Visual Studio 2005
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Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote:
Does that make you a dinosaur next year?
If, like me, you turn 30, the all I can tell you is that I FEEL like a dinosaur now - especially when some nubile young 21year old tries chatting me up :( "Now I guess I'll sit back and watch people misinterpret what I just said......" Christian Graus At The Soapbox
RichardGrimmer wrote:
I FEEL like a dinosaur now - especially when some nubile young 21year old tries chatting me up
So not very often, then...? ;P
0 bottles of beer on the wall, 0 bottles of beer, you take 1 down, pass it around, 4294967295 bottles of beer on the wall. Awasu 2.2.2 [^]: A free RSS/Atom feed reader with support for Code Project.
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Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote:
If it was such a dead language, then why are they even bothering to add C++ support to their IDE
Good question - perhaps to stop people whinging that it isn't there :) (Which may explain the "half arsed implementation"
Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote:
That's ignorance
No it's not - I used VC6 for more than a few years and I loved it - it made coding CPP very simple and straightforward - which is what I mean by "it rocks"....So what if the compiler sucked - with the right knowledge, that could be overcome.... I guess I see the whole C++ / VS2005 deal kinda like the ISA vs PCI thing from a few years back - here's a shiny new tech that is substantially better than what went before, but obviously, we can't just pull support for the old tech for a while yet...but unsurprisingly, if you want to use the old tech, then you have to deal with the fact that it's not going to be as enjoyable an experience as with the new stuff.
Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote:
Why do you think that is? Could it be because C++ is still a dominant language within Microsoft itself?
If THAT were the case, then they would've spent the time and effort making the IDE more usable wouldn't they - I mean can you REALLY see MS developing on something that yer average coder woudn't touch with a pole unless they have to!!!! To be fair, I'm not sure of the figures, but I'm willing to wager that outside the OS group, C++ is most definately NOT the dominant language (And in fact - never was - the OS group are still stuck in plain vanilla C if I recall correctly!), and with the onset of Framework 3.0, this (IMHO) will be the way it goes. (oooooh - just think of all the XAML goodness hehe!) But anyway, I digress - my point was that people are using a DOTNET IDE to attempt non-DOTNET code - and that perhaps people should stop moaning about it..... (And it's not a personal attack on anyone, just I get sick of reading about it - I use 2K5 for upwards of 12 hours a day, and I think it's just fine) "Now I guess I'll sit back and watch people misinterpret what I just said......" Christian Graus At The Soapbox
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Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote:
If it was such a dead language, then why are they even bothering to add C++ support to their IDE
Good question - perhaps to stop people whinging that it isn't there :) (Which may explain the "half arsed implementation"
Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote:
That's ignorance
No it's not - I used VC6 for more than a few years and I loved it - it made coding CPP very simple and straightforward - which is what I mean by "it rocks"....So what if the compiler sucked - with the right knowledge, that could be overcome.... I guess I see the whole C++ / VS2005 deal kinda like the ISA vs PCI thing from a few years back - here's a shiny new tech that is substantially better than what went before, but obviously, we can't just pull support for the old tech for a while yet...but unsurprisingly, if you want to use the old tech, then you have to deal with the fact that it's not going to be as enjoyable an experience as with the new stuff.
Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote:
Why do you think that is? Could it be because C++ is still a dominant language within Microsoft itself?
If THAT were the case, then they would've spent the time and effort making the IDE more usable wouldn't they - I mean can you REALLY see MS developing on something that yer average coder woudn't touch with a pole unless they have to!!!! To be fair, I'm not sure of the figures, but I'm willing to wager that outside the OS group, C++ is most definately NOT the dominant language (And in fact - never was - the OS group are still stuck in plain vanilla C if I recall correctly!), and with the onset of Framework 3.0, this (IMHO) will be the way it goes. (oooooh - just think of all the XAML goodness hehe!) But anyway, I digress - my point was that people are using a DOTNET IDE to attempt non-DOTNET code - and that perhaps people should stop moaning about it..... (And it's not a personal attack on anyone, just I get sick of reading about it - I use 2K5 for upwards of 12 hours a day, and I think it's just fine) "Now I guess I'll sit back and watch people misinterpret what I just said......" Christian Graus At The Soapbox
Spoken like a true VB developer. I know RG is in the UK, or was last time I checked the CCTV records...:), and here in the UK the reality is that there is an absolute shed-load of software which has been written using C++, specifically VC6 (in most cases with at least SP5). That software is not going to go away anytime soon, because no one is going to pay to have it rewritten using the latest technologies, just so it's written using the latest technologies. More importantly, while it's not cost-effective for it to be rewritten, it cannot just be left 'as-is', much of it is covered by 'maintenance' agreements, or needs to be kept running until the .NET version is ready (cough!) or the customers have all scrapped their systems. The analogy that some people I know have drawn is with COBOL. But the truth is that C++ is not just being used for OS type things; it's being used for high-throughput, high-availability stuff, and new software is being developed in it, not just by dinosaurs, but by committed professionals. I don't think C++ was ever a dominant language within Microsoft itself, or VBA would not have inflicted the ugliness of IDispatch upon us. While I'm gaining C# experience all the time, the bulk of my income comes from writing code (and fixing someone else's) in C++. Although the C# market has mushroomed, my experience is that the C++ market isn't disappearing (unless, of course, it's just that the less able are moving to environments where understanding of pointers, reference counting, memory allocation and vtables isn't required. My opinion: compared to the VC6 IDE, VS2005 sucks, but comparing the compilers, VS2005 is an awfully big improvement. I would take issue, though, that the IDE is targeted towards .NET; didn't you notice the dropping of '.NET' from the name? The MS line on this is that people thought you could only write code using .NET with VS, so they were losing sales (!) Steve S Developer for hire
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Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote:
Does that make you a dinosaur next year?
If, like me, you turn 30, the all I can tell you is that I FEEL like a dinosaur now - especially when some nubile young 21year old tries chatting me up :( "Now I guess I'll sit back and watch people misinterpret what I just said......" Christian Graus At The Soapbox
Ha! In your dreams, mate. (As I have an 18 year old daughter, who I made damn sure never met any of my co-workers, this is not a worry I have). If like me, you turned 40 a while back, it makes you want to slap those 30 year-olds. However, with age, comes wisdom and experience (sometimes!), and while I don't carry my years as well as I'd like, in C++ matters, I could leave you for dead in the dust :laugh: Having seen your 'apparently ... on a first date' posting a short while ago, you may also find that you welcome the introduction of national ID cards in the UK, if only to avoid that embarrassing feeling in the morning when you realise that your latest conquest is going to be late for school. Me, I prefer older women; generally speaking, they're more grateful :-O Steve S Developer for hire
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Why not!? Use VS2005 for anything but .NET crap, and you'll know why. Intellisense is just screwed up for C++, and who came up with the new idiotic class view? I argue that a considerable amount of people in the vs2005 team should be fired! They also need to be slapped silly.
-- In Hypno-Vision
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Get yourself a copy of Visual Assist man!!!! Try it for a month and see. All better. Yes it should not have to be like this, but its always been like this. You get used to the class view, and in fact on large projects I much prefer it.
I tried VA with 2003, but I found it full of other annoying bugs and quirks. Perhaps it's better now for 2005? I'll see if I can get the trial version.
-- For proper viewing, take red pill now
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Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote:
Why not!? Use VS2005 for anything but .NET crap, and you'll know why
Oh for FUCK'S SAKE - I'm getting SOOOO sick and fed up of you C++ dinosaurs pissing and whining about this - VS is a ".NET Development Environment" - and for C# / ASP.NET etc...etc.. it's just fine. Just accept that VC++ is a DEAD language and move into the 21st century - but most of all, if you're using the WRONG TOOLS FOR THE JOB (*which you are - VS6 rocked for CPP development!!!*) then stop moaning about it.... (Sounds of Rich running for cover.....:) ) "Now I guess I'll sit back and watch people misinterpret what I just said......" Christian Graus At The Soapbox
Oh that's funny. I'd love to see you write an inproc shell extension using a .NET language, then try to support it as your users start complaining over it breaking other components... ;P Use the right tool for the right job. Both Managed and Unmanaged languages have their niche, and no matter what you think of the fact, VS2005 supports native development. Ergo, it should do a decent job of it... Anna :rose: Currently working mostly on: Visual Lint :cool: Anna's Place | Tears and Laughter "Be yourself - not what others think you should be" - Marcia Graesch "Anna's just a sexy-looking lesbian tart" - A friend, trying to wind me up. It didn't work.
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I tried VA with 2003, but I found it full of other annoying bugs and quirks. Perhaps it's better now for 2005? I'll see if I can get the trial version.
-- For proper viewing, take red pill now
Do It Do It Do It. VA always has some quirks, but they fix them quickly so you cand find the other ones. It's kind of fun.
Some of us walk the memory lane, others plummet into a rabbit hole
Tree in C# || Fold With Us! || sighist -
Why not!? Use VS2005 for anything but .NET crap, and you'll know why. Intellisense is just screwed up for C++, and who came up with the new idiotic class view? I argue that a considerable amount of people in the vs2005 team should be fired! They also need to be slapped silly.
-- In Hypno-Vision
Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote:
They also need to be slapped silly.
As I said before, what would that change ;)
Some of us walk the memory lane, others plummet into a rabbit hole
Tree in C# || Fold With Us! || sighist -
Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote:
Why not!? Use VS2005 for anything but .NET crap, and you'll know why
Oh for FUCK'S SAKE - I'm getting SOOOO sick and fed up of you C++ dinosaurs pissing and whining about this - VS is a ".NET Development Environment" - and for C# / ASP.NET etc...etc.. it's just fine. Just accept that VC++ is a DEAD language and move into the 21st century - but most of all, if you're using the WRONG TOOLS FOR THE JOB (*which you are - VS6 rocked for CPP development!!!*) then stop moaning about it.... (Sounds of Rich running for cover.....:) ) "Now I guess I'll sit back and watch people misinterpret what I just said......" Christian Graus At The Soapbox
RichardGrimmer wrote:
Just accept that VC++ is a DEAD language and move into the 21st century
So, how does that shit that you're full of taste? :-D And why is C++ dead? Because it's native? If that's your reasoning, I think you need a reality check. .NET replaced VB's old market really. There are other markets ya know. In this place called the real world they do exist, just look at your car for one of many examples. Jeremy Falcon
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Do It Do It Do It. VA always has some quirks, but they fix them quickly so you cand find the other ones. It's kind of fun.
Some of us walk the memory lane, others plummet into a rabbit hole
Tree in C# || Fold With Us! || sighistWhen the VS.NET 2003 version of VA first came out, I had the rather unfortunate situation where VA would randomly crop off the bottom of my C# files. That quirk was defiantely not fun. Since then though it's largely been good - I have been using VA for years and wouldn't be without it.
Ðavid Wulff Die Freiheit spielt auf allen Geigen (video)
"trying to throw in unrelated issues to prove a point you don't have." - Jeremy Falcon. -
Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote:
Why not!? Use VS2005 for anything but .NET crap, and you'll know why
Oh for FUCK'S SAKE - I'm getting SOOOO sick and fed up of you C++ dinosaurs pissing and whining about this - VS is a ".NET Development Environment" - and for C# / ASP.NET etc...etc.. it's just fine. Just accept that VC++ is a DEAD language and move into the 21st century - but most of all, if you're using the WRONG TOOLS FOR THE JOB (*which you are - VS6 rocked for CPP development!!!*) then stop moaning about it.... (Sounds of Rich running for cover.....:) ) "Now I guess I'll sit back and watch people misinterpret what I just said......" Christian Graus At The Soapbox
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Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote:
Why not!? Use VS2005 for anything but .NET crap, and you'll know why
Oh for FUCK'S SAKE - I'm getting SOOOO sick and fed up of you C++ dinosaurs pissing and whining about this - VS is a ".NET Development Environment" - and for C# / ASP.NET etc...etc.. it's just fine. Just accept that VC++ is a DEAD language and move into the 21st century - but most of all, if you're using the WRONG TOOLS FOR THE JOB (*which you are - VS6 rocked for CPP development!!!*) then stop moaning about it.... (Sounds of Rich running for cover.....:) ) "Now I guess I'll sit back and watch people misinterpret what I just said......" Christian Graus At The Soapbox
This C++ dinosaur would tear your silly managed head off for your insolence and then leave the mess behind to be garbage collected. Steve
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Why not!? Use VS2005 for anything but .NET crap, and you'll know why. Intellisense is just screwed up for C++, and who came up with the new idiotic class view? I argue that a considerable amount of people in the vs2005 team should be fired! They also need to be slapped silly.
-- In Hypno-Vision
C++ has been the poor stepchild at Microsoft for a long time. First, it was VB getting first support for new technology. Not only first support but support that made using new technoloby easy while C++ developers had to jump through hoops. Now, they've added the new darling C#. Microsoft saw Sun making inroads into the C++ community with a proprietary language and they just had to do it, too. The evolution of the human genome is too important to be left to chance.
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Ha! In your dreams, mate. (As I have an 18 year old daughter, who I made damn sure never met any of my co-workers, this is not a worry I have). If like me, you turned 40 a while back, it makes you want to slap those 30 year-olds. However, with age, comes wisdom and experience (sometimes!), and while I don't carry my years as well as I'd like, in C++ matters, I could leave you for dead in the dust :laugh: Having seen your 'apparently ... on a first date' posting a short while ago, you may also find that you welcome the introduction of national ID cards in the UK, if only to avoid that embarrassing feeling in the morning when you realise that your latest conquest is going to be late for school. Me, I prefer older women; generally speaking, they're more grateful :-O Steve S Developer for hire
Steve S wrote:
if only to avoid that embarrassing feeling in the morning when you realise that your latest conquest is going to be late for school.
Well THAT'S a little nasty Steve don't you think? As it happens, THAT one was almost as old as you! Well OK - 35, so not quite ;) Oh - and ex gf was 21 - so in my dreams huh? But then she is an EX now hehe!
"Now I guess I'll sit back and watch people misinterpret what I just said......" Christian Graus At The Soapbox