Apple is afraid of the Zune
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Rob Caldecott wrote:
and ... brown. Brown?!
That'd be the "Kyle Edition". :rolleyes:
-- Not Y3K Compliant
Jörgen Sigvardsson wrote:
That'd be the "Kyle Edition".
What is your problem, why are you obsessing over me? If you disagree with me, then why dont you just let it go?
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*it has bigger screen than iPod, how is it not better? *and ipod is available only in white and black. Two color choices against three... once again, who's the winner here? seems obvious to me. *so it's not a click wheel, not everybody likes click wheel (especially in 5th gen) *who cares about play4sure? *as if iPod name is not stupid... *how is wireless sharing crippled? Or did you expect unlimited sharing? rofl *so iPod has market share, your point? Things change *it's bigger but not by much, considering it has bigger screen, I say it's expected As for cool, I believe you summarized it very well. You want to look "cool" in front of 90% of people, then buy an iPod (although you'll look exceptionally stupid for the other 10% thanks largely to your remarks above). iAudio X5/X5L may not be as cool, but it gets the job done and exceptionally well at that. Fact is, zune looks interesting, I don't know how can anyone but total ipod zealots deny that. BTW, here's the physical comparison. http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/portable-media/zune-vs-ipod-about-the-same-size-both-stuck-in-43-200875.php
For me, the whole matters more than the parts. iPod is an interesting product. I think that Apple might make iPod a mobile phone with 3G Internet to connect directly to iTunes -- and of course, handle voice calls. That is the future picture of iPod that I have in my mind. I just hope that they do this. :) I don't like the DRM on the music bought from their site; so, I buy CDs and rip them. But Apple, Microsoft or any other online music store would get rights to sell music online, only if they implemented DRM. I cannot comment on the relative benefits that Zune or iPod have over each other -- because I have seen Zune only in pictures, and hyped up articles. But, I will take the exaggerated stuff written about it with a pinch of salt, because it is most likely to be PR. I will wait for the real thing before making up my mind. But, it does not look nearly as good (beauty is in the eyes of the beholder) as iPod. Sure, many would disagree. I think price would also be a deciding factor. . . . and it looks bigger. If it is indeed bigger and heavier, then, the screen size and choice of body colors would not be enough. Thomas
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Or so this article argues[^]. Anybody try one of these out yet?
Tech, life, family, faith: Give me a visit. I'm currently blogging about: For Christians: The Significance of Yom Teruah The apostle Paul, modernly speaking: Epistles of Paul Judah Himango
... just like Microsoft was afraid of Linux! I think companies have to keep track of who they are competing with and stay ahead. Apple cannot ignore it, when Microsoft joins the race. MS has money, and have used some "dumping tactics" before. Would Zune be available at a discount, if you bought Xbox etc.? would also worry Apple. If I were an Apple shareholder, I would want them to have a strategy to counter the latest mega competitor to their best product. Thomas
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Or so this article argues[^]. Anybody try one of these out yet?
Tech, life, family, faith: Give me a visit. I'm currently blogging about: For Christians: The Significance of Yom Teruah The apostle Paul, modernly speaking: Epistles of Paul Judah Himango
Got to handle one on Wednesday. Size was OK, software seemed ... strangely familiar. About the only really nice/notable bits were the screen -- very sharp and bright, and the wheel. Believe it or not, one of their selling points is that the wheel is smaller than that on the iPod. I'm expecting similar results to previous devices (Pocket PC, Smartphone, XBox): initially a clone, but iteratively better and better. As for the brown, it was OK -- made it look like it was hardwood or leather. Overall, a solid C+ as a device, a little higher as an iPod clone.
-------------- TTFN - Kent
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Or so this article argues[^]. Anybody try one of these out yet?
Tech, life, family, faith: Give me a visit. I'm currently blogging about: For Christians: The Significance of Yom Teruah The apostle Paul, modernly speaking: Epistles of Paul Judah Himango
"The zune, only needs to reboot after each song... or randomly..."
