Dundas vs Code Jock
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Does anyone have any experience with either the Dundas Ultimate Toolbox or the Code Jock Xtreme Toolkit? Could anyone recommend one over the other, or perhaps suggest an alternative? In particular, I'm looking to get a list box control that can take say 250k+ items and do it at lightning speed! Dylan Kenneally London,UK
Dylan, You may actually want consider our Ultimate Grid product if your primary goal is high performance list box behavior, this challenge is one that often moves developers to purchase the product, and then it finds its way into other parts of their development. UG has a ton of features for dealing with tremendously large datasets efficiently, and a great deal of thought has gone into developing the behavior that's exposed to the user. It is one thing to make it work, it another to make it work nicely. David http://www.dundas.com
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Does anyone have any experience with either the Dundas Ultimate Toolbox or the Code Jock Xtreme Toolkit? Could anyone recommend one over the other, or perhaps suggest an alternative? In particular, I'm looking to get a list box control that can take say 250k+ items and do it at lightning speed! Dylan Kenneally London,UK
Why would you want to load 250k items into one listbox? Jason Gerard
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Why would you want to load 250k items into one listbox? Jason Gerard
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But would they know if you reduced it to 249k ? :-D Michael :-)
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But would they know if you reduced it to 249k ? :-D Michael :-)
Can you imagine the lawsuit if one of the customers finds that out? 1000 items lost - good lawyer will turn it into millions of bucks :) Tomasz Sowinski -- http://www.shooltz.com
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The product is bad. This is, of course, *very* personal opinion. Tomasz Sowinski -- http://www.shooltz.com
Tomasz Sowinski wrote: The product is bad. This is, of course, *very* personal opinion. I, and the current crop of developer's I'm working with, also share this opinion about Stingray's products. So you're not alone.
Visual Studio Favorites - improve your development! GUIgui - skin your apps without XP
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The product is bad. This is, of course, *very* personal opinion. Tomasz Sowinski -- http://www.shooltz.com
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Dylan Kenneally wrote: Plus, if I can get the man who signs the cheques to do so for a whole set of controls I'll be a very pleased (wouldn't we all, hmmm new toys....). OK - this explains everything :) Just stay away from Stingray's Objective Toolkit. It just sucks :) Tomasz Sowinski -- http://www.shooltz.com
> Just stay away from Stingray's Objective Toolkit. It just sucks FWIW, I second that. I am in the unfortunate position of having to use their Grid control, and let me tell you, IMHO, it was not well designed: it abuses dynamically allocated memory, it uses CStrings like they were free(!), and it is naive enough to, when in a Unicode build, works *only* with Unicode text (no internal conversion, like what should happen when you try to do a Clipboard Paste with ANSI text). -And God help you if you try to rewrite it's memory allocation routines to speed things up: the Formula Engine is tightly bound to how it allocates memory. So you can speed it up (a lot!!!), but you lose functionality in doing so. Just my thoughts... Peace! -=- James.
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> Just stay away from Stingray's Objective Toolkit. It just sucks FWIW, I second that. I am in the unfortunate position of having to use their Grid control, and let me tell you, IMHO, it was not well designed: it abuses dynamically allocated memory, it uses CStrings like they were free(!), and it is naive enough to, when in a Unicode build, works *only* with Unicode text (no internal conversion, like what should happen when you try to do a Clipboard Paste with ANSI text). -And God help you if you try to rewrite it's memory allocation routines to speed things up: the Formula Engine is tightly bound to how it allocates memory. So you can speed it up (a lot!!!), but you lose functionality in doing so. Just my thoughts... Peace! -=- James.
