drugs
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Totally agreed. The amount of wasted tax money chasing, arresting and locking up people who are committing victimless crimes (an adult who purchases a product without duress is in no way a victim) is pretty damn terrifying. The black market created through the narcotics trade also helps to fund an underclass - whole areas of large cities are dependent on the black market, often brutalising and alienating those who grow up in them. The argument that keeping them illegal sends out the correct message - that society disapproves of it is pretty poor, given the sheer numbers involved in the casual use of narcotics. I no longer use illicit drugs (except for Salvia Divinorum, very occasionally), I simply don't enjoy the lifestyle any more. Good scotch, decent beer and cigarettes(unfortunately) are another matter :) Ryan
"Michael Moore and Mel Gibson are the same person, except for a few sit-ups. Moore thought his cheesy political blooper reel was going to tell people how to vote. Mel thought that his little gay SM movie about his imaginary friend was going to help him get to heaven." - Penn Jillette
Well, I'm still pretty mixed up on the matter myself. I'm just want to know why the govt. is saying X is so bad for you and digusting, but Y is ok and legal when they pretty much do the same thing. Jeremy Falcon
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So its OK for a drug user to do what they want in private but not OK for homosexuals? Anyway, sure, society is two-faced and a hypocrite. It tolerates alcohol, a very toxic drug, that causes a lot of problems, but bans dope. Speed was legal in the 50s, it was given to people to help them loose weight, and to soldiers to help stay awake. Cocaine was legal in the 19th century in the UK. In the 18th century, the UK went to war with China to protect its opium market. The UK was selling opium to the Chinesse! We were pushers! Just 150 years ago! Nunc est bibendum
fat_boy wrote:
So its OK for a drug user to do what they want in private but not OK for homosexuals?
I never said drugs were ok. Read my reply to Wjousts for more.
fat_boy wrote:
Anyway, sure, society is two-faced and a hypocrite. It tolerates alcohol, a very toxic drug, that causes a lot of problems, but bans dope.
That's the problem. Society is a reflection of people. People by and large are stupid.
fat_boy wrote:
Speed was legal in the 50s, it was given to people to help them loose weight, and to soldiers to help stay awake.
Go figure. Jeremy Falcon
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fat_boy wrote:
So its OK for a drug user to do what they want in private but not OK for homosexuals?
I never said drugs were ok. Read my reply to Wjousts for more.
fat_boy wrote:
Anyway, sure, society is two-faced and a hypocrite. It tolerates alcohol, a very toxic drug, that causes a lot of problems, but bans dope.
That's the problem. Society is a reflection of people. People by and large are stupid.
fat_boy wrote:
Speed was legal in the 50s, it was given to people to help them loose weight, and to soldiers to help stay awake.
Go figure. Jeremy Falcon
Jeremy Falcon wrote:
That's the problem. Society is a reflection of people. People by and large are stupid.
Then shouldn't we live in a stupid society?
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In my life I've seen a 100% correlation between drug use and a significant decline in one's ability to cope with various aspects of life. That includes numerous people I've know who have done everything from pot to ecstasy, etc... Even though alcoholism can supposedly be pretty bad, I have never myself witnessed any ill effects (except for the temporary ones) that precipitated from its over-use. I'm not saying that it doesn't happen because it does, but there is just not the correlation to people who drink. Of course there's no correlation with smoking either. I don't know if people gravitate towards drugs because of a basic weakness in their life or if that weakness comes from drugs (i.e. I can't determine causality). But I can say with 100% certainty that in my personal experience there is a 100% correlation. I therefore support its restriction.
espeir wrote:
In my life I've seen a 100% correlation between drug use and a significant decline in one's ability to cope with various aspects of life. That includes numerous people I've know who have done everything from pot to ecstasy, etc...
Me too, and I'm inline with 100%. That wasn't the point I was trying to make though. Why is A bad and B ok, according to uncle sam?
espeir wrote:
Even though alcoholism can supposedly be pretty bad, I have never myself witnessed any ill effects (except for the temporary ones) that precipitated from its over-use.
