Apparently proper english is a bad thing,..
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I was having the brief conversation with one of the guys at work (the infamous "groper" I've mentioned before). I was annoyed because I'd received an email from someone that had a title similar to "Global Director Business Development" and the email contained all sorts of grammar and typo mistakes. Missing punctuation, incorrect capitalization, and so on. My beef was that the email had so many mistakes(it was only a few sentences), and that, IMHO, it just indicates carelessness on the part of the sender. Keep in mind, this was for work - this was professional correspondence, sent by someone fairly high up the corporate food chain, not a note to meet somewhere after work and get trashed at the local watering hole. When I mentioned this to El Gropo, he said, proudly, that he liked e-mails like that - this meant it was typed by a real, live person, as opposed to a letter with perfect punctuation/grammar, which would clearly just indicate that it was a form letter. OK....:doh:
¡El diablo está en mis pantalones! ¡Mire, mire! Real Mentats use only 100% pure, unfooled around with Sapho Juice(tm)! SELECT * FROM User WHERE Clue > 0 0 rows returned Save an Orange - Use the VCF!
I have to agree; poorly crafted emails are not always easy to interpret, usually along the lines of 'eats shoots and leaves'. It's laziness and poor education; no more, no less. oily shit, I sure hopes me gotten the grandma and sin tax write. :laugh:
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emails do not require formal language. It is only with outlook convincing the masses that emails should contain formatted documents that the overwhelming belief in formal emails came to pass. My $400 an hour lawyer send me emails without proper puntuation all the time. And to be honest, I am glad I don't have to pay for the extra time it would take.
A man said to the universe: "Sir I exist!" "However," replied the Universe, "The fact has not created in me A sense of obligation." -- Stephen Crane
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I agree with all the people, change your lawyer. It's a demonstration of respect and professionalism. Even if it takes a little extra time. If they pretend I do a good job, they have to do them first.
Clear and effective communication is what I want in emails. Now the documents he creates, perfect! Which is what I want. I am quite sure I could send him an email and he would be more professional and I would pay for it but why?
A man said to the universe: "Sir I exist!" "However," replied the Universe, "The fact has not created in me A sense of obligation." -- Stephen Crane
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I was having the brief conversation with one of the guys at work (the infamous "groper" I've mentioned before). I was annoyed because I'd received an email from someone that had a title similar to "Global Director Business Development" and the email contained all sorts of grammar and typo mistakes. Missing punctuation, incorrect capitalization, and so on. My beef was that the email had so many mistakes(it was only a few sentences), and that, IMHO, it just indicates carelessness on the part of the sender. Keep in mind, this was for work - this was professional correspondence, sent by someone fairly high up the corporate food chain, not a note to meet somewhere after work and get trashed at the local watering hole. When I mentioned this to El Gropo, he said, proudly, that he liked e-mails like that - this meant it was typed by a real, live person, as opposed to a letter with perfect punctuation/grammar, which would clearly just indicate that it was a form letter. OK....:doh:
¡El diablo está en mis pantalones! ¡Mire, mire! Real Mentats use only 100% pure, unfooled around with Sapho Juice(tm)! SELECT * FROM User WHERE Clue > 0 0 rows returned Save an Orange - Use the VCF!
yeah man, like, all that square stuff - punctuation, grammar, spelling and proper capitalization - it sucks the life out of my beautiful thoughts and pens them into your pre-conceived world of Dos and Don'ts. and when that happens, i'm nothing more than a cog in your soul-crushing money machine. well, i'm not gonna bow down to The Man, and neither should you! free yourself of pig-minded, fence-worship and let your freaky fat fingers fly! turn-on, tune-out, type-o.
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yeah man, like, all that square stuff - punctuation, grammar, spelling and proper capitalization - it sucks the life out of my beautiful thoughts and pens them into your pre-conceived world of Dos and Don'ts. and when that happens, i'm nothing more than a cog in your soul-crushing money machine. well, i'm not gonna bow down to The Man, and neither should you! free yourself of pig-minded, fence-worship and let your freaky fat fingers fly! turn-on, tune-out, type-o.
