USA - extremist haters
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dennisd45 wrote:
Respond to this post. I wish to see this subject line again.
OK.
dennisd45 wrote:
espeir says "Joseph McCarthy was a great man who deserved to be President! Long live Joe McCarthy, long live McCarthyism!"
I never said he was a great man. I said he was a self-serving politician and was harmless. You (and every other leftist) makes a big deal about some guy pointing out Communists ONLY because you are sympathetic to communism. No other reason. Personally, I think McCarthy was a jerk, but there's no shortage of those in the world. So who cares? Answer: Communists. Did you see the new quote I added to my sig?
"I curse economic prosperity as it puts an end to much-needed poverty, famine and pestilence." -dennisd45 "I fully support Communists in key positions of our government. I believe that they contribute positively to the liberal ideal." -dennisd45
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Vincent Reynolds wrote:
So the right is finally driving the left to join them in their abandon of civil discourse
Huh? How is the right "forcing" the left to do anything? In my experience this kind of vitriolic discourse that Mr Davis laments has been going on for more than 25 years, and was started by the left and got into fever pitch when the left lost power in Congress in the 80s. It's been my sad experience that whenever I use logic to pick apart someone's arguments or when I demand that someone support their argument with facts and logic they attack me and raise their voice and use emotion to try to win the argument, rather than using logic. I just had that experience with someone in my family. I see a lot of it on both sides of the political spectrum, but far more on the left than on the right. The left is just in denial.
Silence is the voice of complicity. Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government. -- monty python Might I suggest that the universe was always the size of the cosmos. It is just that at one point the cosmos was the size of a marble. -- Colin Angus Mackay
ahz wrote:
Huh? How is the right "forcing" the left to do anything? In my experience this kind of vitriolic discourse that Mr Davis laments has been going on for more than 25 years, and was started by the left and got into fever pitch when the left lost power in Congress in the 80s.
I think your memory is a bit off. You can accuse the Democrats of not stating their position clearly -- or even of not having one in the first place -- but don't even try to claim that the party of Rush, Ann Coulter, O'Reilly, Fox News, Reagan, and that son of a Bush, hasn't had the vitriolic rhetoric market absolutely cornered for years now. It actually started with Reagan and his rants against liberals and liberalism; he and his press people are the ones who demonized a word that Jefferson wore proudly, purely as a marketing ploy to kick the legs out from under the Democratic party. The Democratic party, and liberals who do not want to be associated with the Democrats, have been slow to the fight, and reluctant to stoop to that level; but now, for bad or good, desperation is displacing that reluctance, and some are determined to fight the Republicans on their own ground, with their own weapons.
ahz wrote:
It's been my sad experience that whenever I use logic to pick apart someone's arguments or when I demand that someone support their argument with facts and logic they attack me and raise their voice and use emotion to try to win the argument, rather than using logic. I just had that experience with someone in my family. I see a lot of it on both sides of the political spectrum, but far more on the left than on the right. The left is just in denial.
Neither side has had a monopoly on civility and rational thought, but I think it's safe to say that most people have experienced the exact opposite. In both my public observation and my personal experience, I've found the right will resort to shouting, appealing to emotion (including religious appeals), substituting sophistry for logic (espeir), and indulging in gratuitous personal insult and character assassination long before the left. How many vitriolic right-wing talk radio stations/hosts are there? How many left-wing? Consider why this is the case.
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espeir wrote:
Did you see the new quote I added to my sig?
Sure, I'm glad to see I've gotten to you.:):-D
No eternal reward will forgive us now for wasting the dawn. - Jim Morrison
dennisd45 wrote:
Sure, I'm glad to see I've gotten to you.
When was that, pinko!
"I curse economic prosperity as it puts an end to much-needed poverty, famine and pestilence." -dennisd45 "I fully support Communists in key positions of our government. I believe that they contribute positively to the liberal ideal." -dennisd45
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dennisd45 wrote:
Respond to this post. I wish to see this subject line again.
OK.
dennisd45 wrote:
espeir says "Joseph McCarthy was a great man who deserved to be President! Long live Joe McCarthy, long live McCarthyism!"
I never said he was a great man. I said he was a self-serving politician and was harmless. You (and every other leftist) makes a big deal about some guy pointing out Communists ONLY because you are sympathetic to communism. No other reason. Personally, I think McCarthy was a jerk, but there's no shortage of those in the world. So who cares? Answer: Communists. Did you see the new quote I added to my sig?
"I curse economic prosperity as it puts an end to much-needed poverty, famine and pestilence." -dennisd45 "I fully support Communists in key positions of our government. I believe that they contribute positively to the liberal ideal." -dennisd45
espeir wrote:
some guy pointing out Communists
:laugh:
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Vincent Reynolds wrote:
Did they? I thought they just trampled rights, ignored the law, and ruined careers by getting people blacklisted, with basically nothing to show for it. I suppose it was worth it to be able to publically grill dangerous communist sympathizers like Charlie Chaplin, Paul Robeson, Arthur Miller, and Aaron Copeland.
So are you saying that you support Communists? What do you think about Nazis?
"I curse economic prosperity as it puts an end to much-needed poverty, famine and pestilence." -dennisd45
espeir wrote:
So are you saying that you support Communists? What do you think about Nazis?
So are you saying that everyone who was dragged in front of McCarthy and his goons was a Communist? And what the hell does "support Communists" mean? And why are you asking about Nazis, now? Are you a Nazi, and you want to know if I approve? Are you a complete idiot? (That last question was rhetorical.)
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espeir wrote:
So are you saying that you support Communists? What do you think about Nazis?
So are you saying that everyone who was dragged in front of McCarthy and his goons was a Communist? And what the hell does "support Communists" mean? And why are you asking about Nazis, now? Are you a Nazi, and you want to know if I approve? Are you a complete idiot? (That last question was rhetorical.)
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espeir wrote:
So are you saying that you support Communists? What do you think about Nazis?
So are you saying that everyone who was dragged in front of McCarthy and his goons was a Communist? And what the hell does "support Communists" mean? And why are you asking about Nazis, now? Are you a Nazi, and you want to know if I approve? Are you a complete idiot? (That last question was rhetorical.)
Vincent Reynolds wrote:
Are you a complete idiot? (That last question was rhetorical.
He's a leftist in disguise. While he sits in his armchair and pretends to be on the right, in actuality he is a leftist. He sympathizes with extremists you know.
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Vincent Reynolds wrote:
Are you a complete idiot? (That last question was rhetorical.
He's a leftist in disguise. While he sits in his armchair and pretends to be on the right, in actuality he is a leftist. He sympathizes with extremists you know.
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He is definitely an extremist.:)
No eternal reward will forgive us now for wasting the dawn. - Jim Morrison
dennisd45 wrote:
He is definitely an extremist.
But in a good way.
This post is provided "as is" without warranty of any kind, either expressed or implied.
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Vincent Reynolds wrote:
What's your point?
my point is that the article was from a committed hard core Democrat criticizing the radical left wing of his own party.
Mike Dear NYT - the fact is, the founding fathers hung traitors. dennisd45 wrote: My view of the world is slightly more nuanced
As always - that B do it too doesn't make it better for A.
We are a big screwed up dysfunctional psychotic happy family - some more screwed up, others more happy, but everybody's psychotic joint venture definition of CP
Tree in C# || Fold With Us! || sighist -
Vincent Reynolds wrote:
Did they? I thought they just trampled rights, ignored the law, and ruined careers by getting people blacklisted, with basically nothing to show for it. I suppose it was worth it to be able to publically grill dangerous communist sympathizers like Charlie Chaplin, Paul Robeson, Arthur Miller, and Aaron Copeland.
So are you saying that you support Communists? What do you think about Nazis?
"I curse economic prosperity as it puts an end to much-needed poverty, famine and pestilence." -dennisd45
What the hell.. :wtf: You deserve some kind of award.
-- In Hypno-Vision
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espeir wrote:
So are you saying that you support Communists? What do you think about Nazis?
So are you saying that everyone who was dragged in front of McCarthy and his goons was a Communist? And what the hell does "support Communists" mean? And why are you asking about Nazis, now? Are you a Nazi, and you want to know if I approve? Are you a complete idiot? (That last question was rhetorical.)
Vincent Reynolds wrote:
So are you saying that everyone who was dragged in front of McCarthy and his goons was a Communist?
Are you saying that everyone who is dragged into court is guilty?
Vincent Reynolds wrote:
And why are you asking about Nazis, now? Are you a Nazi, and you want to know if I approve? Are you a complete idiot? (That last question was rhetorical.)
