Is this fair? [modified]
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I have been a silent observer of Codeproject. But I was forced to get the membership today to post this post here. Reason is In my company, I know some critical technology which nobody knows. Now they came to know that I am trying for some better options. So all of a sudden they have asked me give full training to some fellow employees which are very junior. Even they made them to sit just beside me. I feel like my privacy is hampered and for god sake I wish to tell my boss that I am getting this salary for the work I do not to give training for free. I have taken so much hard work to learn it by my own. I too did not get any help from the people who know it before.. Why I may be giving it so cheaply. What do you think is this fair? Olmert
I would like to add, on top of the 2 excellent previous answer, that it is a chance for you, not a burden. That means they finally realize how skilled and precious you are! Capitalize on that, ask a rise, a new office, a new parking spot, a personal and young blonde secretary! Go on man! :laugh:
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I would like to add, on top of the 2 excellent previous answer, that it is a chance for you, not a burden. That means they finally realize how skilled and precious you are! Capitalize on that, ask a rise, a new office, a new parking spot, a personal and young blonde secretary! Go on man! :laugh:
Super Lloyd wrote:
That means they finally realize how skilled and precious you are!
So true!! Now they want him more than ever before!!
Super Lloyd wrote:
a personal and young blonde secretary
:laugh: :laugh:
Luis Alonso Ramos Intelectix Chihuahua, Mexico
Not much here: My CP Blog!
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I have been a silent observer of Codeproject. But I was forced to get the membership today to post this post here. Reason is In my company, I know some critical technology which nobody knows. Now they came to know that I am trying for some better options. So all of a sudden they have asked me give full training to some fellow employees which are very junior. Even they made them to sit just beside me. I feel like my privacy is hampered and for god sake I wish to tell my boss that I am getting this salary for the work I do not to give training for free. I have taken so much hard work to learn it by my own. I too did not get any help from the people who know it before.. Why I may be giving it so cheaply. What do you think is this fair? Olmert
Everybody has said perfect things. Just wanted to add one. Sharing Knowledge is the best way to increase your existing knowledge. You are never a loser when you share your knowledge. "Writing specifications is like writing a novel. Writing code is like writing poetry."
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I have been a silent observer of Codeproject. But I was forced to get the membership today to post this post here. Reason is In my company, I know some critical technology which nobody knows. Now they came to know that I am trying for some better options. So all of a sudden they have asked me give full training to some fellow employees which are very junior. Even they made them to sit just beside me. I feel like my privacy is hampered and for god sake I wish to tell my boss that I am getting this salary for the work I do not to give training for free. I have taken so much hard work to learn it by my own. I too did not get any help from the people who know it before.. Why I may be giving it so cheaply. What do you think is this fair? Olmert
O`mert wrote:
I have taken so much hard work to learn it by my own.
If they contributed nothing to your training they're entitled to nothing in return. Leave and let them choke on their own stupidity. I worked for seven years for a company which demanded ever increasing technology solutions, paid a pittance of a salary, and refused to pay for any training or the tools required to do my job. It was a waste of seven years of my life. Run, don't walk, for the next opportunity. And don't waste a moment worrying about the company or training anyone. They don't deserve you, and have no legitimate claim to what you have learned on your own. "...a photo album is like Life, but flat and stuck to pages." - Shog9
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O`mert wrote:
I have taken so much hard work to learn it by my own.
If they contributed nothing to your training they're entitled to nothing in return. Leave and let them choke on their own stupidity. I worked for seven years for a company which demanded ever increasing technology solutions, paid a pittance of a salary, and refused to pay for any training or the tools required to do my job. It was a waste of seven years of my life. Run, don't walk, for the next opportunity. And don't waste a moment worrying about the company or training anyone. They don't deserve you, and have no legitimate claim to what you have learned on your own. "...a photo album is like Life, but flat and stuck to pages." - Shog9
Roger, That perfectly suits me. This company has never contributed. I have learnt my own before joining this company. My experience is very bad from the people who already knew it.They never help me. This company hired me for these skills . It was such a hard time for me and giving it so easily has not been so easy. Olmert
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I have been a silent observer of Codeproject. But I was forced to get the membership today to post this post here. Reason is In my company, I know some critical technology which nobody knows. Now they came to know that I am trying for some better options. So all of a sudden they have asked me give full training to some fellow employees which are very junior. Even they made them to sit just beside me. I feel like my privacy is hampered and for god sake I wish to tell my boss that I am getting this salary for the work I do not to give training for free. I have taken so much hard work to learn it by my own. I too did not get any help from the people who know it before.. Why I may be giving it so cheaply. What do you think is this fair? Olmert
First off, life is rarely fair. And a good job too, I'd hate to think all the bad things happen to me because I deserve it :-D Secondly, Is this critical technology documented? If not, why not? If you are looking for better options outside your company, then your boss is doing the right thing to protect his business. If you have the 'technologoy' documented, then your boss might not be forced to take this action. A good team member, is always willing to share knowledge with his team-mates - even if that knowledge was earned the hard way. There is nothing big and clever about making somebody else do it the hard way, if you can make it easier for them. So whilst you may not think it is fair, I think it sounds very reasonable and that there are good lessons for you to learn in the process. Michael CP Blog [^] Development Blog [^]
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O`mert wrote:
I have taken so much hard work to learn it by my own.
If they contributed nothing to your training they're entitled to nothing in return. Leave and let them choke on their own stupidity. I worked for seven years for a company which demanded ever increasing technology solutions, paid a pittance of a salary, and refused to pay for any training or the tools required to do my job. It was a waste of seven years of my life. Run, don't walk, for the next opportunity. And don't waste a moment worrying about the company or training anyone. They don't deserve you, and have no legitimate claim to what you have learned on your own. "...a photo album is like Life, but flat and stuck to pages." - Shog9
Roger Wright wrote:
I worked for seven years for a company which demanded ever increasing technology solutions, paid a pittance of a salary, and refused to pay for any training or the tools required to do my job. It was a waste of seven years of my life.
Really? So you didn't learn anything in that time, then, Roger? ;P Actually, I know how you feel - although I'm contracting again these days, when I was an employee, I was taken for granted by one employer, that knew I would move Heaven and Earth to get product shipping, along with some, but sadly, not all of my colleagues - they know who they are ;) So I worked early morning to late night, some weekends, skipped holidays, and worked flat out. A little later, I did get something in return, when (whoopee!) I was allowed to work at home while my wife recovered from major surgery (twice in three months). Let us gloss over the fact that I was more productive (codewise) at that point. However, the winds of change blew a new manager my way, who wasn't 'my kind of guy', and seemed to have been put in place to encourage me to leave. Before he was appointed, it was appraisal time, and I remarked that yes, things had been tough, but at least I wasn't working for Mr X. When they appointed him weeks later, I gave notice practically immediately; within 6 months, most of the senior (experience-wise) people had also gone, with a few exceptions. Steve S Developer for hire
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First off, life is rarely fair. And a good job too, I'd hate to think all the bad things happen to me because I deserve it :-D Secondly, Is this critical technology documented? If not, why not? If you are looking for better options outside your company, then your boss is doing the right thing to protect his business. If you have the 'technologoy' documented, then your boss might not be forced to take this action. A good team member, is always willing to share knowledge with his team-mates - even if that knowledge was earned the hard way. There is nothing big and clever about making somebody else do it the hard way, if you can make it easier for them. So whilst you may not think it is fair, I think it sounds very reasonable and that there are good lessons for you to learn in the process. Michael CP Blog [^] Development Blog [^]
I couldn't agree more! I seem to be the only one on our team who bungs comments into the code and I'm certainly the only one who writes documentation without the kind of force that would move mountains! If you're working for the kind of company where the hoarding of knowledge is the norm then I'd say run for the hills! Nothing good can come from that. Rob Manderson I'm working on a version for Visual Lisp++ My blog http://blogs.wdevs.com/ultramaroon/[^]
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I have been a silent observer of Codeproject. But I was forced to get the membership today to post this post here. Reason is In my company, I know some critical technology which nobody knows. Now they came to know that I am trying for some better options. So all of a sudden they have asked me give full training to some fellow employees which are very junior. Even they made them to sit just beside me. I feel like my privacy is hampered and for god sake I wish to tell my boss that I am getting this salary for the work I do not to give training for free. I have taken so much hard work to learn it by my own. I too did not get any help from the people who know it before.. Why I may be giving it so cheaply. What do you think is this fair? Olmert
The same thing happened to me. It was a bitter chew at the begining. Now I feel its all in the game and they pay me even for that too. I had to read a 700 pages PDF doc, to start coding my application. I read the doc days and nights. Now juniors are joining here, and I'm just giving them the code snippets which I did like gold mining. At first I really felt verrrry difficult to "share" the "test", "try", "sample" folders. Now I am not caring about it. because the pay they give me is also for this kind of work. You cannot separate "coding" and "code sharing" when you work for a company. So dont worry, instead keep reading new docs. And I dont think you need to teach them everything you learn on your own interest. But when the application demands, and your co-worker needs it, you certainly have to help them. good luck :)
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I think it is fair. Since you are currently working for them, they have all the right to ask you to train someone, and you should do it. Of course training is not enough without practice, so even if you leave, the junior employees won't do it perfectly at the beginning. If you are so critical to the company, I guess you should sit with your boss and tell him you think you are worth more, that you would like a rise, and if not, you will be searching for better options. See how he reacts. And anyway, good luck! :rose:
Luis Alonso Ramos Intelectix Chihuahua, Mexico
Not much here: My CP Blog!
There are balances that can be made and reached across the table from and both the parties. From your side: (1) Being an active employee, I think, you also need to impart necessary training when you change jobs as part of routine knowledge transfer processes, so that regular business processes of the current employer are not unduly affected when you leave. From your employer: (1) Your employer can consider your current skillset, technical upgradation and may give you an encouraging hike. Vasudevan Deepak Kumar Personal Web: http://www.lavanyadeepak.tk/ I Blog At: http://www.dotnetjunkies.com/weblog/deepak/
http://deepakvasudevan.blogspot.com/
http://deepak.blogdrive.com/ -
The same thing happened to me. It was a bitter chew at the begining. Now I feel its all in the game and they pay me even for that too. I had to read a 700 pages PDF doc, to start coding my application. I read the doc days and nights. Now juniors are joining here, and I'm just giving them the code snippets which I did like gold mining. At first I really felt verrrry difficult to "share" the "test", "try", "sample" folders. Now I am not caring about it. because the pay they give me is also for this kind of work. You cannot separate "coding" and "code sharing" when you work for a company. So dont worry, instead keep reading new docs. And I dont think you need to teach them everything you learn on your own interest. But when the application demands, and your co-worker needs it, you certainly have to help them. good luck :)
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VuNic wrote:
You cannot separate "coding" and "code sharing" when you work for a company.
That should be true of all coding. Whenever you code anything you should think "am I likely to want to use something like this again?" If you are, then the code should be written to be as reusable as possible. I'd much rather spend a day writing reusable code than an hour hacking together something that wouldn't be reusable. The kind of people who think "why should I do more work to make other people's lives easier" are the kind of people you probably don't want to be in your programming team anyway! There's nothing more frustrating than having to solve the same problem time and time again (or seeing people constantly re-invent the wheel) -- Help me! I'm turning into a grapefruit! Buzzwords!
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I couldn't agree more! I seem to be the only one on our team who bungs comments into the code and I'm certainly the only one who writes documentation without the kind of force that would move mountains! If you're working for the kind of company where the hoarding of knowledge is the norm then I'd say run for the hills! Nothing good can come from that. Rob Manderson I'm working on a version for Visual Lisp++ My blog http://blogs.wdevs.com/ultramaroon/[^]
Rob Manderson wrote:
I seem to be the only one on our team who bungs comments into the code and I'm certainly the only one who writes documentation without the kind of force that would move mountains!
Me too. Of course, I've been around a bit whilst most other people have been at the same company for 10+ years. It is an uphill struggle to try and turn their attitudes around. Although, there reasons are more due to laziness and not-seeing the point rather than trying to keep the knowledge to themselves. Michael CP Blog [^] Development Blog [^]
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I have been a silent observer of Codeproject. But I was forced to get the membership today to post this post here. Reason is In my company, I know some critical technology which nobody knows. Now they came to know that I am trying for some better options. So all of a sudden they have asked me give full training to some fellow employees which are very junior. Even they made them to sit just beside me. I feel like my privacy is hampered and for god sake I wish to tell my boss that I am getting this salary for the work I do not to give training for free. I have taken so much hard work to learn it by my own. I too did not get any help from the people who know it before.. Why I may be giving it so cheaply. What do you think is this fair? Olmert
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VuNic wrote:
You cannot separate "coding" and "code sharing" when you work for a company.
That should be true of all coding. Whenever you code anything you should think "am I likely to want to use something like this again?" If you are, then the code should be written to be as reusable as possible. I'd much rather spend a day writing reusable code than an hour hacking together something that wouldn't be reusable. The kind of people who think "why should I do more work to make other people's lives easier" are the kind of people you probably don't want to be in your programming team anyway! There's nothing more frustrating than having to solve the same problem time and time again (or seeing people constantly re-invent the wheel) -- Help me! I'm turning into a grapefruit! Buzzwords!
benjymous wrote:
then the code should be written to be as reusable as possible.
Yup, that's what I'm trying to do now. But while exploring the techinque, I dont think about "resuability". Once I'm sure about how it works, I'll try making it resuable.
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I have been a silent observer of Codeproject. But I was forced to get the membership today to post this post here. Reason is In my company, I know some critical technology which nobody knows. Now they came to know that I am trying for some better options. So all of a sudden they have asked me give full training to some fellow employees which are very junior. Even they made them to sit just beside me. I feel like my privacy is hampered and for god sake I wish to tell my boss that I am getting this salary for the work I do not to give training for free. I have taken so much hard work to learn it by my own. I too did not get any help from the people who know it before.. Why I may be giving it so cheaply. What do you think is this fair? Olmert
O`mert wrote:
In my company, I know some critical technology which nobody knows.
Critical to the company ? In that case, it's lax of your boss to allow this situation to exist.
O`mert wrote:
So all of a sudden they have asked me give full training to some fellow employees which are very junior.
Obviously, they expect you to leave, and so they want you to pass on your knowledge before you do. I would expect any job I left to spend some time making sure that I wasn't taking any critical knowledge with me ( that is, passing it on ).
O`mert wrote:
I do not to give training for free.
Unless he's asking you to give it at home, he's not asking you to give it for free. He's directing you how to spend the time they pay you to spend at work.
O`mert wrote:
I have taken so much hard work to learn it by my own.
Do you mean that you've learned in your own time ? If the situation is that you've taken your own time to learn something that was vital to your work, and now you are thinking of leaving, then I can see why you'd feel upset. However, it remains that you've contributed something to your company, for which you were paid, and you owe it to them to tell them how it works. It's their fault that they've let this situation come about, I would admit. You have two options. 1 - quit. 2 - do what they ask. I'll add one thing - no matter how bad you may think they have treated you, revenge may seem like a great option now, but I reckon you'd do better to leave a good name, not burn any bridges, and not create a company who will advertise thier displeasure in you to the local marketplace, to the people who you may one day be asking for work. It also feels good to know you've given your best. Don't let yourself be stolen from, but if you need to stand up for yourself, do it visibly so there can be no doubt as to your claim and your motives. Otherwise, the person you stand a chance of hurting is yourself. And finally, if you want to work in development, you should expect to put your own time into learning new technologies, that's just part of the game as far as I can see. By the way, welcome to code project :-) Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++
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I have been a silent observer of Codeproject. But I was forced to get the membership today to post this post here. Reason is In my company, I know some critical technology which nobody knows. Now they came to know that I am trying for some better options. So all of a sudden they have asked me give full training to some fellow employees which are very junior. Even they made them to sit just beside me. I feel like my privacy is hampered and for god sake I wish to tell my boss that I am getting this salary for the work I do not to give training for free. I have taken so much hard work to learn it by my own. I too did not get any help from the people who know it before.. Why I may be giving it so cheaply. What do you think is this fair? Olmert
O`mert wrote:
In my company, I know some critical technology which nobody knows
O`mert wrote:
I have taken so much hard work to learn it by my own.
O`mert wrote:
they have asked me give full training to some fellow employees
You have been hired because of some skills that you know. You also spend some of your out of work time improving what you know. Are you telling us that you spent none of your time at work gaining experience in this technology? I feel that if your employer is asking you to provide training on material that you were expected to know in order to perform your job, then it is a fair and reasonable expectation. More to the point I hope you give the assignment your best effort. I have never been a fan of people who try to keep knowledge or skill to themselves. If I know something that can make others perform better/faster/etc then I try to share the information/technique. That is part of being a team player. If they were asking you to teach a subject that you have some expertise in, but that was not related to your work, then I could see your dilemna. Oh by the way. What would Code Project be like if all of the authors felt the way you do. -- modified at 7:46 Thursday 25th May, 2006
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I have been a silent observer of Codeproject. But I was forced to get the membership today to post this post here. Reason is In my company, I know some critical technology which nobody knows. Now they came to know that I am trying for some better options. So all of a sudden they have asked me give full training to some fellow employees which are very junior. Even they made them to sit just beside me. I feel like my privacy is hampered and for god sake I wish to tell my boss that I am getting this salary for the work I do not to give training for free. I have taken so much hard work to learn it by my own. I too did not get any help from the people who know it before.. Why I may be giving it so cheaply. What do you think is this fair? Olmert
Believe me, being the only one with the "special knowledge" is not in the company's best interest. What if you're run over by an elephant, or your turban catches fire and burns your head completely off your shoulders? The company is left with a a bunch of junior programmers that can't pick up the slack. If they want you to train other employees during work hours, then do it, and stop whining like a little girl.
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001 -
I have been a silent observer of Codeproject. But I was forced to get the membership today to post this post here. Reason is In my company, I know some critical technology which nobody knows. Now they came to know that I am trying for some better options. So all of a sudden they have asked me give full training to some fellow employees which are very junior. Even they made them to sit just beside me. I feel like my privacy is hampered and for god sake I wish to tell my boss that I am getting this salary for the work I do not to give training for free. I have taken so much hard work to learn it by my own. I too did not get any help from the people who know it before.. Why I may be giving it so cheaply. What do you think is this fair? Olmert
What happens to the company and others there is you leave/are injured etc.? You have a responsibility to them. If you did not get help then remember that you are treating others the way you were treated. Should this attitude continue? Elaine :rose: The tigress is here :-D
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Believe me, being the only one with the "special knowledge" is not in the company's best interest. What if you're run over by an elephant, or your turban catches fire and burns your head completely off your shoulders? The company is left with a a bunch of junior programmers that can't pick up the slack. If they want you to train other employees during work hours, then do it, and stop whining like a little girl.
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001 -
John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
What if you're run over by an elephant, or your turban catches fire and burns your head completely off your shoulders?
As subtle as ever John, but you're right :) The tigress is here :-D
:) Some people never see the message because of the delivery, but hey, that's their own mental handicap. :)
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001
