Hoo-Ahh!!! Hezbollah
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Not my side, dude. I wouldn't care if they destroyed each other in a gigantic ball of flame. Israel is not the 51st state. Neither is Hezbollah.
Ed Gadziemski wrote:
I wouldn't care if they destroyed each other in a gigantic ball of flame. Israel is not the 51st state. Neither is Hezbollah.
I'm with you on that.
Silence is the voice of complicity. Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government. -- monty python Might I suggest that the universe was always the size of the cosmos. It is just that at one point the cosmos was the size of a marble. -- Colin Angus Mackay
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why not?! better to be light-hearted than tight-assed.
Silence is the voice of complicity. Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government. -- monty python Might I suggest that the universe was always the size of the cosmos. It is just that at one point the cosmos was the size of a marble. -- Colin Angus Mackay
Hot damn, we agree!
Jeremy Falcon
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why not?! better to be light-hearted than tight-assed.
Silence is the voice of complicity. Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government. -- monty python Might I suggest that the universe was always the size of the cosmos. It is just that at one point the cosmos was the size of a marble. -- Colin Angus Mackay
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Permit me to congratulate you on your side winning. I must say the tactic of first attacking Israel, than condeming them for every civilian they inadvertantly kill while trying to clear the area of terrorists firing rockets into their country, and then declaring victory when they submit to international pressure to withdraw, is absolutely brilliant. Magnificent job. You should be proud.
Thank God for disproportional force.
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(Link may require free registration.) As stunned Lebanese returned Tuesday over broken roads to shattered apartments in the south, it increasingly seemed that the beneficiary of the destruction was most likely to be Hezbollah. A major reason — in addition to its hard-won reputation as the only Arab force that fought Israel to a standstill — is that it is already dominating the efforts to rebuild with a torrent of money from oil-rich Iran. ... While the Israelis began their withdrawal, hundreds of Hezbollah members spread over dozens of villages across southern Lebanon began cleaning, organizing and surveying damage. Men on bulldozers were busy cutting lanes through giant piles of rubble. ... In Sreifa, a Hezbollah official said the group would offer an initial $10,000 to residents to help pay for the year of rent, to buy new furniture and to help feed families.[^]
This does raise a point that Hezbollah do address these issues - also Hamas got elected by the palestinians because while Fattah was getting lots of money Hamas was supporting schools and hospitals.
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No, I think they should be remembered as murderous theocratic maniacs. I guess we differ on the kinds of people we would like to live next door to.
Ryan
"Michael Moore and Mel Gibson are the same person, except for a few sit-ups. Moore thought his cheesy political blooper reel was going to tell people how to vote. Mel thought that his little gay SM movie about his imaginary friend was going to help him get to heaven." - Penn Jillette
Ryan Roberts wrote:
I think they should be remembered as murderous theocratic maniacs.
I think that many people on both sides should be remembered that way.
Asynes yw brassa ages kwilkynyow.
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Ryan Roberts wrote:
I think they should be remembered as murderous theocratic maniacs.
I think that many people on both sides should be remembered that way.
Asynes yw brassa ages kwilkynyow.
How delightfully even handed of you. Try reading some hezbollah propaganda material sometime (the stuff for internal consumption, not what they feed to credulous westerners), I assure you there is quite a difference.
Ryan
"Michael Moore and Mel Gibson are the same person, except for a few sit-ups. Moore thought his cheesy political blooper reel was going to tell people how to vote. Mel thought that his little gay SM movie about his imaginary friend was going to help him get to heaven." - Penn Jillette
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How delightfully even handed of you. Try reading some hezbollah propaganda material sometime (the stuff for internal consumption, not what they feed to credulous westerners), I assure you there is quite a difference.
Ryan
"Michael Moore and Mel Gibson are the same person, except for a few sit-ups. Moore thought his cheesy political blooper reel was going to tell people how to vote. Mel thought that his little gay SM movie about his imaginary friend was going to help him get to heaven." - Penn Jillette
Ryan Roberts wrote:
How delightfully even handed of you.
Ta, mate. Anyone who kills anyone in the name of religion is a theocratic maniac. Anyone who feels that the writings of a 1,500 or 3,000-year-old religious text is a valid reason to displace thousands of people and destroy their livelihoods and culture is a theocratic maniac. It doesn't matter which side you're on, relying on a religious text to justify war is mania.
