New Windows APIs
-
Pursuant to all the talk today about native code, I thought I'd mention that we have a spreadsheet that lists all the new Windows API functions that will be released with Windows Vista. This spreadsheet is in the same download[^] that contains the Help file (.CHM) of the Windows Vista Developer Story[^]. Tom Archer (blog) Program Manager MSDN Online (Windows Vista and Visual C++) MICROSOFT
Thank you very much for sharing this information. :rose: But now i am very confused. In all the discussions here at CP and many other resourses, it is said that Win32 is now in legacy mode and any new API being added in Vista will be managed. But in the list you've provided, there are tons of new "C" style functions being added into the WIN32 dlls. Now, why people are saying that Win32 is in legacy mode ? Imtiaz
-
Pursuant to all the talk today about native code, I thought I'd mention that we have a spreadsheet that lists all the new Windows API functions that will be released with Windows Vista. This spreadsheet is in the same download[^] that contains the Help file (.CHM) of the Windows Vista Developer Story[^]. Tom Archer (blog) Program Manager MSDN Online (Windows Vista and Visual C++) MICROSOFT
Tom Archer - MSFT wrote:
Pursuant to all the talk today about native code, I thought I'd mention that we have a spreadsheet that lists all the new Windows API functions that will be released with Windows Vista. This spreadsheet is in the same download[^] that contains the Help file (.CHM) of the Windows Vista Developer Story[^].
yeah sure it's about the native code discussion... you're just trying to make me guilty about trying to add the OpenGL back in after the announcement that Windows was trying to drop it except through 3rd party ICD. ;) ;) Sorry to add more work on you folks. :) kinda ;) I gave you a 5, thanks for the info. :) _________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb) -- modified at 4:08 Sunday 26th March, 2006
-
Thank you very much for sharing this information. :rose: But now i am very confused. In all the discussions here at CP and many other resourses, it is said that Win32 is now in legacy mode and any new API being added in Vista will be managed. But in the list you've provided, there are tons of new "C" style functions being added into the WIN32 dlls. Now, why people are saying that Win32 is in legacy mode ? Imtiaz
You now call them through the
IWin32APIinterface ;)
Some of us walk the memory lane, others plummet into a rabbit hole
Tree in C# || Fold With Us! || sighist -
Tom Archer - MSFT wrote:
As a large company, we have to look after millions of customers and many of them - especially large corporations - demand that we create a digitally signed file as the delivery mechanism for our files.
So why not just sign the CHM?
Tom Archer - MSFT wrote:
I think it's a pretty low price to pay.
It's not having to click on the dialog that concerns me. Security is about risk-mitigation, reducing the attack surface. I don't care if it was downloaded from secure.microsoft.com, has been digitally signed and blessed by the Pope; having to run an EXE simply to be able to look at a CHM is just plain un-necessary. [edit] Revisiting my point about Joe Average, how can we be expected to be able to educate non-technical users about the dangers of running EXE's if Microsoft themselves are distributing documents as EXE's? It just makes the job that much harder. You can just imagine a tech support guy trying to explain to his users the dangers of launching email attachments: "Don't do it! Running EXE's is really dangerous and will totally hose your machine. Here's Microsoft's recommended best practices document but, um, it's an EXE so you're going to have to launch it." :rolleyes: [/edit]
0 bottles of beer on the wall, 0 bottles of beer, you take 1 down, pass it around, 4294967295 bottles of beer on the wall. Awasu 2.2 [^]: A free RSS/Atom feed reader with support for Code Project.
Tom is right at least in a way. For security through file types you need to trust the code that runs them. By design, a CHM file can contain anything and has an attack surface the size of a 747. Technically, a signed EXE is safer. However, I agree with you that these issues are to complex for most users.
