Is mathematical possibility of 0 equal to impossible??
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But your analogy looks flawed to me. For instance, how would you select the 'winning number' when the tickets are infinite? A more accurate analogy would be something like this:
You have 3 white socks and 4 black socks in a closet. What is the probability that a sock drawn at random is blue? The answer is 0, which means the event cannot occur (i.e., impossible).PS: I hate to say this, but I agree with espeir. ;P 1 / ∞ is infinitesimal, not 0.Cheers, Vikram.
"whoever I am, I'm not other people" - Corinna John.
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But your analogy looks flawed to me. For instance, how would you select the 'winning number' when the tickets are infinite? A more accurate analogy would be something like this:
You have 3 white socks and 4 black socks in a closet. What is the probability that a sock drawn at random is blue? The answer is 0, which means the event cannot occur (i.e., impossible).PS: I hate to say this, but I agree with espeir. ;P 1 / ∞ is infinitesimal, not 0.Cheers, Vikram.
"whoever I am, I'm not other people" - Corinna John.
Vikram A Punathambekar wrote:
You have 3 white socks and 4 black socks in a closet. What is the probability that a sock drawn at random is blue? The answer is 0, which means the event cannot occur (i.e., impossible).
What if you're in a room with blue lighting? Then your odds would be 42.8%! ;P
"I make up quotes." -Vincent Reynolds
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No, probability says the odds are infinitesimal.
"I make up quotes." -Vincent Reynolds
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But your analogy looks flawed to me. For instance, how would you select the 'winning number' when the tickets are infinite? A more accurate analogy would be something like this:
You have 3 white socks and 4 black socks in a closet. What is the probability that a sock drawn at random is blue? The answer is 0, which means the event cannot occur (i.e., impossible).PS: I hate to say this, but I agree with espeir. ;P 1 / ∞ is infinitesimal, not 0.Cheers, Vikram.
"whoever I am, I'm not other people" - Corinna John.
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But your analogy looks flawed to me. For instance, how would you select the 'winning number' when the tickets are infinite? A more accurate analogy would be something like this:
You have 3 white socks and 4 black socks in a closet. What is the probability that a sock drawn at random is blue? The answer is 0, which means the event cannot occur (i.e., impossible).PS: I hate to say this, but I agree with espeir. ;P 1 / ∞ is infinitesimal, not 0.Cheers, Vikram.
"whoever I am, I'm not other people" - Corinna John.
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I've got an intersting question - see above. If you think, you have the answer, answer this. I am part of a lottery with infinite numbers. So the possibility is 1 / infinity = 0. But is it imposiblo to have the right nuber??? So, what means possibility of 0??
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But your analogy looks flawed to me. For instance, how would you select the 'winning number' when the tickets are infinite? A more accurate analogy would be something like this:
You have 3 white socks and 4 black socks in a closet. What is the probability that a sock drawn at random is blue? The answer is 0, which means the event cannot occur (i.e., impossible).PS: I hate to say this, but I agree with espeir. ;P 1 / ∞ is infinitesimal, not 0.Cheers, Vikram.
"whoever I am, I'm not other people" - Corinna John.
Vikram A Punathambekar wrote:
1 / ∞ is infinitesimal, not 0.
It's neither. It's undetermined, because infinity cannot be determined. That's sort of the whole point with infinity. You can however examine what happens when certain parameters grow towards infinity. (which has already been stated)
-- Simulcast on Crazy People's Fillings
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:-D
-- Simulcast on Crazy People's Fillings
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I've got an intersting question - see above. If you think, you have the answer, answer this. I am part of a lottery with infinite numbers. So the possibility is 1 / infinity = 0. But is it imposiblo to have the right nuber??? So, what means possibility of 0??
There are number systems where 1/infinity is 0 and others where it is an infinetesimal. Still others have multiple sizes of infinity. There are geometries with a different infinity in each direction and others where they are all the same. The answer depends on which model matches the problem you are trying to solve. The hard part in probability with small values is there is always a 100% probability that one of them will occur. So if you have an ungodly number of extremely unlikely events, you will probably never pick which one will happen, but you can be sure that one of them will.
I can imagine the sinking feeling one would have after ordering my book, only to find a laughably ridiculous theory with demented logic once the book arrives - Mark McCutcheon
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I've got an intersting question - see above. If you think, you have the answer, answer this. I am part of a lottery with infinite numbers. So the possibility is 1 / infinity = 0. But is it imposiblo to have the right nuber??? So, what means possibility of 0??
Yes, you have a small chance. However, the possibility of finding the value of infinity is better! Does that answer your question?
Regards, Tintin
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I've got an intersting question - see above. If you think, you have the answer, answer this. I am part of a lottery with infinite numbers. So the possibility is 1 / infinity = 0. But is it imposiblo to have the right nuber??? So, what means possibility of 0??
