its weird [modified]
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AbhishekBK wrote:
One thing I have noticed about people here is that if they have a choice between doing good work and doing bad work and no one will ever find out, people here revert to bad work.
Yeah, there are people like that all over. That's exactly why people who are willing to always do their best will rise to the top.
AbhishekBK wrote:
And I do think now that The kind of work you do is really important.
I'm interested, what do you mean by 'the kind of work you do' ???
AbhishekBK wrote:
Plus you should also have a personal inclination towards your work.
Yeah, I work 14 hour days, and it's only survivable because I still love it.
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ Metal Musings - Rex and my new metal blog
Christian Graus wrote:
I'm interested, what do you mean by 'the kind of work you do' ???
Something like, say you know how to get ThingX to do something. If your job is to get that ThingX done for a dozen other customers then your Job is very repetitive. If however in the same project you can't use ThingX for another purpose cause that would screw up ThingY. That’s when you are talking real work. In that case you may have to Learn to do ThingX' or Thing X'' or maybe even ThingZ. If you are coding in such a way that you are having to learn about things you did not know about, and all this because of the nature of your job, that’s good work. On the other hand if you’re changing variable names and column names for the same kind of code, it’s not fun after sometime.
Abhishek The worst loneliness is not to be comfortable with yourself. --Mark Twain
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Christian Graus wrote:
I'm interested, what do you mean by 'the kind of work you do' ???
Something like, say you know how to get ThingX to do something. If your job is to get that ThingX done for a dozen other customers then your Job is very repetitive. If however in the same project you can't use ThingX for another purpose cause that would screw up ThingY. That’s when you are talking real work. In that case you may have to Learn to do ThingX' or Thing X'' or maybe even ThingZ. If you are coding in such a way that you are having to learn about things you did not know about, and all this because of the nature of your job, that’s good work. On the other hand if you’re changing variable names and column names for the same kind of code, it’s not fun after sometime.
Abhishek The worst loneliness is not to be comfortable with yourself. --Mark Twain
Oh, I see. You're just saying my work is not repetitive. That's certainly true. I'd imagine that outsourced work will often be repetitive, because people paying overseas rates will be subcontracting the boring bits, or simply assume that's all they can get done for the money they pay. Although, it's also true that I imagine there are a lot of CMS type apps being written that all basically do the same thing with different business rules.
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ Metal Musings - Rex and my new metal blog
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Oh, I see. You're just saying my work is not repetitive. That's certainly true. I'd imagine that outsourced work will often be repetitive, because people paying overseas rates will be subcontracting the boring bits, or simply assume that's all they can get done for the money they pay. Although, it's also true that I imagine there are a lot of CMS type apps being written that all basically do the same thing with different business rules.
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ Metal Musings - Rex and my new metal blog
Christian Graus wrote:
You're just saying my work is not repetitive.
Well that is not what I am saying......... at least not completely. It’s like this: Microsoft Rolls out new C++ compiler. Everybody stars porting code and developing for it. And your client in the US expects you to do the same. So when your Technical Director decides "we support the latest Microsoft technologies", you got to port. Even if he has no idea if the newer compiler is any better than the old one. There is no second thought. Most of the things here in India happen this way. No body knows why they are using Eclipse along with an expensive third party Form Builder when they could use NetBeans which is 100% free and comes along with a form builder! Maybe there is a reason, but they have not bothered to find out. In fact there is nobody you know that knows why. If the developers don’t see the picture, they are not exited about being in the middle of something very dynamic; the software industry. I for example get to decide my own Dev tools. And I have to say, there is no bigger incentive than that. So if I don’t want to change, I don’t change. I have heard of so many people cribbing about porting code, and all that stuff. But believe me, though I have a choice, I still shift. I also get to see if I could by any chance build the code in Express Edition. We are not going to release it in the market though, but I have that freedom. And since I get to see the things, I am more exited about it. That is missing here. The developer has to see what is happening around him. If he does that, you are hooked to software.
Abhishek The worst loneliness is not to be comfortable with yourself. --Mark Twain
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I have to admit, there are days where I pine for the social aspect of working in an office, but that's what the lounge is for.
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ Metal Musings - Rex and my new metal blog
Christian Graus wrote:
I have to admit, there are days where I pine for the social aspect of working in an office, but that's what the lounge is for.
Yeah. CP was a godsend when I was working on my own. I'll probably lose my geek membership but the social aspect is the most important thing about going to work.
