Adnan's emotions... A white paper [modified]
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Judah Himango wrote:
I don't buy the nonsense that everyone's way to God is alright
That's strange to me. So to you, the only way to God is the Jesus way - any other way won't get to God. To Adnan, it's through Mohammed's ways and no other. And to Hindus, through temples and Hindu prayers (though moderate Hindus believe that Christians and Muslims eventually pray to the same single-god-entity as Hindus do). Why cannot there be multiple paths to a god (or gods)? Why go by the "my belief is the only true belief" theory? Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
Currently working on C++/CLI in Action for Manning Publications. Also visit the Ultimate Toolbox blog (New)Nishant Sivakumar wrote:
to Hindus, through temples and Hindu prayers
Because some are true and some are not. :) If a man came along and said, "money is my god, and the more I spend the more he's happy", that doesn't mean he is right. I reject the notion that people should be punished for something in their "past life" which they've no knowledge of; I am not a Hindu. I reject the notion the conquest and robbery is God's way; I am not a follower of Mohammed. Jews are just about right; they are looking for Messiah (even in modern times, they're still looking for him), but they've turned faith into God into a ritual ceremony; I am not a practicer of Judaism. But I do accept the reality that God is all about love and forgiveness; I believe in Jesus, who is the Messiah. You can't have real belief in God and believe that all ways lead to God; it doesn't work if God is real. You can't be intellectually honest with yourself if you say, "I believe in Jesus", only to turn around and say that everyone from Hindus to Buddhists are living right before God. Why? God has rules for right living. If he didn't, there would be no good and evil, no real right and wrong beyond human speculation. One thing Jesus said is that no one comes to God but through him. He was specially setup as Messiah for this purpose. We don't call him Messiah just because he was some old guy that talked about God alot; he is Messiah because he was specially appointed by God so that everyone -- whether Jew, gentile, Hindu, any race, color, religion, can come to God through Him. (see John 14:6[^]). Whereas previously God had picked a small group of people, Israel, to be a people of God (this was thanks to some promises God gave to a few certain folks for their faith in God), Jesus swung the doors wide open for all humanity to come into light, to know the real God, the one and only. If I have this knowledge, and I am honest in believing that this Jesus is the person he claimed to be, how could I ever say "all paths lead to God", when they clearly don't? (As a someone who tried the do-it-your-own-way of living, I can say most paths lead downward!) To say all paths lead to God is nothing short of a lie meant to pacify differences between religions. That's not what God is about. God is about
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i dont know about hinduism but if you obeserve abrahamic faith closely then you will find similarity that all talks about same God which is called yahweh by Judah hamingo,God by C.Garaus and Allah by me.Different language same meaning.Yes,its sad but true that same GOd become disputed due to People who were sent in ancien times by God,His representatives who were named as David(AS),Moses(AS),Jesus(AS) and Muhammad(SAW).I often use analogy of a product promoted by marketing agents.God had a product or say a "message" which He wanted to be promoted to people of earth.Now I think its a bit weird or illogical that God goes door to door to spread His message.It doesnt even happen in our world and only marketting agents go door to door to spread "word" about their product.Now if a message of Agents is not understood properly then should Owner of product be blamed for the product?now two people who heard about product from two different agents will argue everytime and abuse each other becuase they were not capable to grasp the main message of product owner.This is what happened with these 3 faiths.My analogy doesnt work cent percent for religions but some how its relevent to how message of God spread on earth by few people.
