future of programming
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Although I am speaking from some ignorance I am becoming more familure with India. 1) I have a developer working for me who is on H1-b from India (She is very good by the way). and 2) There is a project underway which I am involved with that includes India. E=mc2 -> BOOM
Albert Einstein. wrote:
There is a project underway which I am involved with that includes India.
I wish you all the best with that. Abhishek
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The future of programming IMO is this : Languages like C# and VB make it increasingly easy for people to write something that doesn't melt their system, and increasingly makes it possible to create simple programs that do something 'run of the mill' without writing much code, if any. At the same time, the number of developers in places like India, Pakistan and Russia ( i.e. places where the cost of living is low ) is making it possible for people to get programs written at unheard of prices. The price of Indian developers will rise. The price people are willing to pay developers in the West will drop. Developing software will in some circles be regarded as no more of a technical skill than using Word ( having said that, I do not know how to use most of Word ). There will always be a place in all of this for people with genuine skills in development, design and architecture to make a good living. Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ Metal Musings - Rex and my new metal blog
I've always felt that Microsoft Windows will fall because the OS is a means to an end. When the language becomes easy enough that you can build anything, the person that will retain his or her job is the one that can come up with software ideas that the people will need. Writers don't care which editor they use as long as they can write on it. Hospitals don't care which database application they use as long as it has the functionality they need. The people that will survive in the programmer's pool will be those that can market new ideas to the companies since eventually the program will write itself. My two cents.
"Religion is assurance in numbers." - Bassam Abdul-Baki Web
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Programming is just solving a problem via computer code. Whilst it can be a creative task, it is no more art than paint by numbers is. More and more solutions will be created by tools and languages that take us further from the machine. Programming will diverge into those who write the tools and those who write the higher level solutions. Personally, I'm in it for the higher end problem solving, the coding doesn't really interest me so much. The higher the abstraction and the more the tools will do, is all better for me. Michael CP Blog [^] Development Blog [^]
Michael P Butler wrote:
Programming is just solving a problem via computer code. Whilst it can be a creative task, it is no more art than paint by numbers is.
Perfect response. Currently, I see a lot of great programmers with poor logic skills who have a hard time debugging their or other people's code. Once the language becomes easy enough that anyone can do it, I think those who can debug it and come up with new software ideas to boot (pardon the pun) will be in higher demand.
"Religion is assurance in numbers." - Bassam Abdul-Baki Web
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Will programing always be an art or, will it become an extreme science like physics, and math? Abhishek
Sorry, but physics after a certain level, like programming, is an art.
“Profanity is the attempt of a lazy and feeble mind to express itself forcefully”
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Maybe i was a bit harsh, bad mood, sorry :sigh: But good reaction on your part! :laugh:
Super Lloyd wrote:
But good reaction on your part!
Definitely. I was impressed with his reaction to a message i posted earlier. It wasn't bad, just a gentle correction to his post, but he took it extremely well. Well done Abhishek! :)
Ryan
"Punctuality is only a virtue for those who aren't smart enough to think of good excuses for being late" John Nichol "Point Of Impact"
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Gary R. Wheeler wrote:
Who peed in your breakfast cereal this morning, Marc?
haha. So, do you agree with me or not? Marc Pensieve Some people believe what the bible says. Literally. At least [with Wikipedia] you have the chance to correct the wiki -- Jörgen Sigvardsson
In those dark moments of deep despair, caught between the jaws of grim reality... In other words, most of the time :sigh:.
Software Zen:
delete this; -
Will programing always be an art or, will it become an extreme science like physics, and math? Abhishek
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Sorry, but physics after a certain level, like programming, is an art.
“Profanity is the attempt of a lazy and feeble mind to express itself forcefully”
No, its a science. ;P
"Je pense, donc je mange." - Rene Descartes 1689 - Just before his mother put his tea on the table. Shameless Plug - Distributed Database Transactions in .NET using COM+
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Generally speaking I agree with you. I have an Economics degree and it would seem that there is an equalibrum waiting to be acheived. However, you have to understand the Indian Cast system. In India it depends on your cast. Now why I don't undestand it completely I do know that if your parents are plumbers, you will most likley be a plumber (nothing against plumbers). If you are homeless, you will be homeless. You have do not have a way to make yourself better and provide a future other than your own to your children. So I think the Cast system will mess up the economics as there is a barrer to entry. Not everyone can become a developer. So while I think equalibrum is still going to be achived it's in the long term. No time soon. E=mc2 -> BOOM
Albert Einstein. wrote:
I have an Economics degree and it would seem that there is an equalibrum waiting to be acheived. However, you have to understand the Indian Cast system. In India it depends on your cast. Now why I don't undestand it completely I do know that if your parents are plumbers, you will most likley be a plumber (nothing against plumbers). If you are homeless, you will be homeless. You have do not have a way to make yourself better and provide a future other than your own to your children.
:~ Your understanding of Indian economics and social ways seem to be 70-80 years outdated! My dad has a management degree and worked as the managing director of a Govt corporation, my mom ran a beauty parlour for years, and I didn't choose either profession. My wife's dad is a doctor, her mom never worked, and she (my wife) is a software developer (turned into technical editor). Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
Currently working on C++/CLI in Action for Manning Publications. Also visit the Ultimate Toolbox blog (New) -
Albert Einstein. wrote:
You have do not have a way to make yourself better and provide a future other than your own to your children.
:confused: I dont know where you got that from...This could be true say some 100 or even 50 years ago. Not the case anymore.
retZ wrote:
...This could be true say some 100 or even 50 years ago. Not the case anymore.
RetZ If you don't mind my asking, are you of Indian origin? Or perhaps your spouse? Your reply indicates an Indian patriotic vein - which I wouldn't expect in a non-Indian :-) Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
Currently working on C++/CLI in Action for Manning Publications. Also visit the Ultimate Toolbox blog (New) -
No, its a science. ;P
"Je pense, donc je mange." - Rene Descartes 1689 - Just before his mother put his tea on the table. Shameless Plug - Distributed Database Transactions in .NET using COM+
'Tis not. It's a craft...
“Profanity is the attempt of a lazy and feeble mind to express itself forcefully”
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Albert Einstein. wrote:
Most of all art sucks. The only thing that ends up on display is the tolerable stuff. The rest is crap. Arguably the displayed stuff is too
That would be the same the artist would say when they look at our code :-D. If you like art then you would understand the beauty and meaning behind most of the art. Probably we are good in looking at {} ++ -- (which is an art to us). Being an artist(hobby) and a programmer, I would need to disagree little with you.
Tarakeshwar MCP, CCIE Q(R&S) Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes. That way, when you criticize them, you're a mile away and you have their shoes. !sgub evah t'nseod margorP sihT ?sgub naem ayaddahW
I think your assertion applys to programming as well though. What one developer thinks is great code, another my think is awful. It depends on your perspective. It's just opinion. Granted in both there are some boundries as to what is acceptable. If I were to take a peice of paper and draw a single line on it, while perhaps it is art, it's not very good art. E=mc2 -> BOOM
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Albert Einstein. wrote:
Most of all art sucks. The only thing that ends up on display is the tolerable stuff. The rest is crap. Arguably the displayed stuff is too.
And who is the leadig authority on that?;P Abhishek
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder E=mc2 -> BOOM
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Albert Einstein. wrote:
I have an Economics degree and it would seem that there is an equalibrum waiting to be acheived. However, you have to understand the Indian Cast system. In India it depends on your cast. Now why I don't undestand it completely I do know that if your parents are plumbers, you will most likley be a plumber (nothing against plumbers). If you are homeless, you will be homeless. You have do not have a way to make yourself better and provide a future other than your own to your children.
:~ Your understanding of Indian economics and social ways seem to be 70-80 years outdated! My dad has a management degree and worked as the managing director of a Govt corporation, my mom ran a beauty parlour for years, and I didn't choose either profession. My wife's dad is a doctor, her mom never worked, and she (my wife) is a software developer (turned into technical editor). Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
Currently working on C++/CLI in Action for Manning Publications. Also visit the Ultimate Toolbox blog (New)Like I said, it's a Bachelors degree. I certainly did not specialize in Indian Economics so I'm learning here. But does the caste system have a degree of "racisium", for lack of a better word, in it? As you know in US struggled with racisum in the past (some say we still do) so we are sinsitive to this. I had heard in this thread that there was a degree of quota's for the lower casts to get into university. Isn't that still racaisum though but just in reverse? E=mc2 -> BOOM
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retZ wrote:
...This could be true say some 100 or even 50 years ago. Not the case anymore.
RetZ If you don't mind my asking, are you of Indian origin? Or perhaps your spouse? Your reply indicates an Indian patriotic vein - which I wouldn't expect in a non-Indian :-) Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
Currently working on C++/CLI in Action for Manning Publications. Also visit the Ultimate Toolbox blog (New) -
In those dark moments of deep despair, caught between the jaws of grim reality... In other words, most of the time :sigh:.
Software Zen:
delete this;Gary R. Wheeler wrote:
In other words, most of the time .
:laugh: Marc Pensieve Some people believe what the bible says. Literally. At least [with Wikipedia] you have the chance to correct the wiki -- Jörgen Sigvardsson
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Will programing always be an art or, will it become an extreme science like physics, and math? Abhishek
Doing and understanding anything new is an art. Repeating what has been done already isn't. Much like engineering or VB. :-D
I can imagine the sinking feeling one would have after ordering my book, only to find a laughably ridiculous theory with demented logic once the book arrives - Mark McCutcheon
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Like I said, it's a Bachelors degree. I certainly did not specialize in Indian Economics so I'm learning here. But does the caste system have a degree of "racisium", for lack of a better word, in it? As you know in US struggled with racisum in the past (some say we still do) so we are sinsitive to this. I had heard in this thread that there was a degree of quota's for the lower casts to get into university. Isn't that still racaisum though but just in reverse? E=mc2 -> BOOM
You are absolutely right. It is racism. It is affirmative action gone out of control. There is also the dangerous trend of Indian politicians clammering for "quotas" in the private sector. Guess what? I would not want my artificial heart to be designed by a scientist/doctor who got the job just because of his caste :mad:
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Like I said, it's a Bachelors degree. I certainly did not specialize in Indian Economics so I'm learning here. But does the caste system have a degree of "racisium", for lack of a better word, in it? As you know in US struggled with racisum in the past (some say we still do) so we are sinsitive to this. I had heard in this thread that there was a degree of quota's for the lower casts to get into university. Isn't that still racaisum though but just in reverse? E=mc2 -> BOOM
Albert Einstein. wrote:
racisum
Albert Einstein. wrote:
racaisum
Albert Einstein. wrote:
racisium
I think "racism" is what you're looking for. ;) BW
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
-- Steven Wright -
Will programing always be an art or, will it become an extreme science like physics, and math? Abhishek
Since the advent of higher-level languages as COBOL and BASIC, there has existed a populace which cries Programming will be dead soon! Secretaries will simply drag and drop objects to create an application.. Almost three decades have passed and coding is now more complex than numbered lines with goto or jump - the complexities of GDI+, generics and object relations have not achieved simplicity over PIX and pointers. Wherein is the simplicity of coding ASP.Net so that (well-designed) markup renders properly in IE, Firefox, Mozilla, Safari and Opera? Coding is an art for me as I design and render my interfaces in Photoshop or Lightwave. Coding is a science for me as I write and test my own search algorithms for repeatable results; notwithstanding a plethora of pre-written algorithms might exist. My goal is to create or to improve, not to mindlessly hook together pre-written objects because the herd baaaa-baaaas that reuse is good and don't recreate the wheel - baaaaaa-baaaad!. Coding is engineering for me as I draw the blueprint and storyboards for my creation, an architecture of algorithms to which I may claim authorship, a user-interface I designed and entities I wrote. If others dislike this profession so much for its complexity and equally despise coders for their individualist, heads-down and solitary practises, please leave quickly and let that door hit you on the way out. Nicholas