Excellent! Rock on dude - live the dream! :)
¡El diablo está en mis pantalones! ¡Mire, mire! Real Mentats use only 100% pure, unfooled around with Sapho Juice(tm)! SELECT * FROM User WHERE Clue > 0 0 rows returned Save an Orange - Use the VCF!
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I was having the brief conversation with one of the guys at work (the infamous "groper" I've mentioned before). I was annoyed because I'd received an email from someone that had a title similar to "Global Director Business Development" and the email contained all sorts of grammar and typo mistakes. Missing punctuation, incorrect capitalization, and so on. My beef was that the email had so many mistakes(it was only a few sentences), and that, IMHO, it just indicates carelessness on the part of the sender. Keep in mind, this was for work - this was professional correspondence, sent by someone fairly high up the corporate food chain, not a note to meet somewhere after work and get trashed at the local watering hole. When I mentioned this to El Gropo, he said, proudly, that he liked e-mails like that - this meant it was typed by a real, live person, as opposed to a letter with perfect punctuation/grammar, which would clearly just indicate that it was a form letter. OK....:doh:
¡El diablo está en mis pantalones! ¡Mire, mire! Real Mentats use only 100% pure, unfooled around with Sapho Juice(tm)! SELECT * FROM User WHERE Clue > 0 0 rows returned Save an Orange - Use the VCF!
I take it that you're not into linguistic relativism? ;P I've received short messages from upperlings that require me to apply 100% focus for a considerable amount of time just to decipher, what I assume to be, the intended meaning. Of course, I'm almost always wrong anyways! :laugh:
:josh: My WPF Blog[^]
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emails do not require formal language. It is only with outlook convincing the masses that emails should contain formatted documents that the overwhelming belief in formal emails came to pass. My $400 an hour lawyer send me emails without proper puntuation all the time. And to be honest, I am glad I don't have to pay for the extra time it would take.
A man said to the universe: "Sir I exist!" "However," replied the Universe, "The fact has not created in me A sense of obligation." -- Stephen Crane
Ennis Ray Lynch, Jr. wrote:
emails do not require formal language
He's not talking formal language. He's talking correct spelling, grammar and punctuation. At least making an attempt at this is non-negotiable as far as I'm concerned.
cheers, Chris Maunder
CodeProject.com : C++ MVP
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I take it that you're not into linguistic relativism? ;P I've received short messages from upperlings that require me to apply 100% focus for a considerable amount of time just to decipher, what I assume to be, the intended meaning. Of course, I'm almost always wrong anyways! :laugh:
:josh: My WPF Blog[^]
Josh Smith wrote:
I take it that you're not into linguistic relativism?
No. :) I would be more forgiving if it was from a co-worker. But this was from somone at a different company!
¡El diablo está en mis pantalones! ¡Mire, mire! Real Mentats use only 100% pure, unfooled around with Sapho Juice(tm)! SELECT * FROM User WHERE Clue > 0 0 rows returned Save an Orange - Use the VCF!
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I was having the brief conversation with one of the guys at work (the infamous "groper" I've mentioned before). I was annoyed because I'd received an email from someone that had a title similar to "Global Director Business Development" and the email contained all sorts of grammar and typo mistakes. Missing punctuation, incorrect capitalization, and so on. My beef was that the email had so many mistakes(it was only a few sentences), and that, IMHO, it just indicates carelessness on the part of the sender. Keep in mind, this was for work - this was professional correspondence, sent by someone fairly high up the corporate food chain, not a note to meet somewhere after work and get trashed at the local watering hole. When I mentioned this to El Gropo, he said, proudly, that he liked e-mails like that - this meant it was typed by a real, live person, as opposed to a letter with perfect punctuation/grammar, which would clearly just indicate that it was a form letter. OK....:doh:
¡El diablo está en mis pantalones! ¡Mire, mire! Real Mentats use only 100% pure, unfooled around with Sapho Juice(tm)! SELECT * FROM User WHERE Clue > 0 0 rows returned Save an Orange - Use the VCF!