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That's largely based on the assumption that there is no God. If there is no God, then to an outsider, it seems that religion is harmless so long as it's a open to all new ideas, tolerant of everything and everyone, adhering to the "all paths lead to the same mountain" kind of thinking. I hear that a lot: "your belief, Judah, is harmless so long as you're not hurting anyone". Look at it from the other perspective for a moment. If there is a God, then not everyone or everything should be tolerated, assuming good and evil exist. This sounds nasty and evil, but in practice it's logical and required. For one, we can all agree that killing another human for no reason at all is evil and shouldn't be tolerated. If some acts are evil, then not all paths lead to the same mountain. If some of the paths -- ways of living your life -- be that religion or just plain ethics, lead to an evil way of live, a way of life that is not God-honoring, then we can't say that all ways are acceptable. This is what I am concerned about most. Those who just do whatever's right in their own eyes live a life free to do whatever they please. Sounds good, right? I tried living that way for awhile. But where did it get me? Pornography, insatiable lusting, all lust no love, in the sex department. That's a dark, downward spiral for anybody. Doing whatever's right in your own eyes is flexible; you can have your own personal rules; for instance, be kind to others. But your own rules you're of course free to bend and break anytime you want without consequence. What I'm saying is this: without God (and I don't mean in a religious way, but in a personal relationship way), free living is hardly free; instead you become slaves to addictions that you can ruin your life with. What I've found out through all this is that the real free living is found by living a Godly life, not by following the whims of your personal wants and desires. The real free life, ironically, is the servant life, living for God and living for other instead of yourself. Nish, I hope that is something you'll find out in your life. Now, you're right about all this painful bashing of other religions. You know what, I can't speak for everybody here, since we all come from different backgrounds. I know for those believing that Jesus is the Messiah, those folks saying all these nasty things about Islam, they're not following Jesus too closely. Jesus said that of all of our Scripture, of everything written in the Jewish Law, the whole point of all of it, boils down to 2 things: love God, a
Judah Himango wrote:
but you know what, I consider him a friend anyways and we've crossed some bridges at the same time.
Thankyou.I learn a lot of things from your blog and as I always say that despite of difference between our thoughts which was not supposed by Abraham at His time,I admire your efforts to promote your religion to outer world and since we muslims were allowed to take reference from yuor torah the OT so naturally i am inclined towards the things which originate from some jewish book resource.
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Paul was visciously attacked by his own Jewish brethren, yet he would have given up his place in heaven so they could be saved.
"Live long and prosper." - Spock
Jason Henderson
blogYep, good point. He mentioned this to the Romans, when he said,
At the same time, you need to know that I carry with me at all times a huge sorrow. It's an enormous pain deep within me, and I'm never free of it. I'm not exaggerating—Christ and the Holy Spirit are my witnesses. It's the Jews...If there were any way I could be cursed by the Messiah so they could be blessed by him, I'd do it in a minute. They're my family. I grew up with them. They had everything going for them—family, glory, covenants, revelation, worship, promises, to say nothing of being the race that produced the Messiah, who is God over everything, always.
Tech, life, family, faith: Give me a visit. I'm currently blogging about: Goof around music jam with my brothers (with video) The apostle Paul, modernly speaking: Epistles of Paul Judah Himango
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Nishant Sivakumar wrote:
to Hindus, through temples and Hindu prayers
Because some are true and some are not. :) If a man came along and said, "money is my god, and the more I spend the more he's happy", that doesn't mean he is right. I reject the notion that people should be punished for something in their "past life" which they've no knowledge of; I am not a Hindu. I reject the notion the conquest and robbery is God's way; I am not a follower of Mohammed. Jews are just about right; they are looking for Messiah (even in modern times, they're still looking for him), but they've turned faith into God into a ritual ceremony; I am not a practicer of Judaism. But I do accept the reality that God is all about love and forgiveness; I believe in Jesus, who is the Messiah. You can't have real belief in God and believe that all ways lead to God; it doesn't work if God is real. You can't be intellectually honest with yourself if you say, "I believe in Jesus", only to turn around and say that everyone from Hindus to Buddhists are living right before God. Why? God has rules for right living. If he didn't, there would be no good and evil, no real right and wrong beyond human speculation. One thing Jesus said is that no one comes to God but through him. He was specially setup as Messiah for this purpose. We don't call him Messiah just because he was some old guy that talked about God alot; he is Messiah because he was specially appointed by God so that everyone -- whether Jew, gentile, Hindu, any race, color, religion, can come to God through Him. (see John 14:6[^]). Whereas previously God had picked a small group of people, Israel, to be a people of God (this was thanks to some promises God gave to a few certain folks for their faith in God), Jesus swung the doors wide open for all humanity to come into light, to know the real God, the one and only. If I have this knowledge, and I am honest in believing that this Jesus is the person he claimed to be, how could I ever say "all paths lead to God", when they clearly don't? (As a someone who tried the do-it-your-own-way of living, I can say most paths lead downward!) To say all paths lead to God is nothing short of a lie meant to pacify differences between religions. That's not what God is about. God is about
Judah Himango wrote:
I reject the notion that people should be punished for something in their "past life" which they've no knowledge of; I am not a Hindu.