The problem is that you are trying to reason about a mathematical concept in the wrong language. You are trying to reason using essentially 'verbal' language, whereas you should be using mathematics: ∞ lim Σ 1/n = 0 n = 0
Software Zen:
delete this; -
I've got an intersting question - see above. If you think, you have the answer, answer this. I am part of a lottery with infinite numbers. So the possibility is 1 / infinity = 0. But is it imposiblo to have the right nuber??? So, what means possibility of 0??
The probability of selecting the right number in an infinite set is not equal to 0. It approaches 0. Basically, your chances are so small, that it might as well be 0, but in this case, it is not impossible, just highly improbable.
If you decide to become a software engineer, you are signing up to have a 1/2" piece of silicon tell you exactly how stupid you really are for 8 hours a day, 5 days a week Zac
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:-D
-- Simulcast on Crazy People's Fillings
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ensger wrote:
but the mathematics of posibility says
I think you mean in probability ... and no, it isn't 0. It is stated to be approaching 0 as n grows infinitely large. You can never pick any number N where 1/N = 0, but as N gets bigger and bigger, the probability decreases. The probability range for selecting a single number from a set of N numbers is (0, 1] -- that is, every decimal up to but not including 0 and everything up to and including 1. You can never have a probability of 0 in this setup.
If you decide to become a software engineer, you are signing up to have a 1/2" piece of silicon tell you exactly how stupid you really are for 8 hours a day, 5 days a week Zac
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The problem is that you are trying to reason about a mathematical concept in the wrong language. You are trying to reason using essentially 'verbal' language, whereas you should be using mathematics: ∞ lim Σ 1/n = 0 n = 0
Software Zen:
delete this;Your equation ses both a limit and a sum as a variable. Reminds me of Homer and his Pythagorean theorem quote.
"Marge, don't discourage the boy! Weasling out of things is important to learn. It's what separates us from the animals! Except the weasel." - Homer Simpson Web - Blog - RSS - Math - LinkedIn
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The problem is that you are trying to reason about a mathematical concept in the wrong language. You are trying to reason using essentially 'verbal' language, whereas you should be using mathematics: ∞ lim Σ 1/n = 0 n = 0
Software Zen:
delete this;You don't want to sum the probabilities for his calculation: lim (n->inf) 1/n = 0 However, that does not mean that your probability is 0, it just means it is very very small as n gets bigger.
If you decide to become a software engineer, you are signing up to have a 1/2" piece of silicon tell you exactly how stupid you really are for 8 hours a day, 5 days a week Zac
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The problem is that you are trying to reason about a mathematical concept in the wrong language. You are trying to reason using essentially 'verbal' language, whereas you should be using mathematics: ∞ lim Σ 1/n = 0 n = 0
Software Zen:
delete this;What is that supposed to be? This is the correct formula:
lim (1/n) = 0;
n->∞:)
________________________________________________ Tozzi is right: Gaia is getting rid of us. Personal Blog [ITA] - Tech Blog [ENG] Developing ScrewTurn Wiki 1.0 final, now in English, Italian and German.
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You don't want to sum the probabilities for his calculation: lim (n->inf) 1/n = 0 However, that does not mean that your probability is 0, it just means it is very very small as n gets bigger.
If you decide to become a software engineer, you are signing up to have a 1/2" piece of silicon tell you exactly how stupid you really are for 8 hours a day, 5 days a week Zac
Zac Howland wrote:
However, that does not mean that your probability is 0, it just means it is very very small as n gets bigger.
Agreed. The distribution is uniform between 0 and n, and the probability of a winning is exacty 1/n, if you have to bet on one single number.
________________________________________________ Tozzi is right: Gaia is getting rid of us. Personal Blog [ITA] - Tech Blog [ENG] Developing ScrewTurn Wiki 1.0 final, now in English, Italian and German.
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What is that supposed to be? This is the correct formula:
lim (1/n) = 0;
n->∞:)
________________________________________________ Tozzi is right: Gaia is getting rid of us. Personal Blog [ITA] - Tech Blog [ENG] Developing ScrewTurn Wiki 1.0 final, now in English, Italian and German.
That's what you get for typing a formula on a Friday after a conference call with idiots and no 5 mile run at noon :-O.
Software Zen:
delete this; -
That wasn't the question. The question was "But, can you have the right number?" The answer is yes, since the mere existance of a comparison between two numbers exists. What is the probability of picking that number? NEAR 0. The probability depends on how many 0's you want to look at between the decimal point and the first non-zero number in the result of 1/infinity. If you don't consider all of them, then yes, the probability is 0. If you consider the exact precision of 1/n, then there is a chance you can pick the right number. Even 0.000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 0