Oh, uh
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Michal Martinka wrote:
Flat tax is(usually) very simple, whole tax code is just about few A4 pages with no deductions, loopholes etc.
And where would all the tax accountant and tax inspectors go. They wouldn't be needed any more. This would save the economy billions by not having to pay money to these people, however the unemployment rate would rocket. (Actually, I'd imagine that these people would be intelligent enough to figure out how to gain new employment fairly quickly) ColinMackay.net Scottish Developers are looking for speakers for user group sessions over the next few months. Do you want to know more?
Colin Angus Mackay wrote:
And where would all the tax accountant and tax inspectors go.
I hear there is always room for more patent lawyers ;) Rocky <>< Latest Post: SQL2005 Server Managemnet Studio timeouts! Blog: www.RockyMoore.com/TheCoder/[^]
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Browsing the internet I found Why America needs a flat tax[^] The most interesting part is: "Another complaint: Taxes are too darn complex, especially the US federal income tax code. Consider this, for starters: Abraham Lincoln's Gettysburg Address, which defined the character of the nation, is all of 268 words. The Declaration of Independence runs about 1,300 words. The Constitution, which has served America for more than 2 centuries, comes to some 5,000 words. The Holy Bible has 773,000 words. The US federal income tax code and all of its attendant rules and regulations: 9 million words and rising." 9 milion words? I wonder how americans fill tax form, how long does it take to you? Would you like to have flat tax? If yes, what should be the rate? 20%? 15%? 10%? Note: Flat tax is(usually) very simple, whole tax code is just about few A4 pages with no deductions, loopholes etc. Sample Flat tax forms[^] I consider this to be a economy issue so please don't flame about political parties. -- modified at 5:55 Saturday 18th February, 2006
It's not just the US that needs a flat-tax. Gordon Brown is busily making the Tax System in the UK more and more opaque, with byzantine and labyrinthe rules. The irony is that as he does this more and more large corporations are rich individuals are paying less tax because of the loops in the hastily drafted legislation. :(
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I think someone was being a little facicious by voting for 110% ColinMackay.net Scottish Developers are looking for speakers for user group sessions over the next few months. Do you want to know more?
Not being American I didn't bother to vote. But I though a flat tax of 110% seems fair to me. All my euro-communist education contrive to that :laugh:
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Browsing the internet I found Why America needs a flat tax[^] The most interesting part is: "Another complaint: Taxes are too darn complex, especially the US federal income tax code. Consider this, for starters: Abraham Lincoln's Gettysburg Address, which defined the character of the nation, is all of 268 words. The Declaration of Independence runs about 1,300 words. The Constitution, which has served America for more than 2 centuries, comes to some 5,000 words. The Holy Bible has 773,000 words. The US federal income tax code and all of its attendant rules and regulations: 9 million words and rising." 9 milion words? I wonder how americans fill tax form, how long does it take to you? Would you like to have flat tax? If yes, what should be the rate? 20%? 15%? 10%? Note: Flat tax is(usually) very simple, whole tax code is just about few A4 pages with no deductions, loopholes etc. Sample Flat tax forms[^] I consider this to be a economy issue so please don't flame about political parties. -- modified at 5:55 Saturday 18th February, 2006
It'll never happen. A whole army of IRS workers and droves of tax accountants would be put out of business, not to mention the lawyers, secretaries, supporting agencies, companies like Intuit, programmers, etc. It would devastate the economy!!! ;P Marc Pensieve
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Colin Angus Mackay wrote:
And where would all the tax accountant and tax inspectors go.
I hear there is always room for more patent lawyers ;) Rocky <>< Latest Post: SQL2005 Server Managemnet Studio timeouts! Blog: www.RockyMoore.com/TheCoder/[^]
In the swamp? The tigress is here :-D
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Browsing the internet I found Why America needs a flat tax[^] The most interesting part is: "Another complaint: Taxes are too darn complex, especially the US federal income tax code. Consider this, for starters: Abraham Lincoln's Gettysburg Address, which defined the character of the nation, is all of 268 words. The Declaration of Independence runs about 1,300 words. The Constitution, which has served America for more than 2 centuries, comes to some 5,000 words. The Holy Bible has 773,000 words. The US federal income tax code and all of its attendant rules and regulations: 9 million words and rising." 9 milion words? I wonder how americans fill tax form, how long does it take to you? Would you like to have flat tax? If yes, what should be the rate? 20%? 15%? 10%? Note: Flat tax is(usually) very simple, whole tax code is just about few A4 pages with no deductions, loopholes etc. Sample Flat tax forms[^] I consider this to be a economy issue so please don't flame about political parties. -- modified at 5:55 Saturday 18th February, 2006
Michal Martinka wrote:
how long does it take to you?
