Adnan's emotions... A white paper [modified]
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I think you don't understand. If you belive something, then that means that contrary beliefs, are to you, wrong. That is what belief means. But, that does not mean we cannot respect each other and allow each other to live our lives as we please.
Nishant Sivakumar wrote:
Why cannot there be multiple paths to a god (or gods)? Why go by the "my belief is the only true belief" theory?
That is just another beief! And you are welcome to it. There are many beliefs, you have to pick one. And your belief, that everyone is right, is just another belief. In other words, you can belive the world is flat or round. You have to pick one. But this does not give the 2 groups the right to kill each other. My mom told me once that "while we all don't speak the same language, everyone in the world undestands an asskicking"
kgaddy wrote:
But this does not give the 2 groups the right to kill each other.
agreed but is it followed by your own people before you raise finger on others?
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Please occasionally use the following: Shift Space Enter
Sorry I didnt notice that.Did it terrorize you?
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Judah Himango wrote:
I reject the notion that people should be punished for something in their "past life" which they've no knowledge of; I am not a Hindu.
I don't think modern Hinduism promoted reincarnation and karma, all that much :-) My mom is a Hindu - she doesn't believe in that stuff at all.
Judah Himango wrote:
You can't have real belief in God and believe that all ways lead to God; it doesn't work if God is real.
Yep - I understand that this is so. When Christians say god, and when Hindus say god - they are talking about two different things.
Judah Himango wrote:
If I have this knowledge, and I am honest in believing that this Jesus is the person he claimed to be, how could I ever say "all paths lead to God", when they clearly don't?
The same theory can be used with equal effect by a Muslim or a Hindu - they could also say "only my path leads to god". But then, that's what's happening today in the world. If a god did exist, I'd be tremendously surprised if he or she or it treated people based on whether they believed in him or not. That'd make it an egoistic god - which kinda goes against the "nice guy god" people think about.
Judah Himango wrote:
No, some people are wrong and some people are on a downward spiral. That's why I'm saying these things; to give a hand to those on the downward spirals.
But to the god-believing billions who don't believe in Jesus, your way is the downward spiral, just as theirs is to you. Also, while you are not intentionally attempting to sound insulting, saying that non-Jesus-followers are on a downward spiral can be pretty rude :-) Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
Currently working on C++/CLI in Action for Manning Publications. Also visit the Ultimate Toolbox blog (New)Nishant Sivakumar wrote:
I don't think modern Hinduism promoted reincarnation and karma,
I dont understand this Modern/ancient shit in religion stuff.I agree decisions are taken according to condition but such decisions shouldnt change the base of a religion.
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Christian Graus wrote:
Yes, that's obviously true. The point is that those different ways are mutually exclusive. You can argue that all those ways are wrong, or that one way is right. You can't argue that they are all right, as they cancel each other out.
This was what I was trying to say in half my posts in this thread :-)
Christian Graus wrote:
Rex and my new metal blog
Somehow that doesn't sound correct - is that proper grammar? I wouldn't know of course. But Rex's and my new metal blog would be closer to it I think. Again, not sure. Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
Currently working on C++/CLI in Action for Manning Publications. Also visit the Ultimate Toolbox blog (New)Nishant Sivakumar wrote:
Somehow that doesn't sound correct - is that proper grammar? I wouldn't know of course. But Rex's and my new metal blog would be closer to it I think. Again, not sure.
I think he meant to say (Rex && metalBlog)
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Nishant Sivakumar wrote:
If a god did exist, I'd be tremendously surprised if he or she or it treated people based on whether they believed in him or not. That'd make it an egoistic god - which kinda goes against the "nice guy god" people think about.
I don't think of God as a nice God or a mean God. That's childish. I respectuflly disagree God is egoistic if he enjoys people that do good and believe in Him. If God exists and he didn't care how you lived your life, where's the fabric of good and evil? In reality, then, there would be no real good and no real evil, just human speculation.
