Dyslexic Programmers
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One of our team members is dyslexic - or at least was when she was a child - and is definitely one of the most intelligent people I've ever met. I don't know if she still suffers from dyslexia today, but if she does, she manages to overcome it without any external help as she's easily the most valuable member of our team.
Tom Archer (blog) Program Manager - Windows SDK Headers, Libraries & Tools MICROSOFT
as well, our team member is most def valuable.. problems come up in keeping abreast with the changes and consuming the vast amounts of information that become available daily. normal readers can comprehend pages of MSDN, for example, at a glance and know wether it's one for favourites or not to bother reading through it. for dyslexic programmer.. the time spent coming to the same conclusion is drastically more. as a result, we spend more time verbally communicating requirements, bugs, processes, etc.. and in fact have used voice recordings as minutes to a meeting. but it's finding a more structured approach to communicating [and helping him to "gather" information]- and if anyone has had some experience in dealing with this.. that'd be great to know :) part of our dp's issue is that he doesn't really know [or know how to articulate] what does work for him and what not.. so, largely, for us to continue being successful, we need to trial-and-error some strategies, unless there's some advice [like yr team member] who might have some insight as to what is useful? all that been sed, the work he does produce is great.. but at more expense than we sometimes realise...
:: have the courage to use your own reason
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no, it's not a a joke ;) on the dev team we have a programmer who is dyslexic.. so all the conventional material that programmers *need* [msdn; books; blogs; code project articles- etc..], in fact, our entire world is not particularly sensitive to dyslexia... but the dude's a great team member and *can* produce class code- but it takes some time and getting it right takes extra effort... my question is.. has anyone ever worked with dyslexic programmers on the team.. or- are u one yrself? and how do you cope with it? what *other* strategies [a 20page technical spec simply doesn't work] can u use without losing productivity and quality and communication etc... from the team player himself; it's not about pity or sympathy it's just about working with it without jeopardising "normal" production or the team. there's enuff info on kids and dyslexia- but how about coding with dyslexia?
:: have the courage to use your own reason
I am Dyslexic, and me a Mr C++ get on well enough... Once I have managed to learn the correct spellings for the words I am off and away... Programming is so nice in the fact it is a subset of a language, ie few words to learn verses a 'real' langauge like English. Luckly me interest in learning computery stuff has help me get through long (>20pg) documents/books. Some of my friends have even joked that C++ is my first lanaguage and that I am stuggling to learn English when I have to write documents.
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no, it's not a a joke ;) on the dev team we have a programmer who is dyslexic.. so all the conventional material that programmers *need* [msdn; books; blogs; code project articles- etc..], in fact, our entire world is not particularly sensitive to dyslexia... but the dude's a great team member and *can* produce class code- but it takes some time and getting it right takes extra effort... my question is.. has anyone ever worked with dyslexic programmers on the team.. or- are u one yrself? and how do you cope with it? what *other* strategies [a 20page technical spec simply doesn't work] can u use without losing productivity and quality and communication etc... from the team player himself; it's not about pity or sympathy it's just about working with it without jeopardising "normal" production or the team. there's enuff info on kids and dyslexia- but how about coding with dyslexia?
:: have the courage to use your own reason
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hmm... I see. You should read the latest edition of scientific american Volume 17, Number 3, June/July 2006: Mind, page 12. Sometimes slower is faster! What if he makes less mistakes than faster programmer? Im a bit worry of "some" people who say ok, ok, ok I understand straight away. It often turns out they didn't really understand, in fact... Not to say it's the case with your programmers. Just a general comment. ;) :-D
thanks.. i'll get my hands on it. slower is definitely faster :) and u're spont on with yr last comment.. cos... being accurate is also neccessary. and going slower in his case is not about being deliberate.. he can slowly get things wrong [cos the spec, for example he doesn't read accurately]. ontop of that what he reads he understands.. but what he reads might not be what is written- if u know what i mean?
:: have the courage to use your own reason
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I am Dyslexic, and me a Mr C++ get on well enough... Once I have managed to learn the correct spellings for the words I am off and away... Programming is so nice in the fact it is a subset of a language, ie few words to learn verses a 'real' langauge like English. Luckly me interest in learning computery stuff has help me get through long (>20pg) documents/books. Some of my friends have even joked that C++ is my first lanaguage and that I am stuggling to learn English when I have to write documents.
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homegrown wrote:
or- are u one yrself?
Yeah, we've all heard "There's this friend of mine..." stories before.
