Yo espeir!
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Thomas George wrote:
created by the preachers and pastors that caused this unfortunate event.
That is absurd. Lets give credit where credit is due. This happened not because of the man's religion but because he was fricking crazy. Healthy, sane people do not just start shooting at people. If there is any blame to be placed it would be on any people who saw this coming and didn't try to get the man help.
A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects. - -Lazarus Long, Time Enough For Love
Of course, he is nuts. But, I am just making the point that it could be argued both ways. But, when a nutcase gets disappointed, and he got disappointed because he believed that God will save him from all problems, the outcome will not be good. Sanity demands that religion be taken with a pinch of salt.
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I don't think he was crazy at all. I think he was overcome by evil. If you read what happened, he was completely lucid and planned the whole thing in great detail. Crazy people do not write clear letters of intent to their wives, spend the morning delivering milk, then shoot up a school of little girls. Let's not confuse evil with insanity (which is an inability to recognize your own actions).
"You act like jew." -Score: 1.0 (3 votes).
Red Stateler wrote:
I think he was overcome by evil.
please. This is more supernaturalist nonsense.
A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects. - -Lazarus Long, Time Enough For Love
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If you're gonna quote something, make sure you understand it first. Ok? :)
-- Mit viel Oktan und frei von Blei, eine Kraftstoff wie Benziiiiiiin!
I do, and that's kind of the point.
"You act like jew." -Score: 1.0 (3 votes).
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Red Stateler wrote:
I think he was overcome by evil.
As in, the 'devil' made him do it? :confused: :omg:
"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss
As in whatever your concept of evil may be, we need to differentiate between evil and simple madness. The failure to recognize evil is my primary complaint with atheism.
"You act like jew." -Score: 1.0 (3 votes).
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I do, and that's kind of the point.
"You act like jew." -Score: 1.0 (3 votes).
Well, you're not demonstrating it.
-- Mit viel Oktan und frei von Blei, eine Kraftstoff wie Benziiiiiiin!
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Actually there's a specific sin that denotes rejection of Christianity. Otherwise, sin itself is recognized by Christians as an inherent part of the human condition.
"You act like jew." -Score: 1.0 (3 votes).
So what makes you think this bastard rejected Christianity rather than simply sinning? Just the fact that he expressed anger towards God?
"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss
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Red Stateler wrote:
I think he was overcome by evil.
please. This is more supernaturalist nonsense.
A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects. - -Lazarus Long, Time Enough For Love
Congratulations. You just justified his actions as...reasonable.
"You act like jew." -Score: 1.0 (3 votes).
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Well, you're not demonstrating it.
-- Mit viel Oktan und frei von Blei, eine Kraftstoff wie Benziiiiiiin!
Neither was Mike Mullikin "angry with God" reference. Again...Kind of the point.
"You act like jew." -Score: 1.0 (3 votes).
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Neither was Mike Mullikin "angry with God" reference. Again...Kind of the point.
"You act like jew." -Score: 1.0 (3 votes).
Bullshit. :)
-- Mit viel Oktan und frei von Blei, eine Kraftstoff wie Benziiiiiiin!
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Congratulations. You just justified his actions as...reasonable.
"You act like jew." -Score: 1.0 (3 votes).
Red Stateler wrote:
Congratulations. You just justified his actions as...reasonable.
No, he said you are a fucking head case sprouting Jesus jiberish. You said that he said the shooters actions were reasonable. If you have any doubts scroll back up and look at who has reasnable in their post.
Michael Martin Australia "I controlled my laughter and simple said "No,I am very busy,so I can't write any code for you". The moment they heard this all the smiling face turned into a sad looking face and one of them farted. So I had to leave the place as soon as possible." - Mr.Prakash 24/04/2004
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As in whatever your concept of evil may be, we need to differentiate between evil and simple madness. The failure to recognize evil is my primary complaint with atheism.
"You act like jew." -Score: 1.0 (3 votes).
Through literature and/or Hollywood I've always thought of evil as having it's origin in the devil (Satan, Beelzebub, Lucifer, Mephistopheles, Prince of Darkness). Care to elaborate? P.S. When a crime is committed, how do we decide if it was madness, evil or contempt for the law?
"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss
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Thomas George wrote:
By that definition, all crimes are committed by atheists; but, still it is his disappointment with the Christian God to fulfill the promises made by the Bible and the preachers that caused the reaction. If he never believed in God, then he may not have had the same reaction to whatever stimulus he had.
How does that fit the definition I gave?
Thomas George wrote:
Hey, I am not the one looking at the banana and say that "God exists. He designed the handle for us. How considerate.". I don't go around saying that God cured me of my illnesses. All these are supposed to be evidences that draw people to God. These "evidences" did not disappear -- did they? but, these miracles did not happen to him when he needed it most. The violence was because his *love* changed to *hate*. If he were a non-believer and did not care about God ever, he would never have had this outburst of emotion.
I can't attempt to identify what caused him to actively reject God, just that (per his own letter) he did.
"You act like jew." -Score: 1.0 (3 votes).
Red Stateler wrote:
How does that fit the definition I gave?