I don't think modern Hinduism promoted reincarnation and karma, all that much :-) My mom is a Hindu - she doesn't believe in that stuff at all.
Judah Himango wrote:
You can't have real belief in God and believe that all ways lead to God; it doesn't work if God is real.
Yep - I understand that this is so. When Christians say god, and when Hindus say god - they are talking about two different things.
Judah Himango wrote:
If I have this knowledge, and I am honest in believing that this Jesus is the person he claimed to be, how could I ever say "all paths lead to God", when they clearly don't?
The same theory can be used with equal effect by a Muslim or a Hindu - they could also say "only my path leads to god". But then, that's what's happening today in the world. If a god did exist, I'd be tremendously surprised if he or she or it treated people based on whether they believed in him or not. That'd make it an egoistic god - which kinda goes against the "nice guy god" people think about.
Judah Himango wrote:
No, some people are wrong and some people are on a downward spiral. That's why I'm saying these things; to give a hand to those on the downward spirals.
But to the god-believing billions who don't believe in Jesus, your way is the downward spiral, just as theirs is to you. Also, while you are not intentionally attempting to sound insulting, saying that non-Jesus-followers are on a downward spiral can be pretty rude :-) Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
Currently working on C++/CLI in Action for Manning Publications. Also visit the Ultimate Toolbox blog (New) -
espeir wrote:
espeir Siddiqi espeir Siddiqi espeir Siddiqi espeir Siddiqi espeir Siddiqi espeir Siddiqi espeir Siddiqi espeir Siddiqi espeir Siddiqi
Repost! :-D Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
Currently working on C++/CLI in Action for Manning Publications. Also visit the Ultimate Toolbox blog (New)Nishant Sivakumar wrote:
espeir wrote: espeir Siddiqi espeir Siddiqi espeir Siddiqi espeir Siddiqi espeir Siddiqi espeir Siddiqi espeir Siddiqi espeir Siddiqi espeir Siddiqi Repost!
I actually laughed outloud at that one. :laugh: ---------- Some problems are so complex that you have to be highly intelligent and well informed just to be undecided about them. - Laurence J. Peters
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I agree with all this. And I guess I'm trying to understand this with modern events.
Judah Himango wrote:
it's apparent he opted to forgive and welcome back with open arms, rather than condemn to hell.
But that is when they asked to be forgiven.In the meantime, does he expect all of us to close our eyes and take a sword to the head? I mean if that happens, all that believe in him are dead. I really do not mind living next to jews, muslims and everyone else for that matter. I just get upset with these terrorist, and when we try to defend ourselves, we end up being the racist ones. It makes no sense. We should be able to defend ourselves and still be good Christians, right? My mom told me once that "while we all don't speak the same language, everyone in the world undestands an asskicking"
kgaddy wrote:
In the meantime, does he expect all of us to close our eyes and take a sword to the head?
Yes: Matthew 5 38-45.
kgaddy wrote:
I mean if that happens, all that believe in him are dead.
