which job I should take?
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Two offers for me, a postgraduate student, with much, but mostly part-time project experience. One is a big international telecom company and the other is a very small Computer Vision company. I studied Computer Vision during my postgraduate program and I did fairly well on this subject. I can't figure out the pros and cons. Computer Vision is what I love, but telecom sounds not bad, too. And the experience in a big company means more good-looking CV, but a small company may offer a better chance for promotion... What do you guys think about this?
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Two offers for me, a postgraduate student, with much, but mostly part-time project experience. One is a big international telecom company and the other is a very small Computer Vision company. I studied Computer Vision during my postgraduate program and I did fairly well on this subject. I can't figure out the pros and cons. Computer Vision is what I love, but telecom sounds not bad, too. And the experience in a big company means more good-looking CV, but a small company may offer a better chance for promotion... What do you guys think about this?
At the beginning of your career, you also need to look at opportunities for learning from other people. Small companies usually don't give you much of an opportunity - there's just not very many people. Large companies are often more valuable as there are more people to learn from. I certainly found this when I was starting.
Ryan
"Punctuality is only a virtue for those who aren't smart enough to think of good excuses for being late" John Nichol "Point Of Impact"
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At the beginning of your career, you also need to look at opportunities for learning from other people. Small companies usually don't give you much of an opportunity - there's just not very many people. Large companies are often more valuable as there are more people to learn from. I certainly found this when I was starting.
Ryan
"Punctuality is only a virtue for those who aren't smart enough to think of good excuses for being late" John Nichol "Point Of Impact"
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Two offers for me, a postgraduate student, with much, but mostly part-time project experience. One is a big international telecom company and the other is a very small Computer Vision company. I studied Computer Vision during my postgraduate program and I did fairly well on this subject. I can't figure out the pros and cons. Computer Vision is what I love, but telecom sounds not bad, too. And the experience in a big company means more good-looking CV, but a small company may offer a better chance for promotion... What do you guys think about this?
I think, you should have worked for a big company at least once within the first 4-5 years of your career. Small companies have their advantages, but the big-corporate-company experience can be invaluable too. My biggest company was my first (30-odd people) and since then, I've twice changed jobs, each time to a small company. And when friends tell me about the people-politics, infighting etc. going on in big companies and how they combat them, I sometimes feel I missed out some rather unique experiences that you can only get from a big company. Of course, all my big-company friends eventually moved to much smaller companies and tell me that they are happier now, but I am sure the corporate experience did help them gain experience in handling certain scenarios. Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
The Ultimate Grid - The #1 MFC grid out there! -
Two offers for me, a postgraduate student, with much, but mostly part-time project experience. One is a big international telecom company and the other is a very small Computer Vision company. I studied Computer Vision during my postgraduate program and I did fairly well on this subject. I can't figure out the pros and cons. Computer Vision is what I love, but telecom sounds not bad, too. And the experience in a big company means more good-looking CV, but a small company may offer a better chance for promotion... What do you guys think about this?
Go for the small company. You'll get a wider variety of experience. In most small companies I've worked at, everybody pitches in to do what is needed. My first job back in 1988, was for a small company. As well as coding, I was expected to both phone and on-site tech support. I also did a lot of testing. Whilst I didn't always enjoy it, it gave me a good grounding in dealing with customers and understanding why things work as well as how they work. You should however go for something that you'll love doing, something that excites you, there is nothing worse than doing a job that you don't enjoy doing. Michael CP Blog [^] Development Blog [^]
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Two offers for me, a postgraduate student, with much, but mostly part-time project experience. One is a big international telecom company and the other is a very small Computer Vision company. I studied Computer Vision during my postgraduate program and I did fairly well on this subject. I can't figure out the pros and cons. Computer Vision is what I love, but telecom sounds not bad, too. And the experience in a big company means more good-looking CV, but a small company may offer a better chance for promotion... What do you guys think about this?
I think, that you should choose "what YOU like", instead of "what THEY say". I choose work with less money, but I'm "developer". and I proud of it. Some of my friends selected "support work": they earn more money, but they're unhappy... This is your life. I think you can choose what you want ! Good luck ! Best regards, Alexey.
