I like Microsoft, why not?
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BorysBe wrote:
Is anyone creating good games for Linux using OpenGL?
It's called supply and demand. If Linux were to become easy enough to replace Windows and become a prominent OS for the average Joe, people surely would make more games on Linux. As far as OpenGL on Windows goes, as long as I can push an extra 10 or so FPS on nVidia cards for practically the same thing compared to using DX (watch this change on Vista :laugh:), and as long as my API of choice stays platform independent so I'm not locked into one company's marketing efforts, I still think OGL is a nice/wise choice.
Jeremy Falcon A multithreaded, OpenGL-enabled application.[^]
You get my 5 for both points Jeremy. :rose: I used OpenGL a far bit when I was working in the marine sector, and I'd still say that for the majority of 3D applications it's the way to go. The only respect I found it falling short was the lack of with a decent OO framework to wrap it (Fahrenheit never materialised, I seem to remember).
Anna :rose: Currently working mostly on: Visual Lint :cool: Anna's Place | Tears and Laughter "Be yourself - not what others think you should be" - Marcia Graesch "Anna's just a sexy-looking lesbian tart" - A friend, trying to wind me up. It didn't work.
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You get my 5 for both points Jeremy. :rose: I used OpenGL a far bit when I was working in the marine sector, and I'd still say that for the majority of 3D applications it's the way to go. The only respect I found it falling short was the lack of with a decent OO framework to wrap it (Fahrenheit never materialised, I seem to remember).
Anna :rose: Currently working mostly on: Visual Lint :cool: Anna's Place | Tears and Laughter "Be yourself - not what others think you should be" - Marcia Graesch "Anna's just a sexy-looking lesbian tart" - A friend, trying to wind me up. It didn't work.
Anna-Jayne Metcalfe wrote:
You get my 5 for both points Jeremy.
Thanks. I'm not used to getting 5s, so you'll have to pardon me a moment while I freak out. ;P
Anna-Jayne Metcalfe wrote:
The only respect I found it falling short was the lack of with a decent OO framework to wrap it (Fahrenheit never materialised, I seem to remember).
Yeah I think that is both a pro and a con depending on how you look at it. The reason I've been told OGL was done that way was to allow it to run on as many platforms as possible because not all devices support C++. There have been a few free OGL C++ wrappers floating around on the net btw, if you're interested in going that route.
Jeremy Falcon A multithreaded, OpenGL-enabled application.[^]
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Anna-Jayne Metcalfe wrote:
You get my 5 for both points Jeremy.
Thanks. I'm not used to getting 5s, so you'll have to pardon me a moment while I freak out. ;P
Anna-Jayne Metcalfe wrote:
The only respect I found it falling short was the lack of with a decent OO framework to wrap it (Fahrenheit never materialised, I seem to remember).
Yeah I think that is both a pro and a con depending on how you look at it. The reason I've been told OGL was done that way was to allow it to run on as many platforms as possible because not all devices support C++. There have been a few free OGL C++ wrappers floating around on the net btw, if you're interested in going that route.
Jeremy Falcon A multithreaded, OpenGL-enabled application.[^]
Jeremy Falcon wrote:
Thanks. I'm not used to getting 5s, so you'll have to pardon me a moment while I freak out.
Especially from me! ;P
Jeremy Falcon wrote:
Yeah I think that is both a pro and a con depending on how you look at it. The reason I've been told OGL was done that way was to allow it to run on as many platforms as possible because not all devices support C++.
True...I was thinking more of a wrapper than any wish for the base API to have been implemented differently. In the work I was doing at the time (subsea acoustic navigation) it would have been rather useful! Unfortunately the company didn't persue the technology (sticking to 2D views instead) so the only thing we took from GL was its dimensional and vertex model.
Jeremy Falcon wrote:
There have been a few free OGL C++ wrappers floating around on the net btw, if you're interested in going that route.
I imagine there are by now...shame I'm not working on anything that would let me use them right now!! :doh: (unless of course you can think of a way of visualising lint warnings or resource ID clashes in 3D...)
Anna :rose: Currently working mostly on: Visual Lint :cool: Anna's Place | Tears and Laughter "Be yourself - not what others think you should be" - Marcia Graesch "Anna's just a sexy-looking lesbian tart" - A friend, trying to wind me up. It didn't work.