McCarthyism was historically insignificant. It's significant to liberals like you for one reason...You support Communist ideals. I mention Naziism because if McCarthyism had targetted a party you do not agree with, you would not care so deeply.
"I curse economic prosperity as it puts an end to much-needed poverty, famine and pestilence." -dennisd45 "I fully support Communists in key positions of our government. I believe that they contribute positively to the liberal ideal." -dennisd45
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ahz wrote:
Huh? How is the right "forcing" the left to do anything? In my experience this kind of vitriolic discourse that Mr Davis laments has been going on for more than 25 years, and was started by the left and got into fever pitch when the left lost power in Congress in the 80s.
I think your memory is a bit off. You can accuse the Democrats of not stating their position clearly -- or even of not having one in the first place -- but don't even try to claim that the party of Rush, Ann Coulter, O'Reilly, Fox News, Reagan, and that son of a Bush, hasn't had the vitriolic rhetoric market absolutely cornered for years now. It actually started with Reagan and his rants against liberals and liberalism; he and his press people are the ones who demonized a word that Jefferson wore proudly, purely as a marketing ploy to kick the legs out from under the Democratic party. The Democratic party, and liberals who do not want to be associated with the Democrats, have been slow to the fight, and reluctant to stoop to that level; but now, for bad or good, desperation is displacing that reluctance, and some are determined to fight the Republicans on their own ground, with their own weapons.
ahz wrote:
It's been my sad experience that whenever I use logic to pick apart someone's arguments or when I demand that someone support their argument with facts and logic they attack me and raise their voice and use emotion to try to win the argument, rather than using logic. I just had that experience with someone in my family. I see a lot of it on both sides of the political spectrum, but far more on the left than on the right. The left is just in denial.
Neither side has had a monopoly on civility and rational thought, but I think it's safe to say that most people have experienced the exact opposite. In both my public observation and my personal experience, I've found the right will resort to shouting, appealing to emotion (including religious appeals), substituting sophistry for logic (espeir), and indulging in gratuitous personal insult and character assassination long before the left. How many vitriolic right-wing talk radio stations/hosts are there? How many left-wing? Consider why this is the case.
Vincent Reynolds wrote:
I think your memory is a bit off.
hmm. if feel a bit like a witness to an automobile accident. we've both witnessed the same thing, but have a different tale to tell. either way, I'll agree with your point that the republicans have gotten pretty nasty in the last few years...
Vincent Reynolds wrote:
both my public observation and my personal experience
again, I wonder how much this is due to whom we choose to talk to and to whom we choose to listen to and to watch? I have seen the same from all sides, but far more often and vitriolic from the left.
Vincent Reynolds wrote:
How many vitriolic right-wing talk radio stations/hosts are there? How many left-wing? Consider why this is the case.
CBS, ABC, NBC, NPR, Air America, NY Times, Chicago Sun, LA Times, etc, have all been bastions of liberal ideology for decades (except Air America, it's less than 2 years old). Literally hundreds of liberal outlets. Rush and co have been around for less than 10 years, far fewer in number than the liberal mass media. From my view and count, the liberals have had (and still have) control of the stage.
Vincent Reynolds wrote:
Consider why this is the case.
Yes, indeed.
Silence is the voice of complicity. Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government. -- monty python Might I suggest that the universe was always the size of the cosmos. It is just that at one point the cosmos was the size of a marble. -- Colin Angus Mackay
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Vincent Reynolds wrote:
So are you saying that everyone who was dragged in front of McCarthy and his goons was a Communist?
Are you saying that everyone who is dragged into court is guilty?
Vincent Reynolds wrote:
And why are you asking about Nazis, now? Are you a Nazi, and you want to know if I approve? Are you a complete idiot? (That last question was rhetorical.)
McCarthyism was historically insignificant. It's significant to liberals like you for one reason...You support Communist ideals. I mention Naziism because if McCarthyism had targetted a party you do not agree with, you would not care so deeply.
"I curse economic prosperity as it puts an end to much-needed poverty, famine and pestilence." -dennisd45 "I fully support Communists in key positions of our government. I believe that they contribute positively to the liberal ideal." -dennisd45
espeir wrote:
McCarthyism had targetted a party you do not agree with, you would not care so deeply
uh, your logic is faulty here. Perhaps he disagrees with McCarthyism because it notoriously was based on a raft of lies and grandstanding (such as when McCarthy held up a bunch of (blank) papers and claimed they were a list of known and documented communist spies). Perhaps it's because it ran roughshod over the constitutional rights and liberties gauranteed therein in the name of "Truth and Freedom" based upon a pack of lies. Even it were based upon truth, it was still completely the wrong way to go about things and ended up ruining many peoples lives -- all because some power-hungry megolomaniacal idiot.