Nishant Sivakumar wrote:
Also, while you are not intentionally attempting to sound insulting, saying that non-Jesus-followers are on a downward spiral can be pretty rude
I'm not here to please everybody; I'll leave that to the PC folks. The downward spiral I'm talking about isn't necessarily non-Jesus believers. I have other thoughts about those people. The people I was referring to are those that live like I had for awhile: do whatever you feel like doing, whatever's right in your own eyes. You know, if it feels good, it's ok to do. That kind of living can ruin a life. What it comes down to, Nish, is someone is right in all this. Maybe there's some truth spread around, sure, but in the end, not everyone is right. That's a utopian, unrealistic view of the world. That's why I can't seriously say, "all paths lead to God", because we know certainly not all paths lead to God. On the contrary, most paths naturally lead to things humans enjoy doing; this forum is a testament to that, with people mocking other people, bashing other religions or all religions, hateful speech, to name a few. It doesn't stop there, of course. If some of us in this forum had enough power, we'd take our hateful speeches, our religion bashing, our desires for power, or conquest, our lusts, and bring them to their physical conclusions, ruining our lives and maybe others' in the process.
Tech, life, family, faith: Give me a visit. I'm currently blogging about: Goof around music jam with my brothers (with video) The apostle Paul, modernly speaking: Epistles of Paul
Judah Himango wrote:
Nishant Sivakumar wrote: If a god did exist, I'd be tremendously surprised if he or she or it treated people based on whether they believed in him or not. That'd make it an egoistic god - which kinda goes against the "nice guy god" people think about.
What i was told by my belief that God prefers Human rights first over Godly rights;to worship God.Quran contains merely 30%(not accurate) to worship Him and rest of the portion deals with people by various means.The reason for this that Human hardly forgive his oponent where God doesnt wait a moment to forgive those who disobeyed him.
Judah Himango wrote:
I respectuflly disagree God is egoistic if he enjoys people that do good and believe in Him
Yeah in this way every employer and parents should be labelled as EGOISTIC.
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Jason Henderson wrote:
The question is not, "Why did God make this particular way to him, the only way?"
I don't really have that question. I was more interested in what the Christian understanding was on how God would see a non-beliver who was a very good person and who lived a very good kind life.
Jason Henderson wrote:
The question is, "Why was God so merciful to those that disobey him, that he gave us any means of salvation?"
What disobedience are you talking about?
Jason Henderson wrote:
AND, "With such a simple plan of salvation, why haven't I followed it?"
If I was born to Christian parents who strongly instilled Christian beliefs in me as a child, I may have taken it. But (luckily I think) I was born to moderate Hindu parents, who allowed me to have my atheist views about life, and so I actually could choose what I wanted to believe. I understand what you are saying though. Know this because I have a few Christian friends, normally very good people, but at times, just a tad hyper-religious. Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
Currently working on C++/CLI in Action for Manning Publications. Also visit the Ultimate Toolbox blog (New)Nishant Sivakumar wrote:
I don't really have that question. I was more interested in what the Christian understanding was on how God would see a non-beliver who was a very good person and who lived a very good kind life.
I am irrelevent since you are seeking a christian point of view but Islam says that those disbelivers who do good deeds and help humanity are rewared fully in this world but no after death(which athiest dont believe at all).They get rewards like good family,wealth,peace and serenity etc etc.
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Daniel if you re old CPian then you must have idea of purpose of existance of stan and his little kids(pumpkin,espeir etc).Do you think he was not answered before or similar question was not as wered before.? If you visit 1 or 2 pages below then you would find a thread by Jorgen as well as if you search posts by my profile you will find a direct answer to espeir and kgaddy.Its other thing that my answer pissed them off as they were expecting that i would say "yeah i do accept as its part of my religioin" but i didnt come up with such answer hence they are more frustrated and they are suffering more from mouth diaherria and making this place stinky.
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Ah, I must have missed the post where you answered the question. There are a few long threads that I didn't feel like digging through.
I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours. ~Stephen Roberts
« eikonoklastes »
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Adnan Siddiqi wrote:
if some muslim doesnt follow this verse which talks about tolerence with non quran followers then its not religion's fault.Jesus(AS) said something similar which mentioned by Judah.If chritians dont follow it then its not problem with belief itself.
So what happens if a Muslim decides to convert to Christianity? According to Muslims in Afghanistan, he should be killed. What do you think about that?
there are apostates in Islam as well and there are clear guidelines about them which is absolutely not killing.If something happened in afghanistan or some X islamic country doesnt mean that its according to Islam. its like some one justifies hitler's massacre according to bible which is untrue.
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One thing I still don't understand - if Jesus was a prophet, but Christians tampered with what He said, how do you know what Jesus said ? Do you have access to an alternative set of writings that you regard as Jesus' message untampered with ? Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ Metal Musings - Rex and my new metal blog
Good question CG.But doesnt same question would be arisen at the time of Jesus when there was no Moses(AS)?
Christian Graus wrote:
He said, how do you know what Jesus said ? Do you have access to an alternative set of writings that you regard as Jesus' message untampered with ?
Gabriel!Same Celebrity which came to Mary as well to give happy tidings about Jesus(AS)
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Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote:
They're only incompatible if you make them to be.
Nope - that's what I thought too. Read CG's posts on the matter. None of the religions are compatible with each other - a partial exception being Moderate Hinduism (though Hindus may disagree with me). Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
Currently working on C++/CLI in Action for Manning Publications. Also visit the Ultimate Toolbox blog (New)no i believe abrahamic faith are compatible or as i replied to CG that there is a common intersection b/w these these religions,even hinduism is also based on one God which they call Eshwar/autar if i am not wrong.
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Are you jealous ? Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ Metal Musings - Rex and my new metal blog
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also in my wildest dreams I dont think hindus can be so lethal , violent like our islamist people. There may be occasions but its not spread that much, They are very mild, welcoming. dont want to be religious here.. but if one wants.. Just come to our real nice temples, you will have that peace, freshness. what does one want more.. somethign spiritual. churches and mosques dont offer that. This is common feeling I heard from so many people of other religions. pathak
pathakr wrote:
dont think hindus can be so lethal , violent like our islamist people
Hinduism is not like a universal religion.Majority of hindus live in India or maybe in WestIndies.Blacksheeps are in every religion even in Hinduism for instance gujrat riot,bombay riots and orgs like RSS etc.I dnt deny that there would not be good temple in India or anywhere where hindu lives and i also dont say that churches,masjids,temples,Gurdwaras and i am forgettig jews praying place are source of evils.You cant blame a university or school if it has produced bunch of bad students.It was not teacher's fault nor the teaching itself.It was all that those kids didnt read the lesson properly.
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Tim Craig wrote:
there are quite a few people who get along just fine without it.
If God-law boils down to loving other people, I'm not so sure we'd get along just fine without it.
Tech, life, family, faith: Give me a visit. I'm currently blogging about: Goof around music jam with my brothers (with video) The apostle Paul, modernly speaking: Epistles of Paul Judah Himango
Judah Himango wrote:
If God-law boils down to loving other people, I'm not so sure we'd get along just fine without it.
I don't need to love other people to get along with them. All it takes is some mutual respect. I don't even have to like them to get along with them. The evolution of the human genome is too important to be left to chance.
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Good question CG.But doesnt same question would be arisen at the time of Jesus when there was no Moses(AS)?
Christian Graus wrote:
He said, how do you know what Jesus said ? Do you have access to an alternative set of writings that you regard as Jesus' message untampered with ?
Gabriel!Same Celebrity which came to Mary as well to give happy tidings about Jesus(AS)
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No, because Jesus respected the Law, He accepted that what was written as coming from Moses, was true and accurate. As far as I can see, you claim to believe Jesus, but you reject the New Testament ( or at a minimum, parts of it, I'm not trying to pick a fight OK ? ), and so I wonder if you have any alternative from which you claim to have Jesus' words, untampered with.
Adnan Siddiqi wrote:
Gabriel!Same Celebrity which came to Mary as well to give happy tidings about Jesus(AS)
Gabriel comes to you and tells you what Jesus really said ? If not, what did you mean by this ? Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ Metal Musings - Rex and my new metal blog
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pathakr wrote:
dont think hindus can be so lethal , violent like our islamist people
Hinduism is not like a universal religion.Majority of hindus live in India or maybe in WestIndies.Blacksheeps are in every religion even in Hinduism for instance gujrat riot,bombay riots and orgs like RSS etc.I dnt deny that there would not be good temple in India or anywhere where hindu lives and i also dont say that churches,masjids,temples,Gurdwaras and i am forgettig jews praying place are source of evils.You cant blame a university or school if it has produced bunch of bad students.It was not teacher's fault nor the teaching itself.It was all that those kids didnt read the lesson properly.