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BorysBe wrote:
Microsoft is not cheap - you know
It's not cheap compared to free but historically it has been cheap or similarly priced compared to commercial alternatives. MS tends to look expensive once it's become market leader. then everyone forgets how expensive everything used to be, eg., Office software pre-Windows.
Kevin
...and this is because Microsoft's competition believes that Microsoft won on price or through marketing or bundling with hardware and that therefore they should simply undercut or outmarket or outbundle Microsoft and they will win. None of these are true. Price, marketing and availability were factors, but the major ones were functionality, usability, and performance. Office certainly ticks the functionality box. By comparison with OpenOffice, Microsoft Office is a speed demon. In usability terms, Microsoft themselves have found that the main problem was simply that the features were badly organised and undiscoverable, so that a lot of their feature requests were for features that were actually present but that the requester hadn't found. It's a common claim that users only use 5% or 10% - some small fraction - of Office's feature set, and therefore that a smaller product costing less could easily take market share from Microsoft. In practice it appears that while an individual user might only use a low percentage of the features, taken as a whole, a user population will use a much greater percentage. I suspect that users might also find it easier to learn a new feature of a product they're already familiar with, rather than having to learn a whole new product. In fact the only significant case I can think of where a free or lower-cost product has taken market share away from Microsoft is Firefox - and that's where Microsoft have sat idle for five years, both products are free, facilities exist for converting the user's saved data between formats (basically just bookmarks and cookies), almost all of what users do is interaction with other computers, the network protocols and formats used are the same - while pages may look different - sometimes radically different - in a different browser, they're typically at least legible, and IE has gained a bad security reputation. In comparison Windows XP's usage share - on the desktop - is still increasing, while Linux is stuck at under 0.5% and has been for years (according to statistics collected from web site user agent tracking, so if the browser doesn't report the OS it will end up as 'unknown' but the stats I'm looking at don't give 'unknown' and it looks like these have been excluded from the percentages). Microsoft have also reported significant gains in revenue from server software over the last few years - it's up to you to decide whether this indicates growth of the market or growth in Microsoft's share of the market (or, of course, both).
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Jeremy Falcon wrote:
Thanks. I'm not used to getting 5s, so you'll have to pardon me a moment while I freak out.
Especially from me! ;P
Jeremy Falcon wrote:
Yeah I think that is both a pro and a con depending on how you look at it. The reason I've been told OGL was done that way was to allow it to run on as many platforms as possible because not all devices support C++.
True...I was thinking more of a wrapper than any wish for the base API to have been implemented differently. In the work I was doing at the time (subsea acoustic navigation) it would have been rather useful! Unfortunately the company didn't persue the technology (sticking to 2D views instead) so the only thing we took from GL was its dimensional and vertex model.
Jeremy Falcon wrote:
There have been a few free OGL C++ wrappers floating around on the net btw, if you're interested in going that route.
I imagine there are by now...shame I'm not working on anything that would let me use them right now!! :doh: (unless of course you can think of a way of visualising lint warnings or resource ID clashes in 3D...)
Anna :rose: Currently working mostly on: Visual Lint :cool: Anna's Place | Tears and Laughter "Be yourself - not what others think you should be" - Marcia Graesch "Anna's just a sexy-looking lesbian tart" - A friend, trying to wind me up. It didn't work.
Anna-Jayne Metcalfe wrote:
(unless of course you can think of a way of visualising lint warnings or resource ID clashes in 3D...)
Visualize three figures... one standing with eyes covered, one with ears covered and one with mouth covered... When resource issues are detected they start poking each other in the eyes, bopping each other on the head, etc. :)
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
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You get my 5 for both points Jeremy. :rose: I used OpenGL a far bit when I was working in the marine sector, and I'd still say that for the majority of 3D applications it's the way to go. The only respect I found it falling short was the lack of with a decent OO framework to wrap it (Fahrenheit never materialised, I seem to remember).
Anna :rose: Currently working mostly on: Visual Lint :cool: Anna's Place | Tears and Laughter "Be yourself - not what others think you should be" - Marcia Graesch "Anna's just a sexy-looking lesbian tart" - A friend, trying to wind me up. It didn't work.
Anna-Jayne Metcalfe wrote:
The only respect I found it falling short was the lack of with a decent OO framework to wrap it (Fahrenheit never materialised, I seem to remember).
don't go with a wrapper like Jeremy said if you ever get back into it. Go with a scene graph manager. Get some value added for the OO conversion. :) I like OpenSceneGraph, but there are others, if you ever need it, ask. :)
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
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Anna-Jayne Metcalfe wrote:
You get my 5 for both points Jeremy.
