Don't call us violent or we'll kill you...
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Seriously, though. You're TOTALLY misrepresenting Islam. They're peace-loving people with just the OCCASIONAL extremist. Or something.
"I make up quotes." -Vincent Reynolds
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Red Stateler wrote:
They're peace-loving people
No offense, just a question. Doesn't they kill women who have been raped by throwing stones on them???
Michal Martinka wrote:
No offense
You must be new to soapbox:)
Debugging is twice as hard as writing the code in the first place. Therefore, if you write the code as cleverly as possible, you are, by definition, not smart enough to debug it. -Brian Kernighan
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It's prayer and peaceful reflection day today. I predict irony free burning of the many, many cars of Allah as a reaction to this insult. On a related note - Oriana Fallaci has died[^], in her recent audience with the Pope she asked him to speak out against Islam. She threw of her chadoor while interviewing Khomeini, calling it a 'medieval rag'. An anti fascist resistance fighter and long time member of the radical left, now condemned by many as a fascist herself for continuing her opposition to totalitarianism..
Ryan
"Michael Moore and Mel Gibson are the same person, except for a few sit-ups. Moore thought his cheesy political blooper reel was going to tell people how to vote. Mel thought that his little gay SM movie about his imaginary friend was going to help him get to heaven." - Penn Jillette
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Red Stateler wrote:
They're peace-loving people
No offense, just a question. Doesn't they kill women who have been raped by throwing stones on them???
Under the Taliban, and sometimes in Iran. It's not ubiquitous. Rape is often punished though, as unless the victim can produce 4 male witnesses she is considered to have committed adultery which is punishable by whipping (if unmarried) or death (if married) under Sharia law.
Ryan
"Michael Moore and Mel Gibson are the same person, except for a few sit-ups. Moore thought his cheesy political blooper reel was going to tell people how to vote. Mel thought that his little gay SM movie about his imaginary friend was going to help him get to heaven." - Penn Jillette
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K(arl) wrote:
Come on, you know it is the central point.
It's emotive, certainly, deliberately knowing Fallaci. If however she were to have said "the muslim population of europe has doubled in the past decade and many projections hold that it will double again by 2015", in the context of anything other than what a wonderful thing that would be the reaction would have been similar. Just not as likely to get her the publicity..
Ryan
"Michael Moore and Mel Gibson are the same person, except for a few sit-ups. Moore thought his cheesy political blooper reel was going to tell people how to vote. Mel thought that his little gay SM movie about his imaginary friend was going to help him get to heaven." - Penn Jillette
First she pretended that when a muslim has a child, it is mandatory a muslim, as if being muslim was being part of a specific race: she didn't accept that a muslim can be also an Italian citizen, whose children would also be italian citizens. And when comparing a group of people to rats, it is not emotive but insulting and she knew it.
The bombs are falling overhead with no sight
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Under the Taliban, and sometimes in Iran. It's not ubiquitous. Rape is often punished though, as unless the victim can produce 4 male witnesses she is considered to have committed adultery which is punishable by whipping (if unmarried) or death (if married) under Sharia law.
Ryan
"Michael Moore and Mel Gibson are the same person, except for a few sit-ups. Moore thought his cheesy political blooper reel was going to tell people how to vote. Mel thought that his little gay SM movie about his imaginary friend was going to help him get to heaven." - Penn Jillette
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First she pretended that when a muslim has a child, it is mandatory a muslim, as if being muslim was being part of a specific race: she didn't accept that a muslim can be also an Italian citizen, whose children would also be italian citizens. And when comparing a group of people to rats, it is not emotive but insulting and she knew it.
The bombs are falling overhead with no sight
K(arl) wrote:
First she pretended that when a muslim has a child, it is mandatory a muslim, as if being muslim was being part of a specific race
That's exactly what Mulsims believe.. To the extent that the Bahai in Iran are sometime punished for apostacy, becuase their ancestors were born Muslim. I think you should check the target of your condemnation..
Ryan
"Michael Moore and Mel Gibson are the same person, except for a few sit-ups. Moore thought his cheesy political blooper reel was going to tell people how to vote. Mel thought that his little gay SM movie about his imaginary friend was going to help him get to heaven." - Penn Jillette
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Ryan Roberts wrote:
unless the victim can produce 4 male witnesses she is considered to have committed adultery
4 male witnesses? It's stupid. How often this happens? What are the chances to have 4 male witnesses in case of rape?
Yup, old Mo' had a handy revelation after someone accused his child bride Aisha of adultery. 24:8[^].
Ryan
"Michael Moore and Mel Gibson are the same person, except for a few sit-ups. Moore thought his cheesy political blooper reel was going to tell people how to vote. Mel thought that his little gay SM movie about his imaginary friend was going to help him get to heaven." - Penn Jillette
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Ryan Roberts wrote:
unless the victim can produce 4 male witnesses she is considered to have committed adultery
4 male witnesses? It's stupid. How often this happens? What are the chances to have 4 male witnesses in case of rape?
Michal Martinka wrote:
4 male witnesses? It's stupid. How often this happens? What are the chances to have 4 male witnesses in case of rape?
Don’t believe everything you read here; especially considering it’s the SB and Ryan is speaking about Islam. Some Clarification[^]
Recitation(not full prayer)in AlMasjid AlHaram Surah AlHaaqa(The Reality) Surah Qaf Eid Alfitr Turning Muslim in Texas?
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K(arl) wrote:
First she pretended that when a muslim has a child, it is mandatory a muslim, as if being muslim was being part of a specific race
That's exactly what Mulsims believe.. To the extent that the Bahai in Iran are sometime punished for apostacy, becuase their ancestors were born Muslim. I think you should check the target of your condemnation..
Ryan
"Michael Moore and Mel Gibson are the same person, except for a few sit-ups. Moore thought his cheesy political blooper reel was going to tell people how to vote. Mel thought that his little gay SM movie about his imaginary friend was going to help him get to heaven." - Penn Jillette
Ryan Roberts wrote:
That's exactly what Mulsims believe.
BS. And even if it is, a muslim can be a citizen as the same level than a Catholic or an atheist, that is democracy 101. This mentality of 'besieged' is ridiculous and toxic.
Ryan Roberts wrote:
. To the extent that the Bahai in Iran are sometime punished for apostacy, becuase their ancestors were born Muslim
Your geographical diversion won't help you to justify insulting people you know.
The bombs are falling overhead with no sight
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Michal Martinka wrote:
4 male witnesses? It's stupid. How often this happens? What are the chances to have 4 male witnesses in case of rape?
Don’t believe everything you read here; especially considering it’s the SB and Ryan is speaking about Islam. Some Clarification[^]
Recitation(not full prayer)in AlMasjid AlHaram Surah AlHaaqa(The Reality) Surah Qaf Eid Alfitr Turning Muslim in Texas?
"The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger, and strive with might and main for mischief through the land is: execution or crucifixion or the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides or exile from the land: that is their disgrace in this world and a heavy punishment is theirs in the Hereafter" :~
"I make up quotes." -Vincent Reynolds
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Michal Martinka wrote:
4 male witnesses? It's stupid. How often this happens? What are the chances to have 4 male witnesses in case of rape?
Don’t believe everything you read here; especially considering it’s the SB and Ryan is speaking about Islam. Some Clarification[^]
Recitation(not full prayer)in AlMasjid AlHaram Surah AlHaaqa(The Reality) Surah Qaf Eid Alfitr Turning Muslim in Texas?
So the stuff in Sura 24 is actually meant to be used as it seems to be intended? I.e to protect women from frivolous accusations of adultery? I Had wondered how it ended up being used raise the burden of proof for rape several Islamic countries. But hey, I'm not the Muslim.
Ryan
"Michael Moore and Mel Gibson are the same person, except for a few sit-ups. Moore thought his cheesy political blooper reel was going to tell people how to vote. Mel thought that his little gay SM movie about his imaginary friend was going to help him get to heaven." - Penn Jillette
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"The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger, and strive with might and main for mischief through the land is: execution or crucifixion or the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides or exile from the land: that is their disgrace in this world and a heavy punishment is theirs in the Hereafter" :~
"I make up quotes." -Vincent Reynolds
Red Stateler wrote:
"The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger, and strive with might and main for mischief through the land is: execution or crucifixion or the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides or exile from the land: that is their disgrace in this world and a heavy punishment is theirs in the Hereafter"
Yup, though as not to be read it in Isolation (in fact better to read the whole section or Surah):
AL-MAEDA:32 On that account: We ordained for the Children of Israel that if any one slew a person - unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land - it would be as if he slew the whole people: and if any one saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of the whole people. Then although there came to them Our messengers with clear signs, yet, even after that, many of them continued to commit excesses in the land. AL-MAEDA:33 The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger, and strive with might and main for mischief through the land is: execution, or crucifixion, or the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides, or exile from the land: that is their disgrace in this world, and a heavy punishment is theirs in the Hereafter; AL-MAEDA:34 Except for those who repent before they fall into your power: in that case, know that Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.Recitation(not full prayer)in AlMasjid AlHaram Surah AlHaaqa(The Reality) Surah Qaf Eid Alfitr Turning Muslim in Texas?
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Ryan Roberts wrote:
That's exactly what Mulsims believe.
BS. And even if it is, a muslim can be a citizen as the same level than a Catholic or an atheist, that is democracy 101. This mentality of 'besieged' is ridiculous and toxic.
Ryan Roberts wrote:
. To the extent that the Bahai in Iran are sometime punished for apostacy, becuase their ancestors were born Muslim
Your geographical diversion won't help you to justify insulting people you know.
The bombs are falling overhead with no sight
K(arl) wrote:
And even if it is, a muslim can be a citizen as the same level
Not if their first loyalty is to the Umma, no, that's what breaks the whole democratic model and is what worries racist arseholes like myself and Ms Fallaci. It is typical of your thinking on the issue that you throw the beliefs of other people back at me for pointing them out. It is dangerously naive not to be concerned about demographic predictions that show a Muslim majority population in Europe within 3 generations.
K(arl) wrote:
Your geographical diversion
What? Its a clear example of fundamentalist Muslim thinking on the issue.
Ryan
"Michael Moore and Mel Gibson are the same person, except for a few sit-ups. Moore thought his cheesy political blooper reel was going to tell people how to vote. Mel thought that his little gay SM movie about his imaginary friend was going to help him get to heaven." - Penn Jillette
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Red Stateler wrote:
"The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger, and strive with might and main for mischief through the land is: execution or crucifixion or the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides or exile from the land: that is their disgrace in this world and a heavy punishment is theirs in the Hereafter"
Yup, though as not to be read it in Isolation (in fact better to read the whole section or Surah):
AL-MAEDA:32 On that account: We ordained for the Children of Israel that if any one slew a person - unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land - it would be as if he slew the whole people: and if any one saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of the whole people. Then although there came to them Our messengers with clear signs, yet, even after that, many of them continued to commit excesses in the land. AL-MAEDA:33 The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger, and strive with might and main for mischief through the land is: execution, or crucifixion, or the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides, or exile from the land: that is their disgrace in this world, and a heavy punishment is theirs in the Hereafter; AL-MAEDA:34 Except for those who repent before they fall into your power: in that case, know that Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.Recitation(not full prayer)in AlMasjid AlHaram Surah AlHaaqa(The Reality) Surah Qaf Eid Alfitr Turning Muslim in Texas?
A.A. wrote:
Yup
:~ Why haven't we started a second (or is it 4th or something) crusade yet? Keep in mind that "spreading mischief" also seems to include such things (as we've seen in Afghanistan) as "converting to Christianity". I really hope the Pope does not back down from his remarks. People often criticize Europe for the Crusades, but this is the kind of stuff they were up against.
"I make up quotes." -Vincent Reynolds
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Ryan Roberts wrote:
That's exactly what Mulsims believe.
BS. And even if it is, a muslim can be a citizen as the same level than a Catholic or an atheist, that is democracy 101. This mentality of 'besieged' is ridiculous and toxic.
Ryan Roberts wrote:
. To the extent that the Bahai in Iran are sometime punished for apostacy, becuase their ancestors were born Muslim
Your geographical diversion won't help you to justify insulting people you know.
The bombs are falling overhead with no sight
http://www.islam101.com/dawah/newBorn.htm[^] The Prophet (PBUH) reported that Allah said, "I created my servants in the right religion but devils made them go astray". The Prophet (PBUH) also said, "Each child is born in a state of "Fitrah", then his parents make him a Jew, Christian or a Zoroastrian, the way an animal gives birth to a normal offspring. Have you noticed any that were born mutilated?"
Ryan
"Michael Moore and Mel Gibson are the same person, except for a few sit-ups. Moore thought his cheesy political blooper reel was going to tell people how to vote. Mel thought that his little gay SM movie about his imaginary friend was going to help him get to heaven." - Penn Jillette
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K(arl) wrote:
And even if it is, a muslim can be a citizen as the same level
Not if their first loyalty is to the Umma, no, that's what breaks the whole democratic model and is what worries racist arseholes like myself and Ms Fallaci. It is typical of your thinking on the issue that you throw the beliefs of other people back at me for pointing them out. It is dangerously naive not to be concerned about demographic predictions that show a Muslim majority population in Europe within 3 generations.
K(arl) wrote:
Your geographical diversion
What? Its a clear example of fundamentalist Muslim thinking on the issue.
