MS Empower ISV - any experiences?
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Hi all, I am currently looking for a good (won't say cheap) way to purchase VS 2006 + MSDN subscription. I think the empower ISV program from Microsoft is a good option, but I am not sure what happens when I don't meet the requirements (e. g. won't finish the software in time). I am also wondering if there are any hidden surprises, because I just can't believe it is so cheap (US $375). Does anyone of you guys have any experience with the program? Thanks Stephan
My employer's been through it. Somehow we managed to re-enroll twice, rather than once, for a total of three years. During that time, well, I'd have to say that we didn't really make a concerted effort to get one product up to the standard required. We're trying to transition from being a contractor to being more of an ISV, but the investment to actually be an ISV isn't there, therefore we (the developers) keep being pulled off the nascent products to work on contract work, to keep paying the bills. I can't now remember what we promised to develop. I think it was one of our dead-end proof-of-delivery handheld applications - my boss is continually trying to break into that market - but could have been our application server, which I'm responsible for. Looking at the 'Certified for Windows Server 2003' requirements[^], we're short in several areas. Interestingly a lot of the common questions I see in the forums are explicitly called out as things not to do (e.g. "How do I create an interactive service?") I'll have to get the boss to check the actual license agreement to ensure that we're OK to continue using the software that came with the MSDN subscriptions. One way to tell I suppose is to ask: could someone whose MSDN subscription has lapsed check if they can still log on to the MSDN Subscriptions site and check their product keys? If they can (we can't) that would be an indication that we're not allowed to keep using it.
Stability. What an interesting concept. -- Chris Maunder
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My employer's been through it. Somehow we managed to re-enroll twice, rather than once, for a total of three years. During that time, well, I'd have to say that we didn't really make a concerted effort to get one product up to the standard required. We're trying to transition from being a contractor to being more of an ISV, but the investment to actually be an ISV isn't there, therefore we (the developers) keep being pulled off the nascent products to work on contract work, to keep paying the bills. I can't now remember what we promised to develop. I think it was one of our dead-end proof-of-delivery handheld applications - my boss is continually trying to break into that market - but could have been our application server, which I'm responsible for. Looking at the 'Certified for Windows Server 2003' requirements[^], we're short in several areas. Interestingly a lot of the common questions I see in the forums are explicitly called out as things not to do (e.g. "How do I create an interactive service?") I'll have to get the boss to check the actual license agreement to ensure that we're OK to continue using the software that came with the MSDN subscriptions. One way to tell I suppose is to ask: could someone whose MSDN subscription has lapsed check if they can still log on to the MSDN Subscriptions site and check their product keys? If they can (we can't) that would be an indication that we're not allowed to keep using it.
Stability. What an interesting concept. -- Chris Maunder
If you can't log in, that's a fair indication that you're not allowed to use the programs, I'd have thought.
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ Metal Musings - Rex and my new metal blog
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Jeremy Falcon wrote:
It says "make a reasonable commercial effort" to do those things, not that's it's required. It's not like MS will come after him with a pitchfork if that stuff doesn't happen.
Probably no pitchforks, but if you want to keep using the software after two years, then I'd say go for a regular MSDN subscription. And then it's all legit (which is a better way to start a business anyway) :)
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Warren D Stevens wrote:
I'd say go for a regular MSDN subscription. And then it's all legit (which is a better way to start a business anyway)
It's also legal to get the Empower ISV program for two years, and after you have earned some money, go and get the regular MSDN. I am currently a Empower ISV subscriber and I am looking forward to buy MSDN when my two years expire. Why spend the money if you can save it legally?
Luis Alonso Ramos Intelectix Chihuahua, Mexico
Not much here: My CP Blog!
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Hi all, I am currently looking for a good (won't say cheap) way to purchase VS 2006 + MSDN subscription. I think the empower ISV program from Microsoft is a good option, but I am not sure what happens when I don't meet the requirements (e. g. won't finish the software in time). I am also wondering if there are any hidden surprises, because I just can't believe it is so cheap (US $375). Does anyone of you guys have any experience with the program? Thanks Stephan
And also check MS Action Pack. It's a yearly subscription for up to ten licenses for almost everything (to use in your day to day work, that is Office for writing letters, not for testing you app, as the MSDN license). And you can renew it for as many years as you want.
