because of free speech. Ingo ------------------------------ A bug in a Microsoft Product? No! It's not a bug it's an undocumented feature!
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ihoecken wrote:
There are the rights liberty, equality and human dignity which are above the right of free speech.
Equality is a right? I'm going to call Bill Gates right now and demand that he give me half his money! I am also apparently physically unable to trip and fall on my face in public, because that would be a violation of my right to human dignity!
espeir wrote:
Equality is a right? I'm going to call Bill Gates right now and demand that he give me half his money!
Equality under the law. I thought I don't have to state the complete because you should know what is ment. ------------------------------ A bug in a Microsoft Product? No! It's not a bug it's an undocumented feature!
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fat_boy wrote:
So if I make an offensive joke that has is just my opinion it is OK too?
As long as it is not slander or libel then yes it is protect speech...BUT...let us not forget, "FREE" speech is never really free. It always has a price to pay as there will always be those who would wish you to shut-up. "Art doesn't want to be familiar. It wants to astonish us. Or, in some cases, to enrage us. It wants to move us. To touch us. Not accommodate us, make us comfortable." -- Jamake Highwater Toasty0.com My Grandkids
Toasty0 wrote:
As long as it is not slander or libel then yes it is protect speech...BUT...let us not forget, "FREE" speech is never really free. It always has a price to pay as there will always be those who would wish you to shut-up.
Good point. ------------------------------ A bug in a Microsoft Product? No! It's not a bug it's an undocumented feature!
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espeir wrote:
I'm disagreeing that satire (i.e. making fun of someone) isn't.
I didn't said that satire isn't free speech. I just said you can't say that sarire is free speech. Jokes can be free speech of course but not every joke is free speech. So you can't claim the right to make every joke because of free speech. Ingo ------------------------------ A bug in a Microsoft Product? No! It's not a bug it's an undocumented feature!
Actually, yes, you can. A statement made as a joke can only rarely, if ever, be considered defamatory. You also don't run into the "fire in a crowded theater" argument with jokes, so I'd have to say that every joke would be considered free speech. When would this not be the case?
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espeir wrote:
I'm disagreeing that satire (i.e. making fun of someone) isn't.
I didn't said that satire isn't free speech. I just said you can't say that sarire is free speech. Jokes can be free speech of course but not every joke is free speech. So you can't claim the right to make every joke because of free speech. Ingo ------------------------------ A bug in a Microsoft Product? No! It's not a bug it's an undocumented feature!
ihoecken wrote:
I just said you can't say that sarire is free speech.
Who are you to say what I can't say? We have free speech in this country!
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espeir wrote:
Equality is a right? I'm going to call Bill Gates right now and demand that he give me half his money!
Equality under the law. I thought I don't have to state the complete because you should know what is ment. ------------------------------ A bug in a Microsoft Product? No! It's not a bug it's an undocumented feature!
You really do have to say "equality under law" because socialists actually believe that "equality" is a right and they try to intentionally confuse the two. They are two very different things.
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Actually, yes, you can. A statement made as a joke can only rarely, if ever, be considered defamatory. You also don't run into the "fire in a crowded theater" argument with jokes, so I'd have to say that every joke would be considered free speech. When would this not be the case?
Vincent Reynolds wrote:
When would this not be the case?
When the only aim is to insult and the jokes is based on lies. This has nothing to do with free speech. A like is never free speech. ------------------------------ A bug in a Microsoft Product? No! It's not a bug it's an undocumented feature!
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ihoecken wrote:
I just said you can't say that sarire is free speech.
Who are you to say what I can't say? We have free speech in this country!
espeir wrote:
We have free speech in this country!
And a bucket load of twats willing to sue anyone who says something they don't like. Michael Martin Australia "I controlled my laughter and simple said "No,I am very busy,so I can't write any code for you". The moment they heard this all the smiling face turned into a sad looking face and one of them farted. So I had to leave the place as soon as possible." - Mr.Prakash 24/04/2004
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ihoecken wrote:
I just said you can't say that sarire is free speech.
Who are you to say what I can't say? We have free speech in this country!
espeir wrote:
Who are you to say what I can't say? We have free speech in this country!
Yes we have and I used free speech. When we have free speech I can say that you aren't allowed to say somthing. This you didn't ment YOU! It was ment generally. P.S.: Do we want to discuss the things said or do we just want to be kidding? In the first case you can argue with me in the second case (and I got the strange feeling you prefer the second one) I don't want to discuss with you any longer ------------------------------ A bug in a Microsoft Product? No! It's not a bug it's an undocumented feature! -- modified at 11:03 Thursday 9th February, 2006
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espeir wrote:
We have free speech in this country!
