What is the value of money?
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The value of money is determined by the value that another person places on it. In other words, you can view it as a great big circle jerk. Or you can view it as a chaotic system, in which commerce takes place in a stable node. Though occasionally the system goes through a chaotic transition into another stable node. You should ask this question in the SB, BTW. :) Marc Pensieve Some people believe what the bible says. Literally. At least [with Wikipedia] you have the chance to correct the wiki -- Jörgen Sigvardsson -- modified at 21:31 Saturday 29th April, 2006
[edit] learn to reply to the correct post, Peter[/edit]
Some of us walk the memory lane, others plummet into a rabbit hole
Tree in C# || Fold With Us! || sighist -- modified at 2:53 Sunday 30th April, 2006 -
Marc Clifton wrote:
The value of money is determined by the value that another person places on it.
Not really. If a milk carton's price is $1, then that's what you have to pay for it. It doesn't matter if I value my $1 bills higher than its printed value. :)
Marc Clifton wrote:
You should ask this question in the SB, BTW.
It's not that controversial, is it? :~ I'm just trying to ask a philosophical question. There's no need for foul language, or anything like that, on this topic, right? :) I can see the value in trading services and/or products for other services and/or products - there's value. But the piece of paper is valuable... how exactly?
It's an average. When you buy the milk for $1 you throw your vote that the milk is worth at least $1. When you don't, you vote that it's to much. And it's built on mutual trust. When you did shovel that five tons of coal into the basement and the old hag gave you $1 for it, you trusted that someone will give you one pack milk for it. And you threw another vote: shoveling 5 tons of coal is worth $1. The trust is mutual, because the milkman trusts that he will get a nice wedding ring for that $1 so he can propose to the beautiful daughter of the old hag. That's what THEY say. I still believe monney is dah dehvil. P.S. I saved you reading 50.000 pages of Ayn Rand, that makes $1 please
Some of us walk the memory lane, others plummet into a rabbit hole
Tree in C# || Fold With Us! || sighist -- modified at 11:26 Sunday 30th April, 2006 -
Marc Clifton wrote:
The value of money is determined by the value that another person places on it.
Not really. If a milk carton's price is $1, then that's what you have to pay for it. It doesn't matter if I value my $1 bills higher than its printed value. :)
Marc Clifton wrote:
You should ask this question in the SB, BTW.
It's not that controversial, is it? :~ I'm just trying to ask a philosophical question. There's no need for foul language, or anything like that, on this topic, right? :) I can see the value in trading services and/or products for other services and/or products - there's value. But the piece of paper is valuable... how exactly?
Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote:
It's not that controversial, is it? I'm just trying to ask a philosophical question. There's no need for foul language, or anything like that, on this topic, right?
I think Marc was pining for a more a more colorful conversation; he seems to be having a bad month. :)
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[edit] learn to reply to the correct post, Peter[/edit]
Some of us walk the memory lane, others plummet into a rabbit hole
Tree in C# || Fold With Us! || sighist -- modified at 2:53 Sunday 30th April, 2006peterchen wrote:
learn to reply to the correct post, Peter
Huh?! :doh: Is there another "Peter"?! :~
Maxwell Chen
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peterchen wrote:
learn to reply to the correct post, Peter
Huh?! :doh: Is there another "Peter"?! :~
Maxwell Chen
Maxwell Chen wrote:
Is there another "Peter"?!
peterchen was talking to himself.. :-) -- modified at 4:52 Sunday 30th April, 2006
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Maxwell Chen wrote:
Is there another "Peter"?!
peterchen was talking to himself.. :-) -- modified at 4:52 Sunday 30th April, 2006
Agnihothra wrote:
peterchen was talking to himself..
Are you sure? He used to correct others' calling him "Peter Chen" ... :rolleyes:
Maxwell Chen
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The real value, not the stuff you can buy for it (which could theoretically be built by yourself, for free). Even if the currency is backed by gold, what is the value of that?
I would describe it as "Basic work hours", i.e. number of hours required to produce a unit of value. The tigress is here :-D
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The real value, not the stuff you can buy for it (which could theoretically be built by yourself, for free). Even if the currency is backed by gold, what is the value of that?
Money has no intrinic value outside of the instant of exchange - stored money is just potential exchange.* * My bank manager tends to disagree '--8<------------------------ Ex Datis: Duncan Jones Merrion Computing Ltd
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Marc Clifton wrote:
The value of money is determined by the value that another person places on it.
Not really. If a milk carton's price is $1, then that's what you have to pay for it. It doesn't matter if I value my $1 bills higher than its printed value. :)
Marc Clifton wrote:
You should ask this question in the SB, BTW.
It's not that controversial, is it? :~ I'm just trying to ask a philosophical question. There's no need for foul language, or anything like that, on this topic, right? :) I can see the value in trading services and/or products for other services and/or products - there's value. But the piece of paper is valuable... how exactly?
Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote:
If a milk carton's price is $1, then that's what you have to pay for it. It doesn't matter if I value my $1 bills higher than its printed value.
Maybe I didn't say it right. If a milk carton's price is $1, that's because the person selling it for $1 in paper money determines that that $1 can be used elsewhere for something of similar value. And that's because that next person feels that the value carries forward to whatever they need. So the value of money, to paraphrase William Gibson, is "a consensual valuazation experienced daily by billions of consumers in every nation". (his original quote, if you're curious, is a definition of cyberspace "a consensual hallucination experienced daily by billions of legitimate operators, in every nation.")
Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote:
It's not that controversial, is it?
No, it's not controversial, but there are people that never seem to frequent the lounge whom I feel would have some better insights into your question than I, and certainly some more interesting responses. I think it would lead to a much more interesting discussion. Marc Pensieve Some people believe what the bible says. Literally. At least [with Wikipedia] you have the chance to correct the wiki -- Jörgen Sigvardsson
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Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote:
It's not that controversial, is it? I'm just trying to ask a philosophical question. There's no need for foul language, or anything like that, on this topic, right?
I think Marc was pining for a more a more colorful conversation; he seems to be having a bad month. :)
S Douglas wrote:
I think Marc was pining for a more a more colorful conversation; he seems to be having a bad month.
harhar. No, it's because people like Stan would have insightful answers, and since they don't frequent the lounge very often... Marc Pensieve Some people believe what the bible says. Literally. At least [with Wikipedia] you have the chance to correct the wiki -- Jörgen Sigvardsson
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Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote:
If a milk carton's price is $1, then that's what you have to pay for it. It doesn't matter if I value my $1 bills higher than its printed value.
Maybe I didn't say it right. If a milk carton's price is $1, that's because the person selling it for $1 in paper money determines that that $1 can be used elsewhere for something of similar value. And that's because that next person feels that the value carries forward to whatever they need. So the value of money, to paraphrase William Gibson, is "a consensual valuazation experienced daily by billions of consumers in every nation". (his original quote, if you're curious, is a definition of cyberspace "a consensual hallucination experienced daily by billions of legitimate operators, in every nation.")
Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote:
It's not that controversial, is it?
No, it's not controversial, but there are people that never seem to frequent the lounge whom I feel would have some better insights into your question than I, and certainly some more interesting responses. I think it would lead to a much more interesting discussion. Marc Pensieve Some people believe what the bible says. Literally. At least [with Wikipedia] you have the chance to correct the wiki -- Jörgen Sigvardsson
Marc Clifton wrote:
Maybe I didn't say it right. ...
That's sort of the point. Currencies have gone from being "real" values (for a cow hide, you'd get something real), to being "virtual". Instead of actually trading gold, we're trading weight measurements of arbitrary gold lumps. This is not even the case today with most currencies.
Marc Clifton wrote:
I think it would lead to a much more interesting discussion.
By all means, please do use your magical powers! (You can move threads, can't you? After all, you have the shield icon next to your name ;))
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Agnihothra wrote:
peterchen was talking to himself..
Are you sure? He used to correct others' calling him "Peter Chen" ... :rolleyes:
Maxwell Chen
AFAIK, while he is NOT 'Peter Chen', Peter IS his first name...
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The real value, not the stuff you can buy for it (which could theoretically be built by yourself, for free). Even if the currency is backed by gold, what is the value of that?
The value of money is that it saves you time and effort. As you stated you can, in theory anyway, build things yourself. Let's say a chair. You could chisel a rock down, and tie it to sturdy branch with some wet vines or maybe even leather. The go chop down a tree, create the pieces needed to build the chair, and maybe a week later, you could finally sit down and relax. Alternately, you could get some money and buy a chair already made. Having money, also allows you to have things without needing the skill or resources to actually make them. You can then involve yourself more in things that interest you. BW
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
-- Steven Wright -
AFAIK, while he is NOT 'Peter Chen', Peter IS his first name...
Agnihothra wrote:
while he is NOT 'Peter Chen', Peter IS his first name
I am getting even confused... :~ 2006-04-12[^] 2005-05-13[^]
Maxwell Chen
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Agnihothra wrote:
while he is NOT 'Peter Chen', Peter IS his first name
I am getting even confused... :~ 2006-04-12[^] 2005-05-13[^]
Maxwell Chen
I'm not sure, but I think "-chen" is german word play. If you add -chen as a suffix to a noun, you add a diminutive attribute to the noun. -lein is also such a suffix, although -chen is more common.
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Agnihothra wrote:
while he is NOT 'Peter Chen', Peter IS his first name
I am getting even confused... :~ 2006-04-12[^] 2005-05-13[^]
Maxwell Chen
I could be way off on this, but from what I understand, *chen can added to names or nicknames in German to make them endearing or sort of cute. My guess is Peter was called peterchen by close friends or family when he was growing up. My sister's name is Christina, our uncle gave her the nickname Stienchen, I was Pilawilchen (after a some duck in a story I think). BW
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
-- Steven Wright -
I'm not sure, but I think "-chen" is german word play. If you add -chen as a suffix to a noun, you add a diminutive attribute to the noun. -lein is also such a suffix, although -chen is more common.
Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote:
If you add -chen as a suffix to a noun, you add a diminutive attribute to the noun.
Just like -ette in French / old English ... Thus, peterchen stands for "little Peter" ?! ;)
Maxwell Chen
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I could be way off on this, but from what I understand, *chen can added to names or nicknames in German to make them endearing or sort of cute. My guess is Peter was called peterchen by close friends or family when he was growing up. My sister's name is Christina, our uncle gave her the nickname Stienchen, I was Pilawilchen (after a some duck in a story I think). BW
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
-- Steven WrightThanks! For your information: As you know that I am Chinese, "Chen" is my family name. The spelling Chen is from the pronunciation. The meaning of this chinese character word, "chen", stands for
old.
Maxwell Chen
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Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote:
If you add -chen as a suffix to a noun, you add a diminutive attribute to the noun.
Just like -ette in French / old English ... Thus, peterchen stands for "little Peter" ?! ;)
Maxwell Chen
:laugh: BW
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
-- Steven Wright -
Thanks! For your information: As you know that I am Chinese, "Chen" is my family name. The spelling Chen is from the pronunciation. The meaning of this chinese character word, "chen", stands for
old.
Maxwell Chen
Maxwell Chen wrote:
"chen", stands for old
:cool: I think my family name Welsch, can be traced back to be used to refer to "foreigners" centuries ago in "Germany". They used the term "Welsche", among others. Not 100% sure that's where the name comes from, but it plausible. BW
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
-- Steven Wright