I totally agree. A couple of days ago I was browsing an Italian forum where there was this guy that wanted to open a discussion in English, just to improve its knowledge of the language. Well, the message he wrote was full of abbreviations and typos. In Italian, of course. I couldn't resist, I insulted him (I told him he was an idiot and to learn Italian before English). I have been banned for one month. :-D I understand that a forum is not a business email, but I really hate abbreviations like xke (means perchè, why in English) or cmq (means comunque, however in English).
_____________________________________________ Tozzi is right: Gaia is getting rid of us. My Blog [ITA] - Developing ScrewTurn Wiki 1.0 RC
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I was having the brief conversation with one of the guys at work (the infamous "groper" I've mentioned before). I was annoyed because I'd received an email from someone that had a title similar to "Global Director Business Development" and the email contained all sorts of grammar and typo mistakes. Missing punctuation, incorrect capitalization, and so on. My beef was that the email had so many mistakes(it was only a few sentences), and that, IMHO, it just indicates carelessness on the part of the sender. Keep in mind, this was for work - this was professional correspondence, sent by someone fairly high up the corporate food chain, not a note to meet somewhere after work and get trashed at the local watering hole. When I mentioned this to El Gropo, he said, proudly, that he liked e-mails like that - this meant it was typed by a real, live person, as opposed to a letter with perfect punctuation/grammar, which would clearly just indicate that it was a form letter. OK....:doh:
¡El diablo está en mis pantalones! ¡Mire, mire! Real Mentats use only 100% pure, unfooled around with Sapho Juice(tm)! SELECT * FROM User WHERE Clue > 0 0 rows returned Save an Orange - Use the VCF!
Jim Crafton wrote:
When I mentioned this to El Gropo, he said, proudly, that he liked e-mails like that...
People tend to reflect that which they tolerate. I try my best to have top-notch grammar no matter who the recipient. I just feel better that way.
"Money talks. When my money starts to talk, I get a bill to shut it up." - Frank
"Judge not by the eye but by the heart." - Native American Proverb
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I was having the brief conversation with one of the guys at work (the infamous "groper" I've mentioned before). I was annoyed because I'd received an email from someone that had a title similar to "Global Director Business Development" and the email contained all sorts of grammar and typo mistakes. Missing punctuation, incorrect capitalization, and so on. My beef was that the email had so many mistakes(it was only a few sentences), and that, IMHO, it just indicates carelessness on the part of the sender. Keep in mind, this was for work - this was professional correspondence, sent by someone fairly high up the corporate food chain, not a note to meet somewhere after work and get trashed at the local watering hole. When I mentioned this to El Gropo, he said, proudly, that he liked e-mails like that - this meant it was typed by a real, live person, as opposed to a letter with perfect punctuation/grammar, which would clearly just indicate that it was a form letter. OK....:doh:
¡El diablo está en mis pantalones! ¡Mire, mire! Real Mentats use only 100% pure, unfooled around with Sapho Juice(tm)! SELECT * FROM User WHERE Clue > 0 0 rows returned Save an Orange - Use the VCF!
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I was having the brief conversation with one of the guys at work (the infamous "groper" I've mentioned before). I was annoyed because I'd received an email from someone that had a title similar to "Global Director Business Development" and the email contained all sorts of grammar and typo mistakes. Missing punctuation, incorrect capitalization, and so on. My beef was that the email had so many mistakes(it was only a few sentences), and that, IMHO, it just indicates carelessness on the part of the sender. Keep in mind, this was for work - this was professional correspondence, sent by someone fairly high up the corporate food chain, not a note to meet somewhere after work and get trashed at the local watering hole. When I mentioned this to El Gropo, he said, proudly, that he liked e-mails like that - this meant it was typed by a real, live person, as opposed to a letter with perfect punctuation/grammar, which would clearly just indicate that it was a form letter. OK....:doh:
¡El diablo está en mis pantalones! ¡Mire, mire! Real Mentats use only 100% pure, unfooled around with Sapho Juice(tm)! SELECT * FROM User WHERE Clue > 0 0 rows returned Save an Orange - Use the VCF!
Yet another example of: Not only are the barbarians at the gates, but now they're the ones holding the keys. :( :sigh:
Software Zen:
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emails do not require formal language. It is only with outlook convincing the masses that emails should contain formatted documents that the overwhelming belief in formal emails came to pass. My $400 an hour lawyer send me emails without proper puntuation all the time. And to be honest, I am glad I don't have to pay for the extra time it would take.
