Yo espeir!
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Thomas George wrote:
By that definition, all crimes are committed by atheists; but, still it is his disappointment with the Christian God to fulfill the promises made by the Bible and the preachers that caused the reaction. If he never believed in God, then he may not have had the same reaction to whatever stimulus he had.
How does that fit the definition I gave?
Thomas George wrote:
Hey, I am not the one looking at the banana and say that "God exists. He designed the handle for us. How considerate.". I don't go around saying that God cured me of my illnesses. All these are supposed to be evidences that draw people to God. These "evidences" did not disappear -- did they? but, these miracles did not happen to him when he needed it most. The violence was because his *love* changed to *hate*. If he were a non-believer and did not care about God ever, he would never have had this outburst of emotion.
I can't attempt to identify what caused him to actively reject God, just that (per his own letter) he did.
"You act like jew." -Score: 1.0 (3 votes).
Red Stateler wrote:
How does that fit the definition I gave?
Why does it have to fit your definition? You are saying that when a Christian decides to violate the commandments, he is not a Christian anymore? I sincerely hope you are still a christian; and those priests (in the molestation scandal) are also not Christians -- although they are still priests in official capacity.
Red Stateler wrote:
I can't attempt to identify what caused him to actively reject God, just that (per his own letter) he did.
You are the one portraying *rejection* as *non-existence*, because it suits your theory.
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So what makes you think this bastard rejected Christianity rather than simply sinning? Just the fact that he expressed anger towards God?
"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss
Mike Mullikin wrote:
So what makes you think this bastard rejected Christianity rather than simply sinning? Just the fact that he expressed anger towards God?
Exactly. His statement was an active rejection of God. The resulting acts were either an act of vengeance against God's lack of intervention, or an acceptance of a lack of consequence because of God's non-existence. Christian sin is done out of weakness and is considered a self-separation of God subject to reconciliation. Active rejection of God is a whole other story and is in a category of its own.
"You act like jew." -Score: 1.0 (3 votes).
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Neither was Mike Mullikin "angry with God" reference. Again...Kind of the point.
"You act like jew." -Score: 1.0 (3 votes).
Red Stateler wrote:
Neither was Mike Mullikin "angry with God" reference.
Huh? Other than your pathetic rationalizations there is NOTHING that indicates the bastard who killed those kids wasn't a christian.
"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss
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Red Stateler wrote:
How does that fit the definition I gave?
Why does it have to fit your definition? You are saying that when a Christian decides to violate the commandments, he is not a Christian anymore? I sincerely hope you are still a christian; and those priests (in the molestation scandal) are also not Christians -- although they are still priests in official capacity.
Red Stateler wrote:
I can't attempt to identify what caused him to actively reject God, just that (per his own letter) he did.
You are the one portraying *rejection* as *non-existence*, because it suits your theory.
Thomas George wrote:
Why does it have to fit your definition?
Ummmm...Because you were responding to it?
Thomas George wrote:
You are saying that when a Christian decides to violate the commandments, he is not a Christian anymore? I sincerely hope you are still a christian; and those priests (in the molestation scandal) are also not Christians -- although they are still priests in official capacity.
You're misinterpreting what I said. I didn't say that the murders cause him to cease being a Christian. His active rejection of God did.
Thomas George wrote:
You are the one portraying *rejection* as *non-existence*, because it suits your theory.
No, I said that at a minimum he rejected God. Whether or not he adopted atheism is up in the air. Personally, I find a high probability of it, given his wording, but I admit that I don't know for sure either way. Of course, most atheists actively reject Christianity and the Christian God, too.
"You act like jew." -Score: 1.0 (3 votes).
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Alvaro Mendez wrote:
So naturally, you picked option 2 [far-fetched as it may be: "I'm angry at you even though you don't exist"] because it fits your anti-atheist agenda.
No, it's actually pretty typical. Anger with God is usually associated with the fact that he doesn't intervene in your daily life, so blame is placed on his absence (the foundation of atheism).
"You act like jew." -Score: 1.0 (3 votes).