Time to drive to Best Buy and back: 10 minutes Time to find TurboTax on the shelf: 1 minute (it's on a dedicated shelf right at the entrance) Time to punch numbers into the program: 20 minutes So about half an hour on average. --Mike-- Visual C++ MVP :cool: LINKS~! Ericahist | NEW!! PimpFish | CP SearchBar v3.0 | C++ Forum FAQ
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It'll never happen. A whole army of IRS workers and droves of tax accountants would be put out of business, not to mention the lawyers, secretaries, supporting agencies, companies like Intuit, programmers, etc. It would devastate the economy!!! ;P Marc Pensieve
Marc, You're being sarcastic, right? I think so. People have gone out and interviewed accountants regarding taxes. As a general rule, accountants thing having to do taxes for their customers is the single biggest waste of time. They could be working on real financial matters that are truly important - I've not heard one accountant fret about losing his/her job. I'm sure some would, but things change, get over it. Now, the IRS workers might have a beef, but we have openings in the TSA and homeland security ;). The real rub comes with CONGRESS. This is the way things are controlled in this country with all of the lobbyists. This is the location the war will occur. The less $$ CONGRESS Controls, the more freedom a person, country has. For waht it matters, it usually takes me about 8 hours to do my taxes, mostly pulling all of the records together, punching in the numbers and then, breathing a sigh of relief when I see I've withheld enough.
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Browsing the internet I found Why America needs a flat tax[^] The most interesting part is: "Another complaint: Taxes are too darn complex, especially the US federal income tax code. Consider this, for starters: Abraham Lincoln's Gettysburg Address, which defined the character of the nation, is all of 268 words. The Declaration of Independence runs about 1,300 words. The Constitution, which has served America for more than 2 centuries, comes to some 5,000 words. The Holy Bible has 773,000 words. The US federal income tax code and all of its attendant rules and regulations: 9 million words and rising." 9 milion words? I wonder how americans fill tax form, how long does it take to you? Would you like to have flat tax? If yes, what should be the rate? 20%? 15%? 10%? Note: Flat tax is(usually) very simple, whole tax code is just about few A4 pages with no deductions, loopholes etc. Sample Flat tax forms[^] I consider this to be a economy issue so please don't flame about political parties. -- modified at 5:55 Saturday 18th February, 2006
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I to agree with your view. I helped a doctorate candidate during my BA (1988) with some research on his thesis regarding Flat tax compared to consumption taxes. The Fair tax is a consumption tax which poses much less burden on lower and middle income levels while providing positive incentives toward the economy. The main difference between the proposed fair tax and his study was that businesses continued to use an Income/Franchise tax while individuals were taxed on their consumption. The main reason to get rid of the income tax in his study was the inequity in the inflationary adjustments between geographic regions. If you notice the talk about the AMT being adjusted in Congress this is an example of non inflation adjusted taxes hurting middle class taxpayers in states with higher inflation indexes. Almost every state in the union uses consumption taxes to raise tax revenue so this should not be difficult to implement or understand. It confuses me as to why we are still clinging to a truly archaic taxation methodology that even patched up will never work correctly.
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So Fair Tax is basically VAT or sales tax. Yes, it is fair, no doubt about it, but there is one problem: Q: Should the income tax simply be abolished and replaced by a sales tax? A: As noted, the sales tax and flat tax are different sides of the same coin. Some have suggested that the better approach would be to replace the income tax with a national tax on consumption. However, while attractive in theory, the danger is that Americans could end up not with a sales tax in place of the income tax, but with a sales tax and an income tax. A sales tax should be considered only after the 16th Amendment, which allowed the income tax, is repealed. Otherwise, such an effort could play into the hands of those who want to impose a national sales tax or value-added tax (VAT) so that politicians get more money to spend. Please see A brief guide to flat tax[^]. "Government is not the solution to our problem. Government is the problem." -Ronald Reagan
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In the swamp? The tigress is here :-D
:) Rocky <>< Latest Post: SQL2005 Server Managemnet Studio timeouts! Blog: www.RockyMoore.com/TheCoder/[^]
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So Fair Tax is basically VAT or sales tax. Yes, it is fair, no doubt about it, but there is one problem: Q: Should the income tax simply be abolished and replaced by a sales tax? A: As noted, the sales tax and flat tax are different sides of the same coin. Some have suggested that the better approach would be to replace the income tax with a national tax on consumption. However, while attractive in theory, the danger is that Americans could end up not with a sales tax in place of the income tax, but with a sales tax and an income tax. A sales tax should be considered only after the 16th Amendment, which allowed the income tax, is repealed. Otherwise, such an effort could play into the hands of those who want to impose a national sales tax or value-added tax (VAT) so that politicians get more money to spend. Please see A brief guide to flat tax[^]. "Government is not the solution to our problem. Government is the problem." -Ronald Reagan
Michal Martinka wrote:
A sales tax should be considered only after the 16th Amendment, which allowed the income tax, is repealed.