Luis Alonso Ramos Intelectix Chihuahua, Mexico
Not much here: My CP Blog!
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If you can't log in, that's a fair indication that you're not allowed to use the programs, I'd have thought.
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ Metal Musings - Rex and my new metal blog
MSDN Subscriptions licences are normally perpetual, but I don't know if that extends to viewing the product keys you were assigned, or getting product keys for products that are on the discs you received, but which you hadn't got keys for before the subscription expired. I'm very glad I printed a copy of the Product Keys page before our programme membership expired, though.
Stability. What an interesting concept. -- Chris Maunder
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Hi all, I am currently looking for a good (won't say cheap) way to purchase VS 2006 + MSDN subscription. I think the empower ISV program from Microsoft is a good option, but I am not sure what happens when I don't meet the requirements (e. g. won't finish the software in time). I am also wondering if there are any hidden surprises, because I just can't believe it is so cheap (US $375). Does anyone of you guys have any experience with the program? Thanks Stephan
How much is the action pack? I can't actually find a price anywhere on the website.
Brian Van Beek Inside this room, all of my dreams become realities, and some of my realities become dreams. -Willy Wonka Read my Blog, I know you want to... [^]
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How much is the action pack? I can't actually find a price anywhere on the website.
Brian Van Beek Inside this room, all of my dreams become realities, and some of my realities become dreams. -Willy Wonka Read my Blog, I know you want to... [^]
It dependes by country, but in my case (Mexico) it was $150 USD plus $140 shipping and handling... for $300 USD a year, it's a great deal!! :-D And the Empower ISV for me was $560 USD per year.
Luis Alonso Ramos Intelectix Chihuahua, Mexico
Not much here: My CP Blog!
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Warren D Stevens wrote:
I'd say go for a regular MSDN subscription. And then it's all legit (which is a better way to start a business anyway)
It's also legal to get the Empower ISV program for two years, and after you have earned some money, go and get the regular MSDN. I am currently a Empower ISV subscriber and I am looking forward to buy MSDN when my two years expire. Why spend the money if you can save it legally?
Luis Alonso Ramos Intelectix Chihuahua, Mexico
Not much here: My CP Blog!
Luis Alonso Ramos wrote:
I am currently a Empower ISV subscriber and I am looking forward to buy MSDN when my two years expire. Why spend the money if you can save it legally?
Indeed, that is perfectly legit, but there are also other requirements that you've signed up for as an Empower ISV. e.g.... 1) submit your software for official testing (i.e. pay) 2) and join the MS partner program at the end of the two years. (i.e. pay) I'm not trashing the Empower program (I think it's pretty decent all-in-all) but there are a few obligations that come along with it. Warren
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Luis Alonso Ramos wrote:
I am currently a Empower ISV subscriber and I am looking forward to buy MSDN when my two years expire. Why spend the money if you can save it legally?
Indeed, that is perfectly legit, but there are also other requirements that you've signed up for as an Empower ISV. e.g.... 1) submit your software for official testing (i.e. pay) 2) and join the MS partner program at the end of the two years. (i.e. pay) I'm not trashing the Empower program (I think it's pretty decent all-in-all) but there are a few obligations that come along with it. Warren
Need Icons? Huge list of Stock Icon collections (free and commercial): www.IconsReview.com
Warren D Stevens wrote:
there are also other requirements that you've signed up for as an Empower ISV.
The requirement asks you to do what is commercially possible, that is, try to if your business can afford it. If I have the money to do it, I would probably do it. Getting it tested is a good thing, don't you think?
Luis Alonso Ramos Intelectix Chihuahua, Mexico
Not much here: My CP Blog!
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And also check MS Action Pack. It's a yearly subscription for up to ten licenses for almost everything (to use in your day to day work, that is Office for writing letters, not for testing you app, as the MSDN license). And you can renew it for as many years as you want.