Objective Grid sucks (I'm using it right now), but Objective Toolkit sucks 2^n! more. That's all I can say. Tomasz Sowinski -- http://www.shooltz.com
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Does anyone have any experience with either the Dundas Ultimate Toolbox or the Code Jock Xtreme Toolkit? Could anyone recommend one over the other, or perhaps suggest an alternative? In particular, I'm looking to get a list box control that can take say 250k+ items and do it at lightning speed! Dylan Kenneally London,UK
Hello Dylan, You're not going to find a lightning fast list control from any of these guys. What you want is to create a virtual listbox where the data is stored and managed outside of the list control. It is very easy to do and worth the effort. Basically all you have to do is handle a few listctrl functions such as: OnGetDispInfoList(NMHDR* pNMHDR, LRESULT* pResult) OnLVFindItem(NMHDR* pNMHDR, LRESULT* pResult) OnLVCacheHint(NMHDR* pNMHDR, LRESULT* pResult) There is also a fairly good article explaining how to do this in the December 2000 issue of DDJ with sample source code that can be downloaded at: http://www.ddj.com/ftp/2000/2000\_12/vlist.zip As far as GUI libs, Stingray is no longer worth the cash and is obsolete IMHO. Dundas is OK and not that robust or efficient, buggy, and don't bother trying to get tech support. Also don't get burned by buying it while it's cheap, because it usually means the product is being dropped(HyperView for example) or replaced with a new version soon and won't be supported. You will need to buy the subscription or fork out more money when their XP look-and-feel version of UT comes out this year. I know Dundas is probably listening, so take the feedback as constructive criticism.:) I have not used CodeJock or BCG, but they do look interesting and it would be nice to hear from others what their opinions are on those products. Kind regards, Tim
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Hello Dylan, You're not going to find a lightning fast list control from any of these guys. What you want is to create a virtual listbox where the data is stored and managed outside of the list control. It is very easy to do and worth the effort. Basically all you have to do is handle a few listctrl functions such as: OnGetDispInfoList(NMHDR* pNMHDR, LRESULT* pResult) OnLVFindItem(NMHDR* pNMHDR, LRESULT* pResult) OnLVCacheHint(NMHDR* pNMHDR, LRESULT* pResult) There is also a fairly good article explaining how to do this in the December 2000 issue of DDJ with sample source code that can be downloaded at: http://www.ddj.com/ftp/2000/2000\_12/vlist.zip As far as GUI libs, Stingray is no longer worth the cash and is obsolete IMHO. Dundas is OK and not that robust or efficient, buggy, and don't bother trying to get tech support. Also don't get burned by buying it while it's cheap, because it usually means the product is being dropped(HyperView for example) or replaced with a new version soon and won't be supported. You will need to buy the subscription or fork out more money when their XP look-and-feel version of UT comes out this year. I know Dundas is probably listening, so take the feedback as constructive criticism.:) I have not used CodeJock or BCG, but they do look interesting and it would be nice to hear from others what their opinions are on those products. Kind regards, Tim
Tim, Thanks for your feedback ... we do take client feedback seriously. Just to let you know... A new version of Ultimate Toolbox was just released that is way more robust and stable. Our team has been working quite hard on each and every class (all 314 of them) to ensure that they are working correctly (with VC++ 5,6, and 7 ... and Win 98, ME, 2000, and XP). Also, if you do purchase the Ultimate Toolbox now, you will receive the XP look-and-feel update for free once it does come out! As for support... As of Jan, we have greatly increased the size of our technical support team (our average hold time for phone support is less than 2 minutes, and our average turn around time for email support is less than 4 hours (during business hours)). If you do not (or have not) receive this level of support please contact me directly. It is true that we have had large sales on products that are going to be discontinued, but we do not try and hide this fact from any potential customer. It is mandatory for our sales staff to inform all customers about the status of such products. Our goal at Dundas is to provide products that developers "want to use", so the only way for us to reach this goal is to get good feedback from people like you, and create top notch products.
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Tim, Thanks for your feedback ... we do take client feedback seriously. Just to let you know... A new version of Ultimate Toolbox was just released that is way more robust and stable. Our team has been working quite hard on each and every class (all 314 of them) to ensure that they are working correctly (with VC++ 5,6, and 7 ... and Win 98, ME, 2000, and XP). Also, if you do purchase the Ultimate Toolbox now, you will receive the XP look-and-feel update for free once it does come out! As for support... As of Jan, we have greatly increased the size of our technical support team (our average hold time for phone support is less than 2 minutes, and our average turn around time for email support is less than 4 hours (during business hours)). If you do not (or have not) receive this level of support please contact me directly. It is true that we have had large sales on products that are going to be discontinued, but we do not try and hide this fact from any potential customer. It is mandatory for our sales staff to inform all customers about the status of such products. Our goal at Dundas is to provide products that developers "want to use", so the only way for us to reach this goal is to get good feedback from people like you, and create top notch products.
FWIW, back in 2000 I purchased Ultimate TCP/IP but ran into a problem with my credit card; even though I was never contacted about the problem, once I called I don't think I waited very long before I got through to Jake Tai. After a couple of phone calls and an e-mail everything was all set :) I never had any problems with anything I tried to do with it, which was mainly a few server components to notify the staff when servers went down or worse when our T1 went down. James Sonork ID: 100.11138 - Hasaki "Smile your little smile, take some tea with me awhile. And every day we'll turn another page. Behind our glass we'll sit and look at our ever-open book, One brown mouse sitting in a cage." "One Brown Mouse" from Heavy Horses, Jethro Tull 1978
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Does anyone have any experience with either the Dundas Ultimate Toolbox or the Code Jock Xtreme Toolkit? Could anyone recommend one over the other, or perhaps suggest an alternative? In particular, I'm looking to get a list box control that can take say 250k+ items and do it at lightning speed! Dylan Kenneally London,UK
I am currently using CodeJock's toolkit, and it has been excellent. Their 1.9.0 release was extremely buggy, but the 1.9.1 beta seems to clear up most of it. The tech support has been very responsive, always getting back to me within the same day. I am very impressed with the product, and will probably renew my support contract once it is up. Jim
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I think a more descriptive phrase would be "sucks big hairy donkey shlongs". "...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001
I've gotta admire the subtlety here... :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
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The product is bad. This is, of course, *very* personal opinion. Tomasz Sowinski -- http://www.shooltz.com
hey tomasz anybody who doesn't take even your 'personal' opinions seriously when it comes to tech stuff should go learn more ;) --- "every year we invent better idiot proof systems and every year they invent better idiots ... and the linux zealots still aren't being sterilized"
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Dylan, You may actually want consider our Ultimate Grid product if your primary goal is high performance list box behavior, this challenge is one that often moves developers to purchase the product, and then it finds its way into other parts of their development. UG has a ton of features for dealing with tremendously large datasets efficiently, and a great deal of thought has gone into developing the behavior that's exposed to the user. It is one thing to make it work, it another to make it work nicely. David http://www.dundas.com
i second that i've used the ug97 product in our financial market app for 3 years now and have very few complaints ... outside of tech support that is the ug is a good grid control --- "every year we invent better idiot proof systems and every year they invent better idiots ... and the linux zealots still aren't being sterilized"
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hey tomasz anybody who doesn't take even your 'personal' opinions seriously when it comes to tech stuff should go learn more ;) --- "every year we invent better idiot proof systems and every year they invent better idiots ... and the linux zealots still aren't being sterilized"
Lauren, You're overestimating me ;) Regards, Tomasz Sowinski -- http://www.shooltz.com
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i second that i've used the ug97 product in our financial market app for 3 years now and have very few complaints ... outside of tech support that is the ug is a good grid control --- "every year we invent better idiot proof systems and every year they invent better idiots ... and the linux zealots still aren't being sterilized"
Lauren, Thanks for the vote of confidence! BTW, we heard your comments, along with those of our other customers. Comments about having inconsistent experiences with our technical support team, and the slowing pace of evolution in our product line. In '98 and '99 our product line grew to include more than 24 separately branded products, and the scope of it simply overwhelmed us. We made a decision to trim many of our less popular products, to redouble our efforts on the core products that our customers consistently demanded, and to reorganize the company into more defined groups focusing on key strategic areas. The results have been outstanding. Each of our core products (Ultimate Grid, Ultimate Toolbox, Dundas TCP/IP and Dundas Chart) has received a string of updates, fixes and new planned versions, a soup to nuts update of documentation and help, tight integration with Visual Studio through the Visual Studio Integration Program (VSIP), etc. David http://www.dundas.com
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Hello Dylan, You're not going to find a lightning fast list control from any of these guys. What you want is to create a virtual listbox where the data is stored and managed outside of the list control. It is very easy to do and worth the effort. Basically all you have to do is handle a few listctrl functions such as: OnGetDispInfoList(NMHDR* pNMHDR, LRESULT* pResult) OnLVFindItem(NMHDR* pNMHDR, LRESULT* pResult) OnLVCacheHint(NMHDR* pNMHDR, LRESULT* pResult) There is also a fairly good article explaining how to do this in the December 2000 issue of DDJ with sample source code that can be downloaded at: http://www.ddj.com/ftp/2000/2000\_12/vlist.zip As far as GUI libs, Stingray is no longer worth the cash and is obsolete IMHO. Dundas is OK and not that robust or efficient, buggy, and don't bother trying to get tech support. Also don't get burned by buying it while it's cheap, because it usually means the product is being dropped(HyperView for example) or replaced with a new version soon and won't be supported. You will need to buy the subscription or fork out more money when their XP look-and-feel version of UT comes out this year. I know Dundas is probably listening, so take the feedback as constructive criticism.:) I have not used CodeJock or BCG, but they do look interesting and it would be nice to hear from others what their opinions are on those products. Kind regards, Tim
Tim Ranker wrote: What you want is to create a virtual listbox where the data is stored and managed outside of the list control. I agree completly, Having a true list type box with 250k items is unmaageable. Regardz Colin J Davies
Sonork ID 100.9197:Colin Logic merely enables one to be wrong with authority. -- Doctor Who :jig: :jig: :jig:
:jig: :jig: :jig: