People actually do fall for those Nigerian scams!
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Mitchel Haas wrote:
the tragedy in Colorado
Yeah... that's grim. I don't know that i'd care to speculate on what his mindset was at this point though. But sure enough, the local news is promising more "disturbing details". At least i recorded it on DVR, and can skip past to the weather report if it amounts to no more than pure ghoulish speculation... which it probably will. :sigh:
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Shog9 wrote:
the local news is promising more "disturbing details
The news nowadays is just another form of pornography.
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ Metal Musings - Rex and my new metal blog
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I think there's some truth to this, which brings up another topic for debate. Do all those porn sites, especially those that contain young adults, and possibly children, contribute to these types of people thinking that this is not abnormal behavior, and that many people actually do partake of this kind of activity? I've heard of studies indicating there's no connection, but that's hard for me to believe. Mitch
Mitchel Haas wrote:
Do all those porn sites, especially those that contain young adults, and possibly children,
I assume that none of us have been surfing for kiddie pron. I doubt much of it exists at the level of websites, certainly whenever there's a bust, it appears to be of a mailing list, not a site. A site has to collect money to be worth running. That creates a trail. I doubt you could google for kiddie porn and find much. Not that I've tried, obviously.
Mitchel Haas wrote:
contribute to these types of people thinking that this is not abnormal behavior,
I doubt it. You can show me all the gay porn you like ( well, I'd prefer you didn't ), and I guarentee you it won't change my preference. I'm sure there needs to be something wrong to start with, for people to even look into that sort of thing. Of course, if they then DO interfere with a child, it's likely to be something that gets worse and worse.
Mitchel Haas wrote:
I've heard of studies indicating there's no connection, but that's hard for me to believe.
How does one do a study, except through talking to people already in jail ? One surely cannot show people illegal images and ask if it gives them illegal urges ? I'd say any study is bogus and limited, but I'd still say that I would doubt the correlation. You and I don't have those urges, and we're sure not going to look for those sort of images, the idea is sickening. People who are looking for them, already have something wrong with them mentally.
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ Metal Musings - Rex and my new metal blog
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I think there's some truth to this, which brings up another topic for debate. Do all those porn sites, especially those that contain young adults, and possibly children, contribute to these types of people thinking that this is not abnormal behavior, and that many people actually do partake of this kind of activity? I've heard of studies indicating there's no connection, but that's hard for me to believe. Mitch
Mitchel Haas wrote:
Do all those porn sites, especially those that contain young adults, and possibly children, contribute to these types of people thinking that this is not abnormal behavior, and that many people actually do partake of this kind of activity?
I think, fundamentally, what is missing is a sense of morality. Morality should not be defined by what *appears* to be appropriate in society, but by a deeper inner sense that is independent of society. There will always be immoral elements of society, but if we have our own sense of morality, then we can be less influenced by society. And there will always be people who have no personal sense of morality, and these people need our help.
Mitchel Haas wrote:
I've heard of studies indicating there's no connection, but that's hard for me to believe.
I think any study that "proves" that immoral social attitudes do not result in individual immoral behaviors is, frankly, flawed. There's been numerous studies showing that children who watch violence on TV are more violent. The mantra had my girlfriend's daycare (a mainstream daycare, BTW) from all the teachers is "I hate the TV" because they have to deal with the daily behavioral issues resulting from children (2-5 year olds) exhibit from imitating what they see on TV. Is imitation restricted to the domain of children? Certainly not. Most adults are children, just bigger. Marc
People are just notoriously impossible. --DavidCrow
There's NO excuse for not commenting your code. -- John Simmons / outlaw programmer
People who say that they will refactor their code later to make it "good" don't understand refactoring, nor the art and craft of programming. -- Josh Smith -
Mitchel Haas wrote:
Do all those porn sites, especially those that contain young adults, and possibly children, contribute to these types of people thinking that this is not abnormal behavior, and that many people actually do partake of this kind of activity?
I think, fundamentally, what is missing is a sense of morality. Morality should not be defined by what *appears* to be appropriate in society, but by a deeper inner sense that is independent of society. There will always be immoral elements of society, but if we have our own sense of morality, then we can be less influenced by society. And there will always be people who have no personal sense of morality, and these people need our help.
Mitchel Haas wrote:
I've heard of studies indicating there's no connection, but that's hard for me to believe.
I think any study that "proves" that immoral social attitudes do not result in individual immoral behaviors is, frankly, flawed. There's been numerous studies showing that children who watch violence on TV are more violent. The mantra had my girlfriend's daycare (a mainstream daycare, BTW) from all the teachers is "I hate the TV" because they have to deal with the daily behavioral issues resulting from children (2-5 year olds) exhibit from imitating what they see on TV. Is imitation restricted to the domain of children? Certainly not. Most adults are children, just bigger. Marc
People are just notoriously impossible. --DavidCrow
There's NO excuse for not commenting your code. -- John Simmons / outlaw programmer
People who say that they will refactor their code later to make it "good" don't understand refactoring, nor the art and craft of programming. -- Josh SmithMarc Clifton wrote:
I think, fundamentally, what is missing is a sense of morality.
Yeah, I would tend to agree. The overall idea that there's a right thing to do is not that popular these days.
Marc Clifton wrote:
I think any study that "proves" that immoral social attitudes do not result in individual immoral behaviors is, frankly, flawed.
You're probably right, certainly I agree with the TV thing, I've seen it in my son. But, while attitudes towards sex in general may be formed by the media, I don't think that our orientation can be changed by the media ( although I think for girls it can at least a bit, sometimes, I've noticed that womens media sells bisexuality pretty hard ). So, I think the media can have a very peverse effect - it can make people prone to more immoral behaviour bolder as a result of the internet giving them the chance to affirm that others have the same attitude, which can only cause atrophy in society as a whole. But, I think this will result in more irresponsible behaviour that's in line with a person's orientation, it won't change it.
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ Metal Musings - Rex and my new metal blog
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Agreed. I work with kids all the time (I run a youth group at my church), and some of the clothes the little ones are wearing just make me shake my head in disbelief. And it's not as if the kids can do anything about it, it's all up to the parents. Appropriate clothes are out there if they look hard enough...
Ryan Binns wrote:
And it's not as if the kids can do anything about it, it's all up to the parents. Appropriate clothes are out there if they look hard enough...
Not quite Ryan. After a year at preschool or kindergarten the kids already know what brands and styles they want to wear. And they go out of their way to get it.
Michael Martin Australia "I controlled my laughter and simple said "No,I am very busy,so I can't write any code for you". The moment they heard this all the smiling face turned into a sad looking face and one of them farted. So I had to leave the place as soon as possible." - Mr.Prakash 24/04/2004
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Ryan Binns wrote:
And it's not as if the kids can do anything about it, it's all up to the parents. Appropriate clothes are out there if they look hard enough...
Not quite Ryan. After a year at preschool or kindergarten the kids already know what brands and styles they want to wear. And they go out of their way to get it.
Michael Martin Australia "I controlled my laughter and simple said "No,I am very busy,so I can't write any code for you". The moment they heard this all the smiling face turned into a sad looking face and one of them farted. So I had to leave the place as soon as possible." - Mr.Prakash 24/04/2004
Well, that's true, but you could always give them the option of going nekkid and see what they do
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ Metal Musings - Rex and my new metal blog
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Ryan Binns wrote:
And it's not as if the kids can do anything about it, it's all up to the parents. Appropriate clothes are out there if they look hard enough...
Not quite Ryan. After a year at preschool or kindergarten the kids already know what brands and styles they want to wear. And they go out of their way to get it.
Michael Martin Australia "I controlled my laughter and simple said "No,I am very busy,so I can't write any code for you". The moment they heard this all the smiling face turned into a sad looking face and one of them farted. So I had to leave the place as soon as possible." - Mr.Prakash 24/04/2004
Michael Martin wrote:
After a year at preschool or kindergarten the kids already know what brands and styles they want to wear. And they go out of their way to get it.
Sure, but it's still up to the parents to decide what to buy for them.
Ryan
"Punctuality is only a virtue for those who aren't smart enough to think of good excuses for being late" John Nichol "Point Of Impact"
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Marc Clifton wrote:
I think, fundamentally, what is missing is a sense of morality.
Yeah, I would tend to agree. The overall idea that there's a right thing to do is not that popular these days.
Marc Clifton wrote:
I think any study that "proves" that immoral social attitudes do not result in individual immoral behaviors is, frankly, flawed.
You're probably right, certainly I agree with the TV thing, I've seen it in my son. But, while attitudes towards sex in general may be formed by the media, I don't think that our orientation can be changed by the media ( although I think for girls it can at least a bit, sometimes, I've noticed that womens media sells bisexuality pretty hard ). So, I think the media can have a very peverse effect - it can make people prone to more immoral behaviour bolder as a result of the internet giving them the chance to affirm that others have the same attitude, which can only cause atrophy in society as a whole. But, I think this will result in more irresponsible behaviour that's in line with a person's orientation, it won't change it.
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ Metal Musings - Rex and my new metal blog
Christian Graus wrote:
attitudes towards sex in general may be formed by the media
they are always trying hard...have you heard of the new Paris Hilton video, eerily similar to those teacher-student molestation scandals... It's one thing that they are making money that way, but it's the public that is responsible for choosing what they watch and it seems like the choice is not so obvious to most :( Roswell
"Angelinos -- excuse me. There will be civility today."
Antonio VillaRaigosa
City Mayor, Los Angeles, CA -
Christian Graus wrote:
attitudes towards sex in general may be formed by the media
they are always trying hard...have you heard of the new Paris Hilton video, eerily similar to those teacher-student molestation scandals... It's one thing that they are making money that way, but it's the public that is responsible for choosing what they watch and it seems like the choice is not so obvious to most :( Roswell
"Angelinos -- excuse me. There will be civility today."
Antonio VillaRaigosa
City Mayor, Los Angeles, CARoswellNX wrote:
have you heard of the new Paris Hilton video,
No, that's the sort of thing I'm not likely to hear about... The only impact Paris has had on my life of late is when we went on a cruise, I saw she has her own perfume, and I suggested to my wife if it really makes you smell like her, it must smell of old mens hands.
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ Metal Musings - Rex and my new metal blog
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Marc Clifton wrote:
I think, fundamentally, what is missing is a sense of morality.
Yeah, I would tend to agree. The overall idea that there's a right thing to do is not that popular these days.
Marc Clifton wrote:
I think any study that "proves" that immoral social attitudes do not result in individual immoral behaviors is, frankly, flawed.
You're probably right, certainly I agree with the TV thing, I've seen it in my son. But, while attitudes towards sex in general may be formed by the media, I don't think that our orientation can be changed by the media ( although I think for girls it can at least a bit, sometimes, I've noticed that womens media sells bisexuality pretty hard ). So, I think the media can have a very peverse effect - it can make people prone to more immoral behaviour bolder as a result of the internet giving them the chance to affirm that others have the same attitude, which can only cause atrophy in society as a whole. But, I think this will result in more irresponsible behaviour that's in line with a person's orientation, it won't change it.
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ Metal Musings - Rex and my new metal blog
There are no decent examples around, of what makes people decent these days. The word decency is hardly ever babndd about these days. The media has alot to do with the way society has evolved. Evolution in this case is not a good thing. It makes me sick when I see all these "Real life" televison programme, where these contestants "act" as outrageous as they can be just to get "noticed" and win. There is also a constant reference to sex, when trying to sell products. A world obsessed with Celebritism(if thats how you spell it) Society is more caught up with looking good and getting rich, that it doesn't take time to reflect on itself. All of us here are probably guilty of all the issues we are speaking of here, but instead of doing something about it, we vent our frustration by complaining about it. How many of us complain about the content of TV? Yet we still watch TV. How many of complain about Kids Clothing? Yet the we still buy them. Complain about the results of consumerism, yet still consume. It is the constant "pressure" to get rich, that drives the criminals out there, the pressure derived from the media and other organisations out there. I could go on and on about this, but it's friday morning, and this subject is way too deep for a friday!!
"a fool will not learn from a wise man, but a wise man will learn from a fool" "It is hard to fail, but it is worse never to have tried to succeed." - Theodore Roosevelt "Success is going from failure to failure without losing your enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill
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I think one of the contributors could be kids clothing. While do so many pairs of shorts/trousers for young girls (even 2/3 year olds) have things like "Angel" printed on across their bottoms in glittery writing? Why is attention drawn to this area of a child? Even on 12 year olds it just seems wrong - but on toddlers? Part of me would love my next child to be a daughter, but part of me is terrified of the possibility. In today's fashion crazy world very young kids walk around in tank tops and miniskirts, on the kids clothing catalogues they pout with their makeup smeared faces and seem to be trying to convey the message of being sexy. What ever happened to little girls in shorts and normal t-shirts having fun learning about mud and nature alongside the boys?
A mum and loving it! My (very young) blog[^]
Until recently, you could buy thongs for 7 year old girls in our local supermarket. They also used to sell trousers for toddlers with the word SEXY on the bum. Unbelievable. I shudder to think what my daughter will be wanting to weat in 10 years time (she's 2). Maybe trends will cycle round to full length skirts (like the girls wore when I was at school in the mid-80s) - currently the girls I see walking to school have skirts that are VERY short. In fact, the local secondary school has introduced a new school uniform policy this term that says girls skirts have to come down to the knees - however, it appears that many girls smuggle in a different (shorter) skirt and change into it once they are through the school gates!
Kicking squealing Gucci little piggy.
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There are no decent examples around, of what makes people decent these days. The word decency is hardly ever babndd about these days. The media has alot to do with the way society has evolved. Evolution in this case is not a good thing. It makes me sick when I see all these "Real life" televison programme, where these contestants "act" as outrageous as they can be just to get "noticed" and win. There is also a constant reference to sex, when trying to sell products. A world obsessed with Celebritism(if thats how you spell it) Society is more caught up with looking good and getting rich, that it doesn't take time to reflect on itself. All of us here are probably guilty of all the issues we are speaking of here, but instead of doing something about it, we vent our frustration by complaining about it. How many of us complain about the content of TV? Yet we still watch TV. How many of complain about Kids Clothing? Yet the we still buy them. Complain about the results of consumerism, yet still consume. It is the constant "pressure" to get rich, that drives the criminals out there, the pressure derived from the media and other organisations out there. I could go on and on about this, but it's friday morning, and this subject is way too deep for a friday!!
"a fool will not learn from a wise man, but a wise man will learn from a fool" "It is hard to fail, but it is worse never to have tried to succeed." - Theodore Roosevelt "Success is going from failure to failure without losing your enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill
cykophysh39 wrote:
How many of us complain about the content of TV? Yet we still watch TV.
There's plenty of us here that don't watch TV because of it...
Ryan
"Punctuality is only a virtue for those who aren't smart enough to think of good excuses for being late" John Nichol "Point Of Impact"
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During my time of unemployment I have become addicted to trashy daytime television including the Dr. Phil show. Today they had women who had fallen for men over the internet and WAIT! they need money to get back to the United States, so could you please send me some? This one guy said he was from Buffalo, NY and they talked on the phone. You could obviously tell the guy had a west African accent. She sent money for a ticket, and even waited at the airport and WAIT! the guy didn't show up. Later the "hospital" called to tell her that he was in a coma and could you please send money for his expenses. She said she didn't have anymore money. But then they called back because WAIT! he suddenly woke from his coma screaming her name! Oh, the love between them! Just as good as Days of Our Lives! (BTW, after 15 years they felt the need to bring back Patch and Kayla. Good lord.) They had to have a private investigator give her the (obvious) evidence that it was all a scam. At the end of it, I really couldn't feel sorry for the 'victims.' On another note, I'm glad I don't have kids. On Oprah they had tricks that pedophiles use to seduce kids. This guy from the FBI infiltrated NAMBLA for 3 years and it was so sick some of the stuff these guys say and do. (For example, I guy at the park was watching a girl of about 5 doing cartwheels and he thought this was her way of seducing him. Skin now crawling.) All you parents keep your kids safe.
I gave a PC to a woman I know after hers was held as evidence in a paedophile case - she was on a photography site and there was this guy getting to know people so he could get access to their children. :mad: She got his phone number, passed it on to the police and they caught half a dozen.
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During my time of unemployment I have become addicted to trashy daytime television including the Dr. Phil show. Today they had women who had fallen for men over the internet and WAIT! they need money to get back to the United States, so could you please send me some? This one guy said he was from Buffalo, NY and they talked on the phone. You could obviously tell the guy had a west African accent. She sent money for a ticket, and even waited at the airport and WAIT! the guy didn't show up. Later the "hospital" called to tell her that he was in a coma and could you please send money for his expenses. She said she didn't have anymore money. But then they called back because WAIT! he suddenly woke from his coma screaming her name! Oh, the love between them! Just as good as Days of Our Lives! (BTW, after 15 years they felt the need to bring back Patch and Kayla. Good lord.) They had to have a private investigator give her the (obvious) evidence that it was all a scam. At the end of it, I really couldn't feel sorry for the 'victims.' On another note, I'm glad I don't have kids. On Oprah they had tricks that pedophiles use to seduce kids. This guy from the FBI infiltrated NAMBLA for 3 years and it was so sick some of the stuff these guys say and do. (For example, I guy at the park was watching a girl of about 5 doing cartwheels and he thought this was her way of seducing him. Skin now crawling.) All you parents keep your kids safe.
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cykophysh39 wrote:
How many of us complain about the content of TV? Yet we still watch TV.
There's plenty of us here that don't watch TV because of it...
Ryan
"Punctuality is only a virtue for those who aren't smart enough to think of good excuses for being late" John Nichol "Point Of Impact"
I am pretty sure there is, I for one do not own a TV at all. However Plenty of my friends do, and they often moan about the cr@p on TV, but will still flick through the channels to find something to watch! I admit my statement was a a bit of huge generalisation?!! :-)
"a fool will not learn from a wise man, but a wise man will learn from a fool" "It is hard to fail, but it is worse never to have tried to succeed." - Theodore Roosevelt "Success is going from failure to failure without losing your enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill
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I think one of the contributors could be kids clothing. While do so many pairs of shorts/trousers for young girls (even 2/3 year olds) have things like "Angel" printed on across their bottoms in glittery writing? Why is attention drawn to this area of a child? Even on 12 year olds it just seems wrong - but on toddlers? Part of me would love my next child to be a daughter, but part of me is terrified of the possibility. In today's fashion crazy world very young kids walk around in tank tops and miniskirts, on the kids clothing catalogues they pout with their makeup smeared faces and seem to be trying to convey the message of being sexy. What ever happened to little girls in shorts and normal t-shirts having fun learning about mud and nature alongside the boys?
A mum and loving it! My (very young) blog[^]
We need to be a little bit careful that we aren't being archaic and simply rehashing passed generations. Remember there was a time that a bared ankle was sinful. You say shorts and a t-shirt for a little girl but a hundred years ago that would have been seen the same way you see tank-tops and "Angle" printed itsy-bitsy shorts today. Do we try and stake a style and time as being appropriate with no further ground being given to newer generations? I do agree though that kids shouldn't have to be worrying about looking sexy. They should be kids, innocent and free. If they are striving to be an 8 year old Britney Spears then I'm not sure who is at fault but someone is.
regards, Paul Watson Ireland FeedHenry needs you
eh, stop bugging me about it, give it a couple of days, see what happens.
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I think one of the contributors could be kids clothing. While do so many pairs of shorts/trousers for young girls (even 2/3 year olds) have things like "Angel" printed on across their bottoms in glittery writing? Why is attention drawn to this area of a child? Even on 12 year olds it just seems wrong - but on toddlers? Part of me would love my next child to be a daughter, but part of me is terrified of the possibility. In today's fashion crazy world very young kids walk around in tank tops and miniskirts, on the kids clothing catalogues they pout with their makeup smeared faces and seem to be trying to convey the message of being sexy. What ever happened to little girls in shorts and normal t-shirts having fun learning about mud and nature alongside the boys?
