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  • D David Wulff

    Well ok, on the condition that they have to be running it's only 21: 12 Windows servers (2x Win 2000, the rest are 2003, with three 64 bit) 3 PCs (old dev boxes that moved down the food chain, all XP) 2 Linux servers (CentOS, running Asterisk) 2 Laptops (XP, in bad need of upgrading) 1 Dev machine (XP 64 bit) 1 Media centre box (XP MCE) I hope to lose one of the old PCs in a few weeks by passing it on to a friend. I'm not including the 150 computers stacked on my living room floor[^] because those aren't actually running. ;P


    Ðavid Wulff Die Freiheit spielt auf allen Geigen (video)
      10 PRINT 'HELLO MAINTAINER: GOTO HELL

    M Offline
    M Offline
    Michael Dunn
    wrote on last edited by
    #28

    150!??! Wow, at least your room won't be cold during the winter!

    --Mike-- Visual C++ MVP :cool: LINKS~! Ericahist | PimpFish | CP SearchBar v3.0 | C++ Forum FAQ

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    • C Chris Austin

      How many computers do you have running at your house? Me, I am tipping the scales at 5. 1 Game machine. 1 Laptop 1 Linux Box 1 Dev Box 1 Beefy box to handle my VMs for testing, builds, and playing with betas. I've recently "simplified" things a bit in order to get down to this number :). Before depending on what I was developing or testing I would have anywhere from 8 - 10 boxes running. I am looking at cutting it down further if I can reasonably move my dev box and linux box to a VM.

      A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects. - -Lazarus Long, Time Enough For Love

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      Miszou
      wrote on last edited by
      #29
      1. Windows 2003 domain controller running multiple websites, email, file server, DHCP and various other services
      2. Main desktop computer, used for games and video processing
      3. Laptop for myself
      4. Laptop for Wife
      5. Desktop for daughter #1
      6. Desktop for daughter #2
      7. Media-Player / Video Jukebox, hooked up to the TV in the living room
      8. Image capture computer for taking images for the Timelapse Project[^]
      9. Workshop computer, for use when I'm out in the workshop
      10. At least 4 others, in various states of undress that I'm planning on using for other projects, such as Linux

      I also have a Roku Soundbridbge[^] that utilises the wireles network and DHCP services of the server.


      The StartPage Randomizer | The Timelapse Project | A Random Web Page

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      • C Chris Austin

        How many computers do you have running at your house? Me, I am tipping the scales at 5. 1 Game machine. 1 Laptop 1 Linux Box 1 Dev Box 1 Beefy box to handle my VMs for testing, builds, and playing with betas. I've recently "simplified" things a bit in order to get down to this number :). Before depending on what I was developing or testing I would have anywhere from 8 - 10 boxes running. I am looking at cutting it down further if I can reasonably move my dev box and linux box to a VM.

        A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects. - -Lazarus Long, Time Enough For Love

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        JBurkey
        wrote on last edited by
        #30

        6 for now... 1. File Server - athlon 2. Performance Machine - athlon, dev and gaming 3. Media PC for living room - athlon 4. Personal Laptop - dell 5. Fiances Laptop - dell 6. An old POS dell(PIII) that doesn't get used much (fiance's old machine) And it will probably expand soon since the performance machine is getting on in age. It'll shift to a second file server and be replaced by something multi-core. But maybe then I'll dump the old dell. I don't think I'll ever get below 4-5 machines so long as I keep dedicated Media PC's for TV. J

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        • M Michael Dunn

          150!??! Wow, at least your room won't be cold during the winter!

          --Mike-- Visual C++ MVP :cool: LINKS~! Ericahist | PimpFish | CP SearchBar v3.0 | C++ Forum FAQ

          D Offline
          D Offline
          David Wulff
          wrote on last edited by
          #31

          Quite ironically, I use as much energy keeping the computer rooms cool with air conditioning as I do to generate the heat in the first place. Such a terrible, terrible waste. :( I would love to channel the heat off elsewhere. I've been toying with the idea of directing the warm air from the condensors back inside through the eaves of the house, then at least the roof space will keep warmer and I should lose less heat from the rooms. I've not been able to solve the problem of circulation though as they need to have free flow around them and the heat disipates into the air within feet.


