The WalMart concept does not work everywhere
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congratulations! i wish we could thin our population a bit - they seem to show up every 10 miles here in the US. i always find Wal*Marts depressing - grubby, full of crappy stuff and annoying people. i refuse to shop there.
Why donchoo take a peekchur mayn? OK, cleeeeek
Yeah, I have not been in a Wal*mart now for over a year. It is a shame though as it is a massive retailer and would work great if they paid those making products a bit more to gain some decent quality along with treating their employees and supplers good. While I do not agree with thier policy of being a retailer front to the lowest possible price prodcuts, I keep hoping they will change their ways. Oh well, there is always CostCo :)
Rocky <>< Latest Code Blog Post: ASP.NET HttpException - Cannot use leading "..".. Latest Tech Blog Post: Anti-Spam idea - Help!
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congratulations! i wish we could thin our population a bit - they seem to show up every 10 miles here in the US. i always find Wal*Marts depressing - grubby, full of crappy stuff and annoying people. i refuse to shop there.
Why donchoo take a peekchur mayn? OK, cleeeeek
In south florida I would rather but a bullet in my head than go to a walmart. Crappy carts, beligerent and offensive customers, poor layout, bad carts, the list goes on. Yet I go to a walmart here in Tulsa and it is better than the local mall. Even all of the shopping carts work!
A man said to the universe: "Sir I exist!" "However," replied the Universe, "The fact has not created in me A sense of obligation." -- Stephen Crane
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Here are some good news: No more Mal Mart stores in Germany. Finally, they'll leave us alone! :cool: http://www.union-network.org/UNICommerce.nsf/0/34B5020875B021ADC12571B900362101?OpenDocument "Wal-Mart has thrown in the towel in Germany and will sell its 85 hypermarkets to the Metro Group. The American retailer was never able to run its German operations profitably. From morning cheers to cutting personnel and closing stores, almost everything was tried, but still it did not work. [...] Now the Bentonville managers have seen that walmartization of working life does not work where unions are strong, be it here or in South Korea which the company is also leaving. [...] When the Bentonville multinational tried to establish its American business concept in Germany, things started to go wrong. Shopping patterns were different, as was competition. There were also questions asked about whether the company had really bought the right store network. It was not even enough to subsidise the German operations with money earned through low wages and poor helth insurance in Wal-Mart's main US markets. Allowing the bottom line in Germany to go red by hundreds of millions USD and engaging in brutal price wars in vain attempts to gain market shares, Wal-Mart tried to use its dominant global market position to press its competitors. But Wal-Mart's concept does not travel, Metro Group CEO Hans-Joachim Körber said a few years ago. Today we can see that he was right, when Germany's Wal-Marts now will turn into Real hypermarkets." Good Bye, Wal Mart ... or should I say Good Buy? coco
Corinna John wrote:
Good Bye, Wal Mart ... or should I say Good Buy?
How about Goodbye and Good Riddance! Good for you folks in Germany. I'm not exactly thrilled that they were ousted because of string unions, I would rather they be ousted by consumer choice, but still, good riddance. In America, their success is a reflection of consumer choice which is a reflection, IMO, of how poorly educated our consumers are and, quite frankly, how poor most of them are as well. After all, the mom & pop shops that had higher prices that went out of business, well, those folks are now poor, and guess where they have to shop? It's spiral that I don't see an end to, until we're left with vast tracts of megachain stores with little hot spots where there's enough progressive community members earning high enough wages to actually support local retailers. And frankly, those will be supported only by the likes of the CEO's and top managers of exactly those same megachain/megacorp stores. Go figure. The world is a crazy place. Marc -- modified at 10:48 Friday 28th July, 2006
Some people believe what the bible says. Literally. At least [with Wikipedia] you have the chance to correct the wiki -- Jörgen Sigvardsson
People are just notoriously impossible. --DavidCrow
There's NO excuse for not commenting your code. -- John Simmons / outlaw programmer -
congratulations! i wish we could thin our population a bit - they seem to show up every 10 miles here in the US. i always find Wal*Marts depressing - grubby, full of crappy stuff and annoying people. i refuse to shop there.
Why donchoo take a peekchur mayn? OK, cleeeeek
Chris Losinger wrote:
grubby, full of crappy stuff and annoying people.