Asynes yw brassa ages kwilkynyow.
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Ryan Roberts wrote:
How delightfully even handed of you.
Ta, mate. Anyone who kills anyone in the name of religion is a theocratic maniac. Anyone who feels that the writings of a 1,500 or 3,000-year-old religious text is a valid reason to displace thousands of people and destroy their livelihoods and culture is a theocratic maniac. It doesn't matter which side you're on, relying on a religious text to justify war is mania.
Asynes yw brassa ages kwilkynyow.
Israel is one of the most secular countries in the world, more Atheists than the UK and most of europe. Hizbollah isn't[^]. Lebanon is a different matter. -- modified at 5:58 Friday 18th August, 2006
Ryan
"Michael Moore and Mel Gibson are the same person, except for a few sit-ups. Moore thought his cheesy political blooper reel was going to tell people how to vote. Mel thought that his little gay SM movie about his imaginary friend was going to help him get to heaven." - Penn Jillette
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Israel is one of the most secular countries in the world, more Atheists than the UK and most of europe. Hizbollah isn't[^]. Lebanon is a different matter. -- modified at 5:58 Friday 18th August, 2006
Ryan
"Michael Moore and Mel Gibson are the same person, except for a few sit-ups. Moore thought his cheesy political blooper reel was going to tell people how to vote. Mel thought that his little gay SM movie about his imaginary friend was going to help him get to heaven." - Penn Jillette
Ryan Roberts wrote:
Israel is one of the most secular countries in the world
Possibly, but the existence of the state of Israel in the 21st Century is down to the 2,000-3,000 year-old religious myths and legends of a tribal people. Similar myths and legends of other tribal peoples across the world are dismissed as being just primitive tales and superstition; yet for some strange reason people put reason and rationality to one side regarding these specific tales, and accept them as fact. Odd thing, the human mind.
Asynes yw brassa ages kwilkynyow.
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Ryan Roberts wrote:
Israel is one of the most secular countries in the world
Possibly, but the existence of the state of Israel in the 21st Century is down to the 2,000-3,000 year-old religious myths and legends of a tribal people. Similar myths and legends of other tribal peoples across the world are dismissed as being just primitive tales and superstition; yet for some strange reason people put reason and rationality to one side regarding these specific tales, and accept them as fact. Odd thing, the human mind.
Asynes yw brassa ages kwilkynyow.
Perhaps, but Israel is not threatening to destroy people around the world if they don't get their way. Powerful forces within Islam are doing precisely that. We entertain their demands and their threats at our own peril. I could give a good goddamn whether Israel survives or not, every thing else being equal. But this is very much a situation where the enemy of my enemy is my friend. We must support Israel if for no other reason than to demonstrate to the Islamic world that we will not be intimidated by their violent insanity, and that we will not predicate our foreign policies out of any conern what so ever for thier religious sensibilities. If they have issues with our policies, let them address those issues in a sane, civilized manner.
Thank God for disproportional force.
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Perhaps, but Israel is not threatening to destroy people around the world if they don't get their way. Powerful forces within Islam are doing precisely that. We entertain their demands and their threats at our own peril. I could give a good goddamn whether Israel survives or not, every thing else being equal. But this is very much a situation where the enemy of my enemy is my friend. We must support Israel if for no other reason than to demonstrate to the Islamic world that we will not be intimidated by their violent insanity, and that we will not predicate our foreign policies out of any conern what so ever for thier religious sensibilities. If they have issues with our policies, let them address those issues in a sane, civilized manner.
Thank God for disproportional force.
Stan Shannon wrote:
We must support Israel if for no other reason than to demonstrate to the Islamic world that we will not be intimidated by their violent insanity, and that we will not predicate our foreign policies out of any conern what so ever for thier religious sensibilities.
But the reason they are currently so pissed off is precisely because "we" (as in, the past governments of our western countries) threw people off their land and showhorned Israel artificially into a place where it was not supposed to be. "We" are therefore the originators of the Middle East conflict and "we" are supporting the country whose creation was the cause of the conflict. "We" in the west are to blame for the Arab-Israeli conflict.
Asynes yw brassa ages kwilkynyow.
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Stan Shannon wrote:
We must support Israel if for no other reason than to demonstrate to the Islamic world that we will not be intimidated by their violent insanity, and that we will not predicate our foreign policies out of any conern what so ever for thier religious sensibilities.