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Adnan Siddiqi wrote:
that those kids didnt read the lesson properly
SUITS YOU BEST. pathak
Truth is bitter!you couldnt digest it so you start offending me like other residents troll of this forum :) Thankyou
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My Adnan is a representative of Muslim.Dont confuse him with Adnan Siddiqui Even If you beat your mother there would be two opinitons.Can we formulate certain rules and ask others to follow this.Definitely there would be protests. Eventhough I am not one of them ,I should say muslims are the most stressed community nowadays.Their rituals,customs,way of life and everything has been a source for criticism by others.Mainly because most of their practices might appear too much conservative to others. But the discipline of the Muslim lifestyle is unimaginable (I often wondered when my Muslim friends offer their unchallengeable daily prayers and fast without even having drop of water during Ramsan period). The silent agitation against Muslims got strong after 9/11. And we can see many instances after that the whole community being crucified on daily basis .We could have definitely seen that the campaigning against Islam terrorism has been converted against the whole Islam.Whether it is the murder of an innocent brazilian by London police or the mass visa denial to U.S for those who have muslim naims. It’s understandable how much this would have hurt the majority of Muslims. We can imagine the mental stress of a normal muslim who is being viewed strange creature by the so called do gooders.Even sikhs have been harrassed simply because they keeps beard and turbon. We can not see the Mohammed cartoons as a separate issue, rather it could be seen as the continuation of that campaigning against Islam. This and only this provoked Islamists all over the world. And as like supplying petrol to fire many newspapers republished the cartoons aggressively saying the issue of freedom of speech. But the community would have been respected if the protests were peaceful Some people would quote the comparatively mild protests towards Davinci code by Christians. But we should not forget that there is no coordinated campigining towards Christianity and this was an odd one. But be it Pardha, liberation of women, shariah ..Everything in Islam has become a subject to crticism. And when they criticize they are forgetting that all religions in the world have black histories and all of them had built up on mere faith rather than concrete proofs. I have seen no Indian newspaper supporting the war in Iraq. And the recent voting of India against Iran has been criticized highly in India. So what we need is a mind to accept others, even if they are opposing our attitudes. And we shou
When I decide to replay to this thread, I saw that it is so long that, almost everithing I'll say is already said... so, this is my opinion! :laugh:
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Ryan Roberts wrote:
religious law is man made law
That's where we start to differ. There is law which we say to be God's Law; something Messiah boiled all down into 2 laws: love God, and love others. Those are not man-made. Of course, you might believe them to be man made; it's all differences stemming from belief versus disbelief. What you point out as inconsistencies is right on: religious people don't always act Godly. I made this clear to Nish below; religious people can behave worse than non-religious people. The reason is because religion cannot be the focus. Instead, a personal relationship with God must be the focus, ritualism aside. I don't need threats of divine vengence to behave. Instead of vengence, we have a sheer gift: forgiveness! Even if we don't deserve it. That's what we like to call grace. :cool: Doing good, then, isn't some chore or tedious job to attend to, but a way of living free in God. Free from addictions and ungodly living that God-less ways tend to degenerate into.
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Judah Himango wrote:
Instead, a personal relationship with God must be the focus, ritualism aside.
Which is a relitavely modern interpretation of Christianity too. Though you may argue its closer to the original form.
Judah Himango wrote:
love God, and love others.
I can deal with the second. Those two were the package that Tom Paine and other deists distilled out of the bible, they are ceratinly axiomatic but I am unable to consider them divine. Ryan
"Michael Moore and Mel Gibson are the same person, except for a few sit-ups. Moore thought his cheesy political blooper reel was going to tell people how to vote. Mel thought that his little gay SM movie about his imaginary friend was going to help him get to heaven." - Penn Jillette
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Truth is bitter!you couldnt digest it so you start offending me like other residents troll of this forum :) Thankyou
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I am new , but after reading all posts, truth seems to be bitter to you Mr. Adnan marcoslav
my friend the truth you see thru the eyes of western media is very different than the orignal truth.
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