Jim
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Thank you. With SP1 for VS.NET 2003 coming after three years, you could not put it better. Best regards, Paul.
Jesus Christ is LOVE! Please tell somebody.
...and it still didn't fix on of its more annoying bugs.* :doh: * Open a dialog for editing - one which is checked in and has a newer version in VSS than your local copy. Your local copy will be replaced...and then BANG. X|
Anna :rose: Currently working mostly on: Visual Lint :cool: Anna's Place | Tears and Laughter "Be yourself - not what others think you should be" - Marcia Graesch "Anna's just a sexy-looking lesbian tart" - A friend, trying to wind me up. It didn't work.
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Let's see: * Same screen res as iPod - so no better for video content. * Available in black, white and ... brown. Brown?! * Has something that *looks* like a click-wheel, but, er.. isn't a wheel at all. * Won't even play Play4Sure DRM encoded files. Nice move MS. * Has a stupid name. * The only decent potential feature - wireless sharing - is hopelessly crippled. * Apple has a 74% market share, and despite what the article may claim, sales of iPods are not slowing down. * Apparently the Zune is bulkier than an iPod. Every 3 months or so we hear about the next so-called "iPod killer" - usually from Creative, Sony or some Korean company no-one has ever heard of. MS may have billions of dollars to throw at projects like this, and the power to generate enormous publicity (plus plenty of bloggers in their pocket) but it doesn't change the fact that, at the end of the day, the Zune just isn't "cool".
Karma Police, arrest this man. He buzzes like a fridge.
Actually using an iPod is far from cool - I mean, there are other players (Sandisk for one) which offer the same features/quality for half the price. By buying an iPod, you are almost saying aloud, "the only reason I bought this is to look cool" which is sorta uncool, if you know what I mean :-)
Regards, Nish
Nish’s thoughts on MFC, C++/CLI and .NET (my blog)
Currently working on C++/CLI in Action for Manning Publications. Also visit the Ultimate Toolbox blog -
Or so this article argues[^]. Anybody try one of these out yet?
Tech, life, family, faith: Give me a visit. I'm currently blogging about: For Christians: The Significance of Yom Teruah The apostle Paul, modernly speaking: Epistles of Paul Judah Himango
Zune will not take out the iPod. Maybe people who enjoy watching full length movies on 3" screens will pause a bit to think which is best for them, a Zune or an iPod, but everyone else who wants to use the device for what it's ultimately meant for - listening to music - will pick the smaller iPods or one of the many sleek MP3 players coming out from other manufacturers. The only - absolutely only way Zune will have a chance of succeeding is if they get the OS right. Unfortunately their track record (I'm thinking "smart"phone, Portable Media Center) is appalling. Microsoft just don't seem to understand that first and foremost a device must do it's primary job well. It shouldn't be a "a device that runs Windows Mobile and also happens to be able to play MP3s". It should be an MP3 player that, if it makes sense, has other functionality. And even if it gets this all working nicely it still has a massive, massive fight to unseat the huge advantage iPod has through customer fanatacism and the huge eco-system that has evolved around the iPod. The iPod line just looks so nice, so sleek, so non-geek and fashionable that people want to be seen with one. The Zune is looks like just another PDA. Compare[^]
cheers, Chris Maunder
CodeProject.com : C++ MVP
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*it has bigger screen than iPod, how is it not better? *and ipod is available only in white and black. Two color choices against three... once again, who's the winner here? seems obvious to me. *so it's not a click wheel, not everybody likes click wheel (especially in 5th gen) *who cares about play4sure? *as if iPod name is not stupid... *how is wireless sharing crippled? Or did you expect unlimited sharing? rofl *so iPod has market share, your point? Things change *it's bigger but not by much, considering it has bigger screen, I say it's expected As for cool, I believe you summarized it very well. You want to look "cool" in front of 90% of people, then buy an iPod (although you'll look exceptionally stupid for the other 10% thanks largely to your remarks above). iAudio X5/X5L may not be as cool, but it gets the job done and exceptionally well at that. Fact is, zune looks interesting, I don't know how can anyone but total ipod zealots deny that. BTW, here's the physical comparison. http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/portable-media/zune-vs-ipod-about-the-same-size-both-stuck-in-43-200875.php
JazzJackRabbit wrote:
it has bigger screen than iPod, how is it not better?
The screen resolution is the same though. They missed out here IMHO. They could of added MORE pixels instead of larger ones. What a wasted opportunity.
JazzJackRabbit wrote:
*and ipod is available only in white and black.
The new Nano is available in 5 colours FWIW - none of them brown - who in the hell wants a brown gadget? Come on. OK, it's a matter of personal taste, so fair enough, but a straw poll in the office yesterday failed to find anyone who thought a brown MP3 player was a good idea. We'll have to agree to disagree on this one. IMHO I want my devices to be black or silver, but I'm "old school". :)
JazzJackRabbit wrote:
so it's not a click wheel, not everybody likes click wheel
Have you ever used an iPod? Nothing else comes close to ease of use IMHO. I have tried a variety of diffferent players and the iPod is by far the easiest to use. Adding something that looks like a wheel, but is actually four buttons is actually misleading the consumer IMHO - and it will make scrolling through 1000's of songs cumbersome.
JazzJackRabbit wrote:
who cares about play4sure?
WTF? How about the people that have purchased songs that are encrypted with it! You don't think it's strange that MS are releasing an MP3 player that doesn't support their own bloody standard?! Eh? Sorry, but that is just a dumb decision.
JazzJackRabbit wrote:
how is wireless sharing crippled? Or did you expect unlimited sharing?
You only get to play the shared song 3 times - and in 3 days it disappears. Oh, and you can't share a song that you received from someone elses player. What a waste of time. They could of done something REALLY special here - imagine you are in an unsigned band - you could share one of your tracks to the nearest Zune, and, "viral" style, it could end up on players all over campus. Oh, and you can only share songs via the wireless link - you cannot sync using wireless! WTF? How cool would it of been to be able to update the songs without connecting it to your PC! So, yeh, it's "crippled" all right. This feature might well of been the one that did indeed cause Apple some concern, but not in it's current form.
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...and it still didn't fix on of its more annoying bugs.* :doh: * Open a dialog for editing - one which is checked in and has a newer version in VSS than your local copy. Your local copy will be replaced...and then BANG. X|
Anna :rose: Currently working mostly on: Visual Lint :cool: Anna's Place | Tears and Laughter "Be yourself - not what others think you should be" - Marcia Graesch "Anna's just a sexy-looking lesbian tart" - A friend, trying to wind me up. It didn't work.
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JazzJackRabbit wrote:
it has bigger screen than iPod, how is it not better?
The screen resolution is the same though. They missed out here IMHO. They could of added MORE pixels instead of larger ones. What a wasted opportunity.
JazzJackRabbit wrote:
*and ipod is available only in white and black.
The new Nano is available in 5 colours FWIW - none of them brown - who in the hell wants a brown gadget? Come on. OK, it's a matter of personal taste, so fair enough, but a straw poll in the office yesterday failed to find anyone who thought a brown MP3 player was a good idea. We'll have to agree to disagree on this one. IMHO I want my devices to be black or silver, but I'm "old school". :)
JazzJackRabbit wrote:
so it's not a click wheel, not everybody likes click wheel
Have you ever used an iPod? Nothing else comes close to ease of use IMHO. I have tried a variety of diffferent players and the iPod is by far the easiest to use. Adding something that looks like a wheel, but is actually four buttons is actually misleading the consumer IMHO - and it will make scrolling through 1000's of songs cumbersome.
JazzJackRabbit wrote:
who cares about play4sure?
WTF? How about the people that have purchased songs that are encrypted with it! You don't think it's strange that MS are releasing an MP3 player that doesn't support their own bloody standard?! Eh? Sorry, but that is just a dumb decision.