          Ðavid Wulff Die Freiheit spielt auf allen Geigen (video)
            10 PRINT 'HELLO MAINTAINER: GOTO HELL

          M 1 Reply Last reply
          0
          • C Chris Austin

            How many computers do you have running at your house? Me, I am tipping the scales at 5. 1 Game machine. 1 Laptop 1 Linux Box 1 Dev Box 1 Beefy box to handle my VMs for testing, builds, and playing with betas. I've recently "simplified" things a bit in order to get down to this number :). Before depending on what I was developing or testing I would have anywhere from 8 - 10 boxes running. I am looking at cutting it down further if I can reasonably move my dev box and linux box to a VM.

            A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects. - -Lazarus Long, Time Enough For Love

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            Marc Clifton
            wrote on last edited by
            #32

            6 4 in my office, 1 in my son's room 1 in the living room for my girlfriend Marc

            Thyme In The Country

            People are just notoriously impossible. --DavidCrow
            There's NO excuse for not commenting your code. -- John Simmons / outlaw programmer
            People who say that they will refactor their code later to make it "good" don't understand refactoring, nor the art and craft of programming. -- Josh Smith

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            • M Miszou
              1. Windows 2003 domain controller running multiple websites, email, file server, DHCP and various other services
              2. Main desktop computer, used for games and video processing
              3. Laptop for myself
              4. Laptop for Wife
              5. Desktop for daughter #1
              6. Desktop for daughter #2
              7. Media-Player / Video Jukebox, hooked up to the TV in the living room
              8. Image capture computer for taking images for the Timelapse Project[^]
              9. Workshop computer, for use when I'm out in the workshop
              10. At least 4 others, in various states of undress that I'm planning on using for other projects, such as Linux

              I also have a Roku Soundbridbge[^] that utilises the wireles network and DHCP services of the server.


              The StartPage Randomizer | The Timelapse Project | A Random Web Page

              D Offline
              D Offline
              David Wulff
              wrote on last edited by
              #33

              Miszou wrote:

              the Timelapse Project

              That is really amazing, and it's great to be able to read about the work that went into it. I managed to spot your son in the video. :cool:


              Ðavid Wulff Die Freiheit spielt auf allen Geigen (video)
                10 PRINT 'HELLO MAINTAINER: GOTO HELL

              M 1 Reply Last reply
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              • D David Wulff

                Miszou wrote:

                the Timelapse Project

                That is really amazing, and it's great to be able to read about the work that went into it. I managed to spot your son in the video. :cool:


                Ðavid Wulff Die Freiheit spielt auf allen Geigen (video)
                  10 PRINT 'HELLO MAINTAINER: GOTO HELL

                M Offline
                M Offline
                Miszou
                wrote on last edited by
                #34

                Thanks! Don't forget to vote on the pictures - it will affect the outcome of the video. Your vote counts - really! Oh, and please leave a comment. Just one will do, please! ;)


                The StartPage Randomizer | The Timelapse Project | A Random Web Page

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                • C Chris Austin

                  How many computers do you have running at your house? Me, I am tipping the scales at 5. 1 Game machine. 1 Laptop 1 Linux Box 1 Dev Box 1 Beefy box to handle my VMs for testing, builds, and playing with betas. I've recently "simplified" things a bit in order to get down to this number :). Before depending on what I was developing or testing I would have anywhere from 8 - 10 boxes running. I am looking at cutting it down further if I can reasonably move my dev box and linux box to a VM.

                  A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects. - -Lazarus Long, Time Enough For Love

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                  Ray Cassick
                  wrote on last edited by
                  #35

                  1 - Home Server (Gateway, firewall, files, print, exchange, etc...) 1 - Wifes machine 1 - Mother-in-law machine 2 - Kid systems 1 - My desktop 1 - My dev test machine 1 - Myspare machine 1 - My laptop


                  My Blog[^]
                  FFRF[^]


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                  • D David Wulff

                    Quite ironically, I use as much energy keeping the computer rooms cool with air conditioning as I do to generate the heat in the first place. Such a terrible, terrible waste. :( I would love to channel the heat off elsewhere. I've been toying with the idea of directing the warm air from the condensors back inside through the eaves of the house, then at least the roof space will keep warmer and I should lose less heat from the rooms. I've not been able to solve the problem of circulation though as they need to have free flow around them and the heat disipates into the air within feet.