Why does it have to fit your definition? You are saying that when a Christian decides to violate the commandments, he is not a Christian anymore? I sincerely hope you are still a christian; and those priests (in the molestation scandal) are also not Christians -- although they are still priests in official capacity.
Red Stateler wrote:
I can't attempt to identify what caused him to actively reject God, just that (per his own letter) he did.
You are the one portraying *rejection* as *non-existence*, because it suits your theory.
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So what makes you think this bastard rejected Christianity rather than simply sinning? Just the fact that he expressed anger towards God?
"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss
Mike Mullikin wrote:
So what makes you think this bastard rejected Christianity rather than simply sinning? Just the fact that he expressed anger towards God?
Exactly. His statement was an active rejection of God. The resulting acts were either an act of vengeance against God's lack of intervention, or an acceptance of a lack of consequence because of God's non-existence. Christian sin is done out of weakness and is considered a self-separation of God subject to reconciliation. Active rejection of God is a whole other story and is in a category of its own.
"You act like jew." -Score: 1.0 (3 votes).
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Neither was Mike Mullikin "angry with God" reference. Again...Kind of the point.
"You act like jew." -Score: 1.0 (3 votes).
Red Stateler wrote:
Neither was Mike Mullikin "angry with God" reference.
Huh? Other than your pathetic rationalizations there is NOTHING that indicates the bastard who killed those kids wasn't a christian.
"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss
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Red Stateler wrote:
How does that fit the definition I gave?
Why does it have to fit your definition? You are saying that when a Christian decides to violate the commandments, he is not a Christian anymore? I sincerely hope you are still a christian; and those priests (in the molestation scandal) are also not Christians -- although they are still priests in official capacity.
Red Stateler wrote:
I can't attempt to identify what caused him to actively reject God, just that (per his own letter) he did.
You are the one portraying *rejection* as *non-existence*, because it suits your theory.
Thomas George wrote:
Why does it have to fit your definition?
Ummmm...Because you were responding to it?
Thomas George wrote:
You are saying that when a Christian decides to violate the commandments, he is not a Christian anymore? I sincerely hope you are still a christian; and those priests (in the molestation scandal) are also not Christians -- although they are still priests in official capacity.
You're misinterpreting what I said. I didn't say that the murders cause him to cease being a Christian. His active rejection of God did.
Thomas George wrote:
You are the one portraying *rejection* as *non-existence*, because it suits your theory.
No, I said that at a minimum he rejected God. Whether or not he adopted atheism is up in the air. Personally, I find a high probability of it, given his wording, but I admit that I don't know for sure either way. Of course, most atheists actively reject Christianity and the Christian God, too.
"You act like jew." -Score: 1.0 (3 votes).
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Alvaro Mendez wrote:
So naturally, you picked option 2 [far-fetched as it may be: "I'm angry at you even though you don't exist"] because it fits your anti-atheist agenda.
No, it's actually pretty typical. Anger with God is usually associated with the fact that he doesn't intervene in your daily life, so blame is placed on his absence (the foundation of atheism).
"You act like jew." -Score: 1.0 (3 votes).
Red Stateler wrote:
Anger with God is usually associated with the fact that he doesn't intervene in your daily life, so blame is placed on his absence (the foundation of atheism).
There you go making stuff up again. "is the absence of belief in the existence of deities." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheism[^]
led mike
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Mike Mullikin wrote:
So what makes you think this bastard rejected Christianity rather than simply sinning? Just the fact that he expressed anger towards God?
Exactly. His statement was an active rejection of God. The resulting acts were either an act of vengeance against God's lack of intervention, or an acceptance of a lack of consequence because of God's non-existence. Christian sin is done out of weakness and is considered a self-separation of God subject to reconciliation. Active rejection of God is a whole other story and is in a category of its own.
"You act like jew." -Score: 1.0 (3 votes).
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Red Stateler wrote:
Neither was Mike Mullikin "angry with God" reference.
Huh? Other than your pathetic rationalizations there is NOTHING that indicates the bastard who killed those kids wasn't a christian.
"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss
Mike Mullikin wrote:
Huh? Other than your pathetic rationalizations there is NOTHING that indicates the bastard who killed those kids wasn't a christian.
uhhh...He said he was "angry with God" (indicating a departure from Him) and sealed the deal with an act of evil demonstrating that departure. How on earth could that be described any way else?
"You act like jew." -Score: 1.0 (3 votes).
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Kinda convienient. It lets you wash your hands of him AND blame atheism at the same time. :rolleyes:
"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss
Mike Mullikin wrote:
Kinda convienient.
Yes it is, but those are simply the circumstances. I'm not overtly blaming atheism. I'm blaming his active rejection of God and strongly suspect that atheism may have been a motivating factor.
"You act like jew." -Score: 1.0 (3 votes).
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Mike Mullikin wrote:
Huh? Other than your pathetic rationalizations there is NOTHING that indicates the bastard who killed those kids wasn't a christian.
uhhh...He said he was "angry with God" (indicating a departure from Him) and sealed the deal with an act of evil demonstrating that departure. How on earth could that be described any way else?
"You act like jew." -Score: 1.0 (3 votes).
You're reading way too much into a comment made by a cop paraphrasing the message he wrote. But feel free to jump to any conclusion that supports your myopic views. :laugh:
"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss