Dear US Americans: I don't get it
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I understand the intention, but aside from this, why is it wrong to sing the US American anthem in a different language? It is the same meaning. Please explain: Is it only that you are pissed off by mexican immigrants, or is there somethign fundamentally "sacred" to the anthem that bans translation? [edit] voted down for a question. Nice. [/edit]
Some of us walk the memory lane, others plummet into a rabbit hole
Tree in C# || Fold With Us! || sighist -- modified at 7:09 Monday 1st May, 2006 -
I understand the intention, but aside from this, why is it wrong to sing the US American anthem in a different language? It is the same meaning. Please explain: Is it only that you are pissed off by mexican immigrants, or is there somethign fundamentally "sacred" to the anthem that bans translation? [edit] voted down for a question. Nice. [/edit]
Some of us walk the memory lane, others plummet into a rabbit hole
Tree in C# || Fold With Us! || sighist -- modified at 7:09 Monday 1st May, 2006peterchen wrote:
why is it wrong to sing the US American anthem in a different language?
I am not US American nor Mexican, thus I have no idea about the fact. Let's think about this issue in the view of the art. Back to the music history during the time before Mozart, opera had been considered only Italian privileged. Even at the 1st time when Mozart was trying to compose his 1st German opera, people criticized that way as vulgar ... --- * * * * * * * * * * --- Here's another case in my place. I live in Taiwan[^] (many CPians here may have no idea where Taiwan is). There are some languages being used at this small places:
1) Mandarin (the majority, and official),
2) South-Fukien dialect (also the majority, but not official language),
3) Hakka language,
4) 14 languages of the aborigines.The military schools were all established 100 years ago when the government was still in the mainland China. Therefore all the military songs were all composed in the language Mandarin. Now there came the trend for localization to glory the spirit of Taiwan, at least those politicians hope so. They are planning to revise most of the military songs from Mandarin to South-Fukien dialect and the other languages. It just sounds quirky and difficult to sing. :->
Maxwell Chen
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I understand the intention, but aside from this, why is it wrong to sing the US American anthem in a different language? It is the same meaning. Please explain: Is it only that you are pissed off by mexican immigrants, or is there somethign fundamentally "sacred" to the anthem that bans translation? [edit] voted down for a question. Nice. [/edit]
Some of us walk the memory lane, others plummet into a rabbit hole
Tree in C# || Fold With Us! || sighist -- modified at 7:09 Monday 1st May, 2006Because the translation frequently requires changing words to maintain the rhyme and rythm of the song. When the words change, the song doesn't mean the same thing. Anyone remember whey Rosanne Barr flubbed the words when she sang the anthem at a baseball game? The country, as a whole, pretty much boycotted anything else she's done on TV. ------- sig starts "Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt "...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001
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Because the translation frequently requires changing words to maintain the rhyme and rythm of the song. When the words change, the song doesn't mean the same thing. Anyone remember whey Rosanne Barr flubbed the words when she sang the anthem at a baseball game? The country, as a whole, pretty much boycotted anything else she's done on TV. ------- sig starts "Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt "...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001
OK, some questions 1. Are you annoyed ? 2. Have you checked the translation to see if this is a decent reason to be annoyed ? 3. Would you be as annoyed if it was being sung in German ? Italian ? Any other language not spoken by people just south of you ? :-) Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++
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Because the translation frequently requires changing words to maintain the rhyme and rythm of the song. When the words change, the song doesn't mean the same thing. Anyone remember whey Rosanne Barr flubbed the words when she sang the anthem at a baseball game? The country, as a whole, pretty much boycotted anything else she's done on TV. ------- sig starts "Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt "...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001
Interestingly I was at a sports event between Scotland and the USA. The Flower of Scotland was played - the stadium roared in to song (not surprising since this was in Edinburgh). The Star Spangled Banner was played and (despite finding myself in a section full of Americans) they got as far as the first line then stopped while the band continued on. There was no excuse as the lyrics were printed in the programme. So, I would suggest boycotting someone for having "flubbed the words" to be an act of extreme hypocracy.