LOL :D not in this case. my interest in this case is that i'm team lead for our group and he is one of the programmers i am responsible for growing. i've never had to deal with it before so i'm trying to find ways of facilitating his growth. if it means i have to draw more pictures and that helps... great! and if anyone has got experience in this field, i'd love to hear what they've tried... btw: we do use voive recordings and loads of diagrams- very little text. but the primary area where we can impact effectively is if i/we can help him decipher what's important to read and what not [blogs, newsletters, forums, msdn, books, etc...] and then to summarise that information in a way he can grasp- faster and with less frustration than he is experiencing now.... as a team we help each other out, right? and being the only one on the team there's def, i believe, something we can do more for him in this respect... those with the ability have the responsibility someone once sed in a movie quoting a president [i think] :)
:: have the courage to use your own reason
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agreed, results do speak. but our programmer has the same issue.. he wishes he could 'output' more and gets frustrated that he can't express himself as clearly.. and as quickly.. in both conversation, document and code.. we know these things and we're working with him.. but how *could* we help him get past those frustrations so that he can get closer to expressing at the same speed?
:: have the courage to use your own reason
So I wrote a nice long reply and FAJKKJA'ng internet stalls on me. Post lost.... This is the type of thing that makes me fustrated. :mad::mad::mad::mad:
homegrown wrote:
but how *could* we help him get past those frustrations so that he can get closer to expressing at the same speed?
- Keep his tasks clear and unambigous. Avoid multi-tasking the person. - Keep tasks/goals short (1-3 days). - 'Tease' him with the next task while he is busy with current one, this will help him visualize possible solutions, and even get excited about it. This will also help making the new task more familiar and shortening the "where do i start?" phase.
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xacc.ide-0.2.0.50 - now with partial MSBuild support!
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thanks.. i'll get my hands on it. slower is definitely faster :) and u're spont on with yr last comment.. cos... being accurate is also neccessary. and going slower in his case is not about being deliberate.. he can slowly get things wrong [cos the spec, for example he doesn't read accurately]. ontop of that what he reads he understands.. but what he reads might not be what is written- if u know what i mean?
:: have the courage to use your own reason
homegrown wrote:
and u're spont on with yr last comment.. cos...
:laugh:
homegrown wrote:
he can slowly get things wrong
That's a good one! :laugh: By the way, I'm in Australia, so ... you might not get it in America :~ The name of the issue: mmhh ... One big headline on the cover is "The Science of BURNOUT" The particular article I'm referring to: "Age at Work"
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Chris Maunder wrote:
His only issue is he just can't deal with reading long manuals or programming books
A serious suggestion: Ritalin. Get him to talk to his GP.
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xacc.ide-0.2.0.50 - now with partial MSBuild support!
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For dyslexia?! :wtf:
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I had a programmer on the team who was dyslexic. He did a good job despite the fact that he made more mistakes while coding. A good codereview solved that problem.
WM.
What about weapons of mass-construction?code reviews do help. and often and frequently.. and infact, more than once it has helped out other areas in the system cos it forces us to slow things down and consider more deliberately what's going on :) it's just that there's so much "new" information out there that has to be consumed- sifting out the good from the bad and the ugly is easy.. if u can read... not so, if u can't and that slows other things down....
:: have the courage to use your own reason
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:) how do you cope with learning new things ALL the time though? blogs, msdn, code project, books, etc... how do u manage to keep up reading/grasping new ideas everyday?
:: have the courage to use your own reason
Quiet simply... I don't... I just try and pick what I think would be useful and follow that for awhile... I do most of my learning of new stuff by reading sample code and x-ref with MSDN or other docs like RFCs. I find that I have to be able to make the whole concept as abstract as possible for me to understand it... solid examples are good but often I find them too limiting in a way.
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homegrown wrote:
and u're spont on with yr last comment.. cos...
:laugh:
homegrown wrote:
he can slowly get things wrong
That's a good one! :laugh: By the way, I'm in Australia, so ... you might not get it in America :~ The name of the issue: mmhh ... One big headline on the cover is "The Science of BURNOUT" The particular article I'm referring to: "Age at Work"
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LOL :D not in this case. my interest in this case is that i'm team lead for our group and he is one of the programmers i am responsible for growing. i've never had to deal with it before so i'm trying to find ways of facilitating his growth. if it means i have to draw more pictures and that helps... great! and if anyone has got experience in this field, i'd love to hear what they've tried... btw: we do use voive recordings and loads of diagrams- very little text. but the primary area where we can impact effectively is if i/we can help him decipher what's important to read and what not [blogs, newsletters, forums, msdn, books, etc...] and then to summarise that information in a way he can grasp- faster and with less frustration than he is experiencing now.... as a team we help each other out, right? and being the only one on the team there's def, i believe, something we can do more for him in this respect... those with the ability have the responsibility someone once sed in a movie quoting a president [i think] :)
:: have the courage to use your own reason
I personally would try and avoid going overboard with it all... other wise you start getting into 'special' meetings and the like, where you end up treating the poor guy like some freak. When in fact he is no more of a freak then someone who has black hair instead of brown. By all means do try and help but don't go overboard unless asked too. /me is bitter from personal exercise of being in the 'special' groups at school and college.
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So I wrote a nice long reply and FAJKKJA'ng internet stalls on me. Post lost.... This is the type of thing that makes me fustrated. :mad::mad::mad::mad:
homegrown wrote:
but how *could* we help him get past those frustrations so that he can get closer to expressing at the same speed?
- Keep his tasks clear and unambigous. Avoid multi-tasking the person. - Keep tasks/goals short (1-3 days). - 'Tease' him with the next task while he is busy with current one, this will help him visualize possible solutions, and even get excited about it. This will also help making the new task more familiar and shortening the "where do i start?" phase.
**
xacc.ide-0.2.0.50 - now with partial MSBuild support!
**
perfect. thanks!
leppie wrote:
Avoid multi-tasking the person
ja. i do it so easily and even without coffee, but u're right. doing this [in hindsight] has not been the best move... i'm not sure about the last one though.. but i guess as long i don't cross into the multi-task zone and distractions and manage the teasing effectively...
:: have the courage to use your own reason
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Quiet simply... I don't... I just try and pick what I think would be useful and follow that for awhile... I do most of my learning of new stuff by reading sample code and x-ref with MSDN or other docs like RFCs. I find that I have to be able to make the whole concept as abstract as possible for me to understand it... solid examples are good but often I find them too limiting in a way.
Justin Cobb wrote:
I find that I have to be able to make the whole concept as abstract as possible for me to understand it... solid examples are good but often I find them too limiting in a way.
too limiting... ? how so?
:: have the courage to use your own reason
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I personally would try and avoid going overboard with it all... other wise you start getting into 'special' meetings and the like, where you end up treating the poor guy like some freak. When in fact he is no more of a freak then someone who has black hair instead of brown. By all means do try and help but don't go overboard unless asked too. /me is bitter from personal exercise of being in the 'special' groups at school and college.
agreed totally.. and all this is really in response to us agreeing that if we can use things to help *everyone*.. then we do it. and likewise, there are some hangups from 'special' groups which we both [all three of us now :)] agree which leave emotional baggage best left where it was abandoned. and it's not about pity or sympath or excuses or special consideration.. it's about finding out if there's a better way for all of us to communicate [within our team] so that we can continue deliver with the same track record we have to date [in 2 years, we have missed only one deadline by 1 day!] but with less frustration and more expediency-> and that's from him as well as myself...
:: have the courage to use your own reason
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Allctauy, trhee wree smoe aleticrs a wlhie bcak aoubt how we dno't pay aentieotn to the ltetres in the mdidle of the wrod but can sitll ustarednnd the stencene.
Logifusion[^] If not entertaining, write your Congressman.
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agreed totally.. and all this is really in response to us agreeing that if we can use things to help *everyone*.. then we do it. and likewise, there are some hangups from 'special' groups which we both [all three of us now :)] agree which leave emotional baggage best left where it was abandoned. and it's not about pity or sympath or excuses or special consideration.. it's about finding out if there's a better way for all of us to communicate [within our team] so that we can continue deliver with the same track record we have to date [in 2 years, we have missed only one deadline by 1 day!] but with less frustration and more expediency-> and that's from him as well as myself...
:: have the courage to use your own reason
Fair enough, it just I was worried that it was a 'How do I interact with this freak?' kinda thing. I stand corrected in fact it is not that, it just a 'Any one know a good way to do...' question.
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Fair enough, it just I was worried that it was a 'How do I interact with this freak?' kinda thing. I stand corrected in fact it is not that, it just a 'Any one know a good way to do...' question.
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Justin Cobb wrote:
I find that I have to be able to make the whole concept as abstract as possible for me to understand it... solid examples are good but often I find them too limiting in a way.
too limiting... ? how so?
:: have the courage to use your own reason
They don't show the "big picture". I struggle with that too - if the concepts behind a sample aren't clear, I have difficulty seeing its relevance most of the time. When that happens I'll skim an article, classify it as "boring" and go looking for something more relevant (and therefore interesting).
Anna :rose: Currently working mostly on: Visual Lint :cool: Anna's Place | Tears and Laughter "Be yourself - not what others think you should be" - Marcia Graesch "Anna's just a sexy-looking lesbian tart" - A friend, trying to wind me up. It didn't work.