A man said to the universe: "Sir I exist!" "However," replied the Universe, "The fact has not created in me A sense of obligation." -- Stephen Crane
Ennis Ray Lynch, Jr. wrote:
My $400 an hour lawyer send me emails without proper puntuation all the time. And to be honest, I am glad I don't have to pay for the extra time it would take
My $100 an hour lawyer wrote as good of email and spoken content as she did documents, as did her two legal assistants at $50, and her secretary at $30 an hour. My ex wife's lawyer at $400 an hour was more like yours (inverse quality to wage?), guess who won? Get a new lawyer. You are actually glad he doesn't produce clear and concise communication? :wtf: Do you pay him to take his grammer correction software into the courtroom?
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
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fat_boy wrote:
consistent stupidity should be ridiculed as loudly as possible.
Although I agree, ridiculing someone "high up on the Corporate food chain" can be career limiting...
Have an intern-on-the-way-out point it out to someone higher in the pecking order :)
We are a big screwed up dysfunctional psychotic happy family - some more screwed up, others more happy, but everybody's psychotic joint venture definition of CP
Tree in C# || Fold With Us! || sighist -
emails do not require formal language. It is only with outlook convincing the masses that emails should contain formatted documents that the overwhelming belief in formal emails came to pass. My $400 an hour lawyer send me emails without proper puntuation all the time. And to be honest, I am glad I don't have to pay for the extra time it would take.
A man said to the universe: "Sir I exist!" "However," replied the Universe, "The fact has not created in me A sense of obligation." -- Stephen Crane
Maybe not but in a professional setting an email should have reasonable structure and should atleast be free of spelling errors. If a person can't even send a decent email, I would certainly wonder about them in general.
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emails do not require formal language. It is only with outlook convincing the masses that emails should contain formatted documents that the overwhelming belief in formal emails came to pass. My $400 an hour lawyer send me emails without proper puntuation all the time. And to be honest, I am glad I don't have to pay for the extra time it would take.
A man said to the universe: "Sir I exist!" "However," replied the Universe, "The fact has not created in me A sense of obligation." -- Stephen Crane
Judging by most of the replies I'm guessing none of those others has had the joy of an expensive lawyer before. I agree with you entirely. We've had to deal with trademark laywers, license lawyers etc etc and to be honest I don't even want them to phone me unless it's life or death. A quick phone call can easily cost a couple hundred for what could have been conveyed in a brief email badly punctuated or not. The other repliers probably don't realize how much fairly small talk goes on between a lawyer and a client, I don't mean chit chat, but stuff that absolutely isn't legalese just questions and answers about minor details. When it comes down to the important bits like contracts and trademark apps. and license agreements they always seem to come out of a template for the most part with lot's of screening by underlings who *are* paid to punctuate correctly, not the same thing at all.
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Judging by most of the replies I'm guessing none of those others has had the joy of an expensive lawyer before. I agree with you entirely. We've had to deal with trademark laywers, license lawyers etc etc and to be honest I don't even want them to phone me unless it's life or death. A quick phone call can easily cost a couple hundred for what could have been conveyed in a brief email badly punctuated or not. The other repliers probably don't realize how much fairly small talk goes on between a lawyer and a client, I don't mean chit chat, but stuff that absolutely isn't legalese just questions and answers about minor details. When it comes down to the important bits like contracts and trademark apps. and license agreements they always seem to come out of a template for the most part with lot's of screening by underlings who *are* paid to punctuate correctly, not the same thing at all.
I was starting to think I was insane :) Of course, I can be both. To be perfectly honest, me experience with my current lawyer is always buy the best one you can afford. They are worth it.
A man said to the universe: "Sir I exist!" "However," replied the Universe, "The fact has not created in me A sense of obligation." -- Stephen Crane
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I was starting to think I was insane :) Of course, I can be both. To be perfectly honest, me experience with my current lawyer is always buy the best one you can afford. They are worth it.
A man said to the universe: "Sir I exist!" "However," replied the Universe, "The fact has not created in me A sense of obligation." -- Stephen Crane