Luis Alonso Ramos Intelectix Chihuahua, Mexico
Not much here: My CP Blog!
I'm seriously considering that subscription. In Italy it costs 320 Euros (I have to find out how much the handling fee is). Could you describe which types of licenses come with the subscription? On the website it's not clear... Can I use them for production or only for evaluation? Thank you.
________________________________________________ Tozzi is right: Gaia is getting rid of us. Personal Blog [ITA] - Tech Blog [ENG] Developing ScrewTurn Wiki 1.0 RC, now with AJAX Preview.
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I'm seriously considering that subscription. In Italy it costs 320 Euros (I have to find out how much the handling fee is). Could you describe which types of licenses come with the subscription? On the website it's not clear... Can I use them for production or only for evaluation? Thank you.
________________________________________________ Tozzi is right: Gaia is getting rid of us. Personal Blog [ITA] - Tech Blog [ENG] Developing ScrewTurn Wiki 1.0 RC, now with AJAX Preview.
Disclaimer - I'm in the UK. You can use them for production use. The kit contains 1 licence for most server products with 10 client access licences, and 10 licences for client products. I'm not sure what the situation is with downgrades, whether you are required to run the most recent versions of the software. If you don't renew your Action Pack subscription, your right to use the software ends. Servers (1 licence + 10 CALs): SQL Server 2005 Standard Edition (plus SP1) Microsoft CRM 3.0 Exchange Server 2003 Standard Edition (plus SP2) ISA Server 2004 (plus SP1) Live Communication Server 2005 Office Project Server 2003 Office Sharepoint Portal Server 2003 Virtual Server 2005 R2 Standard Edition (but this is free now anyway) Windows Server 2003 R2 Standard Edition Windows Server 2003 Web Edition Windows Sharepoint Services Standard 2003 Windows Small Business Server 2003 Premium Edition incl SP1 Client (10 licences): Business Contact Manager Update for Outlook 2003 Office FrontPage 2003 InfoPath 2003 Office Professional Edition 2003 Office Project Professional 2003 Visio Professional 2003 OneNote 2003 Microsoft Operations Manager 2005 Workgroup Edition System Center Data Protection Manager 2006 Virtual PC 2004 Visual Basic 2005 Express Visual Web Developer 2005 Express Windows XP Pro SP2 Windows XP Pro x64
Stability. What an interesting concept. -- Chris Maunder
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Disclaimer - I'm in the UK. You can use them for production use. The kit contains 1 licence for most server products with 10 client access licences, and 10 licences for client products. I'm not sure what the situation is with downgrades, whether you are required to run the most recent versions of the software. If you don't renew your Action Pack subscription, your right to use the software ends. Servers (1 licence + 10 CALs): SQL Server 2005 Standard Edition (plus SP1) Microsoft CRM 3.0 Exchange Server 2003 Standard Edition (plus SP2) ISA Server 2004 (plus SP1) Live Communication Server 2005 Office Project Server 2003 Office Sharepoint Portal Server 2003 Virtual Server 2005 R2 Standard Edition (but this is free now anyway) Windows Server 2003 R2 Standard Edition Windows Server 2003 Web Edition Windows Sharepoint Services Standard 2003 Windows Small Business Server 2003 Premium Edition incl SP1 Client (10 licences): Business Contact Manager Update for Outlook 2003 Office FrontPage 2003 InfoPath 2003 Office Professional Edition 2003 Office Project Professional 2003 Visio Professional 2003 OneNote 2003 Microsoft Operations Manager 2005 Workgroup Edition System Center Data Protection Manager 2006 Virtual PC 2004 Visual Basic 2005 Express Visual Web Developer 2005 Express Windows XP Pro SP2 Windows XP Pro x64
Stability. What an interesting concept. -- Chris Maunder
Thanks Mike. That seems interesting, even if the licenses expire if you don't renew the subscription. I've got another question: on the website I read that, in order to be eligible for the program, you have to be a registered member of the partnership program (level 3). Does that mean I have to pay something else? Thank you.
________________________________________________ Tozzi is right: Gaia is getting rid of us. Personal Blog [ITA] - Tech Blog [ENG] Developing ScrewTurn Wiki 1.0 RC, now with AJAX Preview.
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Thanks Mike. That seems interesting, even if the licenses expire if you don't renew the subscription. I've got another question: on the website I read that, in order to be eligible for the program, you have to be a registered member of the partnership program (level 3). Does that mean I have to pay something else? Thank you.
________________________________________________ Tozzi is right: Gaia is getting rid of us. Personal Blog [ITA] - Tech Blog [ENG] Developing ScrewTurn Wiki 1.0 RC, now with AJAX Preview.
Just being a registered partner is enough, and that is free. The next level is certified partner, which costs around $1500 USD pero year.
Luis Alonso Ramos Intelectix Chihuahua, Mexico
Not much here: My CP Blog!
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Just being a registered partner is enough, and that is free. The next level is certified partner, which costs around $1500 USD pero year.
Luis Alonso Ramos Intelectix Chihuahua, Mexico
Not much here: My CP Blog!
Luis Alonso Ramos wrote:
Just being a registered partner is enough, and that is free. The next level is certified partner, which costs around $1500 USD pero year.
Nice, then. I'll look into it as soon as I can. Thank you.
________________________________________________ Tozzi is right: Gaia is getting rid of us. Personal Blog [ITA] - Tech Blog [ENG] Developing ScrewTurn Wiki 1.0 RC, now with AJAX Preview.
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Stephan Hoppe wrote:
I am also wondering if there are any hidden surprises
I looked at the Empower program myself, but I decided against it, because: "All the licenses, in contrary to the normal MSDN subscription, expire when your membership in the Empower for ISV program ends." see: http://software.gurock.com/articles/taking-advantage-of-microsofts-empower-for-isvs-program/[^] and you're required to 1) submit your software for official testing (i.e. pay) 2) and join the MS partner program at the end of the two years. (i.e. pay) See last 2 bullets at: https://empower-isv.one.microsoft.com/isv/programguide/Requirements.aspx[^] I'm not saying it's not a good deal, but there are a few thing to consider before going for it. -- modified at 17:21 Tuesday 22nd August, 2006
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2) and join the MS partner program at the end of the two years. (i.e. pay) It doesn't cost you a dime to become a registered Microsoft Partner. I've been one since 2003. The only thing that I've ever had to pay for was the ActionPack which cost me $299 and that was completely voluntary. Given that they give you more software and licenses (client software usually come with ten licenses each) and kits than you could conceivably use if you are an independent, it's a heck of a deal and well worth checking out. That was the single greatest incentive here to go for Registered Partner status here. While I do a lot of field work for clients, most of what I do is beta testing Microsoft software for MS since I'm semi-retired (medical reasons). The ActionPack gave me the baseline machines I need to do the beta work aside from aiding me in supporting clients. Microsoft Partner Program. Highly recommended.
-Bri "The most deadly words for an engineer. 'I have an idea.'"
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Warren D Stevens wrote:
there are also other requirements that you've signed up for as an Empower ISV.
The requirement asks you to do what is commercially possible, that is, try to if your business can afford it. If I have the money to do it, I would probably do it. Getting it tested is a good thing, don't you think?
Luis Alonso Ramos Intelectix Chihuahua, Mexico
Not much here: My CP Blog!
Luis Alonso Ramos wrote:
Getting it tested is a good thing, don't you think
Obviously testing is a good thing (in general), but my impression was that these testing (for Microsoft certification) services were very expensive. I could be wrong about my impression - I really haven't looked into it much. I would say your testing money is better spent hiring a summer student to sit down and hammer at your application in as many ways possible (vs. these services), as the "designed for windows" logo doesn't carry much weight.
Need Icons? Huge list of Stock Icon collections (free and commercial): www.IconsReview.com
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2) and join the MS partner program at the end of the two years. (i.e. pay) It doesn't cost you a dime to become a registered Microsoft Partner. I've been one since 2003. The only thing that I've ever had to pay for was the ActionPack which cost me $299 and that was completely voluntary. Given that they give you more software and licenses (client software usually come with ten licenses each) and kits than you could conceivably use if you are an independent, it's a heck of a deal and well worth checking out. That was the single greatest incentive here to go for Registered Partner status here. While I do a lot of field work for clients, most of what I do is beta testing Microsoft software for MS since I'm semi-retired (medical reasons). The ActionPack gave me the baseline machines I need to do the beta work aside from aiding me in supporting clients. Microsoft Partner Program. Highly recommended.