Some of us walk the memory lane, others plummet into a rabbit hole
Tree in C# || Fold With Us! || sighist -
Pursuant to all the talk today about native code, I thought I'd mention that we have a spreadsheet that lists all the new Windows API functions that will be released with Windows Vista. This spreadsheet is in the same download[^] that contains the Help file (.CHM) of the Windows Vista Developer Story[^]. Tom Archer (blog) Program Manager MSDN Online (Windows Vista and Visual C++) MICROSOFT
-
Tom is right at least in a way. For security through file types you need to trust the code that runs them. By design, a CHM file can contain anything and has an attack surface the size of a 747. Technically, a signed EXE is safer. However, I agree with you that these issues are to complex for most users.
Some of us walk the memory lane, others plummet into a rabbit hole
Tree in C# || Fold With Us! || sighistpeterchen wrote:
a CHM file can contain anything and has an attack surface the size of a 747
Yes, but in this instance, it's not a valid argument. You're going to look at the CHM anyway and whatever threat it may pose is going to be there anyway. My point was that distributing a CHM as an EXE introduced an extra, *un-necessary* step where something could go wrong.
0 bottles of beer on the wall, 0 bottles of beer, you take 1 down, pass it around, 4294967295 bottles of beer on the wall. Awasu 2.2 [^]: A free RSS/Atom feed reader with support for Code Project.
-
peterchen wrote:
a CHM file can contain anything and has an attack surface the size of a 747
Yes, but in this instance, it's not a valid argument. You're going to look at the CHM anyway and whatever threat it may pose is going to be there anyway. My point was that distributing a CHM as an EXE introduced an extra, *un-necessary* step where something could go wrong.
0 bottles of beer on the wall, 0 bottles of beer, you take 1 down, pass it around, 4294967295 bottles of beer on the wall. Awasu 2.2 [^]: A free RSS/Atom feed reader with support for Code Project.
As I understand it, the EXE can be signed, the CHM can't, and MS considers signing the superior technology.
Some of us walk the memory lane, others plummet into a rabbit hole
Tree in C# || Fold With Us! || sighist -
Thank you very much for sharing this information. :rose: But now i am very confused. In all the discussions here at CP and many other resourses, it is said that Win32 is now in legacy mode and any new API being added in Vista will be managed. But in the list you've provided, there are tons of new "C" style functions being added into the WIN32 dlls. Now, why people are saying that Win32 is in legacy mode ? Imtiaz
Imtiaz Murtaza wrote:
Now, why people are saying that Win32 is in legacy mode ?
Probably marketing IMO. They day MS starts writing core OS compenents in managed code to slow the OS down even more (let's face it, Windows isn't the fastest OS out there) is the day more and more people start realizing it's too slow for practical use. Jeremy Falcon
-
Nice!!! :omg: 7125. I really need to make the time to get that beta installed. As much as I'm looking forward to Vista I might as well download it and give it a run...:cool:
Overheard in clients: Question: "So country music doesn't make you want to get down and boogie?" Response: "No, it makes me want to clean off the bottom of my shoe." I just have to say that's about one of the best statements regarding country music I've ever heard. :cool:
code-frog wrote:
7125. I really need to make the time to get that beta installed. As much as I'm looking forward to Vista I might as well download it and give it a run...
Actually, a lot of those entries are definitions for messages, structures, and interface functions. The number of new directly callable API functions seems to be far lower - though still impressive. I just wonder how many people will end up using these - good to have direct access to Direct 3D, but Avalon is a better organized and more convenient to use wrapper. But then it is awesome that we can still use native code to build full fledged applications :-) Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
The Ultimate Grid - The #1 MFC grid out there! -
Tom Archer - MSFT wrote:
As a large company, we have to look after millions of customers and many of them - especially large corporations - demand that we create a digitally signed file as the delivery mechanism for our files.
So why not just sign the CHM?
Tom Archer - MSFT wrote:
I think it's a pretty low price to pay.
It's not having to click on the dialog that concerns me. Security is about risk-mitigation, reducing the attack surface. I don't care if it was downloaded from secure.microsoft.com, has been digitally signed and blessed by the Pope; having to run an EXE simply to be able to look at a CHM is just plain un-necessary. [edit] Revisiting my point about Joe Average, how can we be expected to be able to educate non-technical users about the dangers of running EXE's if Microsoft themselves are distributing documents as EXE's? It just makes the job that much harder. You can just imagine a tech support guy trying to explain to his users the dangers of launching email attachments: "Don't do it! Running EXE's is really dangerous and will totally hose your machine. Here's Microsoft's recommended best practices document but, um, it's an EXE so you're going to have to launch it." :rolleyes: [/edit]
0 bottles of beer on the wall, 0 bottles of beer, you take 1 down, pass it around, 4294967295 bottles of beer on the wall. Awasu 2.2 [^]: A free RSS/Atom feed reader with support for Code Project.
Taka Muraoka wrote:
Revisiting my point about Joe Average
But the "file/exe" in question isn't for Joe Average, is it? Sorry, Taka, but from where I sit your whole line of reasoning is sophmoric at best. My Programming Library /* You are not expected to understand this */
-
Taka Muraoka wrote:
Revisiting my point about Joe Average
But the "file/exe" in question isn't for Joe Average, is it? Sorry, Taka, but from where I sit your whole line of reasoning is sophmoric at best. My Programming Library /* You are not expected to understand this */
Toasty0 wrote:
But the "file/exe" in question isn't for Joe Average, is it?
Not this particular one, no. But it seems that it is Microsoft policy to distribute *all* documents like this.
0 bottles of beer on the wall, 0 bottles of beer, you take 1 down, pass it around, 4294967295 bottles of beer on the wall. Awasu 2.2 [^]: A free RSS/Atom feed reader with support for Code Project.
-
code-frog wrote:
but so long as they keep the trend of them being self-executing zip files that are extractable it's a small thing to me.
I agree. Kinda of a shame that a thread about 7,000 new APIs to help us do our jobs as devs has been hijacked over an issue that the legal dept madates we do. I would think the focus would be on the coolness of the APIs and not having to click thorugh a few dialogs to get the information on them. :sigh: Oh well. Tom Archer (blog) Program Manager MSDN Online (Windows Vista and Visual C++) MICROSOFT
Tom Archer - MSFT wrote:
I would think the focus would be on the coolness of the APIs and not having to click thorugh a few dialogs to get the information on them. Oh well.
I totally agree. I haven't seen this much boo-hooing over something unimportant since Miss Tewillker's Tea Party discovered their china from China wasn't really china. My Programming Library /* You are not expected to understand this */
-
You know in your position you are going to catch the extreme of two reactions criticism or butt kissing. Some people will want to shine Tom Archer until the cows come home and some people (those who have known you for a while) will consider you their personal path into Microsoft. I personally think it's cool as hell that we have a CP member at Microsoft and in a position to really help keep us informed. It's not something I take for granted. You were at CP first and while you are at Microsoft now they won't be able to take the CP out of you.:cool: This place just affects people like that. Also remember (and I know you know all of this, gosh you've been doing this longer than I've been able to drive a car) you are mostly going to hear complaints. Like just about everything you never hear when you do something right but you always hear when you tick someone off. It's human nature. I'm just glad you drop us the information you do when you have the time to do it and that's not an effort to shine Tom Archer it's just a thank you for taking the time. I know many here appreciate it. Now I just need my new house to get finished so I can be reunited with my lab and I can load Vista and check this stuff out. I think it all is pretty cool. But after spending a year working on Linux and 6 months on a mac, Windows is *VERY* exciting by comparison. hehehehehehehehehe 7000 new API's is a bit mind blowing to me. I'm stoked to see Vista but I'm even more stoked to see the Vista that's been refined in about 1 or 2 years. Good stuff. I wish I could get back to Win32 but I kind of think the web is the future so I'm putting my money there. Man! I'm rambling now. I'm hitting the rack... Have a good night Tom and thanks for the information.:rose: - Rex
Overheard in clients: Question: "So country music doesn't make you want to get down and boogie?" Response: "No, it makes me want to clean off the bottom of my shoe." I just have to say that's about one of the best statements regarding country music I've ever heard. :cool:
[code-frog] ... and some people (those who have known you for a while) will consider you their personal path into Microsoft. [Tom] Absolutely and one of the main reasons I blog and answer questions abou Microsoft/MSDN here is specifically so that people realize that real people make the decisions that we do and that we try to have real reasons (even if they're not agreed with). My main issue was that I had wanted the thread to focus on the work the Windows SDK team had done in that it directly answers the concern people have over the misconception that Microsoft is "abandoning" native development. Instead the thread had vectored of into a completely unrelated topic. While I'm not going to convince anyone of why we have to have EULAs - ever try to defend your legal dept? :) - I don't mind trying to answer concerns. It just would have just been better to have that on a different thread and to have left this one for conversation on the main topic. [code-frog] You were at CP first and while you are at Microsoft now they won't be able to take the CP out of you. [Tom] It shows, eh? LOL. Not to stroke too many egos, but I probably mention codeProject in our meetings at least once a day :) (Hey, as far as I'm concerned, it's far and away the best dev site on the net and is easily the model to look at.) [code-frog] I'm just glad you drop us the information you do when you have the time to do it and that's not an effort to shine Tom Archer it's just a thank you for taking the time. I know many here appreciate it. [Tom] Thanks bro. And nothing wrong with "shining" anyone. Heck, I don't think I ever converse with Chris that I don't tell him how great CodeProject is :) Positive feedback is a good thing. [code-frog] Now I just need my new house to get finished so I can be reunited with my lab and I can load Vista and check this stuff out. [Tom] Yep. I've been following those threads :) We had to sell our house to move out here and with the unreal cost of living we might follow your lead and have a house built. [code-frog] 7000 new API's is a bit mind blowing to me. [Tom] When I met the Windows SDK team back in August, that blew mind as well. I didn't realize there were 7,000 APIs to begin with much less 7,000 new ones! Tom Archer (blog) Program Manager MSDN Online (Windows Vista and Visual C++) MICROSOFT
-
Toasty0 wrote:
But the "file/exe" in question isn't for Joe Average, is it?
Not this particular one, no. But it seems that it is Microsoft policy to distribute *all* documents like this.
0 bottles of beer on the wall, 0 bottles of beer, you take 1 down, pass it around, 4294967295 bottles of beer on the wall. Awasu 2.2 [^]: A free RSS/Atom feed reader with support for Code Project.
Remember though, when you're talking about a legal dept, that's pretty much their definition - picky. Anyway, there's a chance for liability, the company is going to err on the side of caution. Therefore, instead of telling employees that some files shoudl ship with EULAs and some shouldn't - and thereby opening a bunch of subjective decision making - legal simply says "do it this way for everything." Tom Archer (blog) Program Manager MSDN Online (Windows Vista and Visual C++) MICROSOFT
-
Tom Archer - MSFT wrote:
I would think the focus would be on the coolness of the APIs and not having to click thorugh a few dialogs to get the information on them. Oh well.
I totally agree. I haven't seen this much boo-hooing over something unimportant since Miss Tewillker's Tea Party discovered their china from China wasn't really china. My Programming Library /* You are not expected to understand this */
LOL!! Tom Archer (blog) Program Manager MSDN Online (Windows Vista and Visual C++) MICROSOFT
-
Thank you very much for sharing this information. :rose: But now i am very confused. In all the discussions here at CP and many other resourses, it is said that Win32 is now in legacy mode and any new API being added in Vista will be managed. But in the list you've provided, there are tons of new "C" style functions being added into the WIN32 dlls. Now, why people are saying that Win32 is in legacy mode ? Imtiaz
Because relative to native code development there's much more in the way of managed code. In addition, like any company our marketing teams are going to focus on the latest, shiniest thing. That's not Win32. It's all the WinFX stuff. Therefore, it gets the majority of airplay. I posted a bit of an explanation about this on my blog last night: http://blogs.msdn.com/tomarcher/archive/2006/03/26/561172.aspx#comments[^] Tom Archer (blog) Program Manager MSDN Online (Windows Vista and Visual C++) MICROSOFT
-
Remember though, when you're talking about a legal dept, that's pretty much their definition - picky. Anyway, there's a chance for liability, the company is going to err on the side of caution. Therefore, instead of telling employees that some files shoudl ship with EULAs and some shouldn't - and thereby opening a bunch of subjective decision making - legal simply says "do it this way for everything." Tom Archer (blog) Program Manager MSDN Online (Windows Vista and Visual C++) MICROSOFT
I've worked in enough big companies to know how little leeway you get when word comes down on high about these kind of things :-) It just struck me as odd, given MS's new-found focus on security. Apologies for hijacking the thread, BTW :-). I wasn't having a go, just wondering out loud...
0 bottles of beer on the wall, 0 bottles of beer, you take 1 down, pass it around, 4294967295 bottles of beer on the wall. Awasu 2.2 [^]: A free RSS/Atom feed reader with support for Code Project.
-
Pursuant to all the talk today about native code, I thought I'd mention that we have a spreadsheet that lists all the new Windows API functions that will be released with Windows Vista. This spreadsheet is in the same download[^] that contains the Help file (.CHM) of the Windows Vista Developer Story[^]. Tom Archer (blog) Program Manager MSDN Online (Windows Vista and Visual C++) MICROSOFT
Tom, Can I host the file on my site for our .Net users group? Jerry My Programming Library /* You are not expected to understand this */
-
I've worked in enough big companies to know how little leeway you get when word comes down on high about these kind of things :-) It just struck me as odd, given MS's new-found focus on security. Apologies for hijacking the thread, BTW :-). I wasn't having a go, just wondering out loud...
0 bottles of beer on the wall, 0 bottles of beer, you take 1 down, pass it around, 4294967295 bottles of beer on the wall. Awasu 2.2 [^]: A free RSS/Atom feed reader with support for Code Project.
Taka Muraoka wrote:
Apologies for hijacking the thread, BTW . I wasn't having a go, just wondering out loud...
No worries bro. You're nowhere near my record for worst hijacking of a thread! When I first got to Microsoft, I saw a thread from the MSDN Subscriptions team congratulating everyone on the release of Visual Studio 2005 and announcing that everything was online for customers. I then saw posts on CodeProject to the effect of people not being able to download Visual Studio Team System. I then responded to the thread and let others know that the downloads weren't working for some people for that product. Major OOPS! Some manager marched into my office and let me know that in the future I should probably take more care to note the distribution lists on the mail. Evidently, I was replying to a thread that included every senior person at Microsoft!! They then sent around threads like "What?! Customers can't get the bits!???" when it just an issue of the customers not realizing that they needed a different subscription level for VSTS. That day I learned that threads like that from senior management are more for "attaboys" - and only among the senior management - than discussion. To put this into perspective what I did would be like if Bill Gates sent out an email congratulating everyone on shipping Windows Vista and someone replied something like "But it’s not working on my machine!” LOL! Needless to say, I’ll probably be kidded about that for the rest of my career here. :-O Tom Archer (blog) Program Manager MSDN Online (Windows Vista and Visual C++) MICROSOFT
-
Tom, Can I host the file on my site for our .Net users group? Jerry My Programming Library /* You are not expected to understand this */
That list is being updated all the time so you would probably be safer to point to the original file. If you're worried about it going away, that shouldn't be a concern. Once something like that is up there, we continually use the same URL as too many peope depend on it. Tom Archer (blog) Program Manager MSDN Online (Windows Vista and Visual C++) MICROSOFT