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Two offers for me, a postgraduate student, with much, but mostly part-time project experience. One is a big international telecom company and the other is a very small Computer Vision company. I studied Computer Vision during my postgraduate program and I did fairly well on this subject. I can't figure out the pros and cons. Computer Vision is what I love, but telecom sounds not bad, too. And the experience in a big company means more good-looking CV, but a small company may offer a better chance for promotion... What do you guys think about this?
Woo hoo, pucker factor time. :) Seriously, unless the big company has some serious, obvious plusses, go with what you love. Yes, you *might* make a mistake. Live and learn. It's nice to have a choice. If you want to quantify it, then write down 5 things you want in your job. Next, see how many fit each job. Every offer will appear to be greener than the other - they *are* trying to sell you after all, right? Charlie Gilley Will program for food... Whoever said children were cheaper by the dozen... lied. My son's PDA is an M249 SAW.
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Two offers for me, a postgraduate student, with much, but mostly part-time project experience. One is a big international telecom company and the other is a very small Computer Vision company. I studied Computer Vision during my postgraduate program and I did fairly well on this subject. I can't figure out the pros and cons. Computer Vision is what I love, but telecom sounds not bad, too. And the experience in a big company means more good-looking CV, but a small company may offer a better chance for promotion... What do you guys think about this?
My background: I have worked at a multinational telecom company, a couple of well funded startups of 100+ employees, back to the telecom company for a few years, and now I'm at a bootstrap startup. If I were you I would skip the big company and go to the startup. The major reason is you get to do what you love, and that is worth a lot. Telecom is certainly interesting (that's where I grew up), and was a hot area for about 10 years, but it has entered a period of stagnation. Telecom today is where the defence industry was in the early 90's -- lots of downsizing and consolidation, and not a lot of movement in the state of the art. The routers being designed today are not significantly different than those designed 5 years ago. There are a lot more interesting areas of technology to work on. Life moves a lot quicker at a small company. You will learn more about the profession of software development at a small company in 1 year than you will at a big company in 3 years. There's a reason that big companies are referred to as the Dilbert Sector. Big company politics are fun the hear about second hand, but not so fun to have to put up with. The big company I worked at had plenty of sharp engineers working there. But so did all the small companies I worked at. The difference was that at the big company we were often hamstrung with heavyweight processes and comporate inertia. At the small companies there was more freedom to take chances and achieve interesting things -- and also to fail. The best reasons to work at a big company are the relative stability, the good benefits, and the low risk -- the company generally protects you from doing things that will harm it and by extension yourself. But if you have some fire in your belly, are confident in your abilities, and are tolerant to more risk, then a good small company will offer you a more satisfying career path. As far as the CV goes, in my experience as a hiring manager, and also as an engineer being hired, there was no inherent advantage to having worked at a big company versus a small one. It was what you *did* at the previous jobs that mattered. And in almost all cases you will do a lot more at a small company. I have interviewed and met many big company people who had incredibly narrow work experience. I met few small company people about whom I could say that. Finally, hiring managers at small companies usually look very suspiciously at candidates that spent
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Two offers for me, a postgraduate student, with much, but mostly part-time project experience. One is a big international telecom company and the other is a very small Computer Vision company. I studied Computer Vision during my postgraduate program and I did fairly well on this subject. I can't figure out the pros and cons. Computer Vision is what I love, but telecom sounds not bad, too. And the experience in a big company means more good-looking CV, but a small company may offer a better chance for promotion... What do you guys think about this?
Hmm, I have worked for big and small companies. Small +/- 3 employees and big +2000 employees both like has been mentioned before has its ups and downs... but I am more for small companies. You get to take true ownership of what you are doing and because resources are so scarce you get to do it all from dba to designing and etc. client liason and all other points mentioned. At a corporate you get to learn about structure, doing what you are told and there is never grey always black and white based on pilicy and politics. Then do what you love if telecoms is your passion rather find a small telco company in the big company you will do such a small subset of telco (because you will be held in the micro view) because the architect has the big picture view and will just delegate the parts off... at the small company you will get to be next to the architect and communicate your thoughts to him or you will even be a group of developers acting as an architect with this you will be able to get to do what you love... same applies for the Vision computing thing. Mitchell Geere
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Two offers for me, a postgraduate student, with much, but mostly part-time project experience. One is a big international telecom company and the other is a very small Computer Vision company. I studied Computer Vision during my postgraduate program and I did fairly well on this subject. I can't figure out the pros and cons. Computer Vision is what I love, but telecom sounds not bad, too. And the experience in a big company means more good-looking CV, but a small company may offer a better chance for promotion... What do you guys think about this?
