cant we survive without english
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Why has it not occurred to anyone in the U.S. that outsourcing all our technology (hardware and/or software) to other countries (e.g., India, China) is a National Security Problem; a very serious one at that (Hey! Let's give away the keys to the kingdom. Because that's smart!) Marc, I seriously hope you are mistaken; if "everything" is outsourced to China, then your comment:
Marc Clifton wrote:
China will wipe us both out
could take on all new meaning ... :~
:..::. Douglas H. Troy ::..
Bad Astronomy |Development Blogging|Viksoe.dk's SiteDouglas Troy wrote:
if "everything" is outsourced to China
That's actually a really interesting issue. The gov't has historically been strict (but also stupid) about determining what's a national security interest and what isn't, and hence restricts who works on things, what clearances they have, where they do the work, etc. But let's look at the private sector. I asked my girlfriend's brother who works for a major credit card company, how do you protect your outsourced software? The answer was very interesting--the Indian programmers work on systems that are very very locked down. First of all, they don't store any of the work on their own systems--they basically are controlling a remote system. Second, the file system is completely crippled--you can't read or write anything locally. Third, even doing screenshots or copy-paste to a local app is impossible. So that basically leaves taking pictures of the code with a camera. And to deal with that, the centers that these programmers work in are supposedly highly secured. Now, the funny thing, you and I both know that the reality is probably a bit "different", but who knows, maybe not.
Douglas Troy wrote:
could take on all new meaning ...
It's inevitable. Half the world's population, sooner or later, will not only influence but essentially put the final seal on a global economy, both as consumers and producers. Marc Pensieve Some people believe what the bible says. Literally. At least [with Wikipedia] you have the chance to correct the wiki -- Jörgen Sigvardsson
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I thought it was universally accepted that George Bush is a power-hungry wanker. ------- sig starts "Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt "...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001
idiot, not wanker. With all that alcohol the first thing to go is the beam support.
Some of us walk the memory lane, others plummet into a rabbit hole
Tree in C# || Fold With Us! || sighist -
My dear planetmates, its high time for all the nations to sit together to invent a language which is acceptable by everyone as global language Really,life is getting miserable without english.In india its becoming like u need better english than technical skills if u want to suceed as a s/w engineer.I know many people who excel in the field more with their command on english.I dont know about other parts of the world... Today I told my boss regarding my colleague that "I will inform this to him". and he burst out to laughing...coz he was a she(umm..I mean my colleague was a lady) Now a days regularly I am dreaming about coding in my mother tounge.. :((:((
jitAtran wrote:
I mean my colleague was a lady
Colleague can refer to a man or a woman. Here is the definition of colleague from dictionary.com for anyone learning English or using English as a second language:
A fellow member of a profession, staff, or academic faculty; an associateSo, jitAtran, calling your female co-worker a 'colleague' is not weird :) Hope this helps people learning English, Paul -
My dear planetmates, its high time for all the nations to sit together to invent a language which is acceptable by everyone as global language Really,life is getting miserable without english.In india its becoming like u need better english than technical skills if u want to suceed as a s/w engineer.I know many people who excel in the field more with their command on english.I dont know about other parts of the world... Today I told my boss regarding my colleague that "I will inform this to him". and he burst out to laughing...coz he was a she(umm..I mean my colleague was a lady) Now a days regularly I am dreaming about coding in my mother tounge.. :((:((
English 312,757,646 Chinese 132,301,513 Japanese 86,300,000 Spanish 80,593,698 German 56,853,104 French 40,974,004 Korean 33,900,000 Portuguese 32,372,000 Italian 28,870,000 Russian 23,700,000 from: http://www.internetworldstats.com/stats.htm[^]
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jitAtran wrote:
I mean my colleague was a lady
Colleague can refer to a man or a woman. Here is the definition of colleague from dictionary.com for anyone learning English or using English as a second language:
A fellow member of a profession, staff, or academic faculty; an associateSo, jitAtran, calling your female co-worker a 'colleague' is not weird :) Hope this helps people learning English, Paulcomputerguru92382 wrote:
So, jitAtran, calling your female co-worker a 'colleague' is not weird Hope this helps people learning English,
:confused: He referred to her as "he" - it was that, that caused him trouble. Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
The Ultimate Grid - The #1 MFC grid out there! -
jitAtran wrote:
In india its becoming like u need better english than technical skills if u want to suceed as a s/w engineer.