JazzJackRabbit wrote:
how is wireless sharing crippled? Or did you expect unlimited sharing?
You only get to play the shared song 3 times - and in 3 days it disappears. Oh, and you can't share a song that you received from someone elses player. What a waste of time. They could of done something REALLY special here - imagine you are in an unsigned band - you could share one of your tracks to the nearest Zune, and, "viral" style, it could end up on players all over campus. Oh, and you can only share songs via the wireless link - you cannot sync using wireless! WTF? How cool would it of been to be able to update the songs without connecting it to your PC! So, yeh, it's "crippled" all right. This feature might well of been the one that did indeed cause Apple some concern, but not in it's current form.
Rob Caldecott wrote:
The screen resolution is the same though. They missed out here IMHO. They could of added MORE pixels instead of larger ones. What a wasted opportunity.
That's not what you said. You said zune screen is no better for watching videos. I consider a bigger screen better for watching videos, even if it's the same resolution. Given you had a choice between 2.5" screen and 3" one, which one is better? Of course it's the latter one.
Rob Caldecott wrote:
he new Nano is available in 5 colours FWIW - none of them brown - who in the hell wants a brown gadget? Come on. OK, it's a matter of personal taste, so fair enough, but a straw poll in the office yesterday failed to find anyone who thought a brown MP3 player was a good idea. We'll have to agree to disagree on this one. IMHO I want my devices to be black or silver, but I'm "old school".
Yes, but zune is not competing with nano, it's competing with 5th gen iPod, and 5th gen iPod only comes in two colors. So once again, three colors against two. Even if you don't like brown color no one is making you buy one. But simple math dictates white+black+brown > white+black. You'd think who would buy goldish/brownish cars, but people do buy them.
Rob Caldecott wrote:
Have you ever used an iPod? Nothing else comes close to ease of use IMHO. I have tried a variety of diffferent players and the iPod is by far the easiest to use. Adding something that looks like a wheel, but is actually four buttons is actually misleading the consumer IMHO - and it will make scrolling through 1000's of songs cumbersome.
I have used 5th gen iPod and nano. 5th gen click wheel is too big IMO, I have to move my fingers too much to do anything useful and I tire too quickly. As for being misleading that's not microsoft fault, it's the consumers that expect something without researching. Besides that's a stupid argument anyway. Motorola V330 phone 4 way navigation looks like click wheel, yet I haven't seen anyone try to use it as such.
Rob Caldecott wrote:
WTF? How about the people that have purchased songs that are encrypted with it! You don't think it's strange that MS are releasing an MP3 player that doesn't support their own bloody standard?! Eh? Sorry, but that is just a dumb decision.
The decision may be dumb but it doesn't affect
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Rob Caldecott wrote:
The screen resolution is the same though. They missed out here IMHO. They could of added MORE pixels instead of larger ones. What a wasted opportunity.
That's not what you said. You said zune screen is no better for watching videos. I consider a bigger screen better for watching videos, even if it's the same resolution. Given you had a choice between 2.5" screen and 3" one, which one is better? Of course it's the latter one.
Rob Caldecott wrote:
he new Nano is available in 5 colours FWIW - none of them brown - who in the hell wants a brown gadget? Come on. OK, it's a matter of personal taste, so fair enough, but a straw poll in the office yesterday failed to find anyone who thought a brown MP3 player was a good idea. We'll have to agree to disagree on this one. IMHO I want my devices to be black or silver, but I'm "old school".
Yes, but zune is not competing with nano, it's competing with 5th gen iPod, and 5th gen iPod only comes in two colors. So once again, three colors against two. Even if you don't like brown color no one is making you buy one. But simple math dictates white+black+brown > white+black. You'd think who would buy goldish/brownish cars, but people do buy them.