Silence is the voice of complicity. Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government. -- monty python Might I suggest that the universe was always the size of the cosmos. It is just that at one point the cosmos was the size of a marble. -- Colin Angus Mackay
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Vincent Reynolds wrote:
I think your memory is a bit off.
hmm. if feel a bit like a witness to an automobile accident. we've both witnessed the same thing, but have a different tale to tell. either way, I'll agree with your point that the republicans have gotten pretty nasty in the last few years...
Vincent Reynolds wrote:
both my public observation and my personal experience
again, I wonder how much this is due to whom we choose to talk to and to whom we choose to listen to and to watch? I have seen the same from all sides, but far more often and vitriolic from the left.
Vincent Reynolds wrote:
How many vitriolic right-wing talk radio stations/hosts are there? How many left-wing? Consider why this is the case.
CBS, ABC, NBC, NPR, Air America, NY Times, Chicago Sun, LA Times, etc, have all been bastions of liberal ideology for decades (except Air America, it's less than 2 years old). Literally hundreds of liberal outlets. Rush and co have been around for less than 10 years, far fewer in number than the liberal mass media. From my view and count, the liberals have had (and still have) control of the stage.
Vincent Reynolds wrote:
Consider why this is the case.
Yes, indeed.
Silence is the voice of complicity. Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government. -- monty python Might I suggest that the universe was always the size of the cosmos. It is just that at one point the cosmos was the size of a marble. -- Colin Angus Mackay
ahz wrote:
CBS, ABC, NBC, NPR, Air America, NY Times, Chicago Sun, LA Times, etc, have all been bastions of liberal ideology for decades (except Air America, it's less than 2 years old). Literally hundreds of liberal outlets. Rush and co have been around for less than 10 years, far fewer in number than the liberal mass media. From my view and count, the liberals have had (and still have) control of the stage.
The subject was vitriol, not editorial bias. You can argue that the major news outlets lean slightly left, but it's hardly ranting and foaming at the same level as Fox News and the talk radio stations. In fact, the bias is small enough that people actually do argue the point, whereas few would argue that the Fox News "fair and balanced" claim is absurd. Air America is the only one on that keeps up with the right rant-for-rant, and the whole reason for its existence is answering that wall of sound.
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Vincent Reynolds wrote:
So are you saying that everyone who was dragged in front of McCarthy and his goons was a Communist?
Are you saying that everyone who is dragged into court is guilty?
Vincent Reynolds wrote:
And why are you asking about Nazis, now? Are you a Nazi, and you want to know if I approve? Are you a complete idiot? (That last question was rhetorical.)
McCarthyism was historically insignificant. It's significant to liberals like you for one reason...You support Communist ideals. I mention Naziism because if McCarthyism had targetted a party you do not agree with, you would not care so deeply.
"I curse economic prosperity as it puts an end to much-needed poverty, famine and pestilence." -dennisd45 "I fully support Communists in key positions of our government. I believe that they contribute positively to the liberal ideal." -dennisd45
espeir wrote:
McCarthyism was historically insignificant. It's significant to liberals like you for one reason...You support Communist ideals. I mention Naziism because if McCarthyism had targetted a party you do not agree with, you would not care so deeply.
Pretty good example of Godwin's Law.
No eternal reward will forgive us now for wasting the dawn. - Jim Morrison
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dennisd45 wrote:
You must be blind, along with all the rest of your infirmities. Reread my post, the answer is clearly marked.
OK, so then you DON'T think Muslim Extremsists should hold government positions, but you DO believe that Communists should? I rest my case.
dennisd45 wrote:
A troll question. Get serious.
Not at all. You believe that it's OK for Communists to hold key government positions because you're a left-wing extremist and agree with their ideology. However, you believe that Nazis and Muslim Extremists should not hold such positions. I, however, believe that neither should hold key positions because I'm a Republican and a defender of democracy.
dennisd45 wrote:
Your ignorance of history is truly astounding. His victims were not communists. I am finished with this topic. McCarthy was a little monster and the people whose lives he damaged or destroyed were innocent victims, and you are alone in believing that he is some sort of hero.