Michael CP Blog [^] Development Blog [^]
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probably I am suitable for a small offices (in which until now I have been working) rather than biffer ones..
pathak
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Unfortumately games are not allowed here.. :( But in any case i find my office quite exciting to come daily. :)
Best Regards, Apurva Kaushal
Yeah here too. I love my job :).. but sometimes the time I leave the office worries me. 10.30 or 11.00 at night sometimes. :sigh:
--[:jig:]-- [My Current Status]
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Yeah here too. I love my job :).. but sometimes the time I leave the office worries me. 10.30 or 11.00 at night sometimes. :sigh:
--[:jig:]-- [My Current Status]
VuNic wrote:
but sometimes the time I leave the office worries me. 10.30 or 11.00 at night sometimes.
I too use to go home at that time. Normally when we are having some deadlines to meet. :) But normally that also i use to enjoy, may be the reason is that I live here as bachelor(alone) and there at home also only way entertainment is television. :)
Best Regards, Apurva Kaushal
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VuNic wrote:
but sometimes the time I leave the office worries me. 10.30 or 11.00 at night sometimes.
I too use to go home at that time. Normally when we are having some deadlines to meet. :) But normally that also i use to enjoy, may be the reason is that I live here as bachelor(alone) and there at home also only way entertainment is television. :)
Best Regards, Apurva Kaushal
You know I used to stay in office almost the entire day. I used to enter at 9.00 AM and leave by 2.00 AM! we play tt at 1.00 AM in the night. but after that I had serious health problems. My back started aching, my neck, stomach acidity .. all these stopped me from doing my regular exercise.:doh:..and ultimately started looking like Golum.:wtf: Then I started following the schedule. 8 hours work. that's it. But if the situation demands, I'd work extra hours. sometimes I come early in the morning. Or sometimes I go to another facility which is near my home and connect my pc through remote desktop. But my Boss doesn't allow this everytime.He feels I enjoy too much without his presence. :-D.. Now everything's going fine.:cool:
--[:jig:]-- [My Current Status]
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I really dont like my superior asking me status of the work done, or asking when can the job be done.. or work overtime or come on saturdays to work. I dont like to take orders. It seems I can not work as a team. feal lonely out there. have become less communicative.. I just hate to work so much for such a small amount in India. I need more money. more freedom. flexible working hours. Want to spend time with my family. may be fixed to 8 a day. I hate to travel in public buses daily and looking at tense faces everyday (that includes mine too) from the same IT field. All are so robotic in office. fake smiles. too much formalities. even members from opposit sex are so boring. seems like everybody has lost their libidos. looks like after 10 years , their would be so much diebetic, blood pressure and heart and hyper tension . patients . joke apart but i dont like the environment but I like programming. do anyone has same sentiments.. how can I improve my approach. any opinions... -- modified at 4:04 Thursday 24th August, 2006
pathak
pathakr wrote:
flexible working hours. Want to spend time with my family. may be fixed to 8 a day. I hate to travel in public buses daily and looking at tense faces everyday (that includes mine too) from the same IT field. All are so robotic in office. fake smiles. too much formalities. even members from opposit sex are so boring. seems like everybody has lost their libidos. looks like after 10 years , their would be so much diebetic, blood pressure and heart and hyper tension . patients .
Wellcome to the developed world. You wanted it. You've got it.
Truth is the subjection of reality to an individuals perception
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You know I used to stay in office almost the entire day. I used to enter at 9.00 AM and leave by 2.00 AM! we play tt at 1.00 AM in the night. but after that I had serious health problems. My back started aching, my neck, stomach acidity .. all these stopped me from doing my regular exercise.:doh:..and ultimately started looking like Golum.:wtf: Then I started following the schedule. 8 hours work. that's it. But if the situation demands, I'd work extra hours. sometimes I come early in the morning. Or sometimes I go to another facility which is near my home and connect my pc through remote desktop. But my Boss doesn't allow this everytime.He feels I enjoy too much without his presence. :-D.. Now everything's going fine.:cool:
--[:jig:]-- [My Current Status]
VuNic wrote:
I used to enter at 9.00 AM and leave by 2.00 AM!
Really too much. :) That is quite true that if you do some changes in the normal routine then certainly your health is at high risk. I too don't want to make that as a habit.
VuNic wrote:
Or sometimes I go to another facility which is near my home and connect my pc through remote desktop. But my Boss doesn't allow this everytime.He feels I enjoy too much without his presence.