Rob Caldecott wrote:
Have you ever used an iPod? Nothing else comes close to ease of use IMHO. I have tried a variety of diffferent players and the iPod is by far the easiest to use. Adding something that looks like a wheel, but is actually four buttons is actually misleading the consumer IMHO - and it will make scrolling through 1000's of songs cumbersome.
I have used 5th gen iPod and nano. 5th gen click wheel is too big IMO, I have to move my fingers too much to do anything useful and I tire too quickly. As for being misleading that's not microsoft fault, it's the consumers that expect something without researching. Besides that's a stupid argument anyway. Motorola V330 phone 4 way navigation looks like click wheel, yet I haven't seen anyone try to use it as such.
Rob Caldecott wrote:
WTF? How about the people that have purchased songs that are encrypted with it! You don't think it's strange that MS are releasing an MP3 player that doesn't support their own bloody standard?! Eh? Sorry, but that is just a dumb decision.
The decision may be dumb but it doesn't affect
I never said that any of the Zune features were disadvantages - I just pointed out that, despite what the link the OP provided claims, Apple are hardly likely to worry about losing sales when the Zune features seem to suffer from a half-arsed implemention. MS could of done something REALLY special here - a higher res screen, better colour choices (I don't know anyone with a brown car BTW - hasn't been a popular colour since the 70s), better interface (the click wheel is inspired and you're the first person I've come across that doesn't get on with it) better wireless support (sync with no cables would of been awesome), support for their _own_ popular DRM scheme (you might not use DRM, but plenty of people do - people with protected WMAs - an MS format - that aren't going to play on the Zune), etc. But, no, instead they have something that, at the end of the day, isn't THAT much better than an iPod - yet the iPod has the "brand" behind it, the iTunes Store and hundreds of 3rd-party add-ons ("party" speaker systems are really popular, etc.). I think this has been a wasted opportunity - MS could of clawed back a lot of kudos with this product - gained some long lost respect from many of the "M$" crowd, but, instead, they have announced an uninspired product that, IMHO, isn't going to dent iPod sales at all. Time will tell of course. Yes, they came up trumps with the XBox, but then most people I know who are into console gaming would say the XBox is far superior to the PS2 (the addition of a hard-disk makes a massive difference). Do you really think the Zune has that much of an advantage over an iPod than an XBox over a PS2? I don't. Chris made a good point re: the software that will driving this product - I also hope it will it be bullet-proof (my iPod has never crashed) - can you imagine the stick MS will get if people have Zunes that "blue screen" or throw up crash dialogs? :) Anyway, enjoy what's left of your weekend JazzJackRabbit. Perhaps we'll have this discussion again in 6 months time, when the Zune has had time to make an impact? Christmas is less than three months away...
Karma Police, arrest this man. He buzzes like a fridge.
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Let's see: * Same screen res as iPod - so no better for video content. * Available in black, white and ... brown. Brown?! * Has something that *looks* like a click-wheel, but, er.. isn't a wheel at all. * Won't even play Play4Sure DRM encoded files. Nice move MS. * Has a stupid name. * The only decent potential feature - wireless sharing - is hopelessly crippled. * Apple has a 74% market share, and despite what the article may claim, sales of iPods are not slowing down. * Apparently the Zune is bulkier than an iPod. Every 3 months or so we hear about the next so-called "iPod killer" - usually from Creative, Sony or some Korean company no-one has ever heard of. MS may have billions of dollars to throw at projects like this, and the power to generate enormous publicity (plus plenty of bloggers in their pocket) but it doesn't change the fact that, at the end of the day, the Zune just isn't "cool".
Karma Police, arrest this man. He buzzes like a fridge.
Rob Caldecott wrote:
* Apple has a 74% market share, and despite what the article may claim, sales of iPods are not slowing down.
Someone should have told Sony not to invest the money / time a few years ago when Nintendo was king. :shrugs: I already have an IRiver and am more than happy with it.
I'd love to help, but unfortunatley I have prior commitments monitoring the length of my grass. :Andrew Bleakley:
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Rob Caldecott wrote:
* Apple has a 74% market share, and despite what the article may claim, sales of iPods are not slowing down.
