i should be allowed to shot my fellow programmers
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do you ever have those days when the only sane and logical solution is to shoot the people you are supposed to be working with? or is this a sign that the hours are getting to me? i feel a "small" rant coming on. the current job is just SLIGHTLY urgent - convert a load of MEDICAL data from one (unknown) format to our format. however the good news is that it is only MEDICAL data, so we dont need to be to bothered about the data quality of the program i produce... well, that seems to be the approach some people are taking :mad: about 90%, or more, of this job is just "understand what has to be done", with the code writing being a fairly small part of the problem. so i have put myself in charge of writing all of the code, since it needs to "just work", and i trust my code to work. plus when i managed to go on holiday for a few days, leaving very clear instructions "do not spent time re-writing code that already works and has been tested successfully, we do not have time" to come back and find people had been... can you guess yet? re-writing code that works and had been tested, because they have all the time in the world, and the deadline does not really exist, or apply to them... *thinks calm thoughts* the last two days though... they took the biscuit. yesterday i handed out the job "think about those screen messages". the answer came back "they look odd, just throw them away". *um* so let me get this right, just throw away MEDICAL data cos it "looks odd"????? and you qualified as a doctor when? and today, i handed out the job "find the dates on these drugs", which finally produced a 2 page document explaining a method. so i read the document. it required: * i use a SQL column that does not exist * failed to tell me the SQL tables to read from * selected data from a column that was NEVER populated * used another never populated column to control an IF statement * used a calculation that was SO easily verified by the end user it might as well have been a random number generator instead of an algorithm * did not give a single example i could test, despite my REPEATED requests, orders, etc, that this had to happen so i had spend time finding out how useful the document was (useless) and then working all of this out myself from first principles. oh look, it is now gone 8pm on Friday, perhaps i will get out of here before 11pm tonight. i can hope. i do NOT have the time before the deadline to do all of the work myself, but when i hand work out to other people, and the result is that i have to re-work
feline_dracoform wrote:
he good news is that it is only MEDICAL data, so we dont need to be to bothered about the data quality of the program i produce...
I hope it isn't a program that controls some life supporting machine or anything that can cause bodily harm. I would go with the notion that any kind of software in the medical area should be quite high quality.
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feline_dracoform wrote:
perhaps i just need a bigger stress ball. my current stress ball weighs 3 pounds (UK imperial units) which is a good start. maybe i need two of them?
How big are your co'workers' heads?
tempting thought... of course they are only working 40 hour weeks, so have long since disappeared.
zen is the art of being at one with the two'ness
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feline_dracoform wrote:
my current stress ball weighs 3 pounds
Maybe you should throw them instead of squeezing them. Throw at, in other words. I understand your angst. I have a client that told me my code is too sophisticated for his staff, so he was going to rewrite the entire thing so that it was "dumbed down". I discovered something. I for the life of me can't understand the new dumbed down code because, while I understand the overall idea of what the methods are supposed to do, I'm expecting to see code the way an experienced developer would write it. :sigh: I'm too smart to read dumbed down code. How ironic is that? No wonder I don't use VB. Marc
Some people believe what the bible says. Literally. At least [with Wikipedia] you have the chance to correct the wiki -- Jörgen Sigvardsson
People are just notoriously impossible. --DavidCrow
Marc Clifton wrote:
I'm too smart to read dumbed down code. How ironic is that? No wonder I don't use VB.
That's the reason I resist .NET entirely! :laugh:
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do you ever have those days when the only sane and logical solution is to shoot the people you are supposed to be working with? or is this a sign that the hours are getting to me? i feel a "small" rant coming on. the current job is just SLIGHTLY urgent - convert a load of MEDICAL data from one (unknown) format to our format. however the good news is that it is only MEDICAL data, so we dont need to be to bothered about the data quality of the program i produce... well, that seems to be the approach some people are taking :mad: about 90%, or more, of this job is just "understand what has to be done", with the code writing being a fairly small part of the problem. so i have put myself in charge of writing all of the code, since it needs to "just work", and i trust my code to work. plus when i managed to go on holiday for a few days, leaving very clear instructions "do not spent time re-writing code that already works and has been tested successfully, we do not have time" to come back and find people had been... can you guess yet? re-writing code that works and had been tested, because they have all the time in the world, and the deadline does not really exist, or apply to them... *thinks calm thoughts* the last two days though... they took the biscuit. yesterday i handed out the job "think about those screen messages". the answer came back "they look odd, just throw them away". *um* so let me get this right, just throw away MEDICAL data cos it "looks odd"????? and you qualified as a doctor when? and today, i handed out the job "find the dates on these drugs", which finally produced a 2 page document explaining a method. so i read the document. it required: * i use a SQL column that does not exist * failed to tell me the SQL tables to read from * selected data from a column that was NEVER populated * used another never populated column to control an IF statement * used a calculation that was SO easily verified by the end user it might as well have been a random number generator instead of an algorithm * did not give a single example i could test, despite my REPEATED requests, orders, etc, that this had to happen so i had spend time finding out how useful the document was (useless) and then working all of this out myself from first principles. oh look, it is now gone 8pm on Friday, perhaps i will get out of here before 11pm tonight. i can hope. i do NOT have the time before the deadline to do all of the work myself, but when i hand work out to other people, and the result is that i have to re-work
feline_dracoform wrote:
produced a 2 page document
At least they documented it :laugh: See my posts below about developers and managers saying documentation isn't necesary
feline_dracoform wrote:
so i need help, but cannot trust some of the people who are supposed to be helping to be any help at all. and i do not have time to train them up, or even put up with them.
Not meaning it to be a cheap shot at outsourcing, but have you/they considered outside help?
only two letters away from being an asset
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feline_dracoform wrote:
my current stress ball weighs 3 pounds
Maybe you should throw them instead of squeezing them. Throw at, in other words. I understand your angst. I have a client that told me my code is too sophisticated for his staff, so he was going to rewrite the entire thing so that it was "dumbed down". I discovered something. I for the life of me can't understand the new dumbed down code because, while I understand the overall idea of what the methods are supposed to do, I'm expecting to see code the way an experienced developer would write it. :sigh: I'm too smart to read dumbed down code. How ironic is that? No wonder I don't use VB. Marc
Some people believe what the bible says. Literally. At least [with Wikipedia] you have the chance to correct the wiki -- Jörgen Sigvardsson
People are just notoriously impossible. --DavidCrow
*** this would make much more sense if it was under Marc Clifton's post, where it was supposed to be *** oh don't tempt me! on bad days i do throw my normal (light and small) stress ball at people who do things like that. so far i have resisted the urge to see how much damage i could do by throwing a large heavy object at great speed into something... but i am not sure how much longer i can hold out. as for code *sigh* that is not helping my mood. due to the time scale i am having to just "make it work", so instead of lots of nice classes that talk to each other endlessly i have one rather large class, that is still growing... *doh* the worst bit? i am re-using an existing code base that i myself wrote, and i am being forced to merge my lovely standalone classes into one monster class, since it is the only solution i can think up in the time scale. this "design pattern" (snort) accurately reflects that data we are going from :(( on the plus side "to smart to understand VB" almost sounds really cool, so you can feel happy about that ;) zen is the art of being at one with the two'ness
Last modified: 21 July 2006 15:22:19 --
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feline_dracoform wrote:
produced a 2 page document
At least they documented it :laugh: See my posts below about developers and managers saying documentation isn't necesary
feline_dracoform wrote:
so i need help, but cannot trust some of the people who are supposed to be helping to be any help at all. and i do not have time to train them up, or even put up with them.
Not meaning it to be a cheap shot at outsourcing, but have you/they considered outside help?
only two letters away from being an asset
Mark Nischalke wrote:
feline_dracoform wrote: produced a 2 page document At least they documented it
:omg: Alert the media! Documented code :-D
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Marc Clifton wrote:
I'm too smart to read dumbed down code. How ironic is that? No wonder I don't use VB.
That's the reason I resist .NET entirely! :laugh:
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do you ever have those days when the only sane and logical solution is to shoot the people you are supposed to be working with? or is this a sign that the hours are getting to me? i feel a "small" rant coming on. the current job is just SLIGHTLY urgent - convert a load of MEDICAL data from one (unknown) format to our format. however the good news is that it is only MEDICAL data, so we dont need to be to bothered about the data quality of the program i produce... well, that seems to be the approach some people are taking :mad: about 90%, or more, of this job is just "understand what has to be done", with the code writing being a fairly small part of the problem. so i have put myself in charge of writing all of the code, since it needs to "just work", and i trust my code to work. plus when i managed to go on holiday for a few days, leaving very clear instructions "do not spent time re-writing code that already works and has been tested successfully, we do not have time" to come back and find people had been... can you guess yet? re-writing code that works and had been tested, because they have all the time in the world, and the deadline does not really exist, or apply to them... *thinks calm thoughts* the last two days though... they took the biscuit. yesterday i handed out the job "think about those screen messages". the answer came back "they look odd, just throw them away". *um* so let me get this right, just throw away MEDICAL data cos it "looks odd"????? and you qualified as a doctor when? and today, i handed out the job "find the dates on these drugs", which finally produced a 2 page document explaining a method. so i read the document. it required: * i use a SQL column that does not exist * failed to tell me the SQL tables to read from * selected data from a column that was NEVER populated * used another never populated column to control an IF statement * used a calculation that was SO easily verified by the end user it might as well have been a random number generator instead of an algorithm * did not give a single example i could test, despite my REPEATED requests, orders, etc, that this had to happen so i had spend time finding out how useful the document was (useless) and then working all of this out myself from first principles. oh look, it is now gone 8pm on Friday, perhaps i will get out of here before 11pm tonight. i can hope. i do NOT have the time before the deadline to do all of the work myself, but when i hand work out to other people, and the result is that i have to re-work
Does the UK have something like the FDA ? I am involved in a medical program, and the FDA requires a lot of documentation for any program to be released, which would have the effect of weeding out people such as you describe. Are you the boss here ? I wonder why you're working and they are not ? I also wonder if you're being a matyr when what you need to be doing is going to a manager and explaining why you're not getting any help, and why it is that the goal is being made unattainable by the incompetence of others. I'm sure your boss would prefer to hear this now than later, when it will sound like weak excuses. What sort of program do you work on, out of interest ?
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ Metal Musings - Rex and my new metal blog
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Mark Nischalke wrote:
feline_dracoform wrote: produced a 2 page document At least they documented it
:omg: Alert the media! Documented code :-D
hey, nearly all of my code is documented! in fact the last comment i inserted was:
// DO NOT ask why the if is done this way, it has to be, just accept it and move onzen is the art of being at one with the two'ness
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feline_dracoform wrote:
my current stress ball weighs 3 pounds
Maybe you should throw them instead of squeezing them. Throw at, in other words. I understand your angst. I have a client that told me my code is too sophisticated for his staff, so he was going to rewrite the entire thing so that it was "dumbed down". I discovered something. I for the life of me can't understand the new dumbed down code because, while I understand the overall idea of what the methods are supposed to do, I'm expecting to see code the way an experienced developer would write it. :sigh: I'm too smart to read dumbed down code. How ironic is that? No wonder I don't use VB. Marc
Some people believe what the bible says. Literally. At least [with Wikipedia] you have the chance to correct the wiki -- Jörgen Sigvardsson
People are just notoriously impossible. --DavidCrow
I had a programmer tell me that it is to confusing to break out repetitive code into private methods. He preferred to have huge 100+ line methods that he would copy and paste repetitive blocks of code repeatedly. To me it is much harder to understand monster methods let alone try to extend or modify. I gave up trying to convince him it just made my head hurt.
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hey, nearly all of my code is documented! in fact the last comment i inserted was:
// DO NOT ask why the if is done this way, it has to be, just accept it and move onzen is the art of being at one with the two'ness
feline_dracoform wrote:
// DO NOT ask why the if is done this way, it has to be, just accept it and move on
Nice. I was just thinking of something like:
// Google it!:-> -
Does the UK have something like the FDA ? I am involved in a medical program, and the FDA requires a lot of documentation for any program to be released, which would have the effect of weeding out people such as you describe. Are you the boss here ? I wonder why you're working and they are not ? I also wonder if you're being a matyr when what you need to be doing is going to a manager and explaining why you're not getting any help, and why it is that the goal is being made unattainable by the incompetence of others. I'm sure your boss would prefer to hear this now than later, when it will sound like weak excuses. What sort of program do you work on, out of interest ?
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ Metal Musings - Rex and my new metal blog
sensible questions :) sometimes i have dealings with the NHS (National Health Service), but having seen some of the paperwork they give us... i would not place much faith in paper work weeding out problems *sigh* i am not the boss, just a "senior programmer" in a small place. i am avoiding talking to some of the management, because they keep on making distressing suggestions, which boil down to "just ignore the hard bits". that will make more sense when you know what i am currently doing. as for informing people, i am on the verge of another "explosion", so people will be told what is going on, whether they will listen or not is a different matter *sigh* there is certainly a degree of being a martyr *mutters darkly* i take pride in my work, and find it very hard to just walk away from a job done badly. the current program is basically "reverse engineer a competitors data storage method and convert all stored data". the stored data is medical records, which makes it even harder for me to just say "that's close enough" if you have ever tried something like this you will appreciate that it requires a certain amount of experience, and also a certain mind set. throwing people at the job who have no idea what is involved, or what is required of them is not helping. at times like this i think "i need to accelerate current plan for moving completely to the other job"
zen is the art of being at one with the two'ness
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do you ever have those days when the only sane and logical solution is to shoot the people you are supposed to be working with? or is this a sign that the hours are getting to me? i feel a "small" rant coming on. the current job is just SLIGHTLY urgent - convert a load of MEDICAL data from one (unknown) format to our format. however the good news is that it is only MEDICAL data, so we dont need to be to bothered about the data quality of the program i produce... well, that seems to be the approach some people are taking :mad: about 90%, or more, of this job is just "understand what has to be done", with the code writing being a fairly small part of the problem. so i have put myself in charge of writing all of the code, since it needs to "just work", and i trust my code to work. plus when i managed to go on holiday for a few days, leaving very clear instructions "do not spent time re-writing code that already works and has been tested successfully, we do not have time" to come back and find people had been... can you guess yet? re-writing code that works and had been tested, because they have all the time in the world, and the deadline does not really exist, or apply to them... *thinks calm thoughts* the last two days though... they took the biscuit. yesterday i handed out the job "think about those screen messages". the answer came back "they look odd, just throw them away". *um* so let me get this right, just throw away MEDICAL data cos it "looks odd"????? and you qualified as a doctor when? and today, i handed out the job "find the dates on these drugs", which finally produced a 2 page document explaining a method. so i read the document. it required: * i use a SQL column that does not exist * failed to tell me the SQL tables to read from * selected data from a column that was NEVER populated * used another never populated column to control an IF statement * used a calculation that was SO easily verified by the end user it might as well have been a random number generator instead of an algorithm * did not give a single example i could test, despite my REPEATED requests, orders, etc, that this had to happen so i had spend time finding out how useful the document was (useless) and then working all of this out myself from first principles. oh look, it is now gone 8pm on Friday, perhaps i will get out of here before 11pm tonight. i can hope. i do NOT have the time before the deadline to do all of the work myself, but when i hand work out to other people, and the result is that i have to re-work
feline_dracoform wrote:
is to shoot the people you are supposed to be working with?
Yes, Lately a lot more than in the past years. But then again we obtained some real gems. FYI, My request for a nail gun and compressor was turned down as it was not in the standerd equipment list. darn.
"Yes I know the voices are not real. But they have some pretty good ideas."
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feline_dracoform wrote:
is to shoot the people you are supposed to be working with?
Yes, Lately a lot more than in the past years. But then again we obtained some real gems. FYI, My request for a nail gun and compressor was turned down as it was not in the standerd equipment list. darn.
"Yes I know the voices are not real. But they have some pretty good ideas."
Michael A. Barnhart wrote:
Yes I know the voices are not real. But they have some pretty good ideas.
:laugh::laugh::laugh:
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feline_dracoform wrote:
my current stress ball weighs 3 pounds
Maybe you should throw them instead of squeezing them. Throw at, in other words. I understand your angst. I have a client that told me my code is too sophisticated for his staff, so he was going to rewrite the entire thing so that it was "dumbed down". I discovered something. I for the life of me can't understand the new dumbed down code because, while I understand the overall idea of what the methods are supposed to do, I'm expecting to see code the way an experienced developer would write it. :sigh: I'm too smart to read dumbed down code. How ironic is that? No wonder I don't use VB. Marc
Some people believe what the bible says. Literally. At least [with Wikipedia] you have the chance to correct the wiki -- Jörgen Sigvardsson
People are just notoriously impossible. --DavidCrow
Marc Clifton wrote:
he was going to rewrite the entire thing so that it was "dumbed down"
Good God. I trust you are waiting for the check to clear, and then will run far away.
Software Zen:
delete this; -
do you ever have those days when the only sane and logical solution is to shoot the people you are supposed to be working with? or is this a sign that the hours are getting to me? i feel a "small" rant coming on. the current job is just SLIGHTLY urgent - convert a load of MEDICAL data from one (unknown) format to our format. however the good news is that it is only MEDICAL data, so we dont need to be to bothered about the data quality of the program i produce... well, that seems to be the approach some people are taking :mad: about 90%, or more, of this job is just "understand what has to be done", with the code writing being a fairly small part of the problem. so i have put myself in charge of writing all of the code, since it needs to "just work", and i trust my code to work. plus when i managed to go on holiday for a few days, leaving very clear instructions "do not spent time re-writing code that already works and has been tested successfully, we do not have time" to come back and find people had been... can you guess yet? re-writing code that works and had been tested, because they have all the time in the world, and the deadline does not really exist, or apply to them... *thinks calm thoughts* the last two days though... they took the biscuit. yesterday i handed out the job "think about those screen messages". the answer came back "they look odd, just throw them away". *um* so let me get this right, just throw away MEDICAL data cos it "looks odd"????? and you qualified as a doctor when? and today, i handed out the job "find the dates on these drugs", which finally produced a 2 page document explaining a method. so i read the document. it required: * i use a SQL column that does not exist * failed to tell me the SQL tables to read from * selected data from a column that was NEVER populated * used another never populated column to control an IF statement * used a calculation that was SO easily verified by the end user it might as well have been a random number generator instead of an algorithm * did not give a single example i could test, despite my REPEATED requests, orders, etc, that this had to happen so i had spend time finding out how useful the document was (useless) and then working all of this out myself from first principles. oh look, it is now gone 8pm on Friday, perhaps i will get out of here before 11pm tonight. i can hope. i do NOT have the time before the deadline to do all of the work myself, but when i hand work out to other people, and the result is that i have to re-work
What about the person in charge of them?