Red Stateler wrote:
Anger with God is usually associated with the fact that he doesn't intervene in your daily life, so blame is placed on his absence (the foundation of atheism).
There you go making stuff up again. "is the absence of belief in the existence of deities." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheism[^]
led mike
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Mike Mullikin wrote:
So what makes you think this bastard rejected Christianity rather than simply sinning? Just the fact that he expressed anger towards God?
Exactly. His statement was an active rejection of God. The resulting acts were either an act of vengeance against God's lack of intervention, or an acceptance of a lack of consequence because of God's non-existence. Christian sin is done out of weakness and is considered a self-separation of God subject to reconciliation. Active rejection of God is a whole other story and is in a category of its own.
"You act like jew." -Score: 1.0 (3 votes).
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Red Stateler wrote:
Neither was Mike Mullikin "angry with God" reference.
Huh? Other than your pathetic rationalizations there is NOTHING that indicates the bastard who killed those kids wasn't a christian.
"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss
Mike Mullikin wrote:
Huh? Other than your pathetic rationalizations there is NOTHING that indicates the bastard who killed those kids wasn't a christian.
uhhh...He said he was "angry with God" (indicating a departure from Him) and sealed the deal with an act of evil demonstrating that departure. How on earth could that be described any way else?
"You act like jew." -Score: 1.0 (3 votes).
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Kinda convienient. It lets you wash your hands of him AND blame atheism at the same time. :rolleyes:
"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss
Mike Mullikin wrote:
Kinda convienient.
Yes it is, but those are simply the circumstances. I'm not overtly blaming atheism. I'm blaming his active rejection of God and strongly suspect that atheism may have been a motivating factor.
"You act like jew." -Score: 1.0 (3 votes).
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Mike Mullikin wrote:
Huh? Other than your pathetic rationalizations there is NOTHING that indicates the bastard who killed those kids wasn't a christian.
uhhh...He said he was "angry with God" (indicating a departure from Him) and sealed the deal with an act of evil demonstrating that departure. How on earth could that be described any way else?
"You act like jew." -Score: 1.0 (3 votes).
You're reading way too much into a comment made by a cop paraphrasing the message he wrote. But feel free to jump to any conclusion that supports your myopic views. :laugh:
"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss
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Mike Mullikin wrote:
Kinda convienient.
Yes it is, but those are simply the circumstances. I'm not overtly blaming atheism. I'm blaming his active rejection of God and strongly suspect that atheism may have been a motivating factor.
"You act like jew." -Score: 1.0 (3 votes).
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Red Stateler wrote:
Anger with God is usually associated with the fact that he doesn't intervene in your daily life, so blame is placed on his absence (the foundation of atheism).
There you go making stuff up again. "is the absence of belief in the existence of deities." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheism[^]
led mike
I see that the concept of metaphor is beyond your grasp.
"You act like jew." -Score: 1.0 (3 votes).
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Red Stateler wrote:
Congratulations. You just justified his actions as...reasonable.
No, he said you are a fucking head case sprouting Jesus jiberish. You said that he said the shooters actions were reasonable. If you have any doubts scroll back up and look at who has reasnable in their post.
Michael Martin Australia "I controlled my laughter and simple said "No,I am very busy,so I can't write any code for you". The moment they heard this all the smiling face turned into a sad looking face and one of them farted. So I had to leave the place as soon as possible." - Mr.Prakash 24/04/2004
Michael Martin wrote:
No, he said you are a f****ing head case sprouting Jesus jiberish. You said that he said the shooters actions were reasonable. If you have any doubts scroll back up and look at who has reasnable in their post.
No, he abandoned the concept of personal responsibility. He rejected the concept of evil in favor of madness (whereby the individual is not under the control of his own actions) thereby justifying his actions as something all reasonable people are ultimately suseptible to.
"You act like jew." -Score: 1.0 (3 votes).
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Thomas George wrote:
Why does it have to fit your definition?
Ummmm...Because you were responding to it?
Thomas George wrote:
You are saying that when a Christian decides to violate the commandments, he is not a Christian anymore? I sincerely hope you are still a christian; and those priests (in the molestation scandal) are also not Christians -- although they are still priests in official capacity.