Booze kills brain cells and the liver, and smoking kills brain cells and the lungs. I don't think the effects are as profound as your stronger drugs, but they are right on par with the weaker ones. And yet they are perfectly legal, if you're of age.
espeir wrote:
I'm not saying that it doesn't happen because it does, but there is just not the correlation to people who drink. Of course there's no correlation with smoking either.
Yes there is, do the research. Now, I will say being fat and unhealthy can also slow you're thinking down as well.
espeir wrote:
But I can say with 100% certainty that in my personal experience there is a 100% correlation. I therefore support its restriction.
I've used LSD several times before as a teenager and my life isn't in shambles. And I didn't notice a decrease in mental performance due to it. I noticed more bad effects due to smoking for 5 years actually. Jeremy Falcon
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Interesting side fact here: Did you know that some medicines--pain meds--now cost so much that seniors are turning to illegal drugs such as meth to supplement their pain meds? It's a growing trend.
“Profanity is the attempt of a lazy and feeble mind to express itself forcefully”
That's a shame too. Jeremy Falcon
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Jeremy Falcon wrote:
That's the problem. Society is a reflection of people. People by and large are stupid.
Then shouldn't we live in a stupid society?
espeir wrote:
Then shouldn't we live in a stupid society?
We do. Jeremy Falcon
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espeir wrote:
Then shouldn't we live in a stupid society?
We do. Jeremy Falcon
I meant that isn't it what we deserve if we're all stupid?
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espeir wrote:
In my life I've seen a 100% correlation between drug use and a significant decline in one's ability to cope with various aspects of life. That includes numerous people I've know who have done everything from pot to ecstasy, etc...
Me too, and I'm inline with 100%. That wasn't the point I was trying to make though. Why is A bad and B ok, according to uncle sam?
espeir wrote:
Even though alcoholism can supposedly be pretty bad, I have never myself witnessed any ill effects (except for the temporary ones) that precipitated from its over-use.
Booze kills brain cells and the liver, and smoking kills brain cells and the lungs. I don't think the effects are as profound as your stronger drugs, but they are right on par with the weaker ones. And yet they are perfectly legal, if you're of age.
espeir wrote:
I'm not saying that it doesn't happen because it does, but there is just not the correlation to people who drink. Of course there's no correlation with smoking either.
Yes there is, do the research. Now, I will say being fat and unhealthy can also slow you're thinking down as well.
espeir wrote:
But I can say with 100% certainty that in my personal experience there is a 100% correlation. I therefore support its restriction.
I've used LSD several times before as a teenager and my life isn't in shambles. And I didn't notice a decrease in mental performance due to it. I noticed more bad effects due to smoking for 5 years actually. Jeremy Falcon
Jeremy Falcon wrote:
Me too, and I'm inline with 100%. That wasn't the point I was trying to make though. Why is A bad and B ok, according to uncle sam?
I think for two reasons: 1) In my observations, drugs are far worse than alcohol, regardless of what the druggies say. 2) Alcohol precedes our nation by thousands of years. It's basically part of our culture.
Jeremy Falcon wrote:
Booze kills brain cells and the liver, and smoking kills brain cells and the lungs. I don't think the effects are as profound as your stronger drugs, but they are right on par with the weaker ones. And yet they are perfectly legal, if you're of age.
Perhaps, but drugs are also mind-altering and as a result have a vastly more negative effect than dancing on top of a bar.
Jeremy Falcon wrote:
Yes there is, do the research. Now, I will say being fat and unhealthy can also slow you're thinking down as well.
I wasn't talking about being lazy. I'm talking about a complete disregard for one's personal situation. Basically dropping out of life. I think the effects are similar to depression.
Jeremy Falcon wrote:
I've used LSD several times before as a teenager and my life isn't in shambles. And I didn't notice a decrease in mental performance due to it. I noticed more bad effects due to smoking for 5 years actually.
You don't currently use it, though.
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Interesting side fact here: Did you know that some medicines--pain meds--now cost so much that seniors are turning to illegal drugs such as meth to supplement their pain meds? It's a growing trend.
“Profanity is the attempt of a lazy and feeble mind to express itself forcefully”
I thought they were turning to the federal government to supplement their pain meds.
