Lady Developers
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Just an idle question; how many women are there around here? CP is quite male-dominated - which reflects development in general, as I'd expect - but I presume there are some other female contributors? Just curious. :)
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Wouldnt it be great to find a good woman (willing to date a programer :() who also programs? LOL not to many woman are interested in programing when you try to explain it to them! You get the old 'Yea thats cool.....' :zzz: Pablo
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oh yeah ive had the old eyes glaze over look from my sheila :rose: a few times. And the words geek, dork etc :omg: Tim
LOL Pablo
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I actually used to work with this couple, from 2 different programming departments mind you, the woman programmed in Cobol and had done it for many years, her husband worked in the VB department with me and had been programming for only about 7 years. I believe that they both had desk at home in the same room and at night they would go to their respective corners and surf or code. Must have been a match made in heaven. As far as explaining it, it is the same for me. My husband's eyes glaze over when I start talking shop. He could care less and definitely doesn't understand any of it.
My husband programs, but only in VB4 and ASP so far (he doesn't see the point of objects :). I know a lot more about modern networking, web and programming concepts than he does, but he's a lot more handy, so he gets to deal with the hardware side of things if need be. As to going to our respective corners to surf and code... well, it's not so lonely when you have a network ;)
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I've never actually met a 'lady' programmer. "You get that which you tolerate"
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Basically, programming trend is less in womens. Is that due to the fact that womens think less :doh: well, I admire that in some areas they are really great, but the fact is that, there are really less women in programming field. I have been trying to search to employee, but honestly, couldnt get good match, basically found just fresh graduates who were not sure where to go. However, I have seen women working as technical writers in my friend's office, but honestly saying, most of the time they dont like to think :-O Need custom software? Contact DevelopersINN[^] Need to add reminders for your Outlook emails? Try Outlook Personal Assistant[^]
I am trying really hard to not be upset by the comments in this post. While I don't disagree that the trend in programming may show that more men are interested in the field than women, I do not think that women 'think less well'. What ever in this world would give you the idea that women can not think on the same level as men? My brain is the same as your brain, actually since I am left-handed there have been studies that show that I use more of my brain than you probably do. Of course, your post proves that I use more of my brain than you do! Women have been taught from birth to show their emotions and to be nurturing,thoughtful and kind. We were given dolls to play with instead of trucks. Is that a bad thing? Not necessarily, it just makes us look at situations differently. Maybe I was one of the lucky women who grew up in a family where they did not pidgeon hole me because I was born female. I played with dolls and trucks. I learned to hunt and fish as well as keep house. I spent many hours helping my dad in his garage, because he did not believe that a woman wasn't capable of doing that type of work. I can build and troubleshoot computers as good as any man can and have been doing it for years. Maybe the women that you have interviewed so far have been taught to hide their intelligence because in some cultures men find it an unattractive trait. I can tell you why you could not find a woman in this field that was a good match. Stand back and take a look at your perceptions of women. You will find your answer there. It sounds to me like you think very little of women in general and think that they have specific jobs that they should stick to. Could it be that you always look for less qualified women so that you can reject their applications or that you are seeing some character trait (talkative, shy, not bragging that they are the smartest person on the planet) that you perceive as a flaw and therefore reject them as being somehow less qualified? I think so. Why would you think that the women in your friend's office don't want to think? Do they ask a lot of questions? Being curious and wanting to get enough information to get the job done right is not a bad thing. Maybe they truly have not been given enough information to get the job done. Maybe your friend has the same perceptions of women that you do and has hired women are less qualified or who feel the need for constant confirmation of their work. There are men that require the same constant confirmation of their work in case
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My husband programs, but only in VB4 and ASP so far (he doesn't see the point of objects :). I know a lot more about modern networking, web and programming concepts than he does, but he's a lot more handy, so he gets to deal with the hardware side of things if need be. As to going to our respective corners to surf and code... well, it's not so lonely when you have a network ;)
Yeah.....networks are a great thing. Since my husband is neither into programming nor harware, I set up all the computer equipment and the network and do all the troubleshooting. I could spend 24 hours a day, seven days a week in front of the computer. My husband would rather use his as a doorstop. I try to make sure that I am not on the computer during the evening. If I have to be because of a deadline or something, then having a wireless network allows me to move from room to room with the laptop and work while he watches tv, etc.
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Wouldnt it be great to find a good woman (willing to date a programer :() who also programs? LOL not to many woman are interested in programing when you try to explain it to them! You get the old 'Yea thats cool.....' :zzz: Pablo
Hey, Pablo, it's great there are guys like you out there. Most of the guys *I* met never understood the thrill of commanding a computer, fighting wars with your own code (late at night, of course) and finding new ways to do really cool things with bits and bytes :) Luckily for me, my boyfriend is a computer geek as well and we both think it's very cool to have a partner who knows and shares this hobby that becomes your addiction, your life. There is just one problem: I'm very Microsoft-oriented and he prefers Linux & Open Source development, so we tend to argue a lot :-D Good luck with finding your programming gal ;) Andreja -- modified at 13:12 Monday 10th April, 2006
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Hey, Pablo, it's great there are guys like you out there. Most of the guys *I* met never understood the thrill of commanding a computer, fighting wars with your own code (late at night, of course) and finding new ways to do really cool things with bits and bytes :) Luckily for me, my boyfriend is a computer geek as well and we both think it's very cool to have a partner who knows and shares this hobby that becomes your addiction, your life. There is just one problem: I'm very Microsoft-oriented and he prefers Linux & Open Source development, so we tend to argue a lot :-D Good luck with finding your programming gal ;) Andreja -- modified at 13:12 Monday 10th April, 2006
Thanks:-D I knew there where some women in here lol. Bits are the best!!! I use them constantly one boolean gives you 8 booleans if you know how to use them:-D Linux does have some good stuff, and open source is great because things get done faster and usually work better when you have the whole world working on a problem! But windows has some great stuff also...mac to lol. I guess its just where your the most comfortable that really matters. I used to program strictly for Mac...then i started messing with windows and linux...and now windows pays the bills lol. Pablo
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Basically, programming trend is less in womens. Is that due to the fact that womens think less :doh: well, I admire that in some areas they are really great, but the fact is that, there are really less women in programming field. I have been trying to search to employee, but honestly, couldnt get good match, basically found just fresh graduates who were not sure where to go. However, I have seen women working as technical writers in my friend's office, but honestly saying, most of the time they dont like to think :-O Need custom software? Contact DevelopersINN[^] Need to add reminders for your Outlook emails? Try Outlook Personal Assistant[^]
Sameers (theAngrycodeR ) wrote:
Is that due to the fact that womens think less well
Based on some of the software I've seen in my time, I'd say that thinking isn't a strong point of quite a few male developers. ;) (And Tommie has already pointed out why this kind of comment is offensive even in the guise of a "joke".)
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Huh? I doubt you're mean-spirited, :~ just ignorant.
John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
The definition of "female" is stretched a little thin here... Some are, some aren't - females, I mean. Not trying to be mean-spirited, just stating facts as I know them...
Ya know, I was just gonna let this go, but now, I'm not in the mood to let it squeek by because the absurdity meter on my desk is goin' ape-shit... At least one of the people here had a gender-alteration a few of years ago. Who it was isn't important, and even the fact that he did it isn't either. What *IS* important is that he tries to claim he's just "one of the girls", and that's a bald-face fuckin' lie. It's fine with me if he wants to try on pretty little spring dresses and run around pretending he's a girl, but if he hadn't said anything in the thread and prtened to be somethin' he ain't, I wouldn't have brought it up (and he knew that ahead of time). So take your holier-than-thou attitude and shove it up your gaping anal pore. M'kay? And just to let you know, you picked the wrong person here to piss off with your first post. ------- sig starts "I've heard some drivers saying, 'We're going too fast here...'. If you're not here to race, go the hell home - don't come here and grumble about going too fast. Why don't you tie a kerosene rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt "...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001
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Ya know, I was just gonna let this go, but now, I'm not in the mood to let it squeek by because the absurdity meter on my desk is goin' ape-shit... At least one of the people here had a gender-alteration a few of years ago. Who it was isn't important, and even the fact that he did it isn't either. What *IS* important is that he tries to claim he's just "one of the girls", and that's a bald-face fuckin' lie. It's fine with me if he wants to try on pretty little spring dresses and run around pretending he's a girl, but if he hadn't said anything in the thread and prtened to be somethin' he ain't, I wouldn't have brought it up (and he knew that ahead of time). So take your holier-than-thou attitude and shove it up your gaping anal pore. M'kay? And just to let you know, you picked the wrong person here to piss off with your first post. ------- sig starts "I've heard some drivers saying, 'We're going too fast here...'. If you're not here to race, go the hell home - don't come here and grumble about going too fast. Why don't you tie a kerosene rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt "...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001
Oh, I take it back then. Mr Simmons, you are ridiculously mean-spirited, incredibly ignorant, and undoubtedly need to get a life. X|
John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
ForumThe Lounge Subject:Re: Lady Developers Sender:John Simmons / outlaw programmer Date:18:44 10 Apr '06 Ya know, I was just gonna let this go, but now, I'm not in the mood to let it squeek by because the absurdity meter on my desk is goin' ape-shit... At least one of the people here had a gender-alteration a few of years ago. Who it was isn't important, and even the fact that he did it isn't either. What *IS* important is that he tries to claim he's just "one of the girls", and that's a bald-face fuckin' lie. It's fine with me if he wants to try on pretty little spring dresses and run around pretending he's a girl, but if he hadn't said anything in the thread and prtened to be somethin' he ain't, I wouldn't have brought it up (and he knew that ahead of time). So take your holier-than-thou attitude and shove it up your gaping anal pore. M'kay? And just to let you know, you picked the wrong person here to piss off with your first post.
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Wouldnt it be great to find a good woman (willing to date a programer :() who also programs? LOL not to many woman are interested in programing when you try to explain it to them! You get the old 'Yea thats cool.....' :zzz: Pablo
Polymorpher wrote:
Wouldnt it be great to find a good woman (willing to date a programer ) who also programs? LOL not to many woman are interested in programing when you try to explain it to them! You get the old 'Yea thats cool.....'
Well, I'm a female programmer and my boy-friend is a programer as well :-D In the room next to mine there is a couple who are also both programmers I know what you mean, my ex boy-friend wasn't a programmer and it bugged me that I couldn't talk about programing with him... Not that he wouldn't wan't to listen, he just couldn't understand it :laugh: There's about 5 of us female progremmers and about 25 male programmers at my work :-).
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Polymorpher wrote:
Wouldnt it be great to find a good woman (willing to date a programer ) who also programs? LOL not to many woman are interested in programing when you try to explain it to them! You get the old 'Yea thats cool.....'
Well, I'm a female programmer and my boy-friend is a programer as well :-D In the room next to mine there is a couple who are also both programmers I know what you mean, my ex boy-friend wasn't a programmer and it bugged me that I couldn't talk about programing with him... Not that he wouldn't wan't to listen, he just couldn't understand it :laugh: There's about 5 of us female progremmers and about 25 male programmers at my work :-).
So thats who's hogging up all the females LOL....Thats ssssooooooo unfair :( Cant we have at least one here where I work??? Pablo
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:laugh: Here our developers are 100% Steve (i.e. me) and no women. :sigh:
LMAO Those where the good old days when I had a 3 man crew(me, myself, and I) and no deadlines lol Pablo
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So thats who's hogging up all the females LOL....Thats ssssooooooo unfair :( Cant we have at least one here where I work??? Pablo
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I am trying really hard to not be upset by the comments in this post. While I don't disagree that the trend in programming may show that more men are interested in the field than women, I do not think that women 'think less well'. What ever in this world would give you the idea that women can not think on the same level as men? My brain is the same as your brain, actually since I am left-handed there have been studies that show that I use more of my brain than you probably do. Of course, your post proves that I use more of my brain than you do! Women have been taught from birth to show their emotions and to be nurturing,thoughtful and kind. We were given dolls to play with instead of trucks. Is that a bad thing? Not necessarily, it just makes us look at situations differently. Maybe I was one of the lucky women who grew up in a family where they did not pidgeon hole me because I was born female. I played with dolls and trucks. I learned to hunt and fish as well as keep house. I spent many hours helping my dad in his garage, because he did not believe that a woman wasn't capable of doing that type of work. I can build and troubleshoot computers as good as any man can and have been doing it for years. Maybe the women that you have interviewed so far have been taught to hide their intelligence because in some cultures men find it an unattractive trait. I can tell you why you could not find a woman in this field that was a good match. Stand back and take a look at your perceptions of women. You will find your answer there. It sounds to me like you think very little of women in general and think that they have specific jobs that they should stick to. Could it be that you always look for less qualified women so that you can reject their applications or that you are seeing some character trait (talkative, shy, not bragging that they are the smartest person on the planet) that you perceive as a flaw and therefore reject them as being somehow less qualified? I think so. Why would you think that the women in your friend's office don't want to think? Do they ask a lot of questions? Being curious and wanting to get enough information to get the job done right is not a bad thing. Maybe they truly have not been given enough information to get the job done. Maybe your friend has the same perceptions of women that you do and has hired women are less qualified or who feel the need for constant confirmation of their work. There are men that require the same constant confirmation of their work in case
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Though I think you've been a little too harsh, this was a most enjoyable post to read :D
I am glad that you enjoyed my post....hopefully if it did not at least enlighten people it entertained them. I was wondering though, after your comment that my post might have been too harsh, if you had actually read the post above mine first. Here it is just in case you did not read it. According to Sameers (theAngrycodeR): "Basically, programming trend is less in womens. Is that due to the fact that womens think less :doh: well, I admire that in some areas they are really great, but the fact is that, there are really less women in programming field. I have been trying to search to employee, but honestly, couldnt get good match, basically found just fresh graduates who were not sure where to go. However, I have seen women working as technical writers in my friend's office, but honestly saying, most of the time they dont like to think :-O" He is basically saying that women think less well (whatever you take that to mean) than men and that they are only suited to work in certain areas. He also can't find a good match for a job opening that he has. However he just said that women think less well than men and are only suited to certain types of positions, so how exactly is he going to find a good match when he just negated over 1/2 of the world population as not being able to think well enough to employee? I don't really think that I was harsh enough. I tried to temper my response remembering that people from other countries don't necessarily have the same views that I was raised with. BUT.....while it is true that women's minds work differently than men, it is not true that our thinking is in any way inferior to the male of the species. It is a fact, however, that girls excel during the early school years and are reading and doing math at a much higher level than boys because during those years boys are still working on their fine motor skills. Boys do excel later in math and science, but this could be a bi-product of an educational system that still considers boys as mathematicians and scientist and girls as cheerleaders, homemakers, and secretaries. Women programmers rule......male programmers drool!
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I am glad that you enjoyed my post....hopefully if it did not at least enlighten people it entertained them. I was wondering though, after your comment that my post might have been too harsh, if you had actually read the post above mine first. Here it is just in case you did not read it. According to Sameers (theAngrycodeR): "Basically, programming trend is less in womens. Is that due to the fact that womens think less :doh: well, I admire that in some areas they are really great, but the fact is that, there are really less women in programming field. I have been trying to search to employee, but honestly, couldnt get good match, basically found just fresh graduates who were not sure where to go. However, I have seen women working as technical writers in my friend's office, but honestly saying, most of the time they dont like to think :-O" He is basically saying that women think less well (whatever you take that to mean) than men and that they are only suited to work in certain areas. He also can't find a good match for a job opening that he has. However he just said that women think less well than men and are only suited to certain types of positions, so how exactly is he going to find a good match when he just negated over 1/2 of the world population as not being able to think well enough to employee? I don't really think that I was harsh enough. I tried to temper my response remembering that people from other countries don't necessarily have the same views that I was raised with. BUT.....while it is true that women's minds work differently than men, it is not true that our thinking is in any way inferior to the male of the species. It is a fact, however, that girls excel during the early school years and are reading and doing math at a much higher level than boys because during those years boys are still working on their fine motor skills. Boys do excel later in math and science, but this could be a bi-product of an educational system that still considers boys as mathematicians and scientist and girls as cheerleaders, homemakers, and secretaries. Women programmers rule......male programmers drool!
