Why are there so few girls in programming?
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I was in class with 1 girl that I remember. To me it just doesn't seem like most of the girls I know have a natural bent towards science or engineering those who do seem quite good at it though.
"You have an arrow in your butt!" - Fiona:cool:
Welcome to CP in your language. Post the unicode version in My CP Blog [ ^ ] now.People who don't understand how awesome Firefox is have never used CPhog[^]CPhog. The act of using CPhog (Firefox)[^] alone doesn't make Firefox cool. It opens your eyes to the possibilities and then you start looking for other things like CPhog (Firefox)[^] and your eyes are suddenly open to all sorts of useful things all through Firefox. - (Self Quote)
code-frog wrote:
To me it just doesn't seem like most of the girls I know have a natural bent towards science or engineering those who do seem quite good at it though.
All other factors aside (like someone doesn't want an education), I'd wager most women tend to prefer an emotionally fulfilling job over a logically fulfilling one. Granted there are exceptions, but I don't think the reason it's mainly guys is some big accident. Jeremy Falcon
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I did my undergrad in computer engineering from India and had very few girls compared to guys in my class. I guess there were around 14-15 in the class of 50-54. Then I came to USA for my MS in computer science. And guess what, probably less percent of girls then undergrad and almost all of them were foreign students. I rarely saw an american girl in computer science or electrical eng. classes. Ankita
The numbers are even worse in electrical engineering I remember when I was in school there were 65 guys an 2 to 4 girls in most of my core EE classes. John
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code-frog wrote:
To me it just doesn't seem like most of the girls I know have a natural bent towards science or engineering those who do seem quite good at it though.
All other factors aside (like someone doesn't want an education), I'd wager most women tend to prefer an emotionally fulfilling job over a logically fulfilling one. Granted there are exceptions, but I don't think the reason it's mainly guys is some big accident. Jeremy Falcon
Yeah and I don't mean this off-color at all but this question to me seems just like asking "Why don't women want to be topless dancers?" Some do and many don't. "Why don't women want to fly F-16's?" Some do many don't. I think a really good question would be how many of you got into computer programming because you played tons of video games and that was what piqued your curiousity to make an in-road? Or more generically... "What led you into programming as a field of study?" I think for most of us *something* did. For me it was a total accident. I started out as a mechanical engineer because I love to build things. But ME school bored me stiff. As I was going through it though I had to take a C programming class and the counselor told me not to do it he said do something else C programming is too hard. I looked at him and said what can be so hard about it? He said, don't do it. I said, sign me up. I got an A, changed majors and never looked back. Them were the days. I'll never forget my first program either. "Given any amount of money output how many quarters, dimes, nickels and pennies represent the amount. You have to use the maximum number of each currency before dropping into a lower currency value." I loved that class and still have the book. K & R BABY!!!
"You have an arrow in your butt!" - Fiona:cool:
Welcome to CP in your language. Post the unicode version in My CP Blog [ ^ ] now.People who don't understand how awesome Firefox is have never used CPhog[^]CPhog. The act of using CPhog (Firefox)[^] alone doesn't make Firefox cool. It opens your eyes to the possibilities and then you start looking for other things like CPhog (Firefox)[^]
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Okay, I'm a girl and I like programming. I'm not very good at it yet, but I do like it. I've done research on women in science and the number of girls going into "computer" (whether programming, IT, etc.) keeps dropping significantly every year. For those of you with a formal education I'm curious how many girls you had in classes, how they acted (shy? open for discussion?), ethnic diversity (we had a few foreign girls but i was the only "white" girl in most of my classes.) But why do you think so few girls go into programming/computers? Other girls please give your feedback!
leckey wrote:
Okay, I'm a girl and I like programming. I'm not very good at it yet, but I do like it. I've done research on women in science and the number of girls going into "computer" (whether programming, IT, etc.) keeps dropping significantly every year.
I think interest is the key more than anything. I recently did a presentation for high school students to introduce them to my work. Ironically it was the ladies in the group that were more interested in my job. Either the ladies faked it really well (possible) or were more interested in virtual terrain rendering systems. The math and physics neither intimidated nor interested them, whereas the young men were more interest in direct application of math and physics and less interested in the overall global application. But part again is encouragement. Women are discouraged from IT careers by A) overzealous male IT students B) social stereotypes of adults C)social stereotypes of peers. Either you have to be very stubborn and want to fight your way through to get the career you want (and even males don't like to do this), or are lucky not to get the stigma of IT to affect your career choice. _________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
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The numbers are even worse in electrical engineering I remember when I was in school there were 65 guys an 2 to 4 girls in most of my core EE classes. John
They could reverse that easily. If the core of the class was to build a digital thermometer controlled curling iron it would swing sharply the other direction.:laugh: I was in class with a lot of EE's and we had to design a home security system. That was fun. Some parts were tough but by and large it was fun. I was paired up with one EE that could wire just about anything up in his head before he even pulled out a bread board to design the component.
"You have an arrow in your butt!" - Fiona:cool:
Welcome to CP in your language. Post the unicode version in My CP Blog [ ^ ] now.People who don't understand how awesome Firefox is have never used CPhog[^]CPhog. The act of using CPhog (Firefox)[^] alone doesn't make Firefox cool. It opens your eyes to the possibilities and then you start looking for other things like CPhog (Firefox)[^] and your eyes are suddenly open to all sorts of useful things all through Firefox. - (Self Quote)
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The other day I had a manager tell me that they were going to hire a young woman that had previously worked at the company. She finished her masters and was lured away to become a consultant but can't live with the travel. The reason they want to hire her back is that they can offer her a lower rate because they believe she is less qualified. From her work that I reviewed I can say she is as qualified as any other programmer working on the projects. I am not saying this is common but if young women believe that they are going to paid less and not respected it could scare them away from the occupation.
sexualy discrimination tends to happen. though School wise and knowledge wise there is no reason a woman can't be a good programmer. I don't know of any tech or programmer that would dismiss a Lady from coming into the field. If anything I thin we'd be more shocked ( considering the ungoddly high ammounts of testosterone.). To bad really. Divercity in the work place is a rather cool thing. :) Weather sexual, racial, or view point. My favourite quote is always goina be "There is more then one way to skin a cat." :) :cool::rose: ///////////////// Thus spake the master programmer: ``A well-written program is its own heaven; a poorly-written program is its own hell.''
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Yeah and I don't mean this off-color at all but this question to me seems just like asking "Why don't women want to be topless dancers?" Some do and many don't. "Why don't women want to fly F-16's?" Some do many don't. I think a really good question would be how many of you got into computer programming because you played tons of video games and that was what piqued your curiousity to make an in-road? Or more generically... "What led you into programming as a field of study?" I think for most of us *something* did. For me it was a total accident. I started out as a mechanical engineer because I love to build things. But ME school bored me stiff. As I was going through it though I had to take a C programming class and the counselor told me not to do it he said do something else C programming is too hard. I looked at him and said what can be so hard about it? He said, don't do it. I said, sign me up. I got an A, changed majors and never looked back. Them were the days. I'll never forget my first program either. "Given any amount of money output how many quarters, dimes, nickels and pennies represent the amount. You have to use the maximum number of each currency before dropping into a lower currency value." I loved that class and still have the book. K & R BABY!!!
"You have an arrow in your butt!" - Fiona:cool:
Welcome to CP in your language. Post the unicode version in My CP Blog [ ^ ] now.People who don't understand how awesome Firefox is have never used CPhog[^]CPhog. The act of using CPhog (Firefox)[^] alone doesn't make Firefox cool. It opens your eyes to the possibilities and then you start looking for other things like CPhog (Firefox)[^]
code-frog wrote:
As I was going through it though I had to take a C programming class and the counselor told me not to do it he said do something else C programming is too hard. I looked at him and said what can be so hard about it? He said, don't do it.
Geeze, what a lousy counselor; he probably flunked at it I bet. You're like me though, if someone says I can't I tell them "just watch me" - well assume I want to that is. I got a D in my CompSci class actually. I passed up the teacher within the first semester and started correcting her in class (big mistake). I got bored with the stupid assignments (if Joe bought 5 apples kinda crap) and didn't do my work. I had a F, but at the end of the year wrote her a black jack and math trivia game to her in her other class, so she had mercy on me and passed me with a D. Those were the days.
code-frog wrote:
I got an A
Good for you.
code-frog wrote:
I'll never forget my first program either.
What hooked me in was I met a friend that made a game called "Invasion of the Pac-Man planet. It was a cheesy side-scroller in DOS that had pac-man shooting the ghosts with missiles. But still, to watch this cheesy game and talk to the guy that actually made it, made that world seem so much more doable.
code-frog wrote:
I loved that class and still have the book. K & R BABY!!!
I wish K&R was my first class. I started with QBasic, but I try not to let that get out much. :laugh: Jeremy Falcon
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The other day I had a manager tell me that they were going to hire a young woman that had previously worked at the company. She finished her masters and was lured away to become a consultant but can't live with the travel. The reason they want to hire her back is that they can offer her a lower rate because they believe she is less qualified. From her work that I reviewed I can say she is as qualified as any other programmer working on the projects. I am not saying this is common but if young women believe that they are going to paid less and not respected it could scare them away from the occupation.
KevinMac wrote:
I am not saying this is common but if young women believe that they are going to paid less and not respected it could scare them away from the occupation.
That can't be the reason they choose not to become programmers. Besides, this happens in way more than one field, and there are a lot of working women out there. Maybe it could have something to do with male-dominated fields, but that isn't strictly programmer and a bit of a broader scope. I'm not certain about this though. Jeremy Falcon
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leckey wrote:
Okay, I'm a girl and I like programming. I'm not very good at it yet, but I do like it. I've done research on women in science and the number of girls going into "computer" (whether programming, IT, etc.) keeps dropping significantly every year.
I think interest is the key more than anything. I recently did a presentation for high school students to introduce them to my work. Ironically it was the ladies in the group that were more interested in my job. Either the ladies faked it really well (possible) or were more interested in virtual terrain rendering systems. The math and physics neither intimidated nor interested them, whereas the young men were more interest in direct application of math and physics and less interested in the overall global application. But part again is encouragement. Women are discouraged from IT careers by A) overzealous male IT students B) social stereotypes of adults C)social stereotypes of peers. Either you have to be very stubborn and want to fight your way through to get the career you want (and even males don't like to do this), or are lucky not to get the stigma of IT to affect your career choice. _________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
Jeffry J. Brickley wrote:
But part again is encouragement. Women are discouraged from IT careers by A) overzealous male IT students B) social stereotypes of adults C)social stereotypes of peers.
I doubt that any teen fully realizes the impact of all these things in a high school level. I'd wager it would be more to do with other factors in regards to individuality of each gender. Jeremy Falcon
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Jeffry J. Brickley wrote:
But part again is encouragement. Women are discouraged from IT careers by A) overzealous male IT students B) social stereotypes of adults C)social stereotypes of peers.
I doubt that any teen fully realizes the impact of all these things in a high school level. I'd wager it would be more to do with other factors in regards to individuality of each gender. Jeremy Falcon
Jeremy Falcon wrote:
I doubt that any teen doesn't fully realize the impact of all these things in a high school level. I'd wager it would be more to do with other factors in regards to individuality of each gender.
I doubt any teen consciously considers them. But high school and middle school students can be expressively cruel. No one chooses to be the school cast-outs. _________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
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code-frog wrote:
As I was going through it though I had to take a C programming class and the counselor told me not to do it he said do something else C programming is too hard. I looked at him and said what can be so hard about it? He said, don't do it.
Geeze, what a lousy counselor; he probably flunked at it I bet. You're like me though, if someone says I can't I tell them "just watch me" - well assume I want to that is. I got a D in my CompSci class actually. I passed up the teacher within the first semester and started correcting her in class (big mistake). I got bored with the stupid assignments (if Joe bought 5 apples kinda crap) and didn't do my work. I had a F, but at the end of the year wrote her a black jack and math trivia game to her in her other class, so she had mercy on me and passed me with a D. Those were the days.
code-frog wrote:
I got an A
Good for you.
code-frog wrote:
I'll never forget my first program either.
What hooked me in was I met a friend that made a game called "Invasion of the Pac-Man planet. It was a cheesy side-scroller in DOS that had pac-man shooting the ghosts with missiles. But still, to watch this cheesy game and talk to the guy that actually made it, made that world seem so much more doable.
code-frog wrote:
I loved that class and still have the book. K & R BABY!!!
I wish K&R was my first class. I started with QBasic, but I try not to let that get out much. :laugh: Jeremy Falcon
My counselor was a Mechanical Engineer. If programming was his thing he would have done it instead. No fault to him from trying to steer me from rocks that claimed the GPA of many another ME major.
"You have an arrow in your butt!" - Fiona:cool:
Welcome to CP in your language. Post the unicode version in My CP Blog [ ^ ] now.People who don't understand how awesome Firefox is have never used CPhog[^]CPhog. The act of using CPhog (Firefox)[^] alone doesn't make Firefox cool. It opens your eyes to the possibilities and then you start looking for other things like CPhog (Firefox)[^] and your eyes are suddenly open to all sorts of useful things all through Firefox. - (Self Quote)
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Jeremy Falcon wrote:
I doubt that any teen doesn't fully realize the impact of all these things in a high school level. I'd wager it would be more to do with other factors in regards to individuality of each gender.
I doubt any teen consciously considers them. But high school and middle school students can be expressively cruel. No one chooses to be the school cast-outs. _________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
Jeffry J. Brickley wrote:
I doubt any teen consciously considers them. But high school and middle school students can be expressively cruel. No one chooses to be the school cast-outs.
I doubt this. CP offers a great explanation. Just look at how they embrace a real, live girl on CP. Why should this be any different in grade school? And if they are not picked on by the other coders, one *would* think they would find solace if they are that susceptible to being teased. But, since they don't flock to the world of programming I'm still inclined to believe that the potential of being socially ostracized would wouldn't stop them. After all, a fair amount of girls do join band, the term "band nerd" does exist for a reason. You don't see them stopping band do you? [edit] One day I'll learn to type. :laugh: [/edit] Jeremy Falcon
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Okay, I'm a girl and I like programming. I'm not very good at it yet, but I do like it. I've done research on women in science and the number of girls going into "computer" (whether programming, IT, etc.) keeps dropping significantly every year. For those of you with a formal education I'm curious how many girls you had in classes, how they acted (shy? open for discussion?), ethnic diversity (we had a few foreign girls but i was the only "white" girl in most of my classes.) But why do you think so few girls go into programming/computers? Other girls please give your feedback!
I think that should be from your perspective. India, in IT at least, presents a more broader picture with more opportunities for girls in programming. There are tangible evidences for this, as you flip through the daily newspapers or weblogs too. Even the matrimonial advertisements that you can check out in regional news papers in Chennai, you can find that there are a lot of girls in top positions and looking out for on par life partners. Vasudevan Deepak Kumar Personal Homepage namespace LavanyaDeepak
Personal Weblog
The World of Deepak and Lavanya
ViewPoint 24x7 -
My counselor was a Mechanical Engineer. If programming was his thing he would have done it instead. No fault to him from trying to steer me from rocks that claimed the GPA of many another ME major.
