So what's wrong with a new look?
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I'd guess that a lot of people will buy Vista, THEN find they need a new video card/new processor. I also hate the way they move stuff around, I still use the classic start menu in XP.
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ Metal Musings - Rex and my new metal blog
Christian Graus wrote:
I also hate the way they move stuff around, I still use the classic start menu in XP.
You'll hate the control panel in vista so! I must say, the new start menu is one of my favourite things about vista. In particular, the run/search box at the end of the start menu is simply amazing. I don't think I've click on the all programs link in months and I never open the classic run box any more. Regading the hardware, see my reply to below: http://www.codeproject.com/lounge.asp?msg=1676889#xx1676889xx
Regards, Brian Dela :-)
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It requires a new computer plain and simple. I like my trusty Athlon XP 1800+ :->
As of how to accomplish this, have you ever tried Google?
Failing that try :badger::badger::badger:I have a Socket A Sempron at 1.8GHz and a GeForce FX 5200 w128MB and i can run vista fine, the only problem is with explorer's memory usage. Try using GeoShell, you can still get the glass, and some of geoshell's features dont work properley on vista but somebody will fix that sooner or later.
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Edbert P wrote:
So, let me ask you guys, what's wrong with Vista on the basis of new look only?
The $3000 in new hardware to get the new look? Because it's just a new look, but the same or worse underneath? Because all it'll do is make my advertising experience better than TV? Marc
People are just notoriously impossible. --DavidCrow
There's NO excuse for not commenting your code. -- John Simmons / outlaw programmer
People who say that they will refactor their code later to make it "good" don't understand refactoring, nor the art and craft of programming. -- Josh SmithMarc Clifton wrote:
The $3000 in new hardware to get the new look?
Well that is just complete bullshit Marc. I bought a new PC last March which cost me just over €1000 (around US$1240). The graphics card is the lowest spec in the new Nvidia 7000 range and Vista beta 2 and RC 1 run very fast (and AERO is perfect) and in some cases RC 1 is noticably faster than XP was. I also installed Vista Beta 2 on my fairly old Dell Inspiron 8600 laptop (1.5 Ghz Pentium M, 1GB ram, 64mb graphics card) and Vista ran perfectly fine and even with Aero. Haven't installed RC1 on it as the screen is broken. I'm guessing the people that are saying you need to spend loads on hardware simply haven't used it. I can't believe that those who did use Vista could have had such a different experience to myself regarding hardware and Aero.
Regards, Brian Dela :-)
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I've read that several people - including my colleagues at work - complained about Vista's new look, Aero. I'm using Windows XP at the moment and I find the new XP skin much less of an eyesore compared to the 'classic' look. I like Vista's glassy look and I'm pretty sure many home users would love it too (that is if their PCs can run it). What I hate is that XP and Vista rearranged the furnitures, or so to speak, by moving the buttons/shortcuts/items around, grouping and presenting them in "smarter" way (e.g. Control Panel, File Search) - or so they think. So, let me ask you guys, what's wrong with Vista on the basis of new look only?
"A democracy is nothing more than mob rule, where fifty-one percent of the people may take away the rights of the other forty-nine." - Thomas Jefferson "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin Edbert Sydney, Australia
The interface is almost cartoony. Its cluttered and too reliant on special effects and glitter rather than useability. General use is far more complicated than need be and although it will probably be fine for the home use with the effects and airy fairy looks, it will definately not be on the high list of needs in the business and corporate. Not clear and clean enough!
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I've read that several people - including my colleagues at work - complained about Vista's new look, Aero. I'm using Windows XP at the moment and I find the new XP skin much less of an eyesore compared to the 'classic' look. I like Vista's glassy look and I'm pretty sure many home users would love it too (that is if their PCs can run it). What I hate is that XP and Vista rearranged the furnitures, or so to speak, by moving the buttons/shortcuts/items around, grouping and presenting them in "smarter" way (e.g. Control Panel, File Search) - or so they think. So, let me ask you guys, what's wrong with Vista on the basis of new look only?
"A democracy is nothing more than mob rule, where fifty-one percent of the people may take away the rights of the other forty-nine." - Thomas Jefferson "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin Edbert Sydney, Australia
I prefer the classic look, less complicated and takes up less space.
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I prefer the classic look, less complicated and takes up less space.