Not just in India, it's the same everywhere.
jitAtran wrote:
Today I told my boss regarding my colleague that "I will inform this to him". and he burst out to laughing...coz he was a she(umm..I mean my colleague was a lady)
Referring to a woman as "he" seems to be a little odd - what's that got to do with the complexity of the language? I bet you are glad she didn't hear you say that :-)
jitAtran wrote:
Now a days regularly I am dreaming about coding in my mother tounge..
My native tongue is Malayalam, and while I think it's a cool language, I wouldn't remotely want to write code in it. :eek: Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
The Ultimate Grid - The #1 MFC grid out there!I think things are getting better. Lot more training and communication sessions are conducted in most of the companies these days. Lets be proud that we are dealing with so many languages daily. My native tounge is Telugu. The native language of the place I was born is Tamil. The first language in school was English, 2nd Language was Sanskrit, 3rd Language was Hindi. I guess this has been the case for most of the Indians out here. It wouldnt take 100 years as quoted by someone, may be 10-15 years thing would be more different as students are taking more pains in knowing the language. Tarakeshwar .net Developer(c# , Asp.net)
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English 312,757,646 Chinese 132,301,513 Japanese 86,300,000 Spanish 80,593,698 German 56,853,104 French 40,974,004 Korean 33,900,000 Portuguese 32,372,000 Italian 28,870,000 Russian 23,700,000 from: http://www.internetworldstats.com/stats.htm[^]
You'd think with 1 billion people, at least one Indian language would make that list. But we have different languages for different states. Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
The Ultimate Grid - The #1 MFC grid out there! -
[Message Deleted]
Dinuj Nath wrote:
I think it started out because of out complexes and the British history.
British used English as the official language during their rule, and they also introduced the English system of education. Once India became independent, English naturally continued to be an official language because we did not have a common Indian language all our states could follow. Every problem has a gift for you in its hands. -- Richard Bach
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I think things are getting better. Lot more training and communication sessions are conducted in most of the companies these days. Lets be proud that we are dealing with so many languages daily. My native tounge is Telugu. The native language of the place I was born is Tamil. The first language in school was English, 2nd Language was Sanskrit, 3rd Language was Hindi. I guess this has been the case for most of the Indians out here. It wouldnt take 100 years as quoted by someone, may be 10-15 years thing would be more different as students are taking more pains in knowing the language. Tarakeshwar .net Developer(c# , Asp.net)
Tarakeshwar wrote:
The first language in school was English, 2nd Language was Sanskrit, 3rd Language was Hindi. I guess this has been the case for most of the Indians out here.
In my school (under the ICSE/ISC board), first language was English and second language was Malayalam. We did have hindi as a third language till Class 7. Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
The Ultimate Grid - The #1 MFC grid out there! -
You'd think with 1 billion people, at least one Indian language would make that list. But we have different languages for different states. Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
The Ultimate Grid - The #1 MFC grid out there!Top 10 spoken langauages Language Approx. number of speakers 1. Chinese (Mandarin) 1,075,000,000 2. English 514,000,000 3. Hindi 496,000,000 4. Spanish 425,000,000 5. Russian 275,000,000 6. Arabic 256,000,000 7. Bengali 215,000,000 8. Portuguese 194,000,000 9. Malay-Indonesian 176,000,000 10. French 129,000,000 It's that people don't "need" Hindi or Bengali sites.
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Dinuj Nath wrote:
In 100 years english will wipe out all the languages in India.
That's ok. India will wipe out all programmers in America. (Actually, China will wipe us both out, and I don't think China will learn English). Marc Pensieve Some people believe what the bible says. Literally. At least [with Wikipedia] you have the chance to correct the wiki -- Jörgen Sigvardsson -- modified at 8:52 Thursday 4th May, 2006
actually I would have to disagree with that. I've managed a team in China and had some of the best 'english speaking' chinese there as team members. Yet they still did silly things like function names of 'Function1', 'Function2'. We got them to make better function and variable names but the fact that they only 'knew' english and didn't trully 'understand' english made it almost impossible for them to write code in such a way that other english speakers could easily use it. I personally think China will become one of the dominant countries in the world for making things but I don't think it will ever become a leader in software or BPO. Even if english were to take off in China (very unlikely) then by the time it spread enough Chinese workers will be making more than us here in the states anyway and they'll be outsourcing to us~
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Marc Clifton wrote:
jitAtran wrote: if u want Not planning on succeeding, are you?