You're misinterpreting what I said. I didn't say that the murders cause him to cease being a Christian. His active rejection of God did.
Thomas George wrote:
You are the one portraying *rejection* as *non-existence*, because it suits your theory.
No, I said that at a minimum he rejected God. Whether or not he adopted atheism is up in the air. Personally, I find a high probability of it, given his wording, but I admit that I don't know for sure either way. Of course, most atheists actively reject Christianity and the Christian God, too.
"You act like jew." -Score: 1.0 (3 votes).
Red Stateler wrote:
Ummmm...Because you were responding to it?
I responded because I disagree with you. Not because I want to fit everything into your definition. That is your job, not mine.
Red Stateler wrote:
most atheists actively reject Christianity and the Christian God, too.
Most of them may have never accepted it in the first place. Atleast, it seems that there is also a non-violent way to switch as demonstrated by many atheists who may have been formerly Christian.
Red Stateler wrote:
His active rejection of God did.
I am happy to know that the practising (and molesting) priests are still Christians, because they molested without rejecting Christ as their saviour. You think that active rejection of God may have (atleast you are bit uncertain now - that is some progress) made him do this heinious crime; I disagree. I think this guy would have had a similar reaction, if he was disappointed with something else other than God. I think he did this because he was nuts, and he was pushed over the edge by some trigger, and ended up blaming God. Thomas
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Shooter was NOT atheist Shooter angry with life[^] Roberts left notes to his wife and his children, claiming "he was angry with life, he was angry with God," said Pennsylvania State Police Commissioner Col. Jeffrey B. Miller. If he was angry with God he MUST believe in God, thus he's not an atheist. Given his age, ethnicity and our society - it's quite likely he was a christian. IMO his religion (or lack of religion) hardly matters in the whole scheme of things but it seemed important to you so I thought I'd point it out. In the end, innocent children were killed and wounded. Neither our society nor your God did anything to stop it.
"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss
Mike Mullikin wrote:
IMO his religion (or lack of religion) hardly matters in the whole scheme of things but it seemed important to you so I thought I'd point it out. In the end, innocent children were killed and wounded. Neither our society nor your God did anything to stop it.
5
We are a big screwed up dysfunctional psychotic happy family - some more screwed up, others more happy, but everybody's psychotic joint venture definition of CP
Linkify! || Fold With Us! || sighist -
Red Stateler wrote:
Ummmm...Because you were responding to it?
I responded because I disagree with you. Not because I want to fit everything into your definition. That is your job, not mine.
Red Stateler wrote:
most atheists actively reject Christianity and the Christian God, too.
Most of them may have never accepted it in the first place. Atleast, it seems that there is also a non-violent way to switch as demonstrated by many atheists who may have been formerly Christian.
Red Stateler wrote:
His active rejection of God did.
I am happy to know that the practising (and molesting) priests are still Christians, because they molested without rejecting Christ as their saviour. You think that active rejection of God may have (atleast you are bit uncertain now - that is some progress) made him do this heinious crime; I disagree. I think this guy would have had a similar reaction, if he was disappointed with something else other than God. I think he did this because he was nuts, and he was pushed over the edge by some trigger, and ended up blaming God. Thomas
Thomas George wrote:
Most of them may have never accepted it in the first place. Atleast, it seems that there is also a non-violent way to switch as demonstrated by many atheists who may have been formerly Christian.
You don't have to first accept to reject. I reject atheism, though I have never accepted it. One can obviously become an atheist (or vice versa) non-violently as it happens all the time. My statement is not an interpretation of behavior universally, but of this individual. Yesterday I posed the question as to whether or not this gunman was possibly an atheist in accordance with the numerous other acts of atheism-inspired violence in schools. It turns out I was at least close and may be right. He most certainly did actively reject Christianity and it seems that this act may have been in glory of his new beliefs (since he stated that he committed them against the concept of God).
Thomas George wrote:
I am happy to know that the practising (and molesting) priests are still Christians, because they molested without rejecting Christ as their saviour.