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I've read that several people - including my colleagues at work - complained about Vista's new look, Aero. I'm using Windows XP at the moment and I find the new XP skin much less of an eyesore compared to the 'classic' look. I like Vista's glassy look and I'm pretty sure many home users would love it too (that is if their PCs can run it). What I hate is that XP and Vista rearranged the furnitures, or so to speak, by moving the buttons/shortcuts/items around, grouping and presenting them in "smarter" way (e.g. Control Panel, File Search) - or so they think. So, let me ask you guys, what's wrong with Vista on the basis of new look only?
"A democracy is nothing more than mob rule, where fifty-one percent of the people may take away the rights of the other forty-nine." - Thomas Jefferson "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin Edbert Sydney, Australia
What's wrong with Vista? Bloat. I use the OS to launch programs and from there I'm productive. The new look is nice, but if everything takes longer to start because the OS needs more memory and more graphics power to operate, what's the point? When MS started integrating applications into the OS (i.e. internet explorer) all they did was create huge security holes. If I choose to use Firefox, I'll have wasted resouces because I'll have an unused browser on my system. The same is true with the Windows Firewall. So I think the question should be: What does Vista provide that it's worth upgrading from XP? If they could avoid the weekly critical updates that require my XP computer to be restarted, then it would be worth it to me. Only time will tell if that's going to be the case.
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I've read that several people - including my colleagues at work - complained about Vista's new look, Aero. I'm using Windows XP at the moment and I find the new XP skin much less of an eyesore compared to the 'classic' look. I like Vista's glassy look and I'm pretty sure many home users would love it too (that is if their PCs can run it). What I hate is that XP and Vista rearranged the furnitures, or so to speak, by moving the buttons/shortcuts/items around, grouping and presenting them in "smarter" way (e.g. Control Panel, File Search) - or so they think. So, let me ask you guys, what's wrong with Vista on the basis of new look only?
"A democracy is nothing more than mob rule, where fifty-one percent of the people may take away the rights of the other forty-nine." - Thomas Jefferson "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin Edbert Sydney, Australia
For me, it is simply that MS changed where the functionality is. They (understandably) have the wrong mindset about their OSs --they should be thinking of them as tools that other people use rather than a product unto itself. If they did, then they'd quit tinkering with the layout of the same old features and get on with making the underneath code more robust and more secure and make it do more things that actually have value to users. After all, I ask you, when was the last time any of us bought a computer simply so it could be used to run the OS and nothing more?
patbob
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Everyone seems to be commenting, 'oh, I need a new computer', or, 'oh, it'll need really powerful hardware'. My experience with RC1 is that you don't. I installed RC1 on my existing home PC - a three-year-old homebrew. The only things I changed were a new hard disk (didn't want to repartition) and a new video card. I only changed the video card because the GeForce 4 Ti4800SE I had could not run Glass - and that's because it doesn't do DirectX 9 Shader Model 2.0 or some such, it simply wasn't capable. Now, I did a clean install - if you upgrade XP you may get a different experience.
Stability. What an interesting concept. -- Chris Maunder
Yes. I got RC1 and installed it on my laptop. Works, although I don't seem to have all the whizzy UI modes. I did the same upgrade HD thing so I didn't have to overwrite XP. Good thing it didn't need a new video card to run :-) It does seem to keep the CPU at 8-10% utilization constantly (XP hovers around 2-3%). Can't see how that's a good thing, especially on a laptop when running on batteries. It also seems to have a lot more (needless) CPU-hungry features enabled by default. so yes, for the average user, they will need a faster machine just to keep similar performance.
patbob
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I've read that several people - including my colleagues at work - complained about Vista's new look, Aero. I'm using Windows XP at the moment and I find the new XP skin much less of an eyesore compared to the 'classic' look. I like Vista's glassy look and I'm pretty sure many home users would love it too (that is if their PCs can run it). What I hate is that XP and Vista rearranged the furnitures, or so to speak, by moving the buttons/shortcuts/items around, grouping and presenting them in "smarter" way (e.g. Control Panel, File Search) - or so they think. So, let me ask you guys, what's wrong with Vista on the basis of new look only?
"A democracy is nothing more than mob rule, where fifty-one percent of the people may take away the rights of the other forty-nine." - Thomas Jefferson "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin Edbert Sydney, Australia
I have P4 2.4 GHz, 1 GB RAM, GeForce FX 5200 with 128 MB memory and Windows Vista beta 2 and RC1 run very fast on my PC. I think all of the you saying "buy new hardware" didn't even try it.
The Game Developer
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I have a Socket A Sempron at 1.8GHz and a GeForce FX 5200 w128MB and i can run vista fine, the only problem is with explorer's memory usage. Try using GeoShell, you can still get the glass, and some of geoshell's features dont work properley on vista but somebody will fix that sooner or later.