Oh, I read his post, don't worry. It's just that I didn't take him that seriously. His entire post and the "womens think less" attitude sounded so immature to me that I didn't even give it a thought before I read your post. While I think it's extremely silly to say that women are not capable of thinking on the same level as men, you have to keep two things in mind: he's 28 years old, which I think is still very young, and more important, he's from Pakistan. I doubt women are much encouraged to think on their own there. It's the same thing when they say in my country (and I believe in other countries too) that people from the country side are not as smart as people from the city. As much as I hate stereotypes, I do have to agree with this one, but only in general. I'm not saying that the potential is not there, it's just that it's never been encouraged. Parents actually say to their children that school is of no use to them and all they need to know is how to plow fields and plant potatoes. Teachers there are mediocre, to say the least. The whole mentality is set against "smart" that only rare children manage to develop their true potential in atmosphere like that. But even in an atmosphere like that there are extraordinary minds. I assume that things in Pakistan are not much different than that. I really doubt that women there are brought up and encouraged to think. I 'm not saying women there are not smart, they do have the same potential as women everywhere in the world, I'm just saying that the ones that managed to grow in such a society must be rarer than in the rest of the world, and that's really sad. Or maybe they're just hiding. So if Sameers still hasn't met one, I don't think we should attack him because of that, but rather feel sorry for him :). Nevertheless, I do enjoy it when a woman puts a man it his place :D
tommieb wrote:
Women programmers rule......male programmers drool!
Now that's a signature if I ever saw one :laugh:
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Oh, I read his post, don't worry. It's just that I didn't take him that seriously. His entire post and the "womens think less" attitude sounded so immature to me that I didn't even give it a thought before I read your post. While I think it's extremely silly to say that women are not capable of thinking on the same level as men, you have to keep two things in mind: he's 28 years old, which I think is still very young, and more important, he's from Pakistan. I doubt women are much encouraged to think on their own there. It's the same thing when they say in my country (and I believe in other countries too) that people from the country side are not as smart as people from the city. As much as I hate stereotypes, I do have to agree with this one, but only in general. I'm not saying that the potential is not there, it's just that it's never been encouraged. Parents actually say to their children that school is of no use to them and all they need to know is how to plow fields and plant potatoes. Teachers there are mediocre, to say the least. The whole mentality is set against "smart" that only rare children manage to develop their true potential in atmosphere like that. But even in an atmosphere like that there are extraordinary minds. I assume that things in Pakistan are not much different than that. I really doubt that women there are brought up and encouraged to think. I 'm not saying women there are not smart, they do have the same potential as women everywhere in the world, I'm just saying that the ones that managed to grow in such a society must be rarer than in the rest of the world, and that's really sad. Or maybe they're just hiding. So if Sameers still hasn't met one, I don't think we should attack him because of that, but rather feel sorry for him :). Nevertheless, I do enjoy it when a woman puts a man it his place :D
tommieb wrote:
Women programmers rule......male programmers drool!
Now that's a signature if I ever saw one :laugh:
That was not an attack. I do understand that there are countries out there where women are not looked upon as equal or as even smart enough to do anything other than get pregnant and cook meals. That mindset will never change unless we change it one person at a time. It is also extremely sad that any place in this world still believes and tells their children that they don't need an education just to know how to plow a field. Know what......I am from the deep south.....very deep south. I was born and raise in Louisiana. If you even attempt to watch tv you have probably seen shows portraying people from there in a less than stellar light. I have a very heavy country/southern accent and it is commented on almost daily. I know that there are people out there that actually think that people from Louisiana are ignorant, red-neck, swamp-rats that marry their first cousins and can't read. I have run up against this attitude on more than one occassion. When I talk the first looks that I get from some people says "Oh my god.....another ignorant red-neck.....run before she runs us over with her pickup truck." Then as I continue to talk and they truly get over the accent and listen to what I am saying they realize that I am probably a hell of a lot smarter than they are and that I know what I am talking about. It is up to women like us.....strong women.....women who have reached for a man's job and done it with skill and grace under pressure....to make the rest of the world see that a woman's place is in the home, and in the field, and in front of the keyboards, and in the service, and yes, even in the oval office. PS.....I don't consider a 28 year old man to be a kid. At 28 years old, he should be old enough to know how to be a gentleman and how to show women (any women) enough respect to keep his antiquated beliefs to himself. What he said, whether it was intentional or not, whether it was a joke or not, was offensive to me as well as to other women on this board.