A mum and loving it! My (very young) blog[^]
Megan Forbes wrote:
I think one of the contributors could be kids clothing. While do so many pairs of shorts/trousers for young girls (even 2/3 year olds) have things like "Angel" printed on across their bottoms in glittery writing? Why is attention drawn to this area of a child? Even on 12 year olds it just seems wrong - but on toddlers? Part of me would love my next child to be a daughter, but part of me is terrified of the possibility. In today's fashion crazy world very young kids walk around in tank tops and miniskirts, on the kids clothing catalogues they pout with their makeup smeared faces and seem to be trying to convey the message of being sexy. What ever happened to little girls in shorts and normal t-shirts having fun learning about mud and nature alongside the boys?
That's all fine and good, but who buys the children's clothing? Adults. If they stop buying it, it sends a message to the producer that this is an unacceptable product. It's not the commercial producer's fault, it's the fault of the people that buy their clothing product. And I think that speaks volumes.
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There are people out there who believe it is their "right" to have sex with children. Trust me, I will stop and help you change your tire, I will buy you lunch if you are hungry, and if you are in desperate need of a place to stay, I will make room, for God has truly blessed me more than I deserve. But the scum that preys on children, woe be unto them.... leckey, you are right, keep an *eye* on your children at all times.
Charlie Gilley Will program for food... Whoever said children were cheaper by the dozen... lied. My son's PDA is an M249 SAW. My other son commutes in an M1A2 Abrams
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Agreed - in fact, there used to be a sector of fashion - 8-13 year olds. This no longer exists. Your 8 year old is dressed like your 15 year old, and if your 15 year old is fashionable, she's probably dressed like a tramp.
Megan Forbes wrote:
What ever happened to little girls in shorts and normal t-shirts having fun learning about mud and nature alongside the boys?
You're living in a dream world, even the boys don't do that nowadays. They are on the internet, learning about 'nature', or playing video games. I recommend a book by Neil Postman, whose name escapes me, could be 'the end of childhood'. I don't think it is, I think he has one called 'the end of education', which probably raises similar points, but I do believe he has another book dedicated to the end of childhood as a construct.
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ Metal Musings - Rex and my new metal blog
Christian Graus wrote:
I recommend a book by Neil Postman, whose name escapes me, could be 'the end of childhood'.
The Disappearance of Childhood, perhaps?
"Approved Workmen Are Not Ashamed" - 2 Timothy 2:15
"Judge not by the eye but by the heart." - Native American Proverb
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There are no decent examples around, of what makes people decent these days. The word decency is hardly ever babndd about these days. The media has alot to do with the way society has evolved. Evolution in this case is not a good thing. It makes me sick when I see all these "Real life" televison programme, where these contestants "act" as outrageous as they can be just to get "noticed" and win. There is also a constant reference to sex, when trying to sell products. A world obsessed with Celebritism(if thats how you spell it) Society is more caught up with looking good and getting rich, that it doesn't take time to reflect on itself. All of us here are probably guilty of all the issues we are speaking of here, but instead of doing something about it, we vent our frustration by complaining about it. How many of us complain about the content of TV? Yet we still watch TV. How many of complain about Kids Clothing? Yet the we still buy them. Complain about the results of consumerism, yet still consume. It is the constant "pressure" to get rich, that drives the criminals out there, the pressure derived from the media and other organisations out there. I could go on and on about this, but it's friday morning, and this subject is way too deep for a friday!!
"a fool will not learn from a wise man, but a wise man will learn from a fool" "It is hard to fail, but it is worse never to have tried to succeed." - Theodore Roosevelt "Success is going from failure to failure without losing your enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill
cykophysh39 wrote:
How many of us complain about the content of TV? Yet we still watch TV.
I do, and as a result, have not been a slave to TV service for 15 years. If folks would go a week with no TV, that would make a major impact on their lives.
"Approved Workmen Are Not Ashamed" - 2 Timothy 2:15
"Judge not by the eye but by the heart." - Native American Proverb