"You have an arrow in your butt!" - Fiona:cool:
Welcome to CP in your language. Post the unicode version in My CP Blog [ ^ ] now.People who don't understand how awesome Firefox is have never used CPhog[^]CPhog. The act of using CPhog (Firefox)[^] alone doesn't make Firefox cool. It opens your eyes to the possibilities and then you start looking for other things like CPhog (Firefox)[^] and your eyes are suddenly open to all sorts of useful things all through Firefox. - (Self Quote)
Hey, that was a perfectly good rant I had brewing that you just ruined. ;P Jeremy Falcon
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Okay, I'm a girl and I like programming. I'm not very good at it yet, but I do like it. I've done research on women in science and the number of girls going into "computer" (whether programming, IT, etc.) keeps dropping significantly every year. For those of you with a formal education I'm curious how many girls you had in classes, how they acted (shy? open for discussion?), ethnic diversity (we had a few foreign girls but i was the only "white" girl in most of my classes.) But why do you think so few girls go into programming/computers? Other girls please give your feedback!
That is an interesting question. I propose that we get you, me and as many of the other female CPians that are interested in this topic to meet in person, for about 5 days to discuss the issue.
"Just about every question you've asked over the last 3-4 days has been "urgent". Perhaps a little planning would be helpful?"
Colin Angus Mackay in the C# forumled mike
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I think that should be from your perspective. India, in IT at least, presents a more broader picture with more opportunities for girls in programming. There are tangible evidences for this, as you flip through the daily newspapers or weblogs too. Even the matrimonial advertisements that you can check out in regional news papers in Chennai, you can find that there are a lot of girls in top positions and looking out for on par life partners. Vasudevan Deepak Kumar Personal Homepage namespace LavanyaDeepak
Personal Weblog
The World of Deepak and Lavanya
ViewPoint 24x7 -
leckey wrote:
Okay, I'm a girl and I like programming.
Sorry, i don't buy it. Hardly any girls like programming, everyone knows that - but plenty of programmers like to play fast and lose with the sex of their online personas. I suspect you are merely one of the latter... :suss:
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Shog9 wrote:
plenty of programmers like to play fast and lose with the sex of their online personas
Please don't tell me you are really a girl! :~ :laugh::laugh::laugh:
"Just about every question you've asked over the last 3-4 days has been "urgent". Perhaps a little planning would be helpful?"
Colin Angus Mackay in the C# forumled mike
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The numbers are even worse in electrical engineering I remember when I was in school there were 65 guys an 2 to 4 girls in most of my core EE classes. John
John M. Drescher wrote:
The numbers are even worse in electrical engineering
yep, I have seen that too. One big surprise for me was the civil engineering class in undergrad. Some how we had 2 clsses for civil engineering, where as one for every other field. One of the civil eng. class had more than 80% girls and other one had 40-60 or may be 50-50 girls and guys. I can't explain that now :-D Ankita
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That is an interesting question. I propose that we get you, me and as many of the other female CPians that are interested in this topic to meet in person, for about 5 days to discuss the issue.
"Just about every question you've asked over the last 3-4 days has been "urgent". Perhaps a little planning would be helpful?"
Colin Angus Mackay in the C# forumled mike
led mike wrote:
I propose that we get you, me and as many of the other female CPians that are interested in this topic to meet in person
And yet in your profile you keep on referring to yourself as "He". Yeah, women do that all the time. :doh: Jeremy Falcon
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Okay, I'm a girl and I like programming. I'm not very good at it yet, but I do like it. I've done research on women in science and the number of girls going into "computer" (whether programming, IT, etc.) keeps dropping significantly every year. For those of you with a formal education I'm curious how many girls you had in classes, how they acted (shy? open for discussion?), ethnic diversity (we had a few foreign girls but i was the only "white" girl in most of my classes.) But why do you think so few girls go into programming/computers? Other girls please give your feedback!
Try of the places I have worked had females. The first place had a few and they seemed to well, but where not aggressive in their work, much more willing to listen and produce what they were assigned. Many of the males where more likely to enhance the designs and push more. The other place I worked that had females, had only one but that was 1/5 the developers :) She was much like the females at the other shop that had them, in that she would build to spec and not go outside that spec usually. She was a really good and fast developer, she could crank out the code and do repetitious work that most of us did not like. The only battles there on design came from the male developers :) So far, my view of female developers have been a positive one! Rocky <>< Latest Post: Visual Studio 2005 Standard, whats missing? Blog: www.RockyMoore.com/TheCoder/[^]