No - under Christianity, to die with the teachings of the scripture - tolerance, kindness, respect, understanding, forgiveness - in your heart, mind, and actions, is the pathway to everlasting life with the Father. - F
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Nishant various dialogues in various forums(offcourse not CP's soapbox) are being taken places for many years and authorites from christianity islam and judaism are keep in touch and trying to understand each other's faith and also discovering similarties between all abrahamic faith so i have no worries that these 3 mentioned religions are not compatible.I cant say similar about Hinduism because its entirely different than religions based on abrahamic faith and I think hinduism and islam is not a universal issue as such conflicts only exist between India and Pakistan only so i would rather call it a political issue rather a religious one. People like stan,espeir and kagaddy will always be ready to increase gap between two faiths no matter whatever you do.the recent attempt by Jorgen is the perfect example+espeir and kagaddy personally asked my opinion about sucide bombing but as I knew that they were jusing being naughty and they proved in latest posts.Such minorities offcourse harmful for masses but good thing is that masses ignore them as well.There will be hardly 2/3 muslim members who will be active in Soapbox.I only find A.A other than me who posts here otherwise most of the time this group of thugs is damned by people of their own side and many of them would be follower of their book as well.
Nishant Sivakumar wrote:
A lot of people are now seemingly attacking Islamic terrorism
No this has been happening since ages,its just media is so powerful that you have access to everything very easily via net or tv.
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Adnan Siddiqi wrote:
authorites from christianity islam and judaism are keep in touch and trying to understand each other's faith and also discovering similarties between all abrahamic faith so i have no worries that these 3 mentioned religions are not compatible
There is no way that these three religions can be compatible. Jesus is the son of god, or He isn't. People who want to achieve compatibility can only do so by abandoning their own faith. The mistake is to confuse compatibility with understanding. I think you're wrong ( sorry :-) ), but that doesn't mean I hate you, or deny you the right to your beliefs. Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ Metal Musings - Rex and my new metal blog
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Bitterness??? You're justifying the actions of people who kill thousands of innocents! Now you're upset that America got sick of the Middle East's BS and is now mopping the floor with your butts! Get over it. You guys already lost. We're just cleaning up before we turn off the lights and go home.
espeir wrote:
You're justifying the actions of people who kill thousands of innocents!
I must have missed the thread where he said that, can you point it out to me ? Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ Metal Musings - Rex and my new metal blog
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Judah Himango wrote:
I don't buy the nonsense that everyone's way to God is alright
That's strange to me. So to you, the only way to God is the Jesus way - any other way won't get to God. To Adnan, it's through Mohammed's ways and no other. And to Hindus, through temples and Hindu prayers (though moderate Hindus believe that Christians and Muslims eventually pray to the same single-god-entity as Hindus do). Why cannot there be multiple paths to a god (or gods)? Why go by the "my belief is the only true belief" theory? Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
Currently working on C++/CLI in Action for Manning Publications. Also visit the Ultimate Toolbox blog (New)Nishant Sivakumar wrote:
Why cannot there be multiple paths to a god (or gods)? Why go by the "my belief is the only true belief" theory?
For you is your religion, and for me is mine.(Quran 109:6) if some muslim doesnt follow this verse which talks about tolerence with non quran followers then its not religion's fault.Jesus(AS) said something similar which mentioned by Judah.If chritians dont follow it then its not problem with belief itself.
Nishant Sivakumar wrote:
To Adnan, it's through Mohammed's ways and no other.
no this is not correct.As a muslim i am asked to believe that every prophet from Adam to Muhammad propagated same message of God.I dontknow u know or not but unless we accept every prophet from Adam to Jesus and then Muhammad then we cant be declared as Muslim according to the islamic system.Muslims dont have issue with Abraham,david,solomon etc.The issue was all that we believe that God's message was tempered in middle by ancient followers(Jews and then chirstian).Jews might consider christians similar to muslims because they would think that christians comeup with new cult by adding new things in OT and then named it as NT by Jesus;rejecting every teachings of OT.