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But you know what else causes Cirrhosis? Hepatitis C...Google tells me that half of all Cirrhosis is the result of Heptitis C, and intraveinous drug users are actually at the highest risk of contracting it (yes, I actually did know an older drug user who actually had liver cancer because of the Hepatitis C he contracted). Let's also not forget AIDS...And the thousands of drug overdoses per year. Besides, I didn't condone a lifetime of heavy drinking. I said that my personal experience leads me to believe that drugs are much more damaging than alcohol. Pretty much everyone I know and have known drinks to some capacity and none of them have had their lives altered by it...Maybe some of their evenings.
espeir wrote:
Pretty much everyone I know and have known drinks to some capacity and none of them have had their lives altered by it...Maybe some of their evenings.
That would be the exact argument you would get from people that consider themselves "recreational smot pokers".
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Jeremy Falcon wrote:
Me too, and I'm inline with 100%. That wasn't the point I was trying to make though. Why is A bad and B ok, according to uncle sam?
I think for two reasons: 1) In my observations, drugs are far worse than alcohol, regardless of what the druggies say. 2) Alcohol precedes our nation by thousands of years. It's basically part of our culture.
Jeremy Falcon wrote:
Booze kills brain cells and the liver, and smoking kills brain cells and the lungs. I don't think the effects are as profound as your stronger drugs, but they are right on par with the weaker ones. And yet they are perfectly legal, if you're of age.
Perhaps, but drugs are also mind-altering and as a result have a vastly more negative effect than dancing on top of a bar.
Jeremy Falcon wrote:
Yes there is, do the research. Now, I will say being fat and unhealthy can also slow you're thinking down as well.
I wasn't talking about being lazy. I'm talking about a complete disregard for one's personal situation. Basically dropping out of life. I think the effects are similar to depression.
Jeremy Falcon wrote:
I've used LSD several times before as a teenager and my life isn't in shambles. And I didn't notice a decrease in mental performance due to it. I noticed more bad effects due to smoking for 5 years actually.
You don't currently use it, though.
espeir wrote:
- In my observations, drugs are far worse than alcohol, regardless of what the druggies say.
I think you might be mistaking correlation for causation. In my experience, drugs provide a way for some people to ignore the fact that their lives are on a downward spiral. BTW, I am not, and never have been, a user of any drug other than aspirin and caffiene (so my spiral must be very shallo
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Jeremy Falcon wrote:
Me too, and I'm inline with 100%. That wasn't the point I was trying to make though. Why is A bad and B ok, according to uncle sam?
I think for two reasons: 1) In my observations, drugs are far worse than alcohol, regardless of what the druggies say. 2) Alcohol precedes our nation by thousands of years. It's basically part of our culture.
Jeremy Falcon wrote:
Booze kills brain cells and the liver, and smoking kills brain cells and the lungs. I don't think the effects are as profound as your stronger drugs, but they are right on par with the weaker ones. And yet they are perfectly legal, if you're of age.
Perhaps, but drugs are also mind-altering and as a result have a vastly more negative effect than dancing on top of a bar.
Jeremy Falcon wrote:
Yes there is, do the research. Now, I will say being fat and unhealthy can also slow you're thinking down as well.
I wasn't talking about being lazy. I'm talking about a complete disregard for one's personal situation. Basically dropping out of life. I think the effects are similar to depression.
Jeremy Falcon wrote:
I've used LSD several times before as a teenager and my life isn't in shambles. And I didn't notice a decrease in mental performance due to it. I noticed more bad effects due to smoking for 5 years actually.
You don't currently use it, though.
espeir wrote:
- In my observations, drugs are far worse than alcohol, regardless of what the druggies say.
I think you might be mistaking correlation for causation. In my experience, drugs provide a way for some people to ignore the fact that their lives are on a downward spiral. BTW, I am not, and never have been, a user of any drug other than aspirin and caffiene (so my spiral must be very shallow :)).
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espeir wrote:
- In my observations, drugs are far worse than alcohol, regardless of what the druggies say.
I think you might be mistaking correlation for causation. In my experience, drugs provide a way for some people to ignore the fact that their lives are on a downward spiral. BTW, I am not, and never have been, a user of any drug other than aspirin and caffiene (so my spiral must be very shallo
Did you miss the part where I stated I didn't know whether drug use causes a downward spiral or if the downward spiral leads to drug use? I recognize that fact, but I also recognize that in either case drugs are very damaging.