"On two occasions, I have been asked [by members of Parliament], 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out?' I am not able to rightly apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question." --Charles Babbage (1791-1871) My: Website | Blog
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Interestingly I was at a sports event between Scotland and the USA. The Flower of Scotland was played - the stadium roared in to song (not surprising since this was in Edinburgh). The Star Spangled Banner was played and (despite finding myself in a section full of Americans) they got as far as the first line then stopped while the band continued on. There was no excuse as the lyrics were printed in the programme. So, I would suggest boycotting someone for having "flubbed the words" to be an act of extreme hypocracy.
"On two occasions, I have been asked [by members of Parliament], 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out?' I am not able to rightly apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question." --Charles Babbage (1791-1871) My: Website | Blog
Uhhh, she did more than just flub the words. She grabbed her crotch and spit after she was done fucking up the song. ------- sig starts "Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt "...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001
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I understand the intention, but aside from this, why is it wrong to sing the US American anthem in a different language? It is the same meaning. Please explain: Is it only that you are pissed off by mexican immigrants, or is there somethign fundamentally "sacred" to the anthem that bans translation? [edit] voted down for a question. Nice. [/edit]
Some of us walk the memory lane, others plummet into a rabbit hole
Tree in C# || Fold With Us! || sighist -- modified at 7:09 Monday 1st May, 2006Is it ok to sing the French Anthem in English?
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Because the translation frequently requires changing words to maintain the rhyme and rythm of the song. When the words change, the song doesn't mean the same thing. Anyone remember whey Rosanne Barr flubbed the words when she sang the anthem at a baseball game? The country, as a whole, pretty much boycotted anything else she's done on TV. ------- sig starts "Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt "...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001
John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
When the words change, the song doesn't mean the same thing.
61% of Americans do not know the words to the national anthem. Americans have a problem because we don't appreciate it when foreigners come to this country with the intent of maintaining allegiance to their homeland. We're fine if you legally migrate here as long as you do so to become part of our national community. That includes speaking English, respecting our way of life and becoming a productive member of society. Legal aliens do this because that is naturally their intent when they come here as they have actively decided to pursue citizenship. Illegal aliens do not do not due this as they have decided to break our laws to work here while refusing to become Americans. This was made evident in their anti-American march for rights (they have no rights as they're not citizens) in which they waved their native flag while demanding we accept their refusal to accept our way of life. The national anthem in spanish is another example of their disrespect for our nation.
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OK, some questions 1. Are you annoyed ? 2. Have you checked the translation to see if this is a decent reason to be annoyed ? 3. Would you be as annoyed if it was being sung in German ? Italian ? Any other language not spoken by people just south of you ? :-) Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++
Christian Graus wrote:
1. Are you annoyed ? 2. Have you checked the translation to see if this is a decent reason to be annoyed ? 3. Would you be as annoyed if it was being sung in German ? Italian ? Any other language not spoken by people just south of you ?
- No, I'm pissed off. 2) Yes, and they changed the fucking words. 3) If the words are changed, yes. Because of the syntax and grammatic rules of most european languages, they are almost forced to change the words, but I'm not concerned about the shortcomings of their languages. If anyone is interested, here's the whole song, the way it was originally written
_O say, can you see, by the dawn's early light, What so proudly we hailed at the twilight's last gleaming? Whose broad stripes and bright stars, through the perilous fight, O'er the ramparts we watched, were so gallantly streaming! And the rockets' red glare, the bombs bursting in air, Gave proof through the night that our flag was still there: O say, does that star-spangled banner yet wave O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave? On the shore, dimly seen through the mists of the deep, Where the foe's haughty host in dread silence reposes, What is that which the breeze, o'er the towering steep, As it fitfully blows, half conceals, half discloses? Now it catches the gleam of the morning's first beam, In full glory reflected now shines in the stream: Tis the star-spangled banner! O long may it wave O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave! And where is that band who so vauntingly swore That the havoc of war and the battle's confusion A home and a country should leave us no more? Their blood has washed out their foul footsteps' pollution. No refuge could save the hireling and slave From the terror of flight, or the gloom of the grave: And the star-spangled banner in triumph doth wave O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave! Oh! thus be it ever, when freemen shall stand Between their loved homes and the war's desolation! Blest with victory and peace, may the Heaven-rescued land Praise the Power that hath made and preserved us a nation. Then conquer we must, when our cause, it is just, And this be our motto: “In God is our trust.” And the star-spangled banner in triumph shall wave O'er the land of the free and the home_
- No, I'm pissed off. 2) Yes, and they changed the fucking words. 3) If the words are changed, yes. Because of the syntax and grammatic rules of most european languages, they are almost forced to change the words, but I'm not concerned about the shortcomings of their languages. If anyone is interested, here's the whole song, the way it was originally written
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Is it ok to sing the French Anthem in English?
