The WalMart concept does not work everywhere
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Corinna John wrote:
Good Bye, Wal Mart ... or should I say Good Buy?
How about Goodbye and Good Riddance! Good for you folks in Germany. I'm not exactly thrilled that they were ousted because of string unions, I would rather they be ousted by consumer choice, but still, good riddance. In America, their success is a reflection of consumer choice which is a reflection, IMO, of how poorly educated our consumers are and, quite frankly, how poor most of them are as well. After all, the mom & pop shops that had higher prices that went out of business, well, those folks are now poor, and guess where they have to shop? It's spiral that I don't see an end to, until we're left with vast tracts of megachain stores with little hot spots where there's enough progressive community members earning high enough wages to actually support local retailers. And frankly, those will be supported only by the likes of the CEO's and top managers of exactly those same megachain/megacorp stores. Go figure. The world is a crazy place. Marc -- modified at 10:48 Friday 28th July, 2006
Some people believe what the bible says. Literally. At least [with Wikipedia] you have the chance to correct the wiki -- Jörgen Sigvardsson
People are just notoriously impossible. --DavidCrow
There's NO excuse for not commenting your code. -- John Simmons / outlaw programmerMarc Clifton wrote:
After all, the mom & pop shops that had higher prices that went out of business, well, those folks are now poor, and guess where they have to shop?
How how is MS any different? Nobody climbs to the top without stepping on a few heads - it's impossible.
Jeremy Falcon
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Sounds like a waste of time to me. Then again, most daily meeting are.
Ray Cassick wrote:
I guess it is just the mindset of the poeple then.
Exactly. And it sounds like the mindset of these people is that of an adult.
Ray Cassick wrote:
I have no problem with a compnay trying to get you in the right mindset before a task.
Isn't that a part of having defined roles and expectations. These moring cheers sound a lot like company "cake" days. Nothing more than treating the symptons of poor management.
Ray Cassick wrote:
Maybe programmers would have to sit in a room and do a vocal power code review or something.
Not on a daily basis...what an expensive operation that would be.
Hey don't worry, I can handle it. I took something. I can see things no one else can see. Why are you dressed like that? - Jack Burton
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Stuart van Weele wrote:
And you propose????
Short answer: I don't have one yet. Long answer (somewhat rantish): :rolleyes: Why is pointing out that something isn't working right always followed up with a "and you propose" response? WTF is with that (not directed at you in particular)? My only opinion on the matter is that, after seeing how a free market economy works as a global market takes over, and after doing some thinking on the issue (granted that I'm not an economist), I've come to a certain conclusion. That doesn't mean that I have figured out a better solution at this point. But I think it is perfectly valid to say "hey, I don't think this is working" and let the experts figure out the right answer. Not that I have faith in the experts, but that's different issue. Marc
Some people believe what the bible says. Literally. At least [with Wikipedia] you have the chance to correct the wiki -- Jörgen Sigvardsson
People are just notoriously impossible. --DavidCrow
There's NO excuse for not commenting your code. -- John Simmons / outlaw programmerSaying "Hey this isn't working" isn't really helpful. Having specific complaints and proposed solutions moves things from a gripe session to a brainstorming session.
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Ray Cassick wrote:
I have no problem with a compnay trying to get you in the right mindset before a task.
Me neither. Provided they use plenty of donuts and coffee. Words just don't do much for my blood sugar, no matter how cheerful they sound...
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Sounds like a waste of time to me. Then again, most daily meeting are.
Ray Cassick wrote:
I guess it is just the mindset of the poeple then.
Exactly. And it sounds like the mindset of these people is that of an adult.
Ray Cassick wrote:
I have no problem with a compnay trying to get you in the right mindset before a task.
Isn't that a part of having defined roles and expectations. These moring cheers sound a lot like company "cake" days. Nothing more than treating the symptons of poor management.
Ray Cassick wrote:
Maybe programmers would have to sit in a room and do a vocal power code review or something.
Not on a daily basis...what an expensive operation that would be.
Hey don't worry, I can handle it. I took something. I can see things no one else can see. Why are you dressed like that? - Jack Burton
Chris Austin wrote:
Nothing more than treating the symptons of poor management.
Bravo! That hits the nail on the head.
Logifusion[^] If not entertaining, write your Congressman.
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Exactly. I am just curious if / why it is regarded differently in Germany. I personally find these social differences very interesting. Then again, if I thought I could make a good living at it I would have studied anthropology in rather than Physics and CS.
Hey don't worry, I can handle it. I took something. I can see things no one else can see. Why are you dressed like that? - Jack Burton
It is not good, but it is your own business. In Germany, a boss or company should not care about a worker's personal affairs. That means, the company must keep its nose out of your private life. ;P
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Ray Cassick wrote:
Why do you sound happy about this?
I was thinking the same thing. Granted, I'm certainly no fan of Wal-Mart (CostCo is where it's at...better quality at lower prices!), why would you actually want to discourage business?
"Everything I listed is intended to eliminate the tyranny of the majority." -Vincent Reynolds on American Democracy
espeir wrote:
discourage business
Nobody discourages business. The shops won't close, Metro will only replace the "Wal*Mart" panels with "real,-" panels.
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Corinna John wrote:
almost everything was tried
Except learning from their competitors?
Learning from ALDI (Germany's biggest, cheapest and most popular discount chain) might have helped. But maybe the managers were too proud american patriots to learn from european success stories...
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I think that is the biggest problem in this instance. They gave themselves no room to learn from their competitors. Their business model seems to be all about squeezing their supply chain and labor. In a strong union area they won't be able to stay out of the red. People can get mad at the unions but it is the way life is some parts of the world. You can adapt or you can get out. It looks like wally chose the latter. Personally, I'd say good riddence.
Hey don't worry, I can handle it. I took something. I can see things no one else can see. Why are you dressed like that? - Jack Burton
ACK. They didn't try to learn from their local competitors. You actually can be successful in Europe, but the rules are different. Love it or leave it: If they don't like the rules of our market, they're free to go home.
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Saying "Hey this isn't working" isn't really helpful. Having specific complaints and proposed solutions moves things from a gripe session to a brainstorming session.
Stuart van Weele wrote:
Saying "Hey this isn't working" isn't really helpful.
And I didn't say. I said that I don't think a free market economy is the best model in a environment where the economies are disparate. That IS a specific issue. Marc
Some people believe what the bible says. Literally. At least [with Wikipedia] you have the chance to correct the wiki -- Jörgen Sigvardsson
People are just notoriously impossible. --DavidCrow
There's NO excuse for not commenting your code. -- John Simmons / outlaw programmer -
Marc Clifton wrote:
After all, the mom & pop shops that had higher prices that went out of business, well, those folks are now poor, and guess where they have to shop?
How how is MS any different? Nobody climbs to the top without stepping on a few heads - it's impossible.
Jeremy Falcon
Jeremy Falcon wrote:
Nobody climbs to the top without stepping on a few heads - it's impossible.
Maybe. But what you do when you're on top also is important. WalMart, all I see them doing is trying to make more and more money. Those ads they have about being community oriented. What a load of BS. Marc
Some people believe what the bible says. Literally. At least [with Wikipedia] you have the chance to correct the wiki -- Jörgen Sigvardsson
People are just notoriously impossible. --DavidCrow
There's NO excuse for not commenting your code. -- John Simmons / outlaw programmer -
Jeremy Falcon wrote:
Nobody climbs to the top without stepping on a few heads - it's impossible.
Maybe. But what you do when you're on top also is important. WalMart, all I see them doing is trying to make more and more money. Those ads they have about being community oriented. What a load of BS. Marc
Some people believe what the bible says. Literally. At least [with Wikipedia] you have the chance to correct the wiki -- Jörgen Sigvardsson
People are just notoriously impossible. --DavidCrow
There's NO excuse for not commenting your code. -- John Simmons / outlaw programmerMarc Clifton wrote:
all I see them doing is trying to make more and more money
Name one (for profit) company in the world that doesn't do this?