-Bri "The most deadly words for an engineer. 'I have an idea.'"
Brian Bartlett wrote:
It doesn't cost you a dime to become a registered Microsoft Partner
I didn't know about that level being free. My only concern (and probably the original poster's concern based on his reply) was that the license for Developer Studio would expire after 2 years. As I said elsewhere, I'm not saying the program is scam or a bad deal, I was just pointing out a few of the requirements because they are not obviously posted on the Empower page. It's still probably a good choice for a lot of people.
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Luis Alonso Ramos wrote:
Getting it tested is a good thing, don't you think
Obviously testing is a good thing (in general), but my impression was that these testing (for Microsoft certification) services were very expensive. I could be wrong about my impression - I really haven't looked into it much. I would say your testing money is better spent hiring a summer student to sit down and hammer at your application in as many ways possible (vs. these services), as the "designed for windows" logo doesn't carry much weight.
Need Icons? Huge list of Stock Icon collections (free and commercial): www.IconsReview.com
I looked into the program once. I was also skeptical about the apparent ease of entry to this "cheap software" channel. I even called and talked to the program rep that was assigned to me about whether a web app qualified since I primarily develop web-based products. She assured me that as long as I was building it on MS technology that it was all good. Now this was some time ago but I got the impression that they weren't going to come after me with a pitchfork if I didn't dot every I and cross every T. I think the real purpose behind this is to give developers a legit entry into commercial software distribution using MS tools. I don't think they care too much what you do with it because they see it as a crapshoot. Some will develop a product worth talking about (indirectly marketing for MS) and some won't and either way MS hasn't lost anything. In fact they've probably gained a small bit of revenue from a dev who would otherwise have just pirated the software anyway and a possible marketing win if something worthwhile gets developed.
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I looked into the program once. I was also skeptical about the apparent ease of entry to this "cheap software" channel. I even called and talked to the program rep that was assigned to me about whether a web app qualified since I primarily develop web-based products. She assured me that as long as I was building it on MS technology that it was all good. Now this was some time ago but I got the impression that they weren't going to come after me with a pitchfork if I didn't dot every I and cross every T. I think the real purpose behind this is to give developers a legit entry into commercial software distribution using MS tools. I don't think they care too much what you do with it because they see it as a crapshoot. Some will develop a product worth talking about (indirectly marketing for MS) and some won't and either way MS hasn't lost anything. In fact they've probably gained a small bit of revenue from a dev who would otherwise have just pirated the software anyway and a possible marketing win if something worthwhile gets developed.
Indeed, I agree with your impression (i.e. generally "
HarrisonIS wrote:
they weren't going to come after me with a pitchfork if I didn't dot every I and cross every T
") and that they're just trying to
HarrisonIS wrote:
gained a small bit of revenue from a dev who would otherwise have just pirated the software anyway
but I was developing something with some overlap (in market) of a MS product, so I didn't want to take any chances.
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Stephan Hoppe wrote:
I am also wondering if there are any hidden surprises
I looked at the Empower program myself, but I decided against it, because: "All the licenses, in contrary to the normal MSDN subscription, expire when your membership in the Empower for ISV program ends." see: http://software.gurock.com/articles/taking-advantage-of-microsofts-empower-for-isvs-program/[^] and you're required to 1) submit your software for official testing (i.e. pay) 2) and join the MS partner program at the end of the two years. (i.e. pay) See last 2 bullets at: https://empower-isv.one.microsoft.com/isv/programguide/Requirements.aspx[^] I'm not saying it's not a good deal, but there are a few thing to consider before going for it. -- modified at 17:21 Tuesday 22nd August, 2006
Need Icons? Huge list of Stock Icon collections (free and commercial): www.IconsReview.com