No. But then again, I don't ever recall a movement in France to change the anthem to suit another language, except when the germans are in town with guns and tanks. ------- sig starts "Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt "...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001
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Uhhh, she did more than just flub the words. She grabbed her crotch and spit after she was done fucking up the song. ------- sig starts "Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt "...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001
John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
she did more than just flub the words. She grabbed her crotch and spit after she was done fucking up the song.
Okay - That puts things in a different light.
"On two occasions, I have been asked [by members of Parliament], 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out?' I am not able to rightly apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question." --Charles Babbage (1791-1871) My: Website | Blog
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Christian Graus wrote:
1. Are you annoyed ? 2. Have you checked the translation to see if this is a decent reason to be annoyed ? 3. Would you be as annoyed if it was being sung in German ? Italian ? Any other language not spoken by people just south of you ?
- No, I'm pissed off. 2) Yes, and they changed the fucking words. 3) If the words are changed, yes. Because of the syntax and grammatic rules of most european languages, they are almost forced to change the words, but I'm not concerned about the shortcomings of their languages. If anyone is interested, here's the whole song, the way it was originally written
_O say, can you see, by the dawn's early light, What so proudly we hailed at the twilight's last gleaming? Whose broad stripes and bright stars, through the perilous fight, O'er the ramparts we watched, were so gallantly streaming! And the rockets' red glare, the bombs bursting in air, Gave proof through the night that our flag was still there: O say, does that star-spangled banner yet wave O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave? On the shore, dimly seen through the mists of the deep, Where the foe's haughty host in dread silence reposes, What is that which the breeze, o'er the towering steep, As it fitfully blows, half conceals, half discloses? Now it catches the gleam of the morning's first beam, In full glory reflected now shines in the stream: Tis the star-spangled banner! O long may it wave O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave! And where is that band who so vauntingly swore That the havoc of war and the battle's confusion A home and a country should leave us no more? Their blood has washed out their foul footsteps' pollution. No refuge could save the hireling and slave From the terror of flight, or the gloom of the grave: And the star-spangled banner in triumph doth wave O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave! Oh! thus be it ever, when freemen shall stand Between their loved homes and the war's desolation! Blest with victory and peace, may the Heaven-rescued land Praise the Power that hath made and preserved us a nation. Then conquer we must, when our cause, it is just, And this be our motto: “In God is our trust.” And the star-spangled banner in triumph shall wave O'er the land of the free and the home_
John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
...in step with freedom, (Now is the time to break the chains!) Throughout the night they said: "It will be defended!" Oh say you! Does it still wave, its starred beauty, Over the land of the free, the sacred flag?
Yeah, I can see why people might take offence at that :) Slightly related, the BBC keeps trying to get rid of Land of Hope and Glory from the last night of the proms (Much better than our offical UK anthem) - they want to change: Land of Hope and Glory, Mother of the Free, How shall we extol thee, Who are born of thee? Wider still and wider Shall they bounds be set, God who made thee mighty, Make thee mightier yet! To this PC claptrap: Music and our voices Unite us all as one, Let our sound be mighty, Sung by everyone. Deeper and still deeper Shall our bounds be set Bring our world together Make us closer yet. Which sounds like something off fucking Sesame Street. Ryan
"Michael Moore and Mel Gibson are the same person, except for a few sit-ups. Moore thought his cheesy political blooper reel was going to tell people how to vote. Mel thought that his little gay SM movie about his imaginary friend was going to help him get to heaven." - Penn Jillette
-- modified at 8:57 Monday 1st May, 2006
- No, I'm pissed off. 2) Yes, and they changed the fucking words. 3) If the words are changed, yes. Because of the syntax and grammatic rules of most european languages, they are almost forced to change the words, but I'm not concerned about the shortcomings of their languages. If anyone is interested, here's the whole song, the way it was originally written
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I understand the intention, but aside from this, why is it wrong to sing the US American anthem in a different language? It is the same meaning. Please explain: Is it only that you are pissed off by mexican immigrants, or is there somethign fundamentally "sacred" to the anthem that bans translation? [edit] voted down for a question. Nice. [/edit]
Some of us walk the memory lane, others plummet into a rabbit hole
Tree in C# || Fold With Us! || sighist -- modified at 7:09 Monday 1st May, 2006Is English the official language of the USA ? is it defined in the constitution, or other important law ? or is it only used because "it always been like that" ? In my opinion, the Anthem should be sang ( sing ) in the the official language ( s ) of the country. English for the USA, French for France, German for Germany ... Canada has 2 official languages, so the Anthem should be sang in both languages in official functions; Ihe text was written in French and then translated in English. and in the "rules" of usage : ( Canadian Anthem[^] ) "It is possible to translate the words of the national anthem in languages other than English or French; it should be kept in mind, however, that this translated version will not have an official status." Do you have such official rules and usage for the US or other countries' Anthems ?
Maximilien Lincourt Your Head A Splode - Strong Bad
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Is English the official language of the USA ? is it defined in the constitution, or other important law ? or is it only used because "it always been like that" ? In my opinion, the Anthem should be sang ( sing ) in the the official language ( s ) of the country. English for the USA, French for France, German for Germany ... Canada has 2 official languages, so the Anthem should be sang in both languages in official functions; Ihe text was written in French and then translated in English. and in the "rules" of usage : ( Canadian Anthem[^] ) "It is possible to translate the words of the national anthem in languages other than English or French; it should be kept in mind, however, that this translated version will not have an official status." Do you have such official rules and usage for the US or other countries' Anthems ?
Maximilien Lincourt Your Head A Splode - Strong Bad
No, we have no "official" language. The problem is that politicians are afraid to set English as the national language for fear on angering immigrant groups. IMHO, this is a perfect time to specify English as the official language because the immigrant groups are already pissed off so the politicians have nothing to fear. ------- sig starts "Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt "...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001
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John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
...in step with freedom, (Now is the time to break the chains!) Throughout the night they said: "It will be defended!" Oh say you! Does it still wave, its starred beauty, Over the land of the free, the sacred flag?
Yeah, I can see why people might take offence at that :) Slightly related, the BBC keeps trying to get rid of Land of Hope and Glory from the last night of the proms (Much better than our offical UK anthem) - they want to change: Land of Hope and Glory, Mother of the Free, How shall we extol thee, Who are born of thee? Wider still and wider Shall they bounds be set, God who made thee mighty, Make thee mightier yet! To this PC claptrap: Music and our voices Unite us all as one, Let our sound be mighty, Sung by everyone. Deeper and still deeper Shall our bounds be set Bring our world together Make us closer yet. Which sounds like something off fucking Sesame Street. Ryan
"Michael Moore and Mel Gibson are the same person, except for a few sit-ups. Moore thought his cheesy political blooper reel was going to tell people how to vote. Mel thought that his little gay SM movie about his imaginary friend was going to help him get to heaven." - Penn Jillette
-- modified at 8:57 Monday 1st May, 2006
I bet the same asshole wrote both songs. ------- sig starts "Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt "...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001
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I understand the intention, but aside from this, why is it wrong to sing the US American anthem in a different language? It is the same meaning. Please explain: Is it only that you are pissed off by mexican immigrants, or is there somethign fundamentally "sacred" to the anthem that bans translation? [edit] voted down for a question. Nice. [/edit]
Some of us walk the memory lane, others plummet into a rabbit hole
Tree in C# || Fold With Us! || sighist -- modified at 7:09 Monday 1st May, 2006You should be used to the mindless voting monkeys by now... ------- sig starts "Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt "...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001
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I understand the intention, but aside from this, why is it wrong to sing the US American anthem in a different language? It is the same meaning. Please explain: Is it only that you are pissed off by mexican immigrants, or is there somethign fundamentally "sacred" to the anthem that bans translation? [edit] voted down for a question. Nice. [/edit]
Some of us walk the memory lane, others plummet into a rabbit hole
Tree in C# || Fold With Us! || sighist -- modified at 7:09 Monday 1st May, 2006Just so it's clear, the song is more of a tyraid against the United States because we kicked their asses back across the Rio Grande in 1837. Mexicans, at the cry of battle prepare your swords and bridle; and let the earth tremble at its center at the roar of the cannon. Oh fatherland Your forehead shall be girded with olive garlands, by the divine archangel of peace For in heaven your eternal destiny has been written by the hand of God. But should a foreign enemy dale to profane your land with his sole, Think, beloved fatherland, that heaven gave you a soldier in each son. War, war without truce against who would attempt to blemish the honor of the fatherland! War, war! The patriotic banners drench in waves of blood. War, war! On the mount, in the valley The terrifying thunder of the cannon And the echoes nobly resound to the cries of Union! Liberty! Fatherland, before your children Become unarmed Beneath the yoke their necks in sway, And your countryside be watered with blood, On blood their feet trample. And may your temples, palaces and towers crumble in horrid crash, and ruins remain saying: The fatherland was made of one thousand heroes. Fatherland, fatherland, your children swear to exhale their breath in your cause, If the bugle in its belligerent tone should call upon them to struggle with bravery. For you the olive garlands! For them a memory of glory! For you a laurel of victory! For them a tomb of honor! ------- sig starts "Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt "...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001
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No, we have no "official" language. The problem is that politicians are afraid to set English as the national language for fear on angering immigrant groups. IMHO, this is a perfect time to specify English as the official language because the immigrant groups are already pissed off so the politicians have nothing to fear. ------- sig starts "Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt "...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001
Actually more than half of the 50 states have "official English" laws. There is no Federal law, but if you want to get mad, look up Executive Order 13166 - a little gift from President Clinton. We need to graduate from the ridiculous notion that greed is some kind of elixir for capitalism - it's the downfall of capitalism. Self-interest, maybe, but self-interest run amok does not serve anyone. The core value of conscious capitalism is enlightened self-interest. Patricia Aburdene Bulls make money, bears make money, pigs get slaughtered. Jim Cramer
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I understand the intention, but aside from this, why is it wrong to sing the US American anthem in a different language? It is the same meaning. Please explain: Is it only that you are pissed off by mexican immigrants, or is there somethign fundamentally "sacred" to the anthem that bans translation? [edit] voted down for a question. Nice. [/edit]
Some of us walk the memory lane, others plummet into a rabbit hole
Tree in C# || Fold With Us! || sighist -- modified at 7:09 Monday 1st May, 2006 -
Because the translation frequently requires changing words to maintain the rhyme and rythm of the song. When the words change, the song doesn't mean the same thing. Anyone remember whey Rosanne Barr flubbed the words when she sang the anthem at a baseball game? The country, as a whole, pretty much boycotted anything else she's done on TV. ------- sig starts "Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt "...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001
John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
Anyone remember whey Rosanne Barr flubbed the words when she sang the anthem at a baseball game?
Won't ever forget that disgrace.
John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
The country, as a whole, pretty much boycotted anything else she's done on TV.
Her career went into the shitter after that, and if I recall, it already was going downhill before the sang the anthem. I also recall that the fans at the game justly booed her for it too. PJC -- modified at 11:06 Monday 1st May, 2006