Hmmm, might be worth a look then if it runs on yours, only thing I don't think I have is the memory on the Graphics card but then again it runs Tomb Raider Legend and San Andreas reasonably well. Only got 512MB of RAM, really should upgrade that :sigh:
As of how to accomplish that have you ever tried Google? Failing that try :badger::badger::badger:.
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Christian Graus wrote:
I also hate the way they move stuff around, I still use the classic start menu in XP.
You'll hate the control panel in vista so! I must say, the new start menu is one of my favourite things about vista. In particular, the run/search box at the end of the start menu is simply amazing. I don't think I've click on the all programs link in months and I never open the classic run box any more. Regading the hardware, see my reply to below: http://www.codeproject.com/lounge.asp?msg=1676889#xx1676889xx
Regards, Brian Dela :-)
Brian Delahunty wrote:
You'll hate the control panel in vista so!
If you click the "Classic View" link in Vista control panel you get the old list of applet icons. And the view is sticky so there's really no issue, it's just like XP's category view/classic view switch ability.
Mike Poz
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Hmmm, might be worth a look then if it runs on yours, only thing I don't think I have is the memory on the Graphics card but then again it runs Tomb Raider Legend and San Andreas reasonably well. Only got 512MB of RAM, really should upgrade that :sigh:
As of how to accomplish that have you ever tried Google? Failing that try :badger::badger::badger:.
I only have 512 as well, if you run Office 2007 B2 TR, you will notice extreme lags, try using GeoShell instead of explorer, it kills lags, and you still get glass, the only problem is that GeoShell doesnt support the new file locations for Desktop, Documents, etc. Besides, if it runs San Andreas, i would think it would run Aero, just my thought though
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I generally like it, although I'm finding the new start menu to be a pain. Having said that, the "type a few characters and I'll find the command" thingy is useful. Other than that, I suspect the bane of our lives is going to be User Account Control (UAC). Unless Visual Studio is running with elevated privileges, registering an ATL DLL will result in E_ACCESSDENIED... X| I imagine that as more devs move over to Vista this is going to become one hot topic!
Anna :rose: Currently working mostly on: Visual Lint :cool: Anna's Place | Tears and Laughter "Be yourself - not what others think you should be" - Marcia Graesch "Anna's just a sexy-looking lesbian tart" - A friend, trying to wind me up. It didn't work.
Anna-Jayne Metcalfe wrote:
Other than that, I suspect the bane of our lives is going to be User Account Control (UAC).
According to Microsoft that can be disabled, just go here Windows Vista User Account Control Step by Step Guide[^] and find the area "Disable Admin Approval Mode". The instructions are fairly straightforward. This will give you XP style administrator level ability for such things.
Mike Poz
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I only have 512 as well, if you run Office 2007 B2 TR, you will notice extreme lags, try using GeoShell instead of explorer, it kills lags, and you still get glass, the only problem is that GeoShell doesnt support the new file locations for Desktop, Documents, etc. Besides, if it runs San Andreas, i would think it would run Aero, just my thought though
Just decided, sod Vista, tried to download it using the direct link & Free Download Manager, computer locked up. Tried using the download manager - download locked up trying to allocate space (didn't do anything else). Went back to try and get the link again - I've been allocated too many keys, I know that, I've written them down, all I want is the sodding link! :mad:
As of how to accomplish that have you ever tried Google? Failing that try :badger::badger::badger:.
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Anna-Jayne Metcalfe wrote:
Other than that, I suspect the bane of our lives is going to be User Account Control (UAC).
According to Microsoft that can be disabled, just go here Windows Vista User Account Control Step by Step Guide[^] and find the area "Disable Admin Approval Mode". The instructions are fairly straightforward. This will give you XP style administrator level ability for such things.
Mike Poz
Mike Poz wrote:
Anna-Jayne Metcalfe wrote: Other than that, I suspect the bane of our lives is going to be User Account Control (UAC). According to Microsoft that can be disabled, just go here Windows Vista User Account Control Step by Step Guide[^] and find the area "Disable Admin Approval Mode". The instructions are fairly straightforward. This will give you XP style administrator level ability for such things.
And just as instead of making the code work as a limited user, the standard developer solution to security hassles in NT/2K/XP has been 'run as an administrator', the vista solution will be 'turn off UAC'. Actual development practice will remain unchanged, and wide open user permissions will result in plenty of room for malware writers to hide.