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Judah Himango wrote:
I don't buy the nonsense that everyone's way to God is alright
That's strange to me. So to you, the only way to God is the Jesus way - any other way won't get to God. To Adnan, it's through Mohammed's ways and no other. And to Hindus, through temples and Hindu prayers (though moderate Hindus believe that Christians and Muslims eventually pray to the same single-god-entity as Hindus do). Why cannot there be multiple paths to a god (or gods)? Why go by the "my belief is the only true belief" theory? Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
Currently working on C++/CLI in Action for Manning Publications. Also visit the Ultimate Toolbox blog (New)He's sugar-coating his my-religion-is-better-than-your-religion argument. If what he says is true, then only 2 out of 6 billion people have even a chance of getting into heaven. Out of those 2 billion, 1.2 billion of them are Catholic, which he claims he isn't. Out of a maximum of 1.2 billion, only a small percentage of them adhere to religion in its entirety and a lot of them believe passivly in their religion. So basically, if Juduh is right and there is only one path to heaven, a large percetage of people are going to hell. I personally belive in God, but don't believe in religion, salvation, heaven and hell, or one true path. I believe in God from a scientific standpoint, not a theological one. If God truly created religion, then God, who obviosly has the foresight, would have seen what a mockery religion will be if He were to try to spread His word and make everyone believe in Him without altering their minds and forcing them to believe in Him. The problem with religion is it only preaches an active God and leaves no room for a passive, or sometimes active, one. I can't claim that I am right on this, but I cannot follow blindly just because a book says so, especially one that leaves a lot of things to interpretation.
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espeir wrote:
You're justifying the actions of people who kill thousands of innocents!
I must have missed the thread where he said that, can you point it out to me ? Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ Metal Musings - Rex and my new metal blog
There are many. I don't have it readily available, but I asked if he condemned suicide bombers. His response (after a week of dodging) was that he condemns suicide bombers...because they target Muslims in mosques. He had a long drawn out explanation as to how the Quran states that it's OK to kill over "corruption in the land" yada yada yada that justified terrorism.
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Nishant Sivakumar wrote:
Why cannot there be multiple paths to a god (or gods)? Why go by the "my belief is the only true belief" theory?
For you is your religion, and for me is mine.(Quran 109:6) if some muslim doesnt follow this verse which talks about tolerence with non quran followers then its not religion's fault.Jesus(AS) said something similar which mentioned by Judah.If chritians dont follow it then its not problem with belief itself.
Nishant Sivakumar wrote:
To Adnan, it's through Mohammed's ways and no other.
no this is not correct.As a muslim i am asked to believe that every prophet from Adam to Muhammad propagated same message of God.I dontknow u know or not but unless we accept every prophet from Adam to Jesus and then Muhammad then we cant be declared as Muslim according to the islamic system.Muslims dont have issue with Abraham,david,solomon etc.The issue was all that we believe that God's message was tempered in middle by ancient followers(Jews and then chirstian).Jews might consider christians similar to muslims because they would think that christians comeup with new cult by adding new things in OT and then named it as NT by Jesus;rejecting every teachings of OT.
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Adnan Siddiqi wrote:
if some muslim doesnt follow this verse which talks about tolerence with non quran followers then its not religion's fault.Jesus(AS) said something similar which mentioned by Judah.If chritians dont follow it then its not problem with belief itself.
So what happens if a Muslim decides to convert to Christianity? According to Muslims in Afghanistan, he should be killed. What do you think about that?
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kgaddy wrote:
I think you don't understand. If you belive something, then that means that contrary beliefs, are to you, wrong. That is what belief means. But, that does not mean we cannot respect each other and allow each other to live our lives as we please.
I understand the core idea that leads to this - but I think it's not good for society as a whole. I am an atheist - so it doesn't really matter to me what religion someone believes in. But I don't want to be treated with suspicion by someone because he/she feels I am god-less. In a way, I think moderate Hinduism is the mildest of the religions in the world today - since there is no specific way to reach the single-god, moderate hindus are ok with the idea that christians, muslims pray to the same god that they pray to. That allows for social compatibility. The islamic and christian idea of reaching god is slightly more extreme - they aren't compatible with other religions. While this incompatibility is kept peaceful, it's okay - but there are always going to be a bunch of idiots (in all religions) who'd use this as an excuse to attack other religions - this eventually leads to acts of terrorism.
kgaddy wrote:
But this does not give the 2 groups the right to kill each other.
Agreed. Whether you are religious, or agnostic, or atheist, no one has the right to kill another. Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
Currently working on C++/CLI in Action for Manning Publications. Also visit the Ultimate Toolbox blog (New)Nishant Sivakumar wrote:
but there are always going to be a bunch of idiots (in all religions) who'd use this as an excuse to attack other religions
I think the thing to realise is that this sort of xenophobia would lead to people attacking others if they were religious or not. Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ Metal Musings - Rex and my new metal blog
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He's sugar-coating his my-religion-is-better-than-your-religion argument. If what he says is true, then only 2 out of 6 billion people have even a chance of getting into heaven. Out of those 2 billion, 1.2 billion of them are Catholic, which he claims he isn't. Out of a maximum of 1.2 billion, only a small percentage of them adhere to religion in its entirety and a lot of them believe passivly in their religion. So basically, if Juduh is right and there is only one path to heaven, a large percetage of people are going to hell. I personally belive in God, but don't believe in religion, salvation, heaven and hell, or one true path. I believe in God from a scientific standpoint, not a theological one. If God truly created religion, then God, who obviosly has the foresight, would have seen what a mockery religion will be if He were to try to spread His word and make everyone believe in Him without altering their minds and forcing them to believe in Him. The problem with religion is it only preaches an active God and leaves no room for a passive, or sometimes active, one. I can't claim that I am right on this, but I cannot follow blindly just because a book says so, especially one that leaves a lot of things to interpretation.
There are II kinds of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who understand Roman numerals. Web - Blog - RSS - Math
Ok so, you belive a lot of people will go to heaven, and Judah believes less will go. So what? You have your belief, he has his. When you both die you will find out. And everyone thinks their religion is better than every one elses. Think about it, if you thought the other guy's religion was better, you would convert. I honestly think my religion is better than yours. But I respect your right to choose you own path. And I fully expect that you think your beliefs are better than mine. My mom told me once that "while we all don't speak the same language, everyone in the world undestands an asskicking" -- modified at 16:34 Wednesday 14th June, 2006
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Judah Himango wrote:
I reject the notion that people should be punished for something in their "past life" which they've no knowledge of; I am not a Hindu.
I don't think modern Hinduism promoted reincarnation and karma, all that much :-) My mom is a Hindu - she doesn't believe in that stuff at all.
Judah Himango wrote:
You can't have real belief in God and believe that all ways lead to God; it doesn't work if God is real.
Yep - I understand that this is so. When Christians say god, and when Hindus say god - they are talking about two different things.
Judah Himango wrote:
If I have this knowledge, and I am honest in believing that this Jesus is the person he claimed to be, how could I ever say "all paths lead to God", when they clearly don't?
The same theory can be used with equal effect by a Muslim or a Hindu - they could also say "only my path leads to god". But then, that's what's happening today in the world. If a god did exist, I'd be tremendously surprised if he or she or it treated people based on whether they believed in him or not. That'd make it an egoistic god - which kinda goes against the "nice guy god" people think about.
Judah Himango wrote:
No, some people are wrong and some people are on a downward spiral. That's why I'm saying these things; to give a hand to those on the downward spirals.
But to the god-believing billions who don't believe in Jesus, your way is the downward spiral, just as theirs is to you. Also, while you are not intentionally attempting to sound insulting, saying that non-Jesus-followers are on a downward spiral can be pretty rude :-) Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
Currently working on C++/CLI in Action for Manning Publications. Also visit the Ultimate Toolbox blog (New)Nishant Sivakumar wrote:
My mom is a Hindu - she doesn't believe in that stuff at all.
But if what it means to be a Hindu moves over time, if they can keep the name and abandon parts of the belief, when what is it worth ? Were the old Hindus ( who were still Hindus ) wrong ?
Nishant Sivakumar wrote:
The same theory can be used with equal effect by a Muslim or a Hindu - they could also say "only my path leads to god".
In fact, they have to do that, if they indeed believe the tenets of Islam or Hinduism.