Ryan
"Michael Moore and Mel Gibson are the same person, except for a few sit-ups. Moore thought his cheesy political blooper reel was going to tell people how to vote. Mel thought that his little gay SM movie about his imaginary friend was going to help him get to heaven." - Penn Jillette
Ryan Roberts wrote:
Not if their first loyalty is to the Umma
The same question can be held for a Jew (is his first loyalty to Israel?), a catholic (is his first loyalty to Vatican?), an anglican (is his first loyalty to the British queen), an ultraliberal ((is his first loyalty to the US).
Ryan Roberts wrote:
you throw the beliefs of other people back at me for pointing them out.
You don't point them out, you present beliefs and tell they are of others. Have you any proof every muslim thinks as you think he thinks?
Ryan Roberts wrote:
what worries racist arseholes like myself and Ms Fallaci.
A good point, at least you begin to see the things as they are.
Ryan Roberts wrote:
It is dangerously naive not to be concerned about demographic predictions that show a Muslim majority population in Europe within 3 generations.
Yeah, let's sterilize muslims.
The bombs are falling overhead with no sight
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Under the Taliban, and sometimes in Iran. It's not ubiquitous. Rape is often punished though, as unless the victim can produce 4 male witnesses she is considered to have committed adultery which is punishable by whipping (if unmarried) or death (if married) under Sharia law.
Ryan
"Michael Moore and Mel Gibson are the same person, except for a few sit-ups. Moore thought his cheesy political blooper reel was going to tell people how to vote. Mel thought that his little gay SM movie about his imaginary friend was going to help him get to heaven." - Penn Jillette
Ryan Roberts wrote:
4 male witnesses
I could be wrong, but I remember reading somewhere it was 4 adult male Muslim witnesses. :~
Cheers, Vikram.
"whoever I am, I'm not other people" - Corinna John.
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Ryan Roberts wrote:
Not if their first loyalty is to the Umma
The same question can be held for a Jew (is his first loyalty to Israel?), a catholic (is his first loyalty to Vatican?), an anglican (is his first loyalty to the British queen), an ultraliberal ((is his first loyalty to the US).
Ryan Roberts wrote:
you throw the beliefs of other people back at me for pointing them out.
You don't point them out, you present beliefs and tell they are of others. Have you any proof every muslim thinks as you think he thinks?
Ryan Roberts wrote:
what worries racist arseholes like myself and Ms Fallaci.
A good point, at least you begin to see the things as they are.
Ryan Roberts wrote:
It is dangerously naive not to be concerned about demographic predictions that show a Muslim majority population in Europe within 3 generations.
Yeah, let's sterilize muslims.
The bombs are falling overhead with no sight
K(arl) wrote:
Have you any proof every muslim thinks as you think he thinks?
This stuff is clearly stated in their own texts. But hey, carry on believing that vague remaining notions of La Republic will tame the strongest retrograde force on earth. Being suspicous of Catholics/Protestants respectively in the 17th century was a very good idea, especialy if they got anywhere near the reigns of power. Try reading what they say[^] . Islam needs to grow the hell up before we encourage its growth within our borders. Demanding reciprocal religious freedom in Islamic countries would be a good start.
K(arl) wrote:
A good point, at least you begin to see the things as they are.
It was irony, I'm a culturalist. I have the incredibly politically incorrect belief that I am allowed to criticise other cultures than my own.
K(arl) wrote:
Yeah, let's sterilize muslims.
Way to present a reasoned argument Karl. In a similarly balanced response how about we all pretend how tolerant we are until Voltaire (another viscous Islamaphobe) and Flaubert are condemned to the same fate as the Banyan Buddahs and the Sphinx (hint, it wasn't napoleon who defaced it). Maybe it would be karmic justice for all that colonialism of our own. -- modified at 12:07 Friday 15th September, 2006
Ryan
"Michael Moore and Mel Gibson are the same person, except for a few sit-ups. Moore thought his cheesy political blooper reel was going to tell people how to vote. Mel thought that his little gay SM movie about his imaginary friend was going to help him get to heaven." - Penn Jillette
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A.A. wrote:
Yup
:~ Why haven't we started a second (or is it 4th or something) crusade yet? Keep in mind that "spreading mischief" also seems to include such things (as we've seen in Afghanistan) as "converting to Christianity". I really hope the Pope does not back down from his remarks. People often criticize Europe for the Crusades, but this is the kind of stuff they were up against.
"I make up quotes." -Vincent Reynolds
There were 9 Crusades, not including the ones in Europe.