Jeremy Falcon
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Here are some good news: No more Mal Mart stores in Germany. Finally, they'll leave us alone! :cool: http://www.union-network.org/UNICommerce.nsf/0/34B5020875B021ADC12571B900362101?OpenDocument "Wal-Mart has thrown in the towel in Germany and will sell its 85 hypermarkets to the Metro Group. The American retailer was never able to run its German operations profitably. From morning cheers to cutting personnel and closing stores, almost everything was tried, but still it did not work. [...] Now the Bentonville managers have seen that walmartization of working life does not work where unions are strong, be it here or in South Korea which the company is also leaving. [...] When the Bentonville multinational tried to establish its American business concept in Germany, things started to go wrong. Shopping patterns were different, as was competition. There were also questions asked about whether the company had really bought the right store network. It was not even enough to subsidise the German operations with money earned through low wages and poor helth insurance in Wal-Mart's main US markets. Allowing the bottom line in Germany to go red by hundreds of millions USD and engaging in brutal price wars in vain attempts to gain market shares, Wal-Mart tried to use its dominant global market position to press its competitors. But Wal-Mart's concept does not travel, Metro Group CEO Hans-Joachim Körber said a few years ago. Today we can see that he was right, when Germany's Wal-Marts now will turn into Real hypermarkets." Good Bye, Wal Mart ... or should I say Good Buy? coco
It's not that I'm unhappy or want to spoil the day for anyone, but I don't think it has much to do with unions, but rather there are to many strong supermarket discounters already available here.
Some of us walk the memory lane, others plummet into a rabbit hole
Tree in C# || Fold With Us! || sighist -
Corinna John wrote:
But Wal-Mart's concept does not travel
I'm not a big fan of walmart, but I don't see what is being celebrated here. Walmart doesn't allow unions in the US for the simple reason that it doesn't work for their business model. They tried running stores in a country with strong unions and failed. That's not a big surprise. Strong unions in america's automobile industry make US car companies turn to contractors instead of hiring full-time workers. I, for one, think unions can very quickly become too powerful and stagnate competition. Maybe you're happy you have strong unions; I wouldn't be.
Because Walmart brings you the best of capitalism free market and general freedom: less jobs that are more sucky, less margins of survival for producers, and fake smiles on the way out. But at least you get it ten cents cheaper. It's not that we don't have enough of this over here. -- modified at 17:16 Friday 28th July, 2006: in jobs and the ABC, B comes before S. And you still make me O sometimes.
Some of us walk the memory lane, others plummet into a rabbit hole
Tree in C# || Fold With Us! || sighist -
ACK. They didn't try to learn from their local competitors. You actually can be successful in Europe, but the rules are different. Love it or leave it: If they don't like the rules of our market, they're free to go home.
Corinna John wrote:
You actually can be successful in Europe
I have no doubt. My uncle built a very successful business in Germany many years ago. Successful enough, that he was able to retire at an early age and put his children and grandchildren through collage. To me this whole matter is not about Germany and her unions but Wal-Marts inflexiable approach.
Hey don't worry, I can handle it. I took something. I can see things no one else can see. Why are you dressed like that? - Jack Burton
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Marc Clifton wrote:
all I see them doing is trying to make more and more money
Name one (for profit) company in the world that doesn't do this?
Jeremy Falcon
Jeremy Falcon wrote:
Name one (for profit) company in the world that doesn't do this?
I can't. But that doesn't mean it's right. Yeah, I know, WTF am I talking about, right? What I mean is, profit and greed are synonymous nowadays. They shouldn't be. Profit and local/global responsibility seem to be mutually exclusive. Again, they shouldn't be. My utopia, yeah, I know. Marc
Some people believe what the bible says. Literally. At least [with Wikipedia] you have the chance to correct the wiki -- Jörgen Sigvardsson
People are just notoriously impossible. --DavidCrow
There's NO excuse for not commenting your code. -- John Simmons / outlaw programmer -
Jeremy Falcon wrote:
Name one (for profit) company in the world that doesn't do this?
