My Weekend -- book reading
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Just to be clear I think the Da Vinci Code is a pile of crap. But it is still fiction and should be taken as such. If one more person tells me how shocked they were about the Christian faith after having read the Da Vinci Code I am going to freaking explode. regards, Paul Watson Ireland Feed Henry!
eh, stop bugging me about it, give it a couple of days, see what happens.
Paul Watson wrote:
how shocked they were
I've had lots of people recommend it, but none have changed faith or complained about it either. I have yet to actually read it, too busy reading C# and Design Pattern books. ;) I will admit to a fondness for "hard science fiction" which is a very popular style in an extremely small group of people. The concept involves laying out a strong foundation in science then projecting the technology forward through logical means. It is still fiction since any projection of a technology into the future is pure guesswork whether the writing is done by a nuclear engineer or an english school teacher, either could still be "possible." But the preponderance of science thrown in on hard science fiction leaves many readers in the cold, but me begging for more -- both probably because most of the writers are engineers prior writing. All in all, it simply defines the style of writing, and the reader's esoteric tastes. However, no matter how much I enjoy James P. Hogan, I have never once tried to check his facts on gravity drive propulsion.... :rolleyes: _________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
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Just to be clear I think the Da Vinci Code is a pile of crap. But it is still fiction and should be taken as such. If one more person tells me how shocked they were about the Christian faith after having read the Da Vinci Code I am going to freaking explode. regards, Paul Watson Ireland Feed Henry!
eh, stop bugging me about it, give it a couple of days, see what happens.
Although I'm not a big fan of religion and neither aspects holds much water with me, I can see how creating this story can help cause a rift in religion. Yes, It was you who made me see the truth -- that it is not the myth that bolster belief in Kahless, but rather the idea of Kahless that bolsters belief in the myths. Here's the right quote: Kahless has been dead for a thousand years... but the idea of Kahless is still alive. Have you ever fought an idea, Picard? It has no weapon to destroy, no body to kill. The idea of Kahless' return must be stopped here. Now. Or it will travel through the Empire like a wave... and leave nothing but destruction behind. "If only one person knows the truth, it is still the truth." - Mahatma Gandhi Web - Blog - RSS - Math -- modified at 10:41 Monday 24th April, 2006
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Jeffry J. Brickley wrote:
I hope you are also checking the facts on the Harry Potter books...
Do they claim to be based on facts?
"Let us be thankful for the fools. But for them the rest of us could not succeed." - Mark Twain
"We will be known forever by the tracks we leave." - Native American Proverb
DavidCrow wrote:
Do they claim to be based on facts?
The churches believe so, that is why they consider the books so dangerous. _________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
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I may not agree with all of the alarmists out there, but, as for this book, there have been a number of episodes on television that purport that the events in the book are not fiction, but are based on fact. That then, is why the fact checking is done.
Tim Carmichael wrote:
there have been a number of episodes on television that purport that the events in the book are not fiction
Oh well... that means it must be true! :doh: Sorry, even when I see it on Numbers, when it crossed into my territory I was correcting the math and they have a few experts helping them. The problems is that you keep your experts to a minimum for costs, you just can't afford to bring in a specialist for every single TV episode, so even a show based on science strays exponentially based on the distance from the experts' primary fields of expertise. _________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
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Jeffry J. Brickley wrote:
I hope you are also checking the facts on the Harry Potter books...
Do they claim to be based on facts?
"Let us be thankful for the fools. But for them the rest of us could not succeed." - Mark Twain
"We will be known forever by the tracks we leave." - Native American Proverb
DavidCrow wrote:
Do they claim to be based on facts?
I decided to grab you an example you could handle.... James P. Hogan wrote a book called The Proteus Operation. Set in post WWII with the "other" side winning, a team of scientists send a desperate mission back to change the result of the war, hopefully for the better. It is strongly based on historical facts involving WWII, it is simply not ALL facts, and certainly not the entire premise. The end result is our world with our history, so more events are factual "after" the mission is begun. But how the events were changed assumes the events were changed, which is the fictional part -- entertainment. Even then to "sew" the facts together since details are lost to time, there is fictional "glitter" attached to real events, it is still entertainment. The key word is "based on facts" that doesn't mean non-fiction in any remote sense. It means that somewhere in the miles of black and white text a few things are true to give the reader a sense of understanding (a person ... did exist, a book ... was written), fuel to curiosity and imagination. It is a writing style, it does not make it non-fiction. _________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
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I had been wanting to read DaVinci Code for a long time but just didn't have the motivation (just no time that's all). But now the movie release getting closer and closer, last Thursday I decided to get the book and read it. So I did. Whew. Setting aside religious preferences (I'm Hindu -- just if anyone curious), I thought it was an amazing novel. Brown did a fantastic job depicting the details for the characters, places, architectures, his surroundings, the moods, thinking process etc. Now that I've read the book, the movie will not be as much fun unless Ron Howard decides to throw more twists & turns into the story line. Anyways, I read Angels and Demons last year and I found that much more fascinating than Da Vinci Code. Having read Angels and Demon the climax of Da Vinci Code was much more predictable. :( I wished either I had read A&D after DVC or DanBrown should've tried harder on climax for DVC! Oh and also, they're shooting Spiderman 3 right out side my apartment/work building so I had fun watching the filming. The six minute scene for which they've blocked streets of Cleveland downtown for 2 weeks will seem lot more glamourous in theatre than in reality :) . NBC News on filming[^] - Malhar
I read it 2 weekends ago. Found it entertaining, but I don't really see what all the hype is about. To treat your facts with imagination is one thing, but to imagine your facts is another. - John Burroughs
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malharone wrote:
Brown did a fantastic job depicting the details for the characters, places, architectures, his surroundings, the moods, thinking process etc.
If you do not take into account that his depiction of the Christian faith is flawed. See here for Kennedy's fact-checking video.
"Let us be thankful for the fools. But for them the rest of us could not succeed." - Mark Twain
"We will be known forever by the tracks we leave." - Native American Proverb
DavidCrow wrote:
If you do not take into account that his depiction of the Christian faith is flawed.
For crying out loud, IT'S A NOVEL! It's like complaining that The Golden Child isn't an accurate portrayal of Buddhism. :rolleyes:
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DaVinci Code is a pretty good read. But, I'm with Paul on it. It's fiction and a good story. If you try to read more than that into it, well you probably sufffer from lots of other delusions as well. :) For any math nuts, I just started this[^] one on the weekend. It's a pretty good read as well. [EDIT] How did I hijack all the threads from above. :confused: :confused: ?? Chris Meech I am Canadian. [heard in a local bar] When I want privacy, I'll close the bathroom door. [Stan Shannon] GOOD DAY FOR: Moonlighting, as porn star Savanna Samson has launched her own wine label. Her Sogno Uno, an Italian red, received an "outstanding" 90 to 91 score from influential wine critic Robert Parker. "I wanted to do something my parents could be proud of," she said. (Reuters in CNNMoney.com) -- modified at 10:11 Monday 24th April, 2006
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I had been wanting to read DaVinci Code for a long time but just didn't have the motivation (just no time that's all). But now the movie release getting closer and closer, last Thursday I decided to get the book and read it. So I did. Whew. Setting aside religious preferences (I'm Hindu -- just if anyone curious), I thought it was an amazing novel. Brown did a fantastic job depicting the details for the characters, places, architectures, his surroundings, the moods, thinking process etc. Now that I've read the book, the movie will not be as much fun unless Ron Howard decides to throw more twists & turns into the story line. Anyways, I read Angels and Demons last year and I found that much more fascinating than Da Vinci Code. Having read Angels and Demon the climax of Da Vinci Code was much more predictable. :( I wished either I had read A&D after DVC or DanBrown should've tried harder on climax for DVC! Oh and also, they're shooting Spiderman 3 right out side my apartment/work building so I had fun watching the filming. The six minute scene for which they've blocked streets of Cleveland downtown for 2 weeks will seem lot more glamourous in theatre than in reality :) . NBC News on filming[^] - Malhar
I listened to The DaVinci Code on CD a few years back, and thought it was OK. It was a decent story, with decent writing. It was very marketable given the storyline. I recently finished Deception Point, also by Brown, and was considerably underwhelmed by his authoring skills. I think his style is well suited to be transferred to film. His characters aren't interesting or very deep, but the plot and storyline moves ahead and a fast enough pace not to matter. BW
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
-- Steven Wright-- modified at 11:57 Monday 24th April, 2006
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DavidCrow wrote:
If you do not take into account that his depiction of the Christian faith is flawed.