                    Ðavid Wulff Die Freiheit spielt auf allen Geigen (video)
                      10 PRINT 'HELLO MAINTAINER: GOTO HELL

                    M Offline
                    M Offline
                    Miszou
                    wrote on last edited by
                    #36

                    At IBM in Hursley Park (Winchester), they use the heat generated by the mainframes in the basement to warm a fairly large building. At least, they were doing this 15 years ago when I worked there...


                    The StartPage Randomizer | The Timelapse Project | A Random Web Page

                    1 Reply Last reply
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                    • C Chris Austin

                      How many computers do you have running at your house? Me, I am tipping the scales at 5. 1 Game machine. 1 Laptop 1 Linux Box 1 Dev Box 1 Beefy box to handle my VMs for testing, builds, and playing with betas. I've recently "simplified" things a bit in order to get down to this number :). Before depending on what I was developing or testing I would have anywhere from 8 - 10 boxes running. I am looking at cutting it down further if I can reasonably move my dev box and linux box to a VM.

                      A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects. - -Lazarus Long, Time Enough For Love

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                      G Offline
                      Graham Shanks
                      wrote on last edited by
                      #37

                      2 (home PC and work laptop) and some bits (must get round to fix the spare PC sometime soon)

                      Graham My signature is not black, just a very, very dark blue

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                      • C Chris Austin

                        How many computers do you have running at your house? Me, I am tipping the scales at 5. 1 Game machine. 1 Laptop 1 Linux Box 1 Dev Box 1 Beefy box to handle my VMs for testing, builds, and playing with betas. I've recently "simplified" things a bit in order to get down to this number :). Before depending on what I was developing or testing I would have anywhere from 8 - 10 boxes running. I am looking at cutting it down further if I can reasonably move my dev box and linux box to a VM.

                        A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects. - -Lazarus Long, Time Enough For Love

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                        Michael A Barnhart
                        wrote on last edited by
                        #38

                        I will say 5 (I am not counting the 2 with my kids at college) 1 - Basic box for day to day usage. 2 - Laptop, but I do not use it very often. 3 - Principle test box (with drive cradles*) 4 - Secondary test box (with drive cradles*) 5 - minimal client box - system used to load questional software on. * Both these machines have the same MB and video. I have 15 drives with different configurations that I can slip into either one and change the network setup.

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                        • C Chris Austin

                          How many computers do you have running at your house? Me, I am tipping the scales at 5. 1 Game machine. 1 Laptop 1 Linux Box 1 Dev Box 1 Beefy box to handle my VMs for testing, builds, and playing with betas. I've recently "simplified" things a bit in order to get down to this number :). Before depending on what I was developing or testing I would have anywhere from 8 - 10 boxes running. I am looking at cutting it down further if I can reasonably move my dev box and linux box to a VM.

                          A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects. - -Lazarus Long, Time Enough For Love

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                          J Offline
                          Jorgen Sigvardsson
                          wrote on last edited by
                          #39

                          Two. One for gaming (UT99 only) and work. It runs both Windows and currently Fedora Core 5. Another one is serving as a gateway/firewall, and runs FreeBSD (used to run OpenBSD). I don't see a need for another one. :)

                          -- Mr. Bender's Wardrobe by ROBOTANY 500

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                          • D David Wulff

                            Well ok, on the condition that they have to be running it's only 21: 12 Windows servers (2x Win 2000, the rest are 2003, with three 64 bit) 3 PCs (old dev boxes that moved down the food chain, all XP) 2 Linux servers (CentOS, running Asterisk) 2 Laptops (XP, in bad need of upgrading) 1 Dev machine (XP 64 bit) 1 Media centre box (XP MCE) I hope to lose one of the old PCs in a few weeks by passing it on to a friend. I'm not including the 150 computers stacked on my living room floor[^] because those aren't actually running. ;P


                            Ðavid Wulff Die Freiheit spielt auf allen Geigen (video)
                              10 PRINT 'HELLO MAINTAINER: GOTO HELL

                            J Offline
                            J Offline
                            Jorgen Sigvardsson
                            wrote on last edited by
                            #40

                            David Wulff wrote:

                            'm not including the 150 computers stacked on my living room floor

                            All I can say is WTF! Are computers born in your apartment, or do they go there to die? :~ I hope they're insured...

