Is this fair? [modified]
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First off, life is rarely fair. And a good job too, I'd hate to think all the bad things happen to me because I deserve it :-D Secondly, Is this critical technology documented? If not, why not? If you are looking for better options outside your company, then your boss is doing the right thing to protect his business. If you have the 'technologoy' documented, then your boss might not be forced to take this action. A good team member, is always willing to share knowledge with his team-mates - even if that knowledge was earned the hard way. There is nothing big and clever about making somebody else do it the hard way, if you can make it easier for them. So whilst you may not think it is fair, I think it sounds very reasonable and that there are good lessons for you to learn in the process. Michael CP Blog [^] Development Blog [^]
My views exactly! Documentation is the way to go when you are leaving a job - after that, you may be required to help the person taking over your particular role. As part of this process, some training may be required. In many ways, you should be thinking about your future, and forget about the past. After all, you don't know who'll be your next interviewer, or what 'reputation' you are being given in the industry. The world is getting smaller and one must be careful. It is always better to be seen in the right way, than to have a 'bad' reputation that will be difficult to amend! A positive attitude is always the best policy in this line of work! All the best for your new endeavours! Paul Mu
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I have been a silent observer of Codeproject. But I was forced to get the membership today to post this post here. Reason is In my company, I know some critical technology which nobody knows. Now they came to know that I am trying for some better options. So all of a sudden they have asked me give full training to some fellow employees which are very junior. Even they made them to sit just beside me. I feel like my privacy is hampered and for god sake I wish to tell my boss that I am getting this salary for the work I do not to give training for free. I have taken so much hard work to learn it by my own. I too did not get any help from the people who know it before.. Why I may be giving it so cheaply. What do you think is this fair? Olmert
Yes, I think that this is very fair -- and I wouldn't be suprised if taking on this duty is actually a requirement of your contract. At my workplace, there is language in the contract that says something along the lines of: "Your duties may shift from your job description over time as deemed necessary by the management team". In fact, CodeProject wouldn't exist weren't it for people doing for free what you are now getting paid for. What would be unfair would be for your company to make you redundant after you trained another employee who they were paying less (although obviously it would be their loss from a brain drain perspective). Timothy http://www.anatone.net
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I have been a silent observer of Codeproject. But I was forced to get the membership today to post this post here. Reason is In my company, I know some critical technology which nobody knows. Now they came to know that I am trying for some better options. So all of a sudden they have asked me give full training to some fellow employees which are very junior. Even they made them to sit just beside me. I feel like my privacy is hampered and for god sake I wish to tell my boss that I am getting this salary for the work I do not to give training for free. I have taken so much hard work to learn it by my own. I too did not get any help from the people who know it before.. Why I may be giving it so cheaply. What do you think is this fair? Olmert
I think its fair simply because they've PAIDED you to learn it and produce a product. While you were never sent on any formal training and you had to learn it yourself without any help... that was training for two reasons 1) you were allowed to learn persumable at your own pace and probably to make mistakes along the way and 2) they paid you during that period of time. If you'd prefer not to share that knowledge then I think its only fair that your employeer ask for their money back during the period of time that you were training yourself.
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I have been a silent observer of Codeproject. But I was forced to get the membership today to post this post here. Reason is In my company, I know some critical technology which nobody knows. Now they came to know that I am trying for some better options. So all of a sudden they have asked me give full training to some fellow employees which are very junior. Even they made them to sit just beside me. I feel like my privacy is hampered and for god sake I wish to tell my boss that I am getting this salary for the work I do not to give training for free. I have taken so much hard work to learn it by my own. I too did not get any help from the people who know it before.. Why I may be giving it so cheaply. What do you think is this fair? Olmert
O`mert wrote:
In my company, I know some critical technology which nobody knows.
Funnily, I will be starting a project of system study and documentation for exactly such a situation - where the person who has developed the system is not happy to share anything about the project. So we are there to do reverse engineering and document everything.
O`mert wrote:
I feel like my privacy is hampered
Privacy is hampered ? :sigh: - are they asking you to train them at your home?
O`mert wrote:
I have taken so much hard work to learn it by my own.
Why did you do it? - to get a job - you got it, end of story.