This is very true! Here in Oregon, USA we do not have ANY sales tax (on of the few States that do not). A national sales tax opens the door to something we have fought hard to keep out. We have seen the writing on the wall for our State though, as other taxes have pushed up, more people are screaming for a consumption tax. It should be one or the other but never both. While a consumption tax hits retailers the hardest, it would be the best way to go as it would eliminate most of the quarterly headaches along with the need for audits and all the legal problems, not to mention making it harder for people to skip out of paying. I have known retail businesses that just pocket a good portion of their cash sales to avoid paying taxes on them. Then there are businesses that inflate their deductions to get more tax breaks. A consumption tax would be much easier for most people. The only issue I wonder about is the people on the low end that have to prove their income to get tax relief, this could prove as burdensome as income taxes. The only way benefit will be seen by this method is if all the States would move to the same method. The tax I am the most against is the "personal property" tax assessed against businesses. This great tax makes you pay for all the assets a business has forever. The next tax that needs to go in the dumpster is "property tax". While some might think this a fair tax to provide funds for community needs, it is unfairly assessed against people who happen to struggle enough to own something while all those that do not own any property, do not have to pay any of these community needs. I know that taxes better get simplified real fast. There is a lot of pressure to adopt a internet sales tax and it would be horrible with all the different tax structures here in the USA. It is best to simply before we go down that road! While "tax" appears as a three letter word, I just know it has to be four letters some how ;) Rocky <>< Latest Post: SQL2005 Server Managemnet Studio timeouts! Blog: www.RockyMoore.com/TheCoder/[^]
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Michal Martinka wrote:
A sales tax should be considered only after the 16th Amendment, which allowed the income tax, is repealed.
This is very true! Here in Oregon, USA we do not have ANY sales tax (on of the few States that do not). A national sales tax opens the door to something we have fought hard to keep out. We have seen the writing on the wall for our State though, as other taxes have pushed up, more people are screaming for a consumption tax. It should be one or the other but never both. While a consumption tax hits retailers the hardest, it would be the best way to go as it would eliminate most of the quarterly headaches along with the need for audits and all the legal problems, not to mention making it harder for people to skip out of paying. I have known retail businesses that just pocket a good portion of their cash sales to avoid paying taxes on them. Then there are businesses that inflate their deductions to get more tax breaks. A consumption tax would be much easier for most people. The only issue I wonder about is the people on the low end that have to prove their income to get tax relief, this could prove as burdensome as income taxes. The only way benefit will be seen by this method is if all the States would move to the same method. The tax I am the most against is the "personal property" tax assessed against businesses. This great tax makes you pay for all the assets a business has forever. The next tax that needs to go in the dumpster is "property tax". While some might think this a fair tax to provide funds for community needs, it is unfairly assessed against people who happen to struggle enough to own something while all those that do not own any property, do not have to pay any of these community needs. I know that taxes better get simplified real fast. There is a lot of pressure to adopt a internet sales tax and it would be horrible with all the different tax structures here in the USA. It is best to simply before we go down that road! While "tax" appears as a three letter word, I just know it has to be four letters some how ;) Rocky <>< Latest Post: SQL2005 Server Managemnet Studio timeouts! Blog: www.RockyMoore.com/TheCoder/[^]
Rocky Moore wrote:
The tax I am the most against is the "personal property" tax assessed against businesses. This great tax makes you pay for all the assets a business has forever. The next tax that needs to go in the dumpster is "property tax".
This was one of the most annoying forms I had to fill out when I owned my own business. It was an amazing headache and I was a one man operation--I can't imagine the internal costs to large companies. It really does provide a negative incentive to upgrade your equipment. Plus, as you said, it's just plain unfair--I worked hard to buy the materials I did, why should they collect a fee on them? BTW, I'm opposed to the VAT tax unless the constitution is changed making income tax illegal. Ultimately, I'd just rather have a simplified tax with much fewer deductions--if you can't do your taxes on a 3x5 card, its too complicated. Anyone who thinks he has a better idea of what's good for people than people do is a swine. - P.J. O'Rourke
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Rocky Moore wrote:
The tax I am the most against is the "personal property" tax assessed against businesses. This great tax makes you pay for all the assets a business has forever. The next tax that needs to go in the dumpster is "property tax".
This was one of the most annoying forms I had to fill out when I owned my own business. It was an amazing headache and I was a one man operation--I can't imagine the internal costs to large companies. It really does provide a negative incentive to upgrade your equipment. Plus, as you said, it's just plain unfair--I worked hard to buy the materials I did, why should they collect a fee on them? BTW, I'm opposed to the VAT tax unless the constitution is changed making income tax illegal. Ultimately, I'd just rather have a simplified tax with much fewer deductions--if you can't do your taxes on a 3x5 card, its too complicated. Anyone who thinks he has a better idea of what's good for people than people do is a swine. - P.J. O'Rourke
Joe Woodbury wrote:
if you can't do your taxes on a 3x5 card, its too complicated
There you go! :laugh: Rocky <>< Latest Post: SQL2005 Server Managemnet Studio timeouts! Blog: www.RockyMoore.com/TheCoder/[^]