galileo
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Tibor Blazko wrote: it will be payed service According to what I heard on TV yesterday, GPS use will be free, but additional services (as for example the outsourced managment of a taxi fleet) could be payed. But the most important is Europe invests in hi-tech programs, and seems to have the will to stay independant (even UK ;) ). For the moment, every GPS use relies on the good will of the US Department of Defense... It's funny how we get started. They get their money from the things on you. They get your money and the girls and the fame. I only do it for the fun. That's my game. KoRn, "Counting"
that i misunderstood: galileo's gps is free (too), hearing gps i thought about us system only t!
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I work in a university research department, and I know quite a few people round here who'd be very happy with a more accurate version of GPS. With one of our recent projects we were trying to track people when their position had an accuracy of +/- 15 metres. Have fun, Kevin
It all depends on the antenna and location. My eTrex Summit usually has the accuracy of 5 meters in open spaces which drops to 20 meters in the (not very dense) forest. Tomasz Sowinski -- http://www.shooltz.com
** If you're going to rape, pillage and burn, be sure to do things in that order. ** -
It all depends on the antenna and location. My eTrex Summit usually has the accuracy of 5 meters in open spaces which drops to 20 meters in the (not very dense) forest. Tomasz Sowinski -- http://www.shooltz.com
** If you're going to rape, pillage and burn, be sure to do things in that order. **The accuracy normally was about 5 metres, but on one of the days it dropped to 15. However, we recently bought a little device which can increase the accuracy to about 2 metres. I think it works by obtaining a more accurate position of where the GPS satellites are. Have fun, Kevin
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Ray Kinsella wrote: The create of the Europe's own major Capital Market is more important Oh no, not the liberal point of view again ! Europe should not only be an economic idea, but also a political, social and cultural one. For the moment the only targets were economical: common market/free-trade, common currency, deregulations, etc. The most important point is IMHO to have now a European constitution and a democratic way of decision. It would allow us to have a common defense policy, a common foreign policy, common social protection rights... It's funny how we get started. They get their money from the things on you. They get your money and the girls and the fame. I only do it for the fun. That's my game. KoRn, "Counting"
Karl, Karl wrote: The most important point is IMHO to have now a European constitution and a democratic way of decision. It would allow us to have a common defense policy, a common foreign policy, common social protection rights Things move one step at a time, I would support all the initatives that you mention. I however think in terms of what is fundamentally required to make relise the basic European Dream. Wealth, Power, Learning, Social Inclusion and Social Justice. Now as we say in Ireland, 'the long and the short of it is' to achieve all of these Ideal, we need most fundamentally to create wealth, we need to create jobs, we need investment, we need the ability to invest, we need economic weight. The Euro has helped, but I see more important now to Europe's success is German, French and Italian Economic reform. Regards Ray "Je Suis Mort De Rire"
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Tibor Blazko wrote: it will cost 1.1 billion euro (knowing state planning it must be very optimistic) In real terms for a system of this type, it isn't a whole lot of cash, and where as I amn't arguing for wasting cash, I can see why we would need it. You would have a very valid arguement if you said 'The US have one why build a second' ?, well my defense in this case would be, are we to depend on the US to allow us to use their system indefinetly, especially in a diplomatic climate post the banana/beef and steel wars? It is no harm for the world have a second system, abet a more powerful system. I am sure you are very familar with the term Competion ? Tibor Blazko wrote: project will be 'sponsored' by eu 'till will start be profitable' (not in link but in yesterdays bbc radio news) That isn't unusual for Projects of this type, the Channel Tunnel for instance was sponsor at least partially by the EU, until its reached profitablity around two years ago. Major European Capital projects if they are being run for the benefit/improve the lives of EU citizens will almost always recieve major capital investment for Federal Government, I quote the article 'more accurate and reliable in those areas that have been poorly served so far - and this includes some areas of Northern Europe. ' Tibor Blazko wrote: it will be payed service (they speak gps is free), how someone will force users to pay for it? (new windows vs linux?) is here someone who knows compare features? t! Thats a good question ? I would like to see the answer myself, does the US GPS system make money ? Regards Ray "Je Suis Mort De Rire"
I think the Russians have a system too. The US system is primarily for Military use. The civilian service is downgraded to be less accurate than the mulitary one. It's also possible that the civilian service could be suspended at any time the US deems appropriate. The European system will not have these restrictions because it will primarily be a civilian system Paresh Solanki Today is the tomorrow you were worried about yesterday.
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Karl, Karl wrote: The most important point is IMHO to have now a European constitution and a democratic way of decision. It would allow us to have a common defense policy, a common foreign policy, common social protection rights Things move one step at a time, I would support all the initatives that you mention. I however think in terms of what is fundamentally required to make relise the basic European Dream. Wealth, Power, Learning, Social Inclusion and Social Justice. Now as we say in Ireland, 'the long and the short of it is' to achieve all of these Ideal, we need most fundamentally to create wealth, we need to create jobs, we need investment, we need the ability to invest, we need economic weight. The Euro has helped, but I see more important now to Europe's success is German, French and Italian Economic reform. Regards Ray "Je Suis Mort De Rire"
Ray Kinsella wrote: Wealth, Power, Learning, Social Inclusion and Social Justice I could not agree more :) Ray Kinsella wrote: but I see more important now to Europe's success is German, French and Italian Economic reform What kind of reform are you meaning ? PS: would U be able to stop us in completing the first 6-nations grand slam ? No way! ;) ;P :-D It's funny how we get started. They get their money from the things on you. They get your money and the girls and the fame. I only do it for the fun. That's my game. KoRn, "Counting"
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that i misunderstood: galileo's gps is free (too), hearing gps i thought about us system only t!
You may perhaps find useful information in this article: European satellite plan ruffles US feathers . At the end, it compares the two systems. HTH, K. It's funny how we get started. They get their money from the things on you. They get your money and the girls and the fame. I only do it for the fun. That's my game. KoRn, "Counting"
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You may perhaps find useful information in this article: European satellite plan ruffles US feathers . At the end, it compares the two systems. HTH, K. It's funny how we get started. They get their money from the things on you. They get your money and the girls and the fame. I only do it for the fun. That's my game. KoRn, "Counting"
Anybody can verify this statement from the article? GPS was designed mainly for the armed forces, which has meant civilian users being given downgraded information I remember that Clinton has decided to stop jamming GPS signals in late 90's. Or are there other means of downgrading information? Tomasz Sowinski -- http://www.shooltz.com
- It's for protection
- Protection from what? Zee Germans? -
The accuracy normally was about 5 metres, but on one of the days it dropped to 15. However, we recently bought a little device which can increase the accuracy to about 2 metres. I think it works by obtaining a more accurate position of where the GPS satellites are. Have fun, Kevin
Kevin Glover wrote: However, we recently bought a little device which can increase the accuracy to about 2 metres. I think it works by obtaining a more accurate position of where the GPS satellites are. So, basically, it's an antenna, right? Tomasz Sowinski -- http://www.shooltz.com
- It's for protection
- Protection from what? Zee Germans? -
Anybody can verify this statement from the article? GPS was designed mainly for the armed forces, which has meant civilian users being given downgraded information I remember that Clinton has decided to stop jamming GPS signals in late 90's. Or are there other means of downgrading information? Tomasz Sowinski -- http://www.shooltz.com
- It's for protection
- Protection from what? Zee Germans?GPS was designed for the US and allies for military purposes. The percision of the measurement has been increased over the years, and eventually a second class of measurement was introduced so that the military could have high percision and others ("civilian") would have lower percision. During the Gulf War, the "civilian" signal was either blocked or percision was greatly reduced (honestly I can't rememeber which after 10 years!) and restored after the War. So...now for something interesting....why does everyone in Europe think that a civilian GPS won't be blocked during a time of war?? Imagine that all of the sudden people start hijacking airplains and crashing them in Paris, London, or Rome and they are guided by the nice new GPS system?? What if the US military decided that the European GPS system was the source of problems for them....I wonder if they would block the signal or would they just shoot the satilites out of the sky?? I'm all got a better GPS, but I also know a bit about its history....I wouldn't assume that a civilian system is going to be able to be available when a war starts.
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GPS was designed for the US and allies for military purposes. The percision of the measurement has been increased over the years, and eventually a second class of measurement was introduced so that the military could have high percision and others ("civilian") would have lower percision. During the Gulf War, the "civilian" signal was either blocked or percision was greatly reduced (honestly I can't rememeber which after 10 years!) and restored after the War. So...now for something interesting....why does everyone in Europe think that a civilian GPS won't be blocked during a time of war?? Imagine that all of the sudden people start hijacking airplains and crashing them in Paris, London, or Rome and they are guided by the nice new GPS system?? What if the US military decided that the European GPS system was the source of problems for them....I wonder if they would block the signal or would they just shoot the satilites out of the sky?? I'm all got a better GPS, but I also know a bit about its history....I wouldn't assume that a civilian system is going to be able to be available when a war starts.
Paul Wolfensberger wrote: GPS was designed for the US and allies for military purposes. This is obvious. I was asking about 'Selective Availability' feature and other - are there any - means of 'downgrading civilian information'. Tomasz Sowinski -- http://www.shooltz.com
- It's for protection
- Protection from what? Zee Germans? -
Ray Kinsella wrote: Wealth, Power, Learning, Social Inclusion and Social Justice I could not agree more :) Ray Kinsella wrote: but I see more important now to Europe's success is German, French and Italian Economic reform What kind of reform are you meaning ? PS: would U be able to stop us in completing the first 6-nations grand slam ? No way! ;) ;P :-D It's funny how we get started. They get their money from the things on you. They get your money and the girls and the fame. I only do it for the fun. That's my game. KoRn, "Counting"
Karl wrote: What kind of reform are you meaning ? Making it cheaper/easier/more efficent to do business. Regards Ray "Je Suis Mort De Rire"
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yesterday was officaly started european project galileo: http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/sci/tech/newsid_1893000/1893022.stm - rival to us global positioning system system - 1 meter precision - more than 400 milion users expected - 100 000 new jobs planned (i always wonder reading something like this) - primary civil usage till now it sounds me nice but - it will cost 1.1 billion euro (knowing state planning it must be very optimistic) - project will be 'sponsored' by eu 'till will start be profitable' (not in link but in yesterdays bbc radio news) - it will be payed service (they speak gps is free), how someone will force users to pay for it? (new windows vs linux?) is here someone who knows compare features? t!
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Paul Wolfensberger wrote: GPS was designed for the US and allies for military purposes. This is obvious. I was asking about 'Selective Availability' feature and other - are there any - means of 'downgrading civilian information'. Tomasz Sowinski -- http://www.shooltz.com
- It's for protection
- Protection from what? Zee Germans?Probably. I can think of several ways. One that immediately comes to mind would be to use a pseudorandom number generator to phase shift the satellite signals. The military receivers would use a matching compensation system that civilian receivers don't have. That would keep us all walking in circles:-D
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I think the Russians have a system too. The US system is primarily for Military use. The civilian service is downgraded to be less accurate than the mulitary one. It's also possible that the civilian service could be suspended at any time the US deems appropriate. The European system will not have these restrictions because it will primarily be a civilian system Paresh Solanki Today is the tomorrow you were worried about yesterday.
Paresh Solanki wrote: The US system is primarily for Military use. The civilian service is downgraded to be less accurate than the mulitary one. The US system is NOT primarily for military use. There are plenty of GPS receivers available on the consumer market. Originally, the US intentionally put slight errors in the information (so that other militaries couldn't use it for their military operations), but someone figured out how to take the bad information out of the signal. Last I heard, the US eliminated the errors because it was pointless once someone could remove them anyway. I think the US system is accurate to within 1 or 3 meters (I don't quite remember).
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yesterday was officaly started european project galileo: http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/sci/tech/newsid_1893000/1893022.stm - rival to us global positioning system system - 1 meter precision - more than 400 milion users expected - 100 000 new jobs planned (i always wonder reading something like this) - primary civil usage till now it sounds me nice but - it will cost 1.1 billion euro (knowing state planning it must be very optimistic) - project will be 'sponsored' by eu 'till will start be profitable' (not in link but in yesterdays bbc radio news) - it will be payed service (they speak gps is free), how someone will force users to pay for it? (new windows vs linux?) is here someone who knows compare features? t!
When I look at this european system I can't help thinking that the only reason the Europeans are building it is to massage their collective pride. Why are they spending billions of dollars on a redundant system? Here's an interesting quote: "It will allow the European Union to liberate itself from dependence on the American GPS system," the French transport minister, Jean-Claude Gayssot, said. President, Jacques Chirac of France insisted last year that the EU could not accept "serfdom" in space by relying on GPS. "Liberate" and "Serfdom"? Give me a break. Next, I'll be expecting him to use the phrase, "Tyranny of the US GPS system". The benefits of the european system? · Galileo will cover extreme latitudes that GPS misses ( Oh, that justifies the price tag. It's important for it to work in the arctic circle, because there's a huge untapped market of users - oh, wait. ) · Galileo will pinpoint the position of any object to within a metre. It will make it possible to study from space tectonic movements in earthquake zones or analyse the level of rivers and lakes ( Actually, the US GPS system is very accurate - if your system isn't accurate, it's because you have an old receiver. Originally, the US intentionally put errors in the system to prevent other militaries from using the system, but GPS makers found ways to take out the errors. Last I heard, the US was going to remove the errors in the signal because they could be overcome anyway. ) · GPS was designed mainly for the armed forces, which has meant civilian users being given downgraded information ( See above. ) · Neither system guarantees signal cover and both reserve the right to cut off private users should extra capacity be needed or national security be invoked ( Oh, so they're the same in this respect. ) · Galileo promises a more reliable and accurate service unaffected by military needs, and uninterrupted access for paying customers ( Except in the case listed above? ) Source: http://www.guardian.co.uk/Archive/Article/0,4273,4382492,00.html One good thing I can think of for the European system: If anyone starts destroying the US GPS system ( which would affect US military bombing accuracy ), then the US could switch to the European system. Thanks Europe! Overall, it sounds like a huge waste of money - unless you count "pride" in the equation.
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Kevin Glover wrote: However, we recently bought a little device which can increase the accuracy to about 2 metres. I think it works by obtaining a more accurate position of where the GPS satellites are. So, basically, it's an antenna, right? Tomasz Sowinski -- http://www.shooltz.com
- It's for protection
- Protection from what? Zee Germans?Tomasz Sowinski wrote: So, basically, it's an antenna, right? There is a system called DGPS -> Differential Global Positioning System, and yes, you use an extra antenna :-) Regardz Colin J Davies
Sonork ID 100.9197:Colin Testing Current Sig <:jig:>
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Paul Wolfensberger wrote: GPS was designed for the US and allies for military purposes. This is obvious. I was asking about 'Selective Availability' feature and other - are there any - means of 'downgrading civilian information'. Tomasz Sowinski -- http://www.shooltz.com
- It's for protection
- Protection from what? Zee Germans?Yes....as I said, the 'civialian' service was degraded during the Gulf War....