Their Christianity is up to them.
Thomas George wrote:
You think that active rejection of God may have (atleast you are bit uncertain now - that is some progress) made him do this heinious crime; I disagree. I think this guy would have had a similar reaction, if he was disappointed with something else other than God. I think he did this because he was nuts, and he was pushed over the edge by some trigger, and ended up blaming God.
I disagree that he was nuts. He was far too lucid and calculating. I hear he even thought to bring toilet paper for a standoff.
"You act like jew." -Score: 1.0 (3 votes).
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Pathetic
"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss
"Amen brother!" :)
-- Mit viel Oktan und frei von Blei, eine Kraftstoff wie Benziiiiiiin!
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You're reading way too much into a comment made by a cop paraphrasing the message he wrote. But feel free to jump to any conclusion that supports your myopic views. :laugh:
"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss
No, you just misinterpreted the story.
"You act like jew." -Score: 1.0 (3 votes).
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Mike Mullikin wrote:
So what makes you think this bastard rejected Christianity rather than simply sinning? Just the fact that he expressed anger towards God?
Exactly. His statement was an active rejection of God. The resulting acts were either an act of vengeance against God's lack of intervention, or an acceptance of a lack of consequence because of God's non-existence. Christian sin is done out of weakness and is considered a self-separation of God subject to reconciliation. Active rejection of God is a whole other story and is in a category of its own.
"You act like jew." -Score: 1.0 (3 votes).
Red Stateler wrote:
Exactly. His statement was an active rejection of God.
Exactly wrong. If I am angry with my wife, it does not mean we are divorced. If I am angry with my wife, it does not mean she does not exist.
No eternal reward will forgive us now for wasting the dawn. - Jim Morrison
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Congratulations. You just justified his actions as...reasonable.
"You act like jew." -Score: 1.0 (3 votes).
Red Stateler wrote:
Congratulations. You just justified his actions as...reasonable.
Please....... Are you really that stupid, or you are being intentionally obtuse? Nowhere did I make any such statement. You are just too lost in your dogma to have a logical conversation. You wish to blame the supernatural; I wish to blame flaws in man. I do not dissolve personal responsibility like you fantasized I did; I simply reject you brainwashed bible thumping supernaturalism. Jesus Christ, chatting with you is like talking with a pissed off 6 year old.
A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects. - -Lazarus Long, Time Enough For Love
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Thomas George wrote:
Most of them may have never accepted it in the first place. Atleast, it seems that there is also a non-violent way to switch as demonstrated by many atheists who may have been formerly Christian.
You don't have to first accept to reject. I reject atheism, though I have never accepted it. One can obviously become an atheist (or vice versa) non-violently as it happens all the time. My statement is not an interpretation of behavior universally, but of this individual. Yesterday I posed the question as to whether or not this gunman was possibly an atheist in accordance with the numerous other acts of atheism-inspired violence in schools. It turns out I was at least close and may be right. He most certainly did actively reject Christianity and it seems that this act may have been in glory of his new beliefs (since he stated that he committed them against the concept of God).
Thomas George wrote:
I am happy to know that the practising (and molesting) priests are still Christians, because they molested without rejecting Christ as their saviour.
Their Christianity is up to them.
Thomas George wrote:
You think that active rejection of God may have (atleast you are bit uncertain now - that is some progress) made him do this heinious crime; I disagree. I think this guy would have had a similar reaction, if he was disappointed with something else other than God. I think he did this because he was nuts, and he was pushed over the edge by some trigger, and ended up blaming God.
I disagree that he was nuts. He was far too lucid and calculating. I hear he even thought to bring toilet paper for a standoff.
"You act like jew." -Score: 1.0 (3 votes).
Red Stateler wrote:
I hear he even thought to bring toilet paper for a standoff.
He brought toilet paper for a standoff with armed police. Wow! If that is not nuts, I don't know what is.
Red Stateler wrote:
It turns out I was at least close and may be right.
You were not close by any standards. Feeling sad and angry because God ignored him does not make him an atheist. He never denied the existence of God; he was angry because God did not help him in ways he expected.