What are you talking about? His "victims" included such noted Communists as Charlie Chaplin. McCarthy never victimized anybody. They victimized themselves by being Communists.
dennisd45 wrote:
Your ignorance of history is astounding - again. Yes, they gave up power.
Yeah, I know...Just like Castro.
"I curse economic prosperity as it puts an end to much-needed poverty, famine and pestilence." -dennisd45
espeir wrote:
His "victims" included such noted Communists as Charlie Chaplin
Espeir, get your facts right. Charlie Chaplin from his own Autobiography has denied he was a Communists. He states "My prodigious sin was, and still is, being a non-conformist. Although I am not a Communist I refused to fall in line by hating them."
espeir wrote:
McCarthy never victimized anybody
And from Wikipedia, "It's difficult to estimate the number of innocent victims of McCarthyism. In the film industry alone, over 300 actors, writers and directors were denied work in the U.S. through the informal Hollywood blacklist" Presumably Espeir, you would retort "Victimization - what victimization ?"
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espeir wrote:
His "victims" included such noted Communists as Charlie Chaplin
Espeir, get your facts right. Charlie Chaplin from his own Autobiography has denied he was a Communists. He states "My prodigious sin was, and still is, being a non-conformist. Although I am not a Communist I refused to fall in line by hating them."
espeir wrote:
McCarthy never victimized anybody
And from Wikipedia, "It's difficult to estimate the number of innocent victims of McCarthyism. In the film industry alone, over 300 actors, writers and directors were denied work in the U.S. through the informal Hollywood blacklist" Presumably Espeir, you would retort "Victimization - what victimization ?"
Richard A. Abbott wrote:
And from Wikipedia
a reliable source.
Mike Dear NYT - the fact is, the founding fathers hung traitors. dennisd45 wrote: My view of the world is slightly more nuanced
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Richard A. Abbott wrote:
And from Wikipedia
a reliable source.
Mike Dear NYT - the fact is, the founding fathers hung traitors. dennisd45 wrote: My view of the world is slightly more nuanced
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Vincent Reynolds wrote:
So are you saying that everyone who was dragged in front of McCarthy and his goons was a Communist?
Are you saying that everyone who is dragged into court is guilty?
Vincent Reynolds wrote:
And why are you asking about Nazis, now? Are you a Nazi, and you want to know if I approve? Are you a complete idiot? (That last question was rhetorical.)
McCarthyism was historically insignificant. It's significant to liberals like you for one reason...You support Communist ideals. I mention Naziism because if McCarthyism had targetted a party you do not agree with, you would not care so deeply.
"I curse economic prosperity as it puts an end to much-needed poverty, famine and pestilence." -dennisd45 "I fully support Communists in key positions of our government. I believe that they contribute positively to the liberal ideal." -dennisd45
espeir wrote:
Are you saying that everyone who is dragged into court is guilty?
We aren't talking about court. Don't change the subject. And are you saying that only the lives of the guilty were ruined?
espeir wrote:
McCarthyism was historically insignificant.
Wrong. It essentially proved there were communists in our midst to the same degree that the Salem trials proved there were witches in our midst. There weren't, there aren't, there will never be.
espeir wrote:
It's significant to liberals like you
Wrong. It's significant to everyone who wants this country to learn from past mistakes.
espeir wrote:
You support Communist ideals.
Wrong. I do not support communist ideals, and have said so many times. In fact, the idea of individual sovereignty is diametrically opposed to communist ideals. You, on the other hand, by advocating the will of the community over all, are embracing communist ideals.
espeir wrote:
...if McCarthyism had targetted a party you do not agree with, you would not care so deeply.
Wrong. Individual sovereignty, jackass. If you were in this forum for more than monologue, you'd know I believe that a person has the right to believe whatever they want, follow whatever ideals they want, do whatever they want, as long as it does not cause harm to others. If someone wants to be a Nazi, communist, fascist, socialist, whatever-the-f**kist, that's their business. If they want to run for government office as a Nazi, more power to 'em. They wouldn't have a chance in hell of actually being elected -- outside of your neck of the woods, anyway -- but that's their right, and I have no desire to parade anyone in front of a committee representing an ideal so patently un-American as the House Un-American Activities Committee.