Thanks. I'm not used to getting 5s, so you'll have to pardon me a moment while I freak out. ;P
Anna-Jayne Metcalfe wrote:
The only respect I found it falling short was the lack of with a decent OO framework to wrap it (Fahrenheit never materialised, I seem to remember).
Yeah I think that is both a pro and a con depending on how you look at it. The reason I've been told OGL was done that way was to allow it to run on as many platforms as possible because not all devices support C++. There have been a few free OGL C++ wrappers floating around on the net btw, if you're interested in going that route.
Jeremy Falcon A multithreaded, OpenGL-enabled application.[^]
Jeremy Falcon wrote:
Thanks. I'm not used to getting 5s, so you'll have to pardon me a moment while I freak out
you'd better freak out some more... ;) I just had a break to swing through here. :-D
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
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...and this is because Microsoft's competition believes that Microsoft won on price or through marketing or bundling with hardware and that therefore they should simply undercut or outmarket or outbundle Microsoft and they will win. None of these are true. Price, marketing and availability were factors, but the major ones were functionality, usability, and performance. Office certainly ticks the functionality box. By comparison with OpenOffice, Microsoft Office is a speed demon. In usability terms, Microsoft themselves have found that the main problem was simply that the features were badly organised and undiscoverable, so that a lot of their feature requests were for features that were actually present but that the requester hadn't found. It's a common claim that users only use 5% or 10% - some small fraction - of Office's feature set, and therefore that a smaller product costing less could easily take market share from Microsoft. In practice it appears that while an individual user might only use a low percentage of the features, taken as a whole, a user population will use a much greater percentage. I suspect that users might also find it easier to learn a new feature of a product they're already familiar with, rather than having to learn a whole new product. In fact the only significant case I can think of where a free or lower-cost product has taken market share away from Microsoft is Firefox - and that's where Microsoft have sat idle for five years, both products are free, facilities exist for converting the user's saved data between formats (basically just bookmarks and cookies), almost all of what users do is interaction with other computers, the network protocols and formats used are the same - while pages may look different - sometimes radically different - in a different browser, they're typically at least legible, and IE has gained a bad security reputation. In comparison Windows XP's usage share - on the desktop - is still increasing, while Linux is stuck at under 0.5% and has been for years (according to statistics collected from web site user agent tracking, so if the browser doesn't report the OS it will end up as 'unknown' but the stats I'm looking at don't give 'unknown' and it looks like these have been excluded from the percentages). Microsoft have also reported significant gains in revenue from server software over the last few years - it's up to you to decide whether this indicates growth of the market or growth in Microsoft's share of the market (or, of course, both).
Mike Dimmick wrote:
In comparison Windows XP's usage share - on the desktop - is still increasing, while Linux is stuck at under 0.5% and has been for years (according to statistics collected from web site user agent tracking
At whose expense though? IF linux is standing still, are they gaining at the expense of apple, proprietary *nix, or older versions of windows?
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Jeremy Falcon wrote:
Thanks. I'm not used to getting 5s, so you'll have to pardon me a moment while I freak out.
Especially from me! ;P
Jeremy Falcon wrote:
Yeah I think that is both a pro and a con depending on how you look at it. The reason I've been told OGL was done that way was to allow it to run on as many platforms as possible because not all devices support C++.
True...I was thinking more of a wrapper than any wish for the base API to have been implemented differently. In the work I was doing at the time (subsea acoustic navigation) it would have been rather useful! Unfortunately the company didn't persue the technology (sticking to 2D views instead) so the only thing we took from GL was its dimensional and vertex model.
Jeremy Falcon wrote:
There have been a few free OGL C++ wrappers floating around on the net btw, if you're interested in going that route.
I imagine there are by now...shame I'm not working on anything that would let me use them right now!! :doh: (unless of course you can think of a way of visualising lint warnings or resource ID clashes in 3D...)
Anna :rose: Currently working mostly on: Visual Lint :cool: Anna's Place | Tears and Laughter "Be yourself - not what others think you should be" - Marcia Graesch "Anna's just a sexy-looking lesbian tart" - A friend, trying to wind me up. It didn't work.
Anna-Jayne Metcalfe wrote:
Especially from me!