                            -- From the network that brought you "The Simpsons"

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                            • C Chris Austin

                              How many computers do you have running at your house? Me, I am tipping the scales at 5. 1 Game machine. 1 Laptop 1 Linux Box 1 Dev Box 1 Beefy box to handle my VMs for testing, builds, and playing with betas. I've recently "simplified" things a bit in order to get down to this number :). Before depending on what I was developing or testing I would have anywhere from 8 - 10 boxes running. I am looking at cutting it down further if I can reasonably move my dev box and linux box to a VM.

                              A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects. - -Lazarus Long, Time Enough For Love

                              J Offline
                              J Offline
                              Jun Du
                              wrote on last edited by
                              #41

                              3 in my home, plus 1 that my daughter's running at school. :cool:

                              Best, Jun

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                              • C Chris Austin

                                How many computers do you have running at your house? Me, I am tipping the scales at 5. 1 Game machine. 1 Laptop 1 Linux Box 1 Dev Box 1 Beefy box to handle my VMs for testing, builds, and playing with betas. I've recently "simplified" things a bit in order to get down to this number :). Before depending on what I was developing or testing I would have anywhere from 8 - 10 boxes running. I am looking at cutting it down further if I can reasonably move my dev box and linux box to a VM.

                                A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects. - -Lazarus Long, Time Enough For Love

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                                Eric Goedhart
                                wrote on last edited by
                                #42

                                At this moment 2, my workhorse server (double xeon) and my HP Compaq laptop with Xp Home Edition.

                                With friendly greetings,:) Eric Goedhart "I love the sound of Servers in the Morning!"

                                1 Reply Last reply
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                                • C Chris Austin

                                  How many computers do you have running at your house? Me, I am tipping the scales at 5. 1 Game machine. 1 Laptop 1 Linux Box 1 Dev Box 1 Beefy box to handle my VMs for testing, builds, and playing with betas. I've recently "simplified" things a bit in order to get down to this number :). Before depending on what I was developing or testing I would have anywhere from 8 - 10 boxes running. I am looking at cutting it down further if I can reasonably move my dev box and linux box to a VM.

                                  A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects. - -Lazarus Long, Time Enough For Love

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                                  A Offline
                                  Andrew Eisenberg
                                  wrote on last edited by
                                  #43

                                  Let's see it depends on how you look at it. The answer is 2 - 8, possibly more. 2 Active (in regular use) 1 Toshiba Laptop P-3 700MHz running WinMe 1 Homebuilt "main machine" AMD Athlon 1GHz multibooting Win98SE, WinMe, & Win2K Pro (dual monitor) 2 Inactive (not in regular use, but are setup and usable0 1 Homebuilt AMD K6-3 400MHz running WinNT 4 with a custom dual monitor card 1 Homebuilt Pentium 200 MMX multibooting MS-DOS 6.22, Win95, & Win NT 4 (has TV tuner, but replaced with cheap TV) 4 Dormant (presumed in working order but not currently setup) 1 Homebuilt AMD K6-2 500MHz multiboooting MS-DOS 6.22 & Win98SE (has DVD drive, was used as DVD player, still for use for games with entertainment center which is being reworked following purchase of 51" Widescreen HDTV. 1 Homebuilt Pentimum 200 MHz multibooting MS-DOS 6.22 & Win98 for entertainment use in bedroom including DVD playing 1 Dell P-2 ? MHz running Win98SE for use in spare bedroom. 1 Original iMac running Mac OS 9 6 in Storage (presumed in working order but no plans to activate) 1 Homebuilt 486-100MHz running Red Hat 7.0, last used briefly four years ago as a firewall/router beofre being replaced with a solid state version (may load MS-DOS for legacy gaming) 1 Heavily-modified AST server with 486-66MHz processor running Red Had 5.1, was used as firewall/router before other machine (will probably scrap even though it has EISA slots!) 1 Compaq Presario "Pizza Box" P-2 ? MHz - no OS 2 Toshiba laptops with P-2 300MHz processors - no workable OS, both are mostly functional (will probably canibalize one for parts to get the other running) 1 Mac Quadra LC 68040 ? MHz running Mac OS ? This gives 2 in active use 4 that can be used TODAY (including the 2 above) 8 that I plan to have active (including the 4 above) There are many hulks including 6 or 7 IBM Netfinity servers with no hard disk and only enough RAM for one. Most of these will either be used for parts or scrapped.

                                  Andrew C. Eisenberg Nashville, TN, USA (a.k.a. Music City USA) (Yes Virginia, there are rock and roll stations in Nashville! :laugh:)

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                                  • C Chris Austin

                                    How many computers do you have running at your house? Me, I am tipping the scales at 5. 1 Game machine. 1 Laptop 1 Linux Box 1 Dev Box 1 Beefy box to handle my VMs for testing, builds, and playing with betas. I've recently "simplified" things a bit in order to get down to this number :). Before depending on what I was developing or testing I would have anywhere from 8 - 10 boxes running. I am looking at cutting it down further if I can reasonably move my dev box and linux box to a VM.

                                    A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects. - -Lazarus Long, Time Enough For Love

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                                    R Offline
                                    ResidentGeek
                                    wrote on last edited by
                                    #44

                                    Hmm, 7 right now: My main machine My husband's main machine My test box, currently running some Linux distro (don't remember which one is on it at the moment - I was playing with several different ones last month) The VM machine A fileserver A web/mail server The kitchen machine There's also a media pc that is in the process of being updated with new hardware, and my husband and I each have a laptop (not technically running at our house right now, since we both have them at work with us ;P )

                                    Caffeine - it's what's for breakfast!

                                    1 Reply Last reply
                                    0
                                    • C Chris Austin

                                      How many computers do you have running at your house? Me, I am tipping the scales at 5. 1 Game machine. 1 Laptop 1 Linux Box 1 Dev Box 1 Beefy box to handle my VMs for testing, builds, and playing with betas. I've recently "simplified" things a bit in order to get down to this number :). Before depending on what I was developing or testing I would have anywhere from 8 - 10 boxes running. I am looking at cutting it down further if I can reasonably move my dev box and linux box to a VM.

                                      A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects. - -Lazarus Long, Time Enough For Love

                                      R Offline
                                      R Offline
                                      Ryan Binns
                                      wrote on last edited by
                                      #45

                                      Just one. I've got another box sitting around doing nothing, but I have no use for it, so it can just sit there and collect dust until I can think of a good reason to recommission it :)

                                      Ryan

                                      "Punctuality is only a virtue for those who aren't smart enough to think of good excuses for being late" John Nichol "Point Of Impact"

                                      1 Reply Last reply
                                      0
                                      • C Chris Austin

                                        How many computers do you have running at your house? Me, I am tipping the scales at 5. 1 Game machine. 1 Laptop 1 Linux Box 1 Dev Box 1 Beefy box to handle my VMs for testing, builds, and playing with betas. I've recently "simplified" things a bit in order to get down to this number :). Before depending on what I was developing or testing I would have anywhere from 8 - 10 boxes running. I am looking at cutting it down further if I can reasonably move my dev box and linux box to a VM.

                                        A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects. - -Lazarus Long, Time Enough For Love

                                        M Offline
                                        M Offline
                                        Matt Newman
                                        wrote on last edited by
                                        #46

                                        1 SBS Server 1 Media Center 1 Desktop 1 TabletPC 2 Laptops

                                        Matt Newman
                                        Even the very best tools in the hands of an idiot will produce something of little or no value. - Chris Meech on Idiots

                                        1 Reply Last reply
                                        0
                                        • D David Wulff

                                          Well ok, on the condition that they have to be running it's only 21: 12 Windows servers (2x Win 2000, the rest are 2003, with three 64 bit) 3 PCs (old dev boxes that moved down the food chain, all XP) 2 Linux servers (CentOS, running Asterisk) 2 Laptops (XP, in bad need of upgrading) 1 Dev machine (XP 64 bit) 1 Media centre box (XP MCE) I hope to lose one of the old PCs in a few weeks by passing it on to a friend. I'm not including the 150 computers stacked on my living room floor[^] because those aren't actually running. ;P


                                          Ðavid Wulff Die Freiheit spielt auf allen Geigen (video)
                                            10 PRINT 'HELLO MAINTAINER: GOTO HELL

                                          M Offline
                                          M Offline
                                          Matt Newman
                                          wrote on last edited by
                                          #47

                                          David Wulff wrote:

                                          I'm not including the 150 computers stacked on my living room floor[^] because those aren't actually running.

                                          I could take a couple of your hands if you need me to :)

                                          Matt Newman
                                          Even the very best tools in the hands of an idiot will produce something of little or no value. - Chris Meech on Idiots

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