And a bucket load of twats willing to sue anyone who says something they don't like. Michael Martin Australia "I controlled my laughter and simple said "No,I am very busy,so I can't write any code for you". The moment they heard this all the smiling face turned into a sad looking face and one of them farted. So I had to leave the place as soon as possible." - Mr.Prakash 24/04/2004
You're lucky you live in Australia or I'd have my lawyer give you a call for causing me irrepairable emotional harm by disparing my country.
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espeir wrote:
Who are you to say what I can't say? We have free speech in this country!
Yes we have and I used free speech. When we have free speech I can say that you aren't allowed to say somthing. This you didn't ment YOU! It was ment generally. P.S.: Do we want to discuss the things said or do we just want to be kidding? In the first case you can argue with me in the second case (and I got the strange feeling you prefer the second one) I don't want to discuss with you any longer ------------------------------ A bug in a Microsoft Product? No! It's not a bug it's an undocumented feature! -- modified at 11:03 Thursday 9th February, 2006
But I want to discuss this with you. Given that we have free speech here, that is clearly my right. Also, you lied because you said that I can't say satire is free speech, but I DID say it! That means your speech isn't protected and you should be imprisoned.
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http://www.chaser.com.au/content/view/2998/26/[^] C'mon people! This is stupid. Are you going to let a bunch of nutters and whackos self-censor the right to free speech.
- I may disagree with what you have to say, but I shall defend, to the death, your right to say it. --Voltaire (1694-1778)
Not quite up to the standard of the simpsons... http://www.brusselsjournal.com/node/698
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But I want to discuss this with you. Given that we have free speech here, that is clearly my right. Also, you lied because you said that I can't say satire is free speech, but I DID say it! That means your speech isn't protected and you should be imprisoned.
When I wouldn't know that you're twelve or less, I would answer with a shake of the head. But so I hope you will be grown-up one day and then we can discuss again. ------------------------------ A bug in a Microsoft Product? No! It's not a bug it's an undocumented feature!
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You confuse free speech with amusement. Free speech is the right to tell the 1) truth and 2) your opinion. Not to make jokes or to offend someone. But I think your right, when you say this censorship is a mistake. I agree in this point with you. Greetings, Ingo ------------------------------ A bug in a Microsoft Product? No! It's not a bug it's an undocumented feature!
No free speech is the right to say what you want with very few limitations "Fire in a crowded theater" for safety. If what I say offends you walk away and listen to what does not offend you. You really need to look at what the founding fathers had in mind when writing the constitution. A good place to start is the federalist papers. You do not have the right to not be offended. Heck I hear things that offend me every day but I don't go around and whine about it. You have the right to say what you want and so do I. What you are thinking of is more like a college "speech code". http://hnn.us/articles/11276.html
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When I wouldn't know that you're twelve or less, I would answer with a shake of the head. But so I hope you will be grown-up one day and then we can discuss again. ------------------------------ A bug in a Microsoft Product? No! It's not a bug it's an undocumented feature!
You lied again because just a moment ago you said "I don't want to discuss with you any longer". And yet you continue. I have a good mind to sue you.
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No free speech is the right to say what you want with very few limitations "Fire in a crowded theater" for safety. If what I say offends you walk away and listen to what does not offend you. You really need to look at what the founding fathers had in mind when writing the constitution. A good place to start is the federalist papers. You do not have the right to not be offended. Heck I hear things that offend me every day but I don't go around and whine about it. You have the right to say what you want and so do I. What you are thinking of is more like a college "speech code". http://hnn.us/articles/11276.html
Well I agree, just one point I see little bit different:
L_u_r_k_e_r wrote:
You do not have the right to not be offended.
When someone tells a lie about you that affects other rights. ------------------------------ A bug in a Microsoft Product? No! It's not a bug it's an undocumented feature!
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Well I agree, just one point I see little bit different:
L_u_r_k_e_r wrote:
You do not have the right to not be offended.
When someone tells a lie about you that affects other rights. ------------------------------ A bug in a Microsoft Product? No! It's not a bug it's an undocumented feature!
And you have legal remedies if the comments (lies) are slanderous or libelous. Of course there are acceptions as to when those remedies do not apply. Ahh the wonderful legal system of rules and acceptions.