I can't. But that doesn't mean it's right. Yeah, I know, WTF am I talking about, right? What I mean is, profit and greed are synonymous nowadays. They shouldn't be. Profit and local/global responsibility seem to be mutually exclusive. Again, they shouldn't be. My utopia, yeah, I know. Marc
Some people believe what the bible says. Literally. At least [with Wikipedia] you have the chance to correct the wiki -- Jörgen Sigvardsson
People are just notoriously impossible. --DavidCrow
There's NO excuse for not commenting your code. -- John Simmons / outlaw programmerMarc Clifton wrote:
What I mean is, profit and greed are synonymous nowadays. They shouldn't be.
And yet you ban Wal-Mart and use Microsoft products everyday.
Jeremy Falcon
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Why do you sound happy about this? Yes, I am not a big fan of Walmart, but neither am I a big fan of Unions. The German people do not want to do morning cheers? Give me a break. This is no different a tactic to raise morale and build a sense of team than a soccer team having a rah rah session before a big game or a boxers coach pumping them up before a big fight. Geeze man... As far as quality and price go, you get what you pay for. I have bought crappy stuff at a walmart and have also bought good stuff there. It all depends on the 'STUFF'. You buy a TV there, as long as you buy a decent brand how can it matter? So the union has flexed it's muscle and forced a company out of a region. Big deal. I doubt that Walmart will go cower into a corner over it. 85 stores to them is a hardly a drop in the bucket. When I worked for Lenscrafters many moons ago we had a go at the euro market and tried to open several stores in the UK and found it impossible. The costs were so friggin high because shippers wanted a mint, all the store managers demanded company cars because 'well that's just how it is bloody done in the UK chap'... I guess the US is just a unique place with a unique mindset. Maybe that is good, maybe that is bad...
The surface joy is of course the Schadenfreude that those greedy "Bow before me 'cause I give you jobs" dungheads turned out to be "Don't know dung" dungheads. Digging a little bit deeper you find this weird (german?) paradox: "Everybody" agrees that Walmart is just bad for german culture, but "everybody" shops there because it's a few cents cheaper. (Either there are two types of "everybody", or psychatrists can collect rent twice) And even though unions enjoy to claim it as their victory, they were just anti-cheering on the side-lines. There's already to much cutthroat competition between discount markets that there's no room left in this segment. Interestingly, the brothers that run the "known to be cheapest" markets here (Aldi), run the rather high-priced "Traders Joe" in the US. (Thank the gods for Trader Joe)
Some of us walk the memory lane, others plummet into a rabbit hole
Tree in C# || Fold With Us! || sighist -
congratulations! i wish we could thin our population a bit - they seem to show up every 10 miles here in the US. i always find Wal*Marts depressing - grubby, full of crappy stuff and annoying people. i refuse to shop there.
Why donchoo take a peekchur mayn? OK, cleeeeek
You can always visit a Wal-Mart to disprove natural selection. ;)
This statement is false.
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Rocky Moore wrote:
gain some decent quality along with treating their employees
As a former employee of Wal-Mart, I can say they treat their employees much better than many other low-end jobs. People should really learn more before they form concrete opinions.
Jeremy Falcon
I doubt that. Did you work in systems? Are we talking about corporate work or retail work. Wal-Mart just threatened to focus only on outlying areas of Chicago instead of the city proper as Chicago passed a law requiring a livable wage be paid. Wal-Mart isn't going for it. So if they can't pay a livable wage to the bulk of their employees, with no health care either to speak of, guess who ends up footing the bill? Taxpayers, as most of these people are also on federal assistance with either Medicaid/Medicare and/or foodstamps. So even if you don't shop at Wal-Mart your still paying for them to do their business.
This statement is false.