All boses are same they can't see us happy. :-D
Best Regards, Apurva Kaushal
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You what Christian, personally I think it’s the work culture here in India that's the real bug. One thing I have noticed about people here is that if they have a choice between doing good work and doing bad work and no one will ever find out, people here revert to bad work. I haven’t traveled out of India ever, but I just passed out of college and am working for only 6 months. And there are some things that I saw I did not expect to. One of the most common one is for example is the kind of work you do. There is this Idiom about the outsourcing Jobs people in India do. Job No 1 Job Profile: Take data from Form1 -> Put it into table one Then take it from table 1 and put it in table 2 Job No 2 Job Profile: Take data from Form1 -> Put it into table one Then take it from table 1 and put it in table 2 Job No 3 Job Profile: …………. ……… That’s what most of my friends complaining about, “it’s the same shit always!” Lucky I got a job here where I work on Product development. And I am super exited about it. But, most of my friends end up blaming their Jobs for the boredom. And I do think now that The kind of work you do is really important. Plus you should also have a personal inclination towards your work.
Abhishek The worst loneliness is not to be comfortable with yourself. --Mark Twain
AbhishekBK wrote:
One of the most common one is for example is the kind of work you do. There is this Idiom about the outsourcing Jobs people in India do. Job No 1 Job Profile: Take data from Form1 -> Put it into table one Then take it from table 1 and put it in table 2 Job No 2 Job Profile: Take data from Form1 -> Put it into table one Then take it from table 1 and put it in table 2 Job No 3 Job Profile: …………. ……… That’s what most of my friends complaining about, “it’s the same sh*t always!”
Most coding is boring. It is just glorified typing. Analysis and Design is where the interesting tasks are. I hate the coding part of my job. That's why I've spent so much time on building code generators and using meta-data driven development such as MyXaml. The more I can get the computer to do for me, the better.
Michael CP Blog [^] Development Blog [^]
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AbhishekBK wrote:
One of the most common one is for example is the kind of work you do. There is this Idiom about the outsourcing Jobs people in India do. Job No 1 Job Profile: Take data from Form1 -> Put it into table one Then take it from table 1 and put it in table 2 Job No 2 Job Profile: Take data from Form1 -> Put it into table one Then take it from table 1 and put it in table 2 Job No 3 Job Profile: …………. ……… That’s what most of my friends complaining about, “it’s the same sh*t always!”
Most coding is boring. It is just glorified typing. Analysis and Design is where the interesting tasks are. I hate the coding part of my job. That's why I've spent so much time on building code generators and using meta-data driven development such as MyXaml. The more I can get the computer to do for me, the better.
Michael CP Blog [^] Development Blog [^]
Michael P Butler wrote:
Most coding is boring. It is just glorified typing. Analysis and Design is where the interesting tasks are.
Maybe. But, we can probably say the same about the Garage mechanic. Every Bike is different.... but the difference lies only in figuring out what the problem is. After that its only tightening screws. In fact the same goes for any Job out there. But I believe, the trick lies to work somewhere you get to do a little bit both. Doing only analysis, may become like an MBA trying to tell you how write the program. But, there is no escape from better and faster tools.
Abhishek The worst loneliness is not to be comfortable with yourself. --Mark Twain
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I really dont like my superior asking me status of the work done, or asking when can the job be done.. or work overtime or come on saturdays to work. I dont like to take orders. It seems I can not work as a team. feal lonely out there. have become less communicative.. I just hate to work so much for such a small amount in India. I need more money. more freedom. flexible working hours. Want to spend time with my family. may be fixed to 8 a day. I hate to travel in public buses daily and looking at tense faces everyday (that includes mine too) from the same IT field. All are so robotic in office. fake smiles. too much formalities. even members from opposit sex are so boring. seems like everybody has lost their libidos. looks like after 10 years , their would be so much diebetic, blood pressure and heart and hyper tension . patients . joke apart but i dont like the environment but I like programming. do anyone has same sentiments.. how can I improve my approach. any opinions... -- modified at 4:04 Thursday 24th August, 2006
pathak
Be happy you're not a Japanese employee! Anyways, I think you bring up some good points. Work environments can be very dehumanizing. I think most of what you are observing about your own feelings are a result of a loss of spirituality and a sense of belonging to something bigger. You may scoff at such remarks, but a human being needs to feel valued and needs to feel that he/she has a meaningful relationship with other people. Spirituality is a part of that relationship, if you want to really feel meaning in that relationship. IMO. Marc
People are just notoriously impossible. --DavidCrow
There's NO excuse for not commenting your code. -- John Simmons / outlaw programmer
People who say that they will refactor their code later to make it "good" don't understand refactoring, nor the art and craft of programming. -- Josh Smith -
pathakr wrote:
But in India, sometime office politics comes into play.
You think that's unique to India ?
pathakr wrote:
I understand I have a problem.. working on it buddy.