Nishant Sivakumar wrote:
If a god did exist, I'd be tremendously surprised if he or she or it treated people based on whether they believed in him or not
This is a common saying. However, it misses a core point. God wants to 'save' EVERYBODY, but He's actually limited. He's limited by what is 'fair'. In other words, Jesus didn't die for fun, He died because He had to, and God is unable to save anyone who doesn't take advantage of that fact. Mental assent of the existence of God doesn't help anyone.
Nishant Sivakumar wrote:
But to the god-believing billions who don't believe in Jesus, your way is the downward spiral, just as theirs is to you.
Yes, that's obviously true. The point is that those different ways are mutually exclusive. You can argue that all those ways are wrong, or that one way is right. You can't argue that they are all right, as they cancel each other out. Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ Metal Musings - Rex and my new metal blog
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Nishant Sivakumar wrote:
Why cannot there be multiple paths to a god (or gods)? Why go by the "my belief is the only true belief" theory?
For you is your religion, and for me is mine.(Quran 109:6) if some muslim doesnt follow this verse which talks about tolerence with non quran followers then its not religion's fault.Jesus(AS) said something similar which mentioned by Judah.If chritians dont follow it then its not problem with belief itself.
Nishant Sivakumar wrote:
To Adnan, it's through Mohammed's ways and no other.
no this is not correct.As a muslim i am asked to believe that every prophet from Adam to Muhammad propagated same message of God.I dontknow u know or not but unless we accept every prophet from Adam to Jesus and then Muhammad then we cant be declared as Muslim according to the islamic system.Muslims dont have issue with Abraham,david,solomon etc.The issue was all that we believe that God's message was tempered in middle by ancient followers(Jews and then chirstian).Jews might consider christians similar to muslims because they would think that christians comeup with new cult by adding new things in OT and then named it as NT by Jesus;rejecting every teachings of OT.
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One thing I still don't understand - if Jesus was a prophet, but Christians tampered with what He said, how do you know what Jesus said ? Do you have access to an alternative set of writings that you regard as Jesus' message untampered with ? Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ Metal Musings - Rex and my new metal blog
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He's sugar-coating his my-religion-is-better-than-your-religion argument. If what he says is true, then only 2 out of 6 billion people have even a chance of getting into heaven. Out of those 2 billion, 1.2 billion of them are Catholic, which he claims he isn't. Out of a maximum of 1.2 billion, only a small percentage of them adhere to religion in its entirety and a lot of them believe passivly in their religion. So basically, if Juduh is right and there is only one path to heaven, a large percetage of people are going to hell. I personally belive in God, but don't believe in religion, salvation, heaven and hell, or one true path. I believe in God from a scientific standpoint, not a theological one. If God truly created religion, then God, who obviosly has the foresight, would have seen what a mockery religion will be if He were to try to spread His word and make everyone believe in Him without altering their minds and forcing them to believe in Him. The problem with religion is it only preaches an active God and leaves no room for a passive, or sometimes active, one. I can't claim that I am right on this, but I cannot follow blindly just because a book says so, especially one that leaves a lot of things to interpretation.
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Bassam Abdul-Baki wrote:
If God truly created religion, then God, who obviosly has the foresight, would have seen what a mockery religion will be if He were to try to spread His word and make everyone believe in Him without altering their minds and forcing them to believe in Him.
Exactly what I've always thought. Right now, the idea of god that most religions talk about paint him as an egoistic nasty entity who wants everyone to bow to his every whim. If an all powerful god did exist, I don't think he/she would give a damn whether people believe in god or if they pray to god etc. Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
Currently working on C++/CLI in Action for Manning Publications. Also visit the Ultimate Toolbox blog (New) -
One thing I still don't understand - if Jesus was a prophet, but Christians tampered with what He said, how do you know what Jesus said ? Do you have access to an alternative set of writings that you regard as Jesus' message untampered with ? Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ Metal Musings - Rex and my new metal blog
The Gospel of Judas!
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Why is so much of the soapbox conversation so centered around Adnan? Stand rigid for the next battle Peace means reloading your guns The love for life is all hatred in disguise - Dimmu Borgir
Are you jealous ? Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ Metal Musings - Rex and my new metal blog