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Two offers for me, a postgraduate student, with much, but mostly part-time project experience. One is a big international telecom company and the other is a very small Computer Vision company. I studied Computer Vision during my postgraduate program and I did fairly well on this subject. I can't figure out the pros and cons. Computer Vision is what I love, but telecom sounds not bad, too. And the experience in a big company means more good-looking CV, but a small company may offer a better chance for promotion... What do you guys think about this?
I would go with the small company...True you can learn alot from others at a bigger company, but your likely to have more freedom in a smaler company which means you can program, learn some from others, start learning how to function within a programing team, do some of the things on your own, and teach yourself other things. I am a strong beliver that learning on your own is a much better learning experience then having it handed to you...you will retain the information much better if your in a situation where you have to figure it out yourself then in one where you can just walk across the room and ask someone. Pablo
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Two offers for me, a postgraduate student, with much, but mostly part-time project experience. One is a big international telecom company and the other is a very small Computer Vision company. I studied Computer Vision during my postgraduate program and I did fairly well on this subject. I can't figure out the pros and cons. Computer Vision is what I love, but telecom sounds not bad, too. And the experience in a big company means more good-looking CV, but a small company may offer a better chance for promotion... What do you guys think about this?
The majority seem to think you should take the small business job, and I agree. The most important thing when looking at a new job is whether you are going to enjoy the work. When you enjoy what you are doing, you will be far more motivated to work harder, try new things, and learn. Happiness > money when it comes to your job. My first job was with a small web dev company of about 10 employees consisting of 3 developers. We all were forced to become proficient at a range of skills, and all got a chance to learn new technology. The senior developer was able to dedicate a lot of time teaching me alot of invaluable skills. The downside was that the company didn't have alot of money to throw around on training courses, or wages:) The company you are looking at is probably big enough for this to not be a real problem. I worked with that company for five years on relatively low pay, but I gained a lot of experience, which should be your aim. I don't recommend that you stay in your first job this long, but at the time IT jobs were scarce and I had to hang on to what I could:) Right now I think I am in the ideal position. I work for a large manufacturing company, but in a small dev group. I am now the senior analyst/programmer. The large company means more capital to spend on wages and training, but the small dev team means you are valued more highly, instead of just being a faceless head in a crowd. Leedrick
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The majority seem to think you should take the small business job, and I agree. The most important thing when looking at a new job is whether you are going to enjoy the work. When you enjoy what you are doing, you will be far more motivated to work harder, try new things, and learn. Happiness > money when it comes to your job. My first job was with a small web dev company of about 10 employees consisting of 3 developers. We all were forced to become proficient at a range of skills, and all got a chance to learn new technology. The senior developer was able to dedicate a lot of time teaching me alot of invaluable skills. The downside was that the company didn't have alot of money to throw around on training courses, or wages:) The company you are looking at is probably big enough for this to not be a real problem. I worked with that company for five years on relatively low pay, but I gained a lot of experience, which should be your aim. I don't recommend that you stay in your first job this long, but at the time IT jobs were scarce and I had to hang on to what I could:) Right now I think I am in the ideal position. I work for a large manufacturing company, but in a small dev group. I am now the senior analyst/programmer. The large company means more capital to spend on wages and training, but the small dev team means you are valued more highly, instead of just being a faceless head in a crowd. Leedrick
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Wow, this seems to be a great place for advice... May I ask why you wouldn't recommend staying in the first job for too long? Thanks! Chip
I think 2-3 years would be a good amount of time to spend in your first job. I just think once you stay in a place for a while, you fit into a groove and stagnate your learning process. There is so much to learn after you start working in the industry, and moving around is a great way to experience different aspects of it. You will get used to working in a particular way with certain technologies, and changing your job will throw you into potentially different technologies, with different experiences and problems you need to solve. The wider the variety of expertise you have, the more marketable you are, and the more pay you can expect:) Don't take this as a hard and fast rule though. You may find your first job is giving you plenty of challenges, and you are happy with the development of your career. You need to use your judgement. I believe it is important particularly in the beginning to work with people who know a great deal more than you. If you think you know as much as anyone else in the place, first check your ego ;), then consider moving on. If you have stopped learning, you are wasting your time. This is just advice based on my own experience. I have found in the years I have left my first job I have moved around a bit and learned a great deal. I am interested in what others have to say on their experience! Leedrick
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Two offers for me, a postgraduate student, with much, but mostly part-time project experience. One is a big international telecom company and the other is a very small Computer Vision company. I studied Computer Vision during my postgraduate program and I did fairly well on this subject. I can't figure out the pros and cons. Computer Vision is what I love, but telecom sounds not bad, too. And the experience in a big company means more good-looking CV, but a small company may offer a better chance for promotion... What do you guys think about this?
A small company working in an exciting field like that should be a fun and rewarding experience. Hopefully the management knows what they're doing and can keep it interesting and progressive so that people aren't getting laid off and the company grows. The cool thing with a job like that is that you gain experience in the field you enjoy working in, so that even if you decide to leave that company or it shuts down or something, you can use that experience to hopefully still continue working in the field you enjoy at another company. Also, in a small company, you will probably end up having more interaction with the people that are or will be using your products. Getting to see people actually make use of what you made is fun, as long as you made it well and they like using it. For me at least, that's a bigger reward than the money I get for making something...although I'm not offering to give away my money, I still need that too. ;P
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Wow, this seems to be a great place for advice... May I ask why you wouldn't recommend staying in the first job for too long? Thanks! Chip
After more than a few years in any position one becomes comfortable -- too comfortable -- and the rate of learning drastically slows. The people I have seen stay many years in a position start to stagnate, and they begin to lose the ability to cope with new technologies and situations. Working in tech is like living on the African savannah -- movement means survival, and if you stay still you're dead (professionally). The sad thing is it is often in an employer's interest to keep people in one place: the company gets an expert in a narrow area, and the employee finds it harder and harder to leave. Good for the employer, bad for the employee. Don't fall into this trap. It is not that the employer is intentionally bad, it is just that companies put their best interests ahead of yours. In your first position out of school all of the above is doubly applicable. In your first position you will think that how your organization does things is the only way to do them, and you don't have the breadth of experience deeply understand that every organization does some things well and others not so well. Early in a career you need breadth of knowledge: learn diverse technologies, different ways of solving problems, different ways of organization people, different processes. Expposure to different ways of operating is the only way for you to decide what you believe in. Realistically the only way to develop this is to work in several companies early on.
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Two offers for me, a postgraduate student, with much, but mostly part-time project experience. One is a big international telecom company and the other is a very small Computer Vision company. I studied Computer Vision during my postgraduate program and I did fairly well on this subject. I can't figure out the pros and cons. Computer Vision is what I love, but telecom sounds not bad, too. And the experience in a big company means more good-looking CV, but a small company may offer a better chance for promotion... What do you guys think about this?
I agree with most of the respondees that you should take the job that you would like (love) the best. I'm probably in the minority in that my best job ever what at a large retail company that, unfortunately, went bankrupt. And, my worst jobs were at small companies, but I have had some very good experience with small companies as well. BTW, I have been in the business 20 years and have worked directly or indirectly (consultant) and over a dozen different companies. The major difference between "big" and "small" is in the "range" of experience. Like restaurants, you'll rarely get a bad pizza at a Pizza Hut, but you'll rarely get a great one either. A small "ma and pa" pizza joint may have the pizza in the world or it may taste like the box. In other words, a big company is "safe" but the small company can deliver rewards for the risk. Another factor to consider, especially if you are planning to work in the USA, is benefits. Benefits like 401Ks, health plans, etc. are generally better at larger companies due to their better negotiating power and more resources. But, of course, that won't make up for a stinky job. IMHO, both types of companies can be good or bad, it depends on the individual company and what they want you to do. Good luck! Andrew C. Eisenberg Nashville, TN, USA