But the reason they are currently so pissed off is precisely because "we" (as in, the past governments of our western countries) threw people off their land and showhorned Israel artificially into a place where it was not supposed to be. "We" are therefore the originators of the Middle East conflict and "we" are supporting the country whose creation was the cause of the conflict. "We" in the west are to blame for the Arab-Israeli conflict.
Asynes yw brassa ages kwilkynyow.
We need to deal with now, perhaps it would have been better if the jewish homeland had been long island, but it isn't. The arab israeli conflict is not the cause of Islamic radicalism, it is simply its current focus. Sacrificing Israel to feed the crocodile will buy us nothing and destroy a nation that contributes much to science, technology and culture.
Ryan
"Michael Moore and Mel Gibson are the same person, except for a few sit-ups. Moore thought his cheesy political blooper reel was going to tell people how to vote. Mel thought that his little gay SM movie about his imaginary friend was going to help him get to heaven." - Penn Jillette
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Stan Shannon wrote:
We must support Israel if for no other reason than to demonstrate to the Islamic world that we will not be intimidated by their violent insanity, and that we will not predicate our foreign policies out of any conern what so ever for thier religious sensibilities.
But the reason they are currently so pissed off is precisely because "we" (as in, the past governments of our western countries) threw people off their land and showhorned Israel artificially into a place where it was not supposed to be. "We" are therefore the originators of the Middle East conflict and "we" are supporting the country whose creation was the cause of the conflict. "We" in the west are to blame for the Arab-Israeli conflict.
Asynes yw brassa ages kwilkynyow.
That is merely a propaganda fed supposition on your part. However, just for the sake of argument, lets suppose that is entirely true, what you are saying is that we must never do anything that the Islamic world does not approve of, or we will face their fanatic wrath. I have always felt that establishing the nation of Israel in the middle east was a very bad ideal, and I have always been sympathetic to the plight of the Palestinians. I have never understood the reasoning behind it. But we did it. They exist. We should defend that decision regardless of how much the Islamic world disapproves of it. And again, if they have problems with that, than let them address those disagreements in a sane, civilized fashion. The very last thing we should do is to give any credence at all to their concerns as long as we are under threat and duress from their looney toon factions.
Thank God for disproportional force.
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That is merely a propaganda fed supposition on your part. However, just for the sake of argument, lets suppose that is entirely true, what you are saying is that we must never do anything that the Islamic world does not approve of, or we will face their fanatic wrath. I have always felt that establishing the nation of Israel in the middle east was a very bad ideal, and I have always been sympathetic to the plight of the Palestinians. I have never understood the reasoning behind it. But we did it. They exist. We should defend that decision regardless of how much the Islamic world disapproves of it. And again, if they have problems with that, than let them address those disagreements in a sane, civilized fashion. The very last thing we should do is to give any credence at all to their concerns as long as we are under threat and duress from their looney toon factions.
Thank God for disproportional force.
Stan Shannon wrote:
However, just for the sake of argument, lets suppose that is entirely true, what you are saying is that we must never do anything that the Islamic world does not approve of, or we will face their fanatic wrath.
Those are your words, not mine. Don't put your words into my mouth, Stan. What I am saying is that most if not all of the artificially-created countries of the 20th century have either fallen apart, have had to be held together by an iron fist, or have caused massive conflicts either amongst its own people or between that country and its neighbours. Israel, Pakistan, Yugoslavia, the USSR... The governments which put those countries together are responsible for their subsequent conflicts. While it would have been nice if everyone had sat round the table holding hands and having a nice civilised chat afterwards, our God-given human nature being what it is, created as we are in God's own image, we kick back when put upon. You seem to think it is OK for Israel and the US to knock six types of brown stuff out of anyone they feel is against them, but it's not OK for anyone to kick back when put upon by the US or Israel.
Asynes yw brassa ages kwilkynyow.
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We need to deal with now, perhaps it would have been better if the jewish homeland had been long island, but it isn't. The arab israeli conflict is not the cause of Islamic radicalism, it is simply its current focus. Sacrificing Israel to feed the crocodile will buy us nothing and destroy a nation that contributes much to science, technology and culture.