For crying out loud, IT'S A NOVEL! It's like complaining that The Golden Child isn't an accurate portrayal of Buddhism. :rolleyes:
viaduct wrote:
The Golden Child isn't an accurate portrayal of Buddhism.
:omg: it isn't??? :rolleyes: :rolleyes: I am completely kidding... if the smileys were not sufficient indication... _________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
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DavidCrow wrote:
If you do not take into account that his depiction of the Christian faith is flawed.
For crying out loud, IT'S A NOVEL! It's like complaining that The Golden Child isn't an accurate portrayal of Buddhism. :rolleyes:
:confused: It isn't? BW
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
-- Steven Wright -
viaduct wrote:
The Golden Child isn't an accurate portrayal of Buddhism.
:omg: it isn't??? :rolleyes: :rolleyes: I am completely kidding... if the smileys were not sufficient indication... _________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
beat me to it. :) BW
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
-- Steven Wright -
:confused: It isn't? BW
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
-- Steven WrightLOL
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Just to be clear I think the Da Vinci Code is a pile of crap. But it is still fiction and should be taken as such. If one more person tells me how shocked they were about the Christian faith after having read the Da Vinci Code I am going to freaking explode. regards, Paul Watson Ireland Feed Henry!
eh, stop bugging me about it, give it a couple of days, see what happens.
Basing your knowledge of Christianity on this novel is like assuming Heinlien's novel Stranger in a Strange Land is a biography. Never the less, I get a kick out of supposedly good Christians getting upset about this book's portrayal of their 'faith'. Just how rock solid are these complainer's faith? When I'm feeling a bit mischievous during a conversation with a Christian zealot I've been known to preface a comment with, "...in the novel The Da Vinci Code..." just to watch them change colors. ;) Pictures of the menu available at the drive-thru
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beat me to it. :) BW
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
-- Steven Wrightbrianwelsch wrote:
beat me to it.
It isn't a race.... :laugh: neener neener neener... ;P _________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
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I may not agree with all of the alarmists out there, but, as for this book, there have been a number of episodes on television that purport that the events in the book are not fiction, but are based on fact. That then, is why the fact checking is done.
The only fact I would've needed was that it was television...a medium of communication that makes the Hearst style of yellow journalism read like a dictionary. Pictures of the menu available at the drive-thru
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DavidCrow wrote:
If you do not take into account that his depiction of the Christian faith is flawed.
For crying out loud, IT'S A NOVEL! It's like complaining that The Golden Child isn't an accurate portrayal of Buddhism. :rolleyes:
viaduct wrote:
For crying out loud, IT'S A NOVEL!
I understand that, but Mr. Brown makes the statement that his novel is based on facts. It's just that his 'facts' cannot be substantiated by anyone. Therein lies the difference.
"Let us be thankful for the fools. But for them the rest of us could not succeed." - Mark Twain
"We will be known forever by the tracks we leave." - Native American Proverb
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Paul Watson wrote:
how shocked they were
I've had lots of people recommend it, but none have changed faith or complained about it either. I have yet to actually read it, too busy reading C# and Design Pattern books. ;) I will admit to a fondness for "hard science fiction" which is a very popular style in an extremely small group of people. The concept involves laying out a strong foundation in science then projecting the technology forward through logical means. It is still fiction since any projection of a technology into the future is pure guesswork whether the writing is done by a nuclear engineer or an english school teacher, either could still be "possible." But the preponderance of science thrown in on hard science fiction leaves many readers in the cold, but me begging for more -- both probably because most of the writers are engineers prior writing. All in all, it simply defines the style of writing, and the reader's esoteric tastes. However, no matter how much I enjoy James P. Hogan, I have never once tried to check his facts on gravity drive propulsion.... :rolleyes: _________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
Jeffry J. Brickley wrote:
James P. Hogan
Or Robert Forward, Gregory Benford, Ben Bova, ... :cool:
Software Zen:
delete this; -
viaduct wrote:
For crying out loud, IT'S A NOVEL!
I understand that, but Mr. Brown makes the statement that his novel is based on facts. It's just that his 'facts' cannot be substantiated by anyone. Therein lies the difference.
"Let us be thankful for the fools. But for them the rest of us could not succeed." - Mark Twain
"We will be known forever by the tracks we leave." - Native American Proverb
DavidCrow wrote:
that his novel is based on facts.
Using historical figures, people that really did exist is all the requirements for "based on facts". You are making the exact same assumption as the people loosing faith, that "based on facts" means the "majority are facts," or even the substance is the facts. The substance, the plot, may have absolutely nothing to do with facts (and rarely does in "based on" type literature), but in using historical figures and events, but changing motivations or back-story related to events it is still "based on facts" but is still massively fiction. Taking real people, real events, and providing 100% fictional backstory is extremely common in fiction. I have not read this particular novel, but from what I gather it uses historical people and places and occasional events, with complete fictional interleaving with a completely fictional plot. When this is used in fiction the goal is to make the fiction seem as "real" as any facts, that is a sign of a good writer. As much as I like hard science-fiction, I don't care for this in other fiction genres which is why I have not read it yet. A poor writer would craft this so it was easy to tell fact from fiction. I am not sure if you are complaining that the writer is too good or that you prefer bad authors? Reading a quick synopsis, they refer the plot concept to "national treasure" which copy-cats the plot elements with a change of characters and backstory. Similarly with that since it used real people, real objects, real-events, but interleaving them with a fictional backstory, one can "legally" say "based on facts" which is all that is necessary. But it is still complete fiction. Just because the liberty bell exists and Ben Franklin wore glasses does not make the movie "national treasure" suddenly non-fiction. All the hub-bub has just generated more interest in the book. So if anyone is to be given credit for this book being popular, it is the controversy and free publicity. So pat yourself on the back, you and all the others making the fuss are the ones that guarenteed he got a movie deal from what I gather is "clumsy prose." I think I got enough out of the synopsis though, I'll pass on reading it myself. _________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
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DavidCrow wrote:
that his novel is based on facts.
Using historical figures, people that really did exist is all the requirements for "based on facts". You are making the exact same assumption as the people loosing faith, that "based on facts" means the "majority are facts," or even the substance is the facts. The substance, the plot, may have absolutely nothing to do with facts (and rarely does in "based on" type literature), but in using historical figures and events, but changing motivations or back-story related to events it is still "based on facts" but is still massively fiction. Taking real people, real events, and providing 100% fictional backstory is extremely common in fiction. I have not read this particular novel, but from what I gather it uses historical people and places and occasional events, with complete fictional interleaving with a completely fictional plot. When this is used in fiction the goal is to make the fiction seem as "real" as any facts, that is a sign of a good writer. As much as I like hard science-fiction, I don't care for this in other fiction genres which is why I have not read it yet. A poor writer would craft this so it was easy to tell fact from fiction. I am not sure if you are complaining that the writer is too good or that you prefer bad authors? Reading a quick synopsis, they refer the plot concept to "national treasure" which copy-cats the plot elements with a change of characters and backstory. Similarly with that since it used real people, real objects, real-events, but interleaving them with a fictional backstory, one can "legally" say "based on facts" which is all that is necessary. But it is still complete fiction. Just because the liberty bell exists and Ben Franklin wore glasses does not make the movie "national treasure" suddenly non-fiction. All the hub-bub has just generated more interest in the book. So if anyone is to be given credit for this book being popular, it is the controversy and free publicity. So pat yourself on the back, you and all the others making the fuss are the ones that guarenteed he got a movie deal from what I gather is "clumsy prose." I think I got enough out of the synopsis though, I'll pass on reading it myself. _________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
The book clearly states that: 1) the New Testament is false testimony; 2) the doctrine that Jesus' divinity was created by Constantine in the fourth century; 3) Jesus was married to Mary Magdalene; 4) The Last Supper included Mary Magdalene instead of John; 5) The Gnostic gospels teach "sacred feminine"; 6) the Priory of Sion was created in 1099 by Knights Templar. None of these are even remotely based on facts. There are so many errors in the novel that one has to wonder if Brown did any fact-checking at all. The problem I have with this is that folks will come away from reading the novel and viewing the movie and think that this is what Christianity is all about.
"Let us be thankful for the fools. But for them the rest of us could not succeed." - Mark Twain
"We will be known forever by the tracks we leave." - Native American Proverb