I realize I'm not being kind here, but geez, I have never seen so many overweight, sickly, poor, and in need of medical attention (ranging from real attention to cosmetic things like dental work) group of people in one place than I do when I have the unfortunate but rare reason to go to WalMart. And I'm talking consumers, too. And what gets me is, you look at what these people are buying from the food isles, and it's all garbage. It's very, very, sad. Marc
Some people believe what the bible says. Literally. At least [with Wikipedia] you have the chance to correct the wiki -- Jörgen Sigvardsson
People are just notoriously impossible. --DavidCrow
There's NO excuse for not commenting your code. -- John Simmons / outlaw programmer -
Here are some good news: No more Mal Mart stores in Germany. Finally, they'll leave us alone! :cool: http://www.union-network.org/UNICommerce.nsf/0/34B5020875B021ADC12571B900362101?OpenDocument "Wal-Mart has thrown in the towel in Germany and will sell its 85 hypermarkets to the Metro Group. The American retailer was never able to run its German operations profitably. From morning cheers to cutting personnel and closing stores, almost everything was tried, but still it did not work. [...] Now the Bentonville managers have seen that walmartization of working life does not work where unions are strong, be it here or in South Korea which the company is also leaving. [...] When the Bentonville multinational tried to establish its American business concept in Germany, things started to go wrong. Shopping patterns were different, as was competition. There were also questions asked about whether the company had really bought the right store network. It was not even enough to subsidise the German operations with money earned through low wages and poor helth insurance in Wal-Mart's main US markets. Allowing the bottom line in Germany to go red by hundreds of millions USD and engaging in brutal price wars in vain attempts to gain market shares, Wal-Mart tried to use its dominant global market position to press its competitors. But Wal-Mart's concept does not travel, Metro Group CEO Hans-Joachim Körber said a few years ago. Today we can see that he was right, when Germany's Wal-Marts now will turn into Real hypermarkets." Good Bye, Wal Mart ... or should I say Good Buy? coco
From the article:
The ban on love affairs that the Bentonville managers tried to impose was received with wry smiles.
Just curious. I have always been told and do believe that "love affairs" at work are generally a bad idea? For me it seems that there is just too much potential for things to go awry. Is this different in your country? The fact that it was mentioned in the article leads me to think it is a "big deal" that Wally-World disallowed them.
Hey don't worry, I can handle it. I took something. I can see things no one else can see. Why are you dressed like that? - Jack Burton
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Here are some good news: No more Mal Mart stores in Germany. Finally, they'll leave us alone! :cool: http://www.union-network.org/UNICommerce.nsf/0/34B5020875B021ADC12571B900362101?OpenDocument "Wal-Mart has thrown in the towel in Germany and will sell its 85 hypermarkets to the Metro Group. The American retailer was never able to run its German operations profitably. From morning cheers to cutting personnel and closing stores, almost everything was tried, but still it did not work. [...] Now the Bentonville managers have seen that walmartization of working life does not work where unions are strong, be it here or in South Korea which the company is also leaving. [...] When the Bentonville multinational tried to establish its American business concept in Germany, things started to go wrong. Shopping patterns were different, as was competition. There were also questions asked about whether the company had really bought the right store network. It was not even enough to subsidise the German operations with money earned through low wages and poor helth insurance in Wal-Mart's main US markets. Allowing the bottom line in Germany to go red by hundreds of millions USD and engaging in brutal price wars in vain attempts to gain market shares, Wal-Mart tried to use its dominant global market position to press its competitors. But Wal-Mart's concept does not travel, Metro Group CEO Hans-Joachim Körber said a few years ago. Today we can see that he was right, when Germany's Wal-Marts now will turn into Real hypermarkets." Good Bye, Wal Mart ... or should I say Good Buy? coco
Corinna John wrote:
But Wal-Mart's concept does not travel
I'm not a big fan of walmart, but I don't see what is being celebrated here. Walmart doesn't allow unions in the US for the simple reason that it doesn't work for their business model. They tried running stores in a country with strong unions and failed. That's not a big surprise. Strong unions in america's automobile industry make US car companies turn to contractors instead of hiring full-time workers. I, for one, think unions can very quickly become too powerful and stagnate competition. Maybe you're happy you have strong unions; I wouldn't be.
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Chris Losinger wrote:
grubby, full of crappy stuff and annoying people.
I realize I'm not being kind here, but geez, I have never seen so many overweight, sickly, poor, and in need of medical attention (ranging from real attention to cosmetic things like dental work) group of people in one place than I do when I have the unfortunate but rare reason to go to WalMart. And I'm talking consumers, too. And what gets me is, you look at what these people are buying from the food isles, and it's all garbage. It's very, very, sad. Marc
Some people believe what the bible says. Literally. At least [with Wikipedia] you have the chance to correct the wiki -- Jörgen Sigvardsson
People are just notoriously impossible. --DavidCrow
There's NO excuse for not commenting your code. -- John Simmons / outlaw programmerMarc Clifton wrote:
I realize I'm not being kind here, but geez, I have never seen so many overweight, sickly, poor, and in need of medical attention (ranging from real attention to cosmetic things like dental work) group of people in one place than I do when I have the unfortunate but rare reason to go to WalMart. And I'm talking consumers, too. And what gets me is, you look at what these people are buying from the food isles, and it's all garbage. It's very, very, sad.
Amen. Just this morning I was commenting to a co-worker about this very topic after visiting a local WalMart one evening this week. I particularly "like" the 20 something year old, seriously obese tatooed "women" who can't walk so they glide around in the little electric carts. I just want to scream "Exercise, stop buying junk food and you might lose a few hundred pounds!!!"
"The trouble with jogging is that the ice falls out of your glass." - Martin Mull
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congratulations! i wish we could thin our population a bit - they seem to show up every 10 miles here in the US. i always find Wal*Marts depressing - grubby, full of crappy stuff and annoying people. i refuse to shop there.
Why donchoo take a peekchur mayn? OK, cleeeeek
I find myself braving Wal-mart maybe 3-4 times a year, desperately hoping find some item or other, and invariably walk out empty handed, depressed and disgusted.
BW
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
-- Steven Wright -
congratulations! i wish we could thin our population a bit - they seem to show up every 10 miles here in the US. i always find Wal*Marts depressing - grubby, full of crappy stuff and annoying people. i refuse to shop there.
Why donchoo take a peekchur mayn? OK, cleeeeek
It's nice you have a choice. I live in one of the locations where all of the local businesses went belly up after WalMart had been here long enough :sigh:.
Software Zen:
delete this; -
I find myself braving Wal-mart maybe 3-4 times a year, desperately hoping find some item or other, and invariably walk out empty handed, depressed and disgusted.
BW
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
-- Steven WrightHappened to me yesterday. I have a bit of an upset tummy so I wanted to pick up some Imodium to try and make it through the day. Unfortunately Wal-mart was the closest and time was against me. Nobody was manning the registers. When I started asking for help I got attitude from the employees. After waiting 10 minutes for someone just to take my money I gave up and ran to the nearest CVS.
Hey don't worry, I can handle it. I took something. I can see things no one else can see. Why are you dressed like that? - Jack Burton
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It's nice you have a choice. I live in one of the locations where all of the local businesses went belly up after WalMart had been here long enough :sigh:.
Software Zen:
delete this;i probably do 90% of my non-food shopping on-line. when i was in college, i would drive all over the city on weekends, hitting various record and book stores, browsing. now, all those stores have closed. i can go to mall record stores and look at their lousy selection, or i can use iTunes and various on-line mail order places. easy choice. -- modified at 11:28 Friday 28th July, 2006
Why donchoo take a peekchur mayn? OK, cleeeeek
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Here are some good news: No more Mal Mart stores in Germany. Finally, they'll leave us alone! :cool: http://www.union-network.org/UNICommerce.nsf/0/34B5020875B021ADC12571B900362101?OpenDocument "Wal-Mart has thrown in the towel in Germany and will sell its 85 hypermarkets to the Metro Group. The American retailer was never able to run its German operations profitably. From morning cheers to cutting personnel and closing stores, almost everything was tried, but still it did not work. [...] Now the Bentonville managers have seen that walmartization of working life does not work where unions are strong, be it here or in South Korea which the company is also leaving. [...] When the Bentonville multinational tried to establish its American business concept in Germany, things started to go wrong. Shopping patterns were different, as was competition. There were also questions asked about whether the company had really bought the right store network. It was not even enough to subsidise the German operations with money earned through low wages and poor helth insurance in Wal-Mart's main US markets. Allowing the bottom line in Germany to go red by hundreds of millions USD and engaging in brutal price wars in vain attempts to gain market shares, Wal-Mart tried to use its dominant global market position to press its competitors. But Wal-Mart's concept does not travel, Metro Group CEO Hans-Joachim Körber said a few years ago. Today we can see that he was right, when Germany's Wal-Marts now will turn into Real hypermarkets." Good Bye, Wal Mart ... or should I say Good Buy? coco
Why do you sound happy about this? Yes, I am not a big fan of Walmart, but neither am I a big fan of Unions. The German people do not want to do morning cheers? Give me a break. This is no different a tactic to raise morale and build a sense of team than a soccer team having a rah rah session before a big game or a boxers coach pumping them up before a big fight. Geeze man... As far as quality and price go, you get what you pay for. I have bought crappy stuff at a walmart and have also bought good stuff there. It all depends on the 'STUFF'. You buy a TV there, as long as you buy a decent brand how can it matter? So the union has flexed it's muscle and forced a company out of a region. Big deal. I doubt that Walmart will go cower into a corner over it. 85 stores to them is a hardly a drop in the bucket. When I worked for Lenscrafters many moons ago we had a go at the euro market and tried to open several stores in the UK and found it impossible. The costs were so friggin high because shippers wanted a mint, all the store managers demanded company cars because 'well that's just how it is bloody done in the UK chap'... I guess the US is just a unique place with a unique mindset. Maybe that is good, maybe that is bad...
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Corinna John wrote:
Good Bye, Wal Mart ... or should I say Good Buy?
How about Goodbye and Good Riddance! Good for you folks in Germany. I'm not exactly thrilled that they were ousted because of string unions, I would rather they be ousted by consumer choice, but still, good riddance. In America, their success is a reflection of consumer choice which is a reflection, IMO, of how poorly educated our consumers are and, quite frankly, how poor most of them are as well. After all, the mom & pop shops that had higher prices that went out of business, well, those folks are now poor, and guess where they have to shop? It's spiral that I don't see an end to, until we're left with vast tracts of megachain stores with little hot spots where there's enough progressive community members earning high enough wages to actually support local retailers. And frankly, those will be supported only by the likes of the CEO's and top managers of exactly those same megachain/megacorp stores. Go figure. The world is a crazy place. Marc -- modified at 10:48 Friday 28th July, 2006
Some people believe what the bible says. Literally. At least [with Wikipedia] you have the chance to correct the wiki -- Jörgen Sigvardsson
People are just notoriously impossible. --DavidCrow
There's NO excuse for not commenting your code. -- John Simmons / outlaw programmerI guess moral superiority is worth the high prices and poor selection those mom & pop stores had. I well remember various mom and pop stores. Some were good, but many had high prices, poor quality, limited selection, and would try to rip you off worse than any big box retailer. I like low prices, wide selection, and stores being open until 10 at night.
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Why do you sound happy about this? Yes, I am not a big fan of Walmart, but neither am I a big fan of Unions. The German people do not want to do morning cheers? Give me a break. This is no different a tactic to raise morale and build a sense of team than a soccer team having a rah rah session before a big game or a boxers coach pumping them up before a big fight. Geeze man... As far as quality and price go, you get what you pay for. I have bought crappy stuff at a walmart and have also bought good stuff there. It all depends on the 'STUFF'. You buy a TV there, as long as you buy a decent brand how can it matter? So the union has flexed it's muscle and forced a company out of a region. Big deal. I doubt that Walmart will go cower into a corner over it. 85 stores to them is a hardly a drop in the bucket. When I worked for Lenscrafters many moons ago we had a go at the euro market and tried to open several stores in the UK and found it impossible. The costs were so friggin high because shippers wanted a mint, all the store managers demanded company cars because 'well that's just how it is bloody done in the UK chap'... I guess the US is just a unique place with a unique mindset. Maybe that is good, maybe that is bad...
Ray Cassick wrote:
Why do you sound happy about this?
I was thinking the same thing. Granted, I'm certainly no fan of Wal-Mart (CostCo is where it's at...better quality at lower prices!), why would you actually want to discourage business?
"Everything I listed is intended to eliminate the tyranny of the majority." -Vincent Reynolds on American Democracy
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Why do you sound happy about this? Yes, I am not a big fan of Walmart, but neither am I a big fan of Unions. The German people do not want to do morning cheers? Give me a break. This is no different a tactic to raise morale and build a sense of team than a soccer team having a rah rah session before a big game or a boxers coach pumping them up before a big fight. Geeze man... As far as quality and price go, you get what you pay for. I have bought crappy stuff at a walmart and have also bought good stuff there. It all depends on the 'STUFF'. You buy a TV there, as long as you buy a decent brand how can it matter? So the union has flexed it's muscle and forced a company out of a region. Big deal. I doubt that Walmart will go cower into a corner over it. 85 stores to them is a hardly a drop in the bucket. When I worked for Lenscrafters many moons ago we had a go at the euro market and tried to open several stores in the UK and found it impossible. The costs were so friggin high because shippers wanted a mint, all the store managers demanded company cars because 'well that's just how it is bloody done in the UK chap'... I guess the US is just a unique place with a unique mindset. Maybe that is good, maybe that is bad...
Ray Cassick wrote:
The German people do not want to do morning cheers?
:laugh: Could you imagine having to do morning cheers before cutting some code. I think that would last about one day with me. Personally I don't know a single adult that would put up with being treated like a child like that.
Hey don't worry, I can handle it. I took something. I can see things no one else can see. Why are you dressed like that? - Jack Burton
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Chris Losinger wrote:
grubby, full of crappy stuff and annoying people.
I realize I'm not being kind here, but geez, I have never seen so many overweight, sickly, poor, and in need of medical attention (ranging from real attention to cosmetic things like dental work) group of people in one place than I do when I have the unfortunate but rare reason to go to WalMart. And I'm talking consumers, too. And what gets me is, you look at what these people are buying from the food isles, and it's all garbage. It's very, very, sad. Marc
Some people believe what the bible says. Literally. At least [with Wikipedia] you have the chance to correct the wiki -- Jörgen Sigvardsson
People are just notoriously impossible. --DavidCrow
There's NO excuse for not commenting your code. -- John Simmons / outlaw programmerMarc Clifton wrote:
people are buying from the food isles, and it's all garbage
Nearly everything edible that is factory produced has so many "added" ingredients (added salt, added sugar, added presevatives and so forth) that can't necessarily be classed as healthy, wouldn't be manufactured unless people actively purchased the stuff. And if governments were possitively and actively promoting the eating of healthy foodstuffs, then general health would improve and health problems such as heart disease, strokes, diabetis, and others related to glutony, would reduce. I am pretty sure that manufacturers and retailers of foodstuff would alter their product range so that it becomes more healthy. But there is a "fly in the ointment", that being the pressure groups, represented by big manufacturers like Kraft, and retailers like Walmart (ASDA in UK) and MacDonnalds. As far as people looking ill or poorly, if the likes of Walmart are permitting such ill people to work with foodstuff, surely there is a public health issue to resolve. Unlike the USA where all healthcare is expensive, so I can understand why individual may choose not to seek medical help because of the costs involved, in the UK healthcare is essentially zero cost to the individual (at the point of delivery) as the taxation (and our National Insurance) of UK persons is used for payment of such services. (yes dental care in UK is different - these are generally payable by individuals) I know that this UK National Health Service is a Socialist thing, but it works here in the UK. As we both live in democratic capitalistic countries, then the individual must be free to choose for themselves the life and lifestyle they consider relevant for them, howsoever repugnant it may be in the eyes of someone else.
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Chris Losinger wrote:
grubby, full of crappy stuff and annoying people.
I realize I'm not being kind here, but geez, I have never seen so many overweight, sickly, poor, and in need of medical attention (ranging from real attention to cosmetic things like dental work) group of people in one place than I do when I have the unfortunate but rare reason to go to WalMart. And I'm talking consumers, too. And what gets me is, you look at what these people are buying from the food isles, and it's all garbage. It's very, very, sad. Marc
Some people believe what the bible says. Literally. At least [with Wikipedia] you have the chance to correct the wiki -- Jörgen Sigvardsson
People are just notoriously impossible. --DavidCrow
There's NO excuse for not commenting your code. -- John Simmons / outlaw programmerSo true. I guess I am just in my own world but I never paid attention to the people while there. Now, I am having flash backs to this weeks emergency trip. You are so right about this.
Hey don't worry, I can handle it. I took something. I can see things no one else can see. Why are you dressed like that? - Jack Burton
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From the article:
The ban on love affairs that the Bentonville managers tried to impose was received with wry smiles.
Just curious. I have always been told and do believe that "love affairs" at work are generally a bad idea? For me it seems that there is just too much potential for things to go awry. Is this different in your country? The fact that it was mentioned in the article leads me to think it is a "big deal" that Wally-World disallowed them.
Hey don't worry, I can handle it. I took something. I can see things no one else can see. Why are you dressed like that? - Jack Burton
Chris Austin wrote:
Just curious. I have always been told and do believe that "love affairs" at work are generally a bad idea?
Don't get your bread and meat at the same market. Or, with less innuendo, don't get your honey where you make your money. On rare occassion it works out. On other occassions you end up with an awkward work situation, or worse, unemployed due to sexual harassment claims.
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Corinna John wrote:
Good Bye, Wal Mart ... or should I say Good Buy?
How about Goodbye and Good Riddance! Good for you folks in Germany. I'm not exactly thrilled that they were ousted because of string unions, I would rather they be ousted by consumer choice, but still, good riddance. In America, their success is a reflection of consumer choice which is a reflection, IMO, of how poorly educated our consumers are and, quite frankly, how poor most of them are as well. After all, the mom & pop shops that had higher prices that went out of business, well, those folks are now poor, and guess where they have to shop? It's spiral that I don't see an end to, until we're left with vast tracts of megachain stores with little hot spots where there's enough progressive community members earning high enough wages to actually support local retailers. And frankly, those will be supported only by the likes of the CEO's and top managers of exactly those same megachain/megacorp stores. Go figure. The world is a crazy place. Marc -- modified at 10:48 Friday 28th July, 2006
Some people believe what the bible says. Literally. At least [with Wikipedia] you have the chance to correct the wiki -- Jörgen Sigvardsson
People are just notoriously impossible. --DavidCrow
There's NO excuse for not commenting your code. -- John Simmons / outlaw programmerMarc Clifton wrote:
until we're left with vast tracts of megachain stores
Do you suspect that when there are only megachain stores left, there might be the temptation to capitalize on their price structures given that there is no competition therefore no need to be competitive? As far as locally owned/run shops/businesses are concerned, it is true "Use it or lose it". Also, as far as Walmart is concerned, is my memory right insofar that the owner(s) of Walmart, their personal fortune makes them almost as rich as Microsoft's Bill Gates. From your comment about unions, you have a dislike for unions. I understand that unions in USA are not particularly strong.
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Marc Clifton wrote:
people are buying from the food isles, and it's all garbage
Nearly everything edible that is factory produced has so many "added" ingredients (added salt, added sugar, added presevatives and so forth) that can't necessarily be classed as healthy, wouldn't be manufactured unless people actively purchased the stuff. And if governments were possitively and actively promoting the eating of healthy foodstuffs, then general health would improve and health problems such as heart disease, strokes, diabetis, and others related to glutony, would reduce. I am pretty sure that manufacturers and retailers of foodstuff would alter their product range so that it becomes more healthy. But there is a "fly in the ointment", that being the pressure groups, represented by big manufacturers like Kraft, and retailers like Walmart (ASDA in UK) and MacDonnalds. As far as people looking ill or poorly, if the likes of Walmart are permitting such ill people to work with foodstuff, surely there is a public health issue to resolve. Unlike the USA where all healthcare is expensive, so I can understand why individual may choose not to seek medical help because of the costs involved, in the UK healthcare is essentially zero cost to the individual (at the point of delivery) as the taxation (and our National Insurance) of UK persons is used for payment of such services. (yes dental care in UK is different - these are generally payable by individuals) I know that this UK National Health Service is a Socialist thing, but it works here in the UK. As we both live in democratic capitalistic countries, then the individual must be free to choose for themselves the life and lifestyle they consider relevant for them, howsoever repugnant it may be in the eyes of someone else.
Richard A. Abbott wrote:
And if governments were possitively and actively promoting the eating of healthy foodstuffs, then general health would improve
The government already is doing way too much, IMO. It's not the government's responsibility. It's the consumers. And in the US (and probably elsewhere), we seem to have consumers with a very low IQ. Marc
Some people believe what the bible says. Literally. At least [with Wikipedia] you have the chance to correct the wiki -- Jörgen Sigvardsson
People are just notoriously impossible. --DavidCrow
There's NO excuse for not commenting your code. -- John Simmons / outlaw programmer