[Message Deleted]
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ROWALI wrote:
My point was majority of indian programmers are not good programmers.
Yeah, I still have trouble differentiating between a for loop and a while loop, and I also don't get pointers. Also, could someone explain to me why we need to compile a VB program before running it? That is confusing to me - really confusing!
ROWALI wrote:
Whats your take on this?
See Where have all the Indian developers gone?[^] Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
The Ultimate Grid - The #1 MFC grid out there! -
It's the same everywhere mate :) Lots of people end up in the profession as a second or third choice in the UK. After realising that they ain't going to get a decent job with a first degree in psychology, they suddenly develop an interest in computer programming. Not to say that you have to have been doing it from the age of 12 to be good (or that having done so is sufficient), but a genuine interest in your subject will help raise you above the mean even if it does not make you exceptional. As for programmer ego, that's often related to age. Once they have failed a few times and not redistributed blame, they may calm down. And there are very very few exceptional programmers, that's kind of what exceptional means :) Ryan
"Michael Moore and Mel Gibson are the same person, except for a few sit-ups. Moore thought his cheesy political blooper reel was going to tell people how to vote. Mel thought that his little gay SM movie about his imaginary friend was going to help him get to heaven." - Penn Jillette
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ROWALI wrote:
My point was majority of indian programmers are not good programmers.
Yeah, I still have trouble differentiating between a for loop and a while loop, and I also don't get pointers. Also, could someone explain to me why we need to compile a VB program before running it? That is confusing to me - really confusing!
ROWALI wrote:
Whats your take on this?
See Where have all the Indian developers gone?[^] Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
The Ultimate Grid - The #1 MFC grid out there!Nishant Sivakumar wrote:
Yeah, I still have trouble differentiating between a for loop and a while loop, and I also don't get pointers. Also, could someone explain to me why we need to compile a VB program before running it? That is confusing to me - really confusing!
:laugh:
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I don't think it is different in any country. What we see on the outside, the finished apps and papers, of other countries can take on a better hue than what the reality is. Our own countries get tarnished by our insider knowledge of them. The same happens in companies. Name any admirable company and you will find some horror stories within its walls. I was constantly surprised by the number of non-Americans in Microsoft teams at the Mix 06 conference. Really bright guys from Eastern Europe, China and India. regards, Paul Watson Ireland Feed Henry! K(arl) wrote: oh, and BTW, CHRISTIAN ISN'T A PARADOX, HE IS A TASMANIAN!
adapted from toxcct:
while (!enough)
sprintf 0 || 1
do -
I don't think it is different in any country. What we see on the outside, the finished apps and papers, of other countries can take on a better hue than what the reality is. Our own countries get tarnished by our insider knowledge of them. The same happens in companies. Name any admirable company and you will find some horror stories within its walls. I was constantly surprised by the number of non-Americans in Microsoft teams at the Mix 06 conference. Really bright guys from Eastern Europe, China and India. regards, Paul Watson Ireland Feed Henry! K(arl) wrote: oh, and BTW, CHRISTIAN ISN'T A PARADOX, HE IS A TASMANIAN!
adapted from toxcct:
while (!enough)
sprintf 0 || 1
do -
I don't think it is different in any country. What we see on the outside, the finished apps and papers, of other countries can take on a better hue than what the reality is. Our own countries get tarnished by our insider knowledge of them. The same happens in companies. Name any admirable company and you will find some horror stories within its walls. I was constantly surprised by the number of non-Americans in Microsoft teams at the Mix 06 conference. Really bright guys from Eastern Europe, China and India. regards, Paul Watson Ireland Feed Henry! K(arl) wrote: oh, and BTW, CHRISTIAN ISN'T A PARADOX, HE IS A TASMANIAN!
adapted from toxcct:
while (!enough)
sprintf 0 || 1
doI hadn't met a good black programmer until I started working at FNB, only two years ago, but I had known many, many good Indian SA programmers, and I've been doing this for eight years. I think all that shows is that one cannot generalise about anything except what occurs in the general case. I used to get high on life until I realized that life was cut with morons - Unknown
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ROWALI wrote:
Whats your take on this?
I think the real question is, are programmers good programmers? And from my experience, I would say, the majority are not. This begs the question though, what do you mean by "good"? I define good by (sort of C#-centric): comments their code Understands: when to use exceptions fields, properties, methods -- how they should be used, public/private/protected delegates and events (function pointers) collections and how to use them familiar with best practices and their pros and cons (yeah, that's too vague) writes code in small functions rather than huge monolithic methods Notice I didn't say needs to know OOP/OOD? Marc Pensieve Functional Entanglement vs. Code Entanglement Static Classes Make For Rigid Architectures Some people believe what the bible says. Literally. At least [with Wikipedia] you have the chance to correct the wiki -- Jörgen Sigvardsson
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I am working for a Large Insurance Company (A 12 billion dollar organization from US) and they are more than happy with our performance. In there history first time we have deliver them project within time period and that was a surprise for them; considering that my organization has taken this assignment after they are unhappy with a big software company from US named Computer Science Corporation which has specialization on Insurance domain, they have rejected whatever CSC has done and we have restarted everything here... And this is not exception it’s a trend here ;)
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ROWALI wrote:
Whats your take on this?
I think it is a "you get what you pay for" scenerio. There are exceptions, but even in the USA if you take the employee who had the lowest salary demands of all your applicants, because you need to save money, you will usually get poor programmers (or a possibly a programmer who undervalues himself). I have had a conversation with my boss in years past on how to find another "me". First I remind him that I am not perfect, and he laughs and agrees, but his point was finding a programmer they got "cheap" who was doing work that was very advanced. The only thing I could come up with that wouldn't be "pure luck" is that I enjoy programming, it is hobby and job. Because I enjoy programming, I am inclined to improve my programming through discovery and instruction at every opportunity. That made some sense to him, he enjoyed engineering. When your job becomes "just a job" something you are glad you are paid for because you would never do it otherwise because you hate it... you will always choose the simply path, you will always put in the minimal effort, and there is absolutely no incentive to improve no matter what level you enter the work force at, or in what country. Aptitude is a big part, but so is enthusiasm. If you don't care about your job and the work you do, you will not do as good a job and no matter what your entry level is, you have no desire to improve.
ROWALI wrote:
Majority of their coding std is very poor and their verbal communication std is very low. THeir egoistic attitude is also very bad.
The same could be said for PhD level programmers. No offense to the education sector (I am going back to school soon myself), but you can find many groups with ego problems and communication problems can be as easily from lack of knowledge/experience as it is from too much. When you reach a scale so far above in education, some get the idea that their opinion is automatically the better, without testing, without verification, and when they explain it the explanation is meant to belittle the one with lesser education. In truth, it doesn't matter whether you come from India or have a PhD, or any number of factors per se, it is a reversal of thought, the problem is the ego not the country or the paper. A person who tries to communicate well, and continue to improve will eventually. A person who does not believe himself automatically entitled to some
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I have a doubt..why you are connecting programming ability with the country? Programming ability is something which does not related to the country. Any country in the world can have good or bad programmers. Its all depend on the individual(the programmer).. I believe CP forums are not for abusing people from one country Thanks, Madhu.
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ROWALI wrote:
Whats your take on this?
I think the real question is, are programmers good programmers? And from my experience, I would say, the majority are not. This begs the question though, what do you mean by "good"? I define good by (sort of C#-centric): comments their code Understands: when to use exceptions fields, properties, methods -- how they should be used, public/private/protected delegates and events (function pointers) collections and how to use them familiar with best practices and their pros and cons (yeah, that's too vague) writes code in small functions rather than huge monolithic methods Notice I didn't say needs to know OOP/OOD? Marc Pensieve Functional Entanglement vs. Code Entanglement Static Classes Make For Rigid Architectures Some people believe what the bible says. Literally. At least [with Wikipedia] you have the chance to correct the wiki -- Jörgen Sigvardsson
Marc Clifton wrote:
writes code in small functions rather than huge monolithic methods
I would put that as "well balanced" functions.... small is nice, but I have heard of some programmers who beleive no language operation should be operated on its own, it should be wrapped in a class/method. So to add two variables you are never allowed to have in your code "c=a+b;" you must replace one line with "c=a; c.add(b);" because you also can never have more than one operation. This results in a functional push-pop on a huge magnitude and the code grinds to a halt because your functions are so small that the CPU is spending more time pushing and popping and jumping through your code than actually doing the operation requested. All things can go too far in extremes. Finding where "well balanced" is can be a learning experience itself. Small is good, too small is just as bad. _________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
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I am working for a Large Insurance Company (A 12 billion dollar organization from US) and they are more than happy with our performance. In there history first time we have deliver them project within time period and that was a surprise for them; considering that my organization has taken this assignment after they are unhappy with a big software company from US named Computer Science Corporation which has specialization on Insurance domain, they have rejected whatever CSC has done and we have restarted everything here... And this is not exception it’s a trend here ;)
Mukesh Kumar Gupta wrote:
And this is not exception it’s a trend here
I think it has nothing to do with the country, but the attitude. If your company has the desire to give quality, reward for quality and bring attention to quality, then the employees will produce quality. The "niche" programming areas like insurance and medicine have long since been paid the same no matter what quality they give out. Now they have competition, the side with the higher desire for quality in product will win, the country is a side issue, not the relevant factor. _________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
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Marc Clifton wrote:
writes code in small functions rather than huge monolithic methods
I would put that as "well balanced" functions.... small is nice, but I have heard of some programmers who beleive no language operation should be operated on its own, it should be wrapped in a class/method. So to add two variables you are never allowed to have in your code "c=a+b;" you must replace one line with "c=a; c.add(b);" because you also can never have more than one operation. This results in a functional push-pop on a huge magnitude and the code grinds to a halt because your functions are so small that the CPU is spending more time pushing and popping and jumping through your code than actually doing the operation requested. All things can go too far in extremes. Finding where "well balanced" is can be a learning experience itself. Small is good, too small is just as bad. _________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
Jeffry J. Brickley wrote:
I would put that as "well balanced" functions....
Absolutely. That says it much better. :) Marc Pensieve Functional Entanglement vs. Code Entanglement Static Classes Make For Rigid Architectures Some people believe what the bible says. Literally. At least [with Wikipedia] you have the chance to correct the wiki -- Jörgen Sigvardsson
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Have you heard of “Writing Solid Code” book? Last Chapter is “The Rest is Attitude”. Whatever books you read, whatever tricks you learn, at the end it come the attitude, that drives us to go beyond the good, to go extra mile and to reach excellence. It is not only for programming job, but it is applicable to any kind of job. And this is applicable to the whole world. It has nothing to do with a specific country. Communication skills are not necessary to become a good programmer. Yes it adds one more feather to your cap and helps you to compete on world stage. All I can say for you is that it’s your bad luck that your experience with Indian programmers is not good.