Ryan
"Michael Moore and Mel Gibson are the same person, except for a few sit-ups. Moore thought his cheesy political blooper reel was going to tell people how to vote. Mel thought that his little gay SM movie about his imaginary friend was going to help him get to heaven." - Penn Jillette
Who said anything about sacrificing Israel? I was commenting on the flimsy religious "evidence" on which the creation of the state of Israel was based.
Asynes yw brassa ages kwilkynyow.
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Who said anything about sacrificing Israel? I was commenting on the flimsy religious "evidence" on which the creation of the state of Israel was based.
Asynes yw brassa ages kwilkynyow.
The milk and honey stuff, thats not evidence, no. There is plenty of actual historical evidence for Judea being the ancestral Jewish homeland before the romans arrived. It was generaly a client state of one empire or another however, like most of the region.
Ryan
"Michael Moore and Mel Gibson are the same person, except for a few sit-ups. Moore thought his cheesy political blooper reel was going to tell people how to vote. Mel thought that his little gay SM movie about his imaginary friend was going to help him get to heaven." - Penn Jillette
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Stan Shannon wrote:
However, just for the sake of argument, lets suppose that is entirely true, what you are saying is that we must never do anything that the Islamic world does not approve of, or we will face their fanatic wrath.
Those are your words, not mine. Don't put your words into my mouth, Stan. What I am saying is that most if not all of the artificially-created countries of the 20th century have either fallen apart, have had to be held together by an iron fist, or have caused massive conflicts either amongst its own people or between that country and its neighbours. Israel, Pakistan, Yugoslavia, the USSR... The governments which put those countries together are responsible for their subsequent conflicts. While it would have been nice if everyone had sat round the table holding hands and having a nice civilised chat afterwards, our God-given human nature being what it is, created as we are in God's own image, we kick back when put upon. You seem to think it is OK for Israel and the US to knock six types of brown stuff out of anyone they feel is against them, but it's not OK for anyone to kick back when put upon by the US or Israel.
Asynes yw brassa ages kwilkynyow.
Steve_Harris wrote:
artificially-created countries of the 20th century
3 of those you mention were properties of earlier Islamic empires, not nation states, how far back do you want to take the blame?
Ryan
"Michael Moore and Mel Gibson are the same person, except for a few sit-ups. Moore thought his cheesy political blooper reel was going to tell people how to vote. Mel thought that his little gay SM movie about his imaginary friend was going to help him get to heaven." - Penn Jillette
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Stan Shannon wrote:
However, just for the sake of argument, lets suppose that is entirely true, what you are saying is that we must never do anything that the Islamic world does not approve of, or we will face their fanatic wrath.
Those are your words, not mine. Don't put your words into my mouth, Stan. What I am saying is that most if not all of the artificially-created countries of the 20th century have either fallen apart, have had to be held together by an iron fist, or have caused massive conflicts either amongst its own people or between that country and its neighbours. Israel, Pakistan, Yugoslavia, the USSR... The governments which put those countries together are responsible for their subsequent conflicts. While it would have been nice if everyone had sat round the table holding hands and having a nice civilised chat afterwards, our God-given human nature being what it is, created as we are in God's own image, we kick back when put upon. You seem to think it is OK for Israel and the US to knock six types of brown stuff out of anyone they feel is against them, but it's not OK for anyone to kick back when put upon by the US or Israel.
Asynes yw brassa ages kwilkynyow.
Steve_Harris wrote:
Those are your words, not mine.
No, they are your words. If we relent on Israel we are saying that our foreign policy is subject to threat and violence.
Steve_Harris wrote:
our God-given human nature being what it is, created as we are in God's own image, we kick back when put upon
There is no justification for terrorism. There is no cause, no principle, no philsophy which warrents the wholesale slaughter of unsuspecting women and children. If members of the Islamic community wish to give battle on these issues than we should fight them at every availabel opportunity. We are the good guys. They are the bad guys. The issue is no more complex than that.
Thank God for disproportional force.
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Ed Gadziemski wrote:
Do you think Hezbollah should be remembered as the freedom fighters who drove Israel out of Lebanon twice within the past decade?
Um..Israel is still there. And it was hezbollah and their supports who were screaming for a cease fire. Nice revisionism, and in such a short amout of time.
My mom told me once that "while we all don't speak the same language, everyone in the world undestands an asskicking"
kgaddy wrote:
it was hezbollah and their supports who were screaming for a cease fire
Them, and the entire rest of the world.
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