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espeir wrote:
Pretty much everyone I know and have known drinks to some capacity and none of them have had their lives altered by it...Maybe some of their evenings.
That would be the exact argument you would get from people that consider themselves "recreational smot pokers".
Yes, but you can't trust recreational smot poker's opinion. I base my opinion on personal observation. Almost everyone I know has smoked pot, but everyone I know who has smoked it continuously has suffered as a result. -- modified at 14:04 Friday 16th June, 2006 :laugh: For expediency, I copied and pasted your "recreational smot pokers" and didn't notice what it said until afterwards.
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I know plenty of people, including myself who have perfectly normal lives and often highly payed and skilled careers who have taken and continue to take all those and more. I took LSD and mushrooms pretty regularly for a few years (and do did Steve Wozniak, the damn hippie). Coke is a pain in the ass to be around though, never work for anyone with a Coke habit. Ryan
"Michael Moore and Mel Gibson are the same person, except for a few sit-ups. Moore thought his cheesy political blooper reel was going to tell people how to vote. Mel thought that his little gay SM movie about his imaginary friend was going to help him get to heaven." - Penn Jillette
You were voted down for posting about drugs. I wonder if it was for promoting a pro-drug lifestyle or for your cricitism of employers with Coke habits?
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Christian Graus wrote:
1 - in theory, making something legal means that society approves of people taking it
I see with your point, and I agree.
Christian Graus wrote:
the reason tobacco and alcohol are legal is simply that they are too entrenched and make the govt too much money for them to be done away with.
I have a feeling that the money is the main reason. But, people are always acting like drugs are bad, drugs are bad. And yet, they drink and smoke a shitload. Well... hello!
Christian Graus wrote:
LSD was legal for a while, for example.
:wtf: That's news to me.
Christian Graus wrote:
The side effect is that drugs cost so much that addicts can't NOT hurt anyone else. Because there are limited legal means of making the money you need to support a habit.
I agree, but like with cigarettes and booze, I think the reason they do cost so much is because they are illegal. A catch 22 ya know. Jeremy Falcon
Jeremy Falcon wrote:
Christian Graus wrote: LSD was legal for a while, for example. That's news to me.
Sandoz Laboratories, the drug’s sole producer, began marketing LSD in 1947 under the trade name “Delysid” and it was introduced into the United States a year later. Sandoz marketed LSD as a psychiatric cure-all and hailed it as a cure for everything from schizophrenia to criminal behavior, sexual perversions and alcoholism.[^]
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Which I have never witnessed. And Cirrhosis occurs after a lifetime of heavy drinking. It's like the lung cancer of alcoholics.
espeir wrote:
Which I have never witnessed
So that's why you're an atheist. You never witnessed Christ's resurrection.
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espeir wrote:
Which I have never witnessed
So that's why you're an atheist. You never witnessed Christ's resurrection.
I didn't say that I deny that alcohol adversly effects many peoples' lives merely because I haven't witnessed it, as your statement implies. I stated that while alcohol effects some people, it certainly does not effect people to the extreme degrees that drug use does, per my personal observation.
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You missed one. ;P I don't smoke, don't do drugs (aside from morphine while I was in hospital in '03, and boy was that wierd. I can see where heroin addicts come from now), drink caffeine and alcohol in great moderation and have a largely vegetarian diet. Mind you I'm a transsexual lesbian, so what would I know? ;P Anna :rose: Currently working mostly on: Visual Lint :cool: Anna's Place | Tears and Laughter "Be yourself - not what others think you should be" - Marcia Graesch "Anna's just a sexy-looking lesbian tart" - A friend, trying to wind me up. It didn't work.
Anna-Jayne Metcalfe wrote:
aside from morphine while I was in hospital in '03, and boy was that wierd. I can see where heroin addicts come from now)
Interesting how it affects different people. I was in the hospital last year with pneumonia and had morphine on demand. Aside from managing the pain, I got nothing out of it. A little weird would have helped pass the time. Being in the hospital sucks and not in a good way. ;P The evolution of the human genome is too important to be left to chance.