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I've read that several people - including my colleagues at work - complained about Vista's new look, Aero. I'm using Windows XP at the moment and I find the new XP skin much less of an eyesore compared to the 'classic' look. I like Vista's glassy look and I'm pretty sure many home users would love it too (that is if their PCs can run it). What I hate is that XP and Vista rearranged the furnitures, or so to speak, by moving the buttons/shortcuts/items around, grouping and presenting them in "smarter" way (e.g. Control Panel, File Search) - or so they think. So, let me ask you guys, what's wrong with Vista on the basis of new look only?
"A democracy is nothing more than mob rule, where fifty-one percent of the people may take away the rights of the other forty-nine." - Thomas Jefferson "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin Edbert Sydney, Australia
My showstopper are all the nag screens. I have never seen so many message dialogs per minute in my life! Almost whenever I do something I am told Windows need permission to continue. Can I turn this madness off somewhere?
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Mike Poz wrote:
Anna-Jayne Metcalfe wrote: Other than that, I suspect the bane of our lives is going to be User Account Control (UAC). According to Microsoft that can be disabled, just go here Windows Vista User Account Control Step by Step Guide[^] and find the area "Disable Admin Approval Mode". The instructions are fairly straightforward. This will give you XP style administrator level ability for such things.
And just as instead of making the code work as a limited user, the standard developer solution to security hassles in NT/2K/XP has been 'run as an administrator', the vista solution will be 'turn off UAC'. Actual development practice will remain unchanged, and wide open user permissions will result in plenty of room for malware writers to hide.
dan neely wrote:
And just as instead of making the code work as a limited user, the standard developer solution to security hassles in NT/2K/XP has been 'run as an administrator', the vista solution will be 'turn off UAC'. Actual development practice will remain unchanged, and wide open user permissions will result in plenty of room for malware writers to hide.
Okay perhaps I'm not clear on what you're saying but if I have it right you think that by disabling UAC you open up the computer for all user levels (administrator through user level)? If that's what you are concerned about then you're mistaken. By disabling UAC on the system, in an administrator level account you get XP style administrator level ability. This doesn't give limited users full administrator level ability, it just gives them XP style limited user level ability. So in addition to disabling on UAC, in a limited user account, you'll still have to do the "run as..." if you want to do any system level changes while logged in as limited user. UAC is sort of a "are you sure you want to do this" kind of thing for Administrators where they're installing something they believe to be harmless and, basically user level, but then what they're installing is trying to alter things at the system level. You know, altering, adding, and deleting HKLM values, overwriting system level files, etc. Because of the way bad guys have been attacking windows left and right and kind hearted but not educated enough developers do things with system level files and settings, due Windows XP and before's architecture, it's just a new system level way of trying to prevent the accidental install of something REALLY bad without direct administrator confirmation. If you need to register a DLL consistantly as a developer, then you keep an elevated CMD window open and do it there. Then use that DLL in the non-elevated arena to make sure it works properly there. As with all things, once you understand how it works, you figure out the angles and work around them. -- modified at 17:32 Wednesday 20th September, 2006 Just clarified some things...
Mike Poz
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I generally like it, although I'm finding the new start menu to be a pain. Having said that, the "type a few characters and I'll find the command" thingy is useful. Other than that, I suspect the bane of our lives is going to be User Account Control (UAC). Unless Visual Studio is running with elevated privileges, registering an ATL DLL will result in E_ACCESSDENIED... X| I imagine that as more devs move over to Vista this is going to become one hot topic!
Anna :rose: Currently working mostly on: Visual Lint :cool: Anna's Place | Tears and Laughter "Be yourself - not what others think you should be" - Marcia Graesch "Anna's just a sexy-looking lesbian tart" - A friend, trying to wind me up. It didn't work.
Anna-Jayne Metcalfe wrote:
the bane of our lives is going to be User Account Control (UAC)
I can imagine home users and network admins at some companies giving users full privilege already...
"A democracy is nothing more than mob rule, where fifty-one percent of the people may take away the rights of the other forty-nine." - Thomas Jefferson "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin Edbert Sydney, Australia
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My showstopper are all the nag screens. I have never seen so many message dialogs per minute in my life! Almost whenever I do something I am told Windows need permission to continue. Can I turn this madness off somewhere?
I think Anna-Jayne and Mike has the answer[^] for that already.
"A democracy is nothing more than mob rule, where fifty-one percent of the people may take away the rights of the other forty-nine." - Thomas Jefferson "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin Edbert Sydney, Australia