O`mert wrote:
I too did not get any help from the people who know it
I am sure you cursed those people at that time. So if you behave in the same way, whats the difference between you and them? In summary, it is not only fair, it is sound business practice on part of your employer. What *might* have been unfair would be if they planned to fire you after the training was complete. Shreekar http://shreekarishere.blogspot.com[^]
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I have been a silent observer of Codeproject. But I was forced to get the membership today to post this post here. Reason is In my company, I know some critical technology which nobody knows. Now they came to know that I am trying for some better options. So all of a sudden they have asked me give full training to some fellow employees which are very junior. Even they made them to sit just beside me. I feel like my privacy is hampered and for god sake I wish to tell my boss that I am getting this salary for the work I do not to give training for free. I have taken so much hard work to learn it by my own. I too did not get any help from the people who know it before.. Why I may be giving it so cheaply. What do you think is this fair? Olmert
My take would be that if you learnt this technology on company time then they have already paid you for it and it is fair that you share your knowledge. Share the web sites, name of books or other material that you used so that the other employees go through your struggle and value the knowledge in the same way. Dont give the answers; guide them instead. If you learnt this on your own time then you should ask for a raise and get it. Tell the company that it is distracting having people sitting beside you. Being asked to share your knowledge could be because the company may see a risk if you leave or cannot report to work or are on vacation. This is fair on part of the company. In this industry my personal experience is that only by sharing knowledge can we all grow. I wouldnt have survived without reading all that free code and ideas on the internet. I know its hurts to give away something that you struggled to learn yourself. If your managers are understanding then maybe you should discuss your concerns with them. But dont presume that they will go along with you. They may point out how you have benefitted from the company. The last option I guess is to sell yourself to the highest bidder. Not necessarily a good option because you would have gained some recognition and a new employer may not give you that.
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I have been a silent observer of Codeproject. But I was forced to get the membership today to post this post here. Reason is In my company, I know some critical technology which nobody knows. Now they came to know that I am trying for some better options. So all of a sudden they have asked me give full training to some fellow employees which are very junior. Even they made them to sit just beside me. I feel like my privacy is hampered and for god sake I wish to tell my boss that I am getting this salary for the work I do not to give training for free. I have taken so much hard work to learn it by my own. I too did not get any help from the people who know it before.. Why I may be giving it so cheaply. What do you think is this fair? Olmert
Its annoys the hell out me that everything is secret. Don't help anybody else! Don't share knowledge! Be selfish! Why should I help some-one if I don't get paid! Why share knowledge that would help everybody when I can keep it secret so hopefully I can make $10.00 JUST FOR ME! Should I resus the poor person! Hey Mate! You want an ambulance ? Cost you $100.00! Hey Kid, want to know what 2 plus 2 is? Give me five dollars and I'll tell you! Make a dollar! Screw your work mate! Make another dollar! Let them suffer!
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O`mert wrote:
In my company, I know some critical technology which nobody knows.
Critical to the company ? In that case, it's lax of your boss to allow this situation to exist.
O`mert wrote:
So all of a sudden they have asked me give full training to some fellow employees which are very junior.
Obviously, they expect you to leave, and so they want you to pass on your knowledge before you do. I would expect any job I left to spend some time making sure that I wasn't taking any critical knowledge with me ( that is, passing it on ).
O`mert wrote:
I do not to give training for free.
Unless he's asking you to give it at home, he's not asking you to give it for free. He's directing you how to spend the time they pay you to spend at work.
O`mert wrote:
I have taken so much hard work to learn it by my own.
Do you mean that you've learned in your own time ? If the situation is that you've taken your own time to learn something that was vital to your work, and now you are thinking of leaving, then I can see why you'd feel upset. However, it remains that you've contributed something to your company, for which you were paid, and you owe it to them to tell them how it works. It's their fault that they've let this situation come about, I would admit. You have two options. 1 - quit. 2 - do what they ask. I'll add one thing - no matter how bad you may think they have treated you, revenge may seem like a great option now, but I reckon you'd do better to leave a good name, not burn any bridges, and not create a company who will advertise thier displeasure in you to the local marketplace, to the people who you may one day be asking for work. It also feels good to know you've given your best. Don't let yourself be stolen from, but if you need to stand up for yourself, do it visibly so there can be no doubt as to your claim and your motives. Otherwise, the person you stand a chance of hurting is yourself. And finally, if you want to work in development, you should expect to put your own time into learning new technologies, that's just part of the game as far as I can see. By the way, welcome to code project :-) Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++
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I have been a silent observer of Codeproject. But I was forced to get the membership today to post this post here. Reason is In my company, I know some critical technology which nobody knows. Now they came to know that I am trying for some better options. So all of a sudden they have asked me give full training to some fellow employees which are very junior. Even they made them to sit just beside me. I feel like my privacy is hampered and for god sake I wish to tell my boss that I am getting this salary for the work I do not to give training for free. I have taken so much hard work to learn it by my own. I too did not get any help from the people who know it before.. Why I may be giving it so cheaply. What do you think is this fair? Olmert
My previous employer took me and my programming knowledge for granted. My role was a Management Information Developer (i.e. working with figures and reports etc) but they knew I could program and used me to bypass their expensive IT department. I waited until they wanted me to build something really important then refused to do it unless I got a promotion and payrise (which actually only brought me in line with the other two MI Devs anyway). I didn't just refuse point blank but pointed out that they were taking advantage of me, had saved themselves several thousand pounds and that I was paid less than the other two. I got promoted and a got a £3K payrise :-D. (I now work for a great software company as a programmer)
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I would like to add, on top of the 2 excellent previous answer, that it is a chance for you, not a burden. That means they finally realize how skilled and precious you are! Capitalize on that, ask a rise, a new office, a new parking spot, a personal and young blonde secretary! Go on man! :laugh:
It *may* be a chance. But it's much more likely that by having a junior, less expensive employee being "able" to do the work, they remove the risk of being put over a barrel by the orignal poster of this thread when he decides to expect a return on his effort.;P Whether that is fair or not is a mute point. Maybe you shouldn't have bothered learning this important technology in the first place then your employer wouldn't have gotten one over on you? Then you'd be happy right?;) Personally I'd hand over the training. Being the only "expert" is a double-edged sword. Right now you have the knowledge and are happy with that. When you see the next great thing and want to move on you can't because your employer needs you in that role. You take your choice. I have been a developer and a manager, right now I'm back as a developer and loving it. Here we use a group blog, if we find something new out or learn a new trick we share it. We are secure that we are working for a good company and like our colleagues. Perhaps the answer to your problem is..... MOVE to an employer you like and is aligned with your ideals. However from the little you have said I feel you are the sort of guy who likes being the only guy who knows because you have gone to so much trouble to learn it. Working with people like that is incredibly hard and I don't envy the poor junior who your employer has forced upon you. Good luck anyway my friend.
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Roger, That perfectly suits me. This company has never contributed. I have learnt my own before joining this company. My experience is very bad from the people who already knew it.They never help me. This company hired me for these skills . It was such a hard time for me and giving it so easily has not been so easy. Olmert
The company has been paying you for years while you picked up the skills. You have worked yourself into a corner where only you can do this job and the company can't use you for anything else. You have made yourself vital and therefore dangerous for the company in this one thing and useless otherwise. By getting someone else up to speed, the company is more secure if you go under a bus or leave, but they are also making it possible for you to work on other things and learn more. If you weren't fighting against your company, you might get somewhere. As it is you are just boxing yourself in. Have some confidence. Train up the new guy so he can take some load off you, if you are as good as you think you will be able to take on new projects and do more and better work for the company and help yourself progress.
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The company has been paying you for years while you picked up the skills. You have worked yourself into a corner where only you can do this job and the company can't use you for anything else. You have made yourself vital and therefore dangerous for the company in this one thing and useless otherwise. By getting someone else up to speed, the company is more secure if you go under a bus or leave, but they are also making it possible for you to work on other things and learn more. If you weren't fighting against your company, you might get somewhere. As it is you are just boxing yourself in. Have some confidence. Train up the new guy so he can take some load off you, if you are as good as you think you will be able to take on new projects and do more and better work for the company and help yourself progress.
Why does it always happend to software guys, why doesn't a senior doctor train its juniors to do the operation without the senior one :mad: X| I only work where i get "Earn" or "Learn". pay good attension towards "LEARN" word :omg: you see Learn is not possible without "Earn", so company is paying me for my job not for my learnings :cool: --------------------------- http://www.idlsol.com