Someone should have told Sony not to invest the money / time a few years ago when Nintendo was king. :shrugs: I already have an IRiver and am more than happy with it.
I'd love to help, but unfortunatley I have prior commitments monitoring the length of my grass. :Andrew Bleakley:
The difference is that when the PS/PS2 came out is was by far the best console on the market - but the advantages of the Zune over the iPod are too slight for it to be a big success IMHO. And most console gamers I know have more than one console - a PS2 AND an XBox for example - can you say that about MP3 players? :)
Karma Police, arrest this man. He buzzes like a fridge.
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Let's see: * Same screen res as iPod - so no better for video content. * Available in black, white and ... brown. Brown?! * Has something that *looks* like a click-wheel, but, er.. isn't a wheel at all. * Won't even play Play4Sure DRM encoded files. Nice move MS. * Has a stupid name. * The only decent potential feature - wireless sharing - is hopelessly crippled. * Apple has a 74% market share, and despite what the article may claim, sales of iPods are not slowing down. * Apparently the Zune is bulkier than an iPod. Every 3 months or so we hear about the next so-called "iPod killer" - usually from Creative, Sony or some Korean company no-one has ever heard of. MS may have billions of dollars to throw at projects like this, and the power to generate enormous publicity (plus plenty of bloggers in their pocket) but it doesn't change the fact that, at the end of the day, the Zune just isn't "cool".
Karma Police, arrest this man. He buzzes like a fridge.
I am one of those that have not fallen for the iPod marketing machine. Although, I am looking at purchasing a player within the next 12 months. At this time it could be a Zune if the price drops enough, but more than likely will be a ZenW from creative. They just have a much better player and since the world is changing and not everyone is staying with "just" audio files, I will enjoy the bigger screen of the ZenW for video files. Still up for grabs, but the ZenW is ahead in my books...
Rocky <>< Latest Code Blog Post: ASP.NET HttpException - Cannot use leading "..".. Latest Tech Blog Post: Microsoft Zune to be built by Toshiba
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Zune will not take out the iPod. Maybe people who enjoy watching full length movies on 3" screens will pause a bit to think which is best for them, a Zune or an iPod, but everyone else who wants to use the device for what it's ultimately meant for - listening to music - will pick the smaller iPods or one of the many sleek MP3 players coming out from other manufacturers. The only - absolutely only way Zune will have a chance of succeeding is if they get the OS right. Unfortunately their track record (I'm thinking "smart"phone, Portable Media Center) is appalling. Microsoft just don't seem to understand that first and foremost a device must do it's primary job well. It shouldn't be a "a device that runs Windows Mobile and also happens to be able to play MP3s". It should be an MP3 player that, if it makes sense, has other functionality. And even if it gets this all working nicely it still has a massive, massive fight to unseat the huge advantage iPod has through customer fanatacism and the huge eco-system that has evolved around the iPod. The iPod line just looks so nice, so sleek, so non-geek and fashionable that people want to be seen with one. The Zune is looks like just another PDA. Compare[^]
cheers, Chris Maunder
CodeProject.com : C++ MVP
There are a lot of people (I happen to be one) that do not want to invest that kind of money on something that "just" plays audio files. With more and moore video on the way in the forms of podcasts and tutorials, it makes much more since to invest in a device that easily handles video as well as audio. If a person wants only audio, why not just pick up a cheap 1 GB MP3 player? I may not be like other people, but if all I want to do is have music to listen too, a small 1 GB device would have more than enough room to load with my favorite music tracks for that day or week. Video is become more important to many people and it is great to have the ability to take on the road with you. Only down side is that the screen is usually so small on the devices it is hard to view, but Creative's players are looking better for screen size. As long as it fits in my pocket, it should be fine.
Rocky <>< Latest Code Blog Post: ASP.NET HttpException - Cannot use leading "..".. Latest Tech Blog Post: Microsoft Zune to be built by Toshiba