In my experience, hard work always pays off, even if it doesn't always look like it.
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ Metal Musings - Rex and my new metal blog
Christian Graus wrote:
In my experience, hard work always pays off, even if it doesn't always look like it.
I can definitely relate to the "doesn't always look like it". After 15 months of 50-60 hour weeks, and every single line of code was dumped and the client side stuff moved to Delphi. :sigh: Marc
People are just notoriously impossible. --DavidCrow
There's NO excuse for not commenting your code. -- John Simmons / outlaw programmer
People who say that they will refactor their code later to make it "good" don't understand refactoring, nor the art and craft of programming. -- Josh Smith -
Christian Graus wrote:
In my experience, hard work always pays off, even if it doesn't always look like it.
I can definitely relate to the "doesn't always look like it". After 15 months of 50-60 hour weeks, and every single line of code was dumped and the client side stuff moved to Delphi. :sigh: Marc
People are just notoriously impossible. --DavidCrow
There's NO excuse for not commenting your code. -- John Simmons / outlaw programmer
People who say that they will refactor their code later to make it "good" don't understand refactoring, nor the art and craft of programming. -- Josh SmithMarc Clifton wrote:
15 months of 50-60 hour weeks, and every single line of code was dumped
Which explains why I'll take a job in the fast food industry before I do defense contracting again. I worked at a contractor writing simulations/emulations for three years at one point. Out of all the software I wrote in that period, one sim application was used for a two week period. The rest of it went on a shelf and disappeared down a black hole :(.
Software Zen:
delete this; -
I have to admit, there are days where I pine for the social aspect of working in an office, but that's what the lounge is for.
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ Metal Musings - Rex and my new metal blog
Christian Graus wrote:
that's what the lounge is for.
If only there was a way we could all meet up for a beer on Friday's :doh:
"Nothing ever changes by staying the same." - David Brent (BBC's The Office)
~ ScrollingGrid: A cross-browser freeze-header control for the ASP.NET DataGrid
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I really dont like my superior asking me status of the work done, or asking when can the job be done.. or work overtime or come on saturdays to work. I dont like to take orders. It seems I can not work as a team. feal lonely out there. have become less communicative.. I just hate to work so much for such a small amount in India. I need more money. more freedom. flexible working hours. Want to spend time with my family. may be fixed to 8 a day. I hate to travel in public buses daily and looking at tense faces everyday (that includes mine too) from the same IT field. All are so robotic in office. fake smiles. too much formalities. even members from opposit sex are so boring. seems like everybody has lost their libidos. looks like after 10 years , their would be so much diebetic, blood pressure and heart and hyper tension . patients . joke apart but i dont like the environment but I like programming. do anyone has same sentiments.. how can I improve my approach. any opinions... -- modified at 4:04 Thursday 24th August, 2006
pathak
If you don't like your job you could leave. If you can't leave (for now), then try to change your own viewpoint (cos you're not going to be able to change everyone else), and just keep working hard with the goal of leaving as soon as you can.
"Nothing ever changes by staying the same." - David Brent (BBC's The Office)
~ ScrollingGrid: A cross-browser freeze-header control for the ASP.NET DataGrid
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Marc Clifton wrote:
15 months of 50-60 hour weeks, and every single line of code was dumped
Which explains why I'll take a job in the fast food industry before I do defense contracting again. I worked at a contractor writing simulations/emulations for three years at one point. Out of all the software I wrote in that period, one sim application was used for a two week period. The rest of it went on a shelf and disappeared down a black hole :(.
Software Zen:
delete this;Gary Wheeler wrote:
Which explains why I'll take a job in the fast food industry before I do defense contracting again.
I worked on the security system for the MX Missile Train at one point. I was actually relieved when the project got cancelled. It was such a fiasco of requirements vs. reality of the hardware at that time. My favorite thing was when the engineers discovered that the 60 pound pan-tilt platform would become ballistic as it sheared off its bolts to meet the requirement that it has to "pop out" of the enclosure in something like a 1/4 second. Well, that's one way to try and kill the terrorists. My other favorite was the little side mounted cameras which were actually nightvision cameras. Then someone said, "you know, most of the railroad tracks in the US run east-west". The point being, that these cameras with their sensitive photomultipliers would be burnt out every sunrise and sunset. It was sad though, these people who had worked for years on the MT, were VERY upset that all that effort was wasted when Congress killed it. Marc
People are just notoriously impossible. --DavidCrow
There's NO excuse for not commenting your code. -- John Simmons / outlaw programmer
People who say that they will refactor their code later to make it "good" don't understand refactoring, nor the art and craft of programming. -- Josh Smith