Its coz of my bad practice,I admit.But i feel comfortable with it.
If you are more comfortable using SMS Speak over actual English, you don't deserve to be employed anywhere. Current blacklist svmilky - Extremely rude | FeRtoll - Rude personal emails | ironstrike1 - Rude & Obnoxious behaviour
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Marc Clifton wrote:
jitAtran wrote: if u want Not planning on succeeding, are you?
Its coz of my bad practice,I admit.But i feel comfortable with it.
jitAtran wrote:
... practice,I admit.But ...
Also, please leave a space after punctuation symbols (commas, periods, etc.)... unless hitting that large and heavy space bar is a big pain in your thumb.
The bible was written when people were even more stupid than they are today. Can you imagine that? - David Cross
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I thought it was universally accepted that George Bush is a power-hungry wanker. ------- sig starts "Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt "...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001
John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
I thought it was universally accepted that George Bush is a power-hungry wanker.
It's well known, but not universally accepted. Some people have a tough time accepting the truth. :)
The bible was written when people were even more stupid than they are today. Can you imagine that? - David Cross
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Top 10 spoken langauages Language Approx. number of speakers 1. Chinese (Mandarin) 1,075,000,000 2. English 514,000,000 3. Hindi 496,000,000 4. Spanish 425,000,000 5. Russian 275,000,000 6. Arabic 256,000,000 7. Bengali 215,000,000 8. Portuguese 194,000,000 9. Malay-Indonesian 176,000,000 10. French 129,000,000 It's that people don't "need" Hindi or Bengali sites.
I think those stats are misleading. Where are they from? Just the populations of the US, UK, Canada and Australia would easily surpass 514m even as a 'first' language. Adding english as a second language I think would push it well into the billions.
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computerguru92382 wrote:
So, jitAtran, calling your female co-worker a 'colleague' is not weird Hope this helps people learning English,
:confused: He referred to her as "he" - it was that, that caused him trouble. Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
The Ultimate Grid - The #1 MFC grid out there!Nishant Sivakumar wrote:
He referred to her as "he" - it was that, that caused him trouble
Yeah, I saw his silly mistake. I can assume that maybe his colleague was someone he may have not worked with before and didn't know the person's gender. And with my definition, I am only trying to help people who may not know what colleague means. Cheers, Paul
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English 312,757,646 Chinese 132,301,513 Japanese 86,300,000 Spanish 80,593,698 German 56,853,104 French 40,974,004 Korean 33,900,000 Portuguese 32,372,000 Italian 28,870,000 Russian 23,700,000 from: http://www.internetworldstats.com/stats.htm[^]
There is a joke in our area like this.."American people are great . even beggers will speak only english". And let me share one more thing .my close friend is an expert in english.got educated from a public school.He can even quote the whole "Hamlet" at a stretch( a bit exaggerated..pls excuse)..But he was put into a Japanese project .Now he is pulling his hairs to learn the a,b,c,d of japanese,and takin japaneese tution too.... His leader will the best example for theworst english,but he is the scholar no:1 of japanese in his company what a fate.... -- modified at 23:03 Thursday 4th May, 2006
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My dear planetmates, its high time for all the nations to sit together to invent a language which is acceptable by everyone as global language Really,life is getting miserable without english.In india its becoming like u need better english than technical skills if u want to suceed as a s/w engineer.I know many people who excel in the field more with their command on english.I dont know about other parts of the world... Today I told my boss regarding my colleague that "I will inform this to him". and he burst out to laughing...coz he was a she(umm..I mean my colleague was a lady) Now a days regularly I am dreaming about coding in my mother tounge.. :((:((
It doesn't matter what category you try to put things, you rule some out, give preference to others. Whether it is spoken language, or computer language. The VB folks scream because they didn't want to learn C to keep programming. Same applies to spoken or written language. If you know more than one you have broader capabilities of applications work. Applications are, for the most part, written for others as such they reflect the people they were written for as much as the person who writes them. Writing software for French speaking people, if all you know is Texas English, you are more likely to offend them -- which may or may not be your intent, but the product will flop. I know one spoken/written language and even that, as I often say, my English teachers in High School and College would wish to debate. I survive off of the multi-language on the programming side, able to switch from C/C++ to Pascal, to Fortran and others at ease. Skills add to that basic ability with GUI or 3D or algorithm management, database work, etc. Same goes with lingual skills, the ability to write a good whitepaper on discoveries is important in high-tech fields (you must not only do it, but you have to prove you did it!). Who you prove it to again goes back to intent, who you are writing it for. So you are thinking backwards, until all the world speaks the same language, without dialect differences and local colloquialisms you will always have to relearn. I promise if you put a native Texan in the same room as a Britain or Australian, they will eventually offend each other while still speaking "English." In fact if you start the discussion about who is really speaking "English" you will get the offending done and overwith in the first exchange. _________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
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It doesn't matter what category you try to put things, you rule some out, give preference to others. Whether it is spoken language, or computer language. The VB folks scream because they didn't want to learn C to keep programming. Same applies to spoken or written language. If you know more than one you have broader capabilities of applications work. Applications are, for the most part, written for others as such they reflect the people they were written for as much as the person who writes them. Writing software for French speaking people, if all you know is Texas English, you are more likely to offend them -- which may or may not be your intent, but the product will flop. I know one spoken/written language and even that, as I often say, my English teachers in High School and College would wish to debate. I survive off of the multi-language on the programming side, able to switch from C/C++ to Pascal, to Fortran and others at ease. Skills add to that basic ability with GUI or 3D or algorithm management, database work, etc. Same goes with lingual skills, the ability to write a good whitepaper on discoveries is important in high-tech fields (you must not only do it, but you have to prove you did it!). Who you prove it to again goes back to intent, who you are writing it for. So you are thinking backwards, until all the world speaks the same language, without dialect differences and local colloquialisms you will always have to relearn. I promise if you put a native Texan in the same room as a Britain or Australian, they will eventually offend each other while still speaking "English." In fact if you start the discussion about who is really speaking "English" you will get the offending done and overwith in the first exchange. _________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
Great Jeffry, that was a really cool post which contains some worthy comments.I just quoted the present day Indian condition.And ,Though i may not get a call center job, I can do communicate in the s/w field with my english. The irony is ,here in india even if you have got hundreds of awards in competitions like elocution and extempore in your mother toungue,You may be rejected as a candidate for an IT job by saying that your communication skills are poor.We can understand if they term it as english skills. And moreover a single language for all is merely a dream.See,languages causes many problems.It forms groups.In india around 19 languages are there which is being used for speaking.Based on these languages the country has been divided into many states where each states holds a unique culture associated with their langauge. If you have been mixed up with a group of people where some will speak your language and others a different one.Soon a group will be formed with respect to the language.If we are considering ourselves as a global citizen,no problem would occur. Imagine if all are speaking the same language ?(without any hard grammer rulles,I should say) -- modified at 14:04 Thursday 4th May, 2006
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My dear planetmates, its high time for all the nations to sit together to invent a language which is acceptable by everyone as global language Really,life is getting miserable without english.In india its becoming like u need better english than technical skills if u want to suceed as a s/w engineer.I know many people who excel in the field more with their command on english.I dont know about other parts of the world... Today I told my boss regarding my colleague that "I will inform this to him". and he burst out to laughing...coz he was a she(umm..I mean my colleague was a lady) Now a days regularly I am dreaming about coding in my mother tounge.. :((:((
The problem isn't english, the problem is your country is reliant on technology that was developed by english speaking people. So I guess your real solution is design a computer system using software based on your own language rather than building on one that is foreign to you. Then you'd have no problems. Likely, if the nations did get together to "invent a language" it would be based on the most commonly spoken language, which I believe is english. So you probably would lose either way. Best thing that could be done is everyone just accept a certain language and start teaching that language early in schools.