LMAO
Anna-Jayne Metcalfe wrote:
(unless of course you can think of a way of visualising lint warnings or resource ID clashes in 3D...)
The only thing I can think of is annoying, but it would be one way to get the user's attention. :laugh:
Jeremy Falcon A multithreaded, OpenGL-enabled application.[^]
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Mike Dimmick wrote:
In comparison Windows XP's usage share - on the desktop - is still increasing, while Linux is stuck at under 0.5% and has been for years (according to statistics collected from web site user agent tracking
At whose expense though? IF linux is standing still, are they gaining at the expense of apple, proprietary *nix, or older versions of windows?
Oh, older versions of Windows, definitely. The headline figure at http://marketshare.hitslink.com/report.aspx?qprid=5[^] for MacOS is falling but it appears that Intel Macs aren't included in this figure - between April and August 'MacOS' fell by 0.62% while 'MacIntel' grew by 0.46%. The difference (0.18%) can perhaps be explained by a differential increase of PC sales vs. Mac sales, or could just be variation in the sample between months (note that NT 4.0 rose by 0.09% which you would expect to be an anomaly, or a bug in OS detection). In the same period Windows 2000 fell by 1.14% (nearly 15% of its April share) and Windows 98 by 1.20% (33% of its share). I'm surprised that the oft-derided Windows ME only fell by 0.34% (24% of share). These shifts, for Windows 2000 and 98 at least, are larger than the entire Linux usage share. Proprietary *nix is genuinely insignificant in the statistics - Windows 95, Windows CE (on handhelds and mobiles), the PSP and even Steve Wozniak's Hiptop appear above SunOS (0.01%). This doesn't mean those operating systems aren't being used - it just means that they're not being used for web browsing (or if they are, they're not being reported or detected properly). Mobile Internet? If Windows 95 is above Windows CE, I don't think Mobile Internet is of much significance - assuming that the rest of the mobiles don't fall into the eliminated 'unknown' or that the statistics aren't eliminated due to gateway/proxy machines, that represent all the mobiles on a network, having only a single public IPv4 address, and the statistics filter out duplicate addresses. Windows Vista's major competitor is not Linux. It's Windows XP.
Stability. What an interesting concept. -- Chris Maunder
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Anna-Jayne Metcalfe wrote:
The only respect I found it falling short was the lack of with a decent OO framework to wrap it (Fahrenheit never materialised, I seem to remember).
don't go with a wrapper like Jeremy said if you ever get back into it. Go with a scene graph manager. Get some value added for the OO conversion. :) I like OpenSceneGraph, but there are others, if you ever need it, ask. :)
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
Jeffry J. Brickley wrote:
don't go with a wrapper like Jeremy said if you ever get back into it.
Well, the idea was it didn't have to be procedural if you didn't want it to be yo.
Jeremy Falcon A multithreaded, OpenGL-enabled application.[^]
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Jeremy Falcon wrote:
Thanks. I'm not used to getting 5s, so you'll have to pardon me a moment while I freak out
you'd better freak out some more... ;) I just had a break to swing through here. :-D
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
Jeffry J. Brickley wrote:
you'd better freak out some more...
Ok, I'm in async mode right now, so I'll freak out later about it.
Jeremy Falcon A multithreaded, OpenGL-enabled application.[^]
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You forgot google, didn't you? free software does not mean the developers are not going to be paid. just that the money is going to come from somewhere else. And it takes smart people to figure out from where. Enterprise be-spoke solutions and services are never going to be free, now the customer support, but software that comes with no support and possible funded by adverts can easily be made free.
Anand Vivek Srivastava wrote:
And it takes smart people to figure out from where.
Trust me, it doesn't take brains. All it takes is a different view. The US government has been open source internally for decades. it hasn't gone bancrupt yet. :laugh: Think service, not product.
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
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Jeffry J. Brickley wrote:
don't go with a wrapper like Jeremy said if you ever get back into it.
Well, the idea was it didn't have to be procedural if you didn't want it to be yo.
Jeremy Falcon A multithreaded, OpenGL-enabled application.[^]
Jeremy Falcon wrote:
the idea was it didn't have to be procedural if you didn't want it to be
True, and that is always the case. :) I was just saying get a little more benefit for your effort. :D Scene Graphs are worth the time to put together or integrate. Spatial optimized culling. oooohhhh it's that tingle again. :laugh:
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)