Mental prowess
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I was trying to prove the following using mathematical induction:
2k+1 - 1 > 2k2 + 2k + 1;
for all k > 4It took me forever (about 3 hrs). At one time I was thrilled when I received any mathematical induction questions because they were normally the easiest problems to solve. I have a feeling that my general mathematical and problem solving ability is deteriorating. Do you have the same feeling and if yes, are you doing about it and if not, how do you maintain your ability?
Debugging is twice as hard as writing the code in the first place. Therefore, if you write the code as cleverly as possible, you are, by definition, not smart enough to debug it. -Brian Kernighan
Mental abilities are just like physical ones. You have to keep in practice or they fade away. The good thing is that slow focued exercises like Tai Chi can let you do both at the same time. I've also found getting fat and sluggish also impacts how well I think and solve problems. Since I've been getting back in shape after years of neglect I can concentrate and think more clearly then I did just a few years ago.
Using the GridView is like trying to explain to someone else how to move a third person's hands in order to tie your shoelaces for you. -Chris Maunder
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I was trying to prove the following using mathematical induction:
2k+1 - 1 > 2k2 + 2k + 1;
for all k > 4It took me forever (about 3 hrs). At one time I was thrilled when I received any mathematical induction questions because they were normally the easiest problems to solve. I have a feeling that my general mathematical and problem solving ability is deteriorating. Do you have the same feeling and if yes, are you doing about it and if not, how do you maintain your ability?
Debugging is twice as hard as writing the code in the first place. Therefore, if you write the code as cleverly as possible, you are, by definition, not smart enough to debug it. -Brian Kernighan
My best time with math was in 10th standard (grade) I was in the hospital for more than a month due to severe jaundice and another month at home recovering. I was bored out of my wits, so I started devouring math text books from different boards and higher grades. It was such a high. Now, I cant even approach those same questions that appeared to be a piece of cake back then.
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I was trying to prove the following using mathematical induction:
2k+1 - 1 > 2k2 + 2k + 1;
for all k > 4It took me forever (about 3 hrs). At one time I was thrilled when I received any mathematical induction questions because they were normally the easiest problems to solve. I have a feeling that my general mathematical and problem solving ability is deteriorating. Do you have the same feeling and if yes, are you doing about it and if not, how do you maintain your ability?
Debugging is twice as hard as writing the code in the first place. Therefore, if you write the code as cleverly as possible, you are, by definition, not smart enough to debug it. -Brian Kernighan
Rama Krishna Vavilala wrote:
how do you maintain your ability?
As stated already, it depends on what my needs are. Over the years I've forgotten how to do a lot of maths or play the drums, but on the other hand I've gained knowledge in aspects of software development I never used to even comtemplate, learned about building decks, maintaining my yard, other cultures, etc. I'll learn about anything that crosses my path and hold onto those bits that are relevent to my life. The rest can be referred to or studied as needed.
BW
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
-- Steven Wright -
I was trying to prove the following using mathematical induction:
2k+1 - 1 > 2k2 + 2k + 1;
for all k > 4It took me forever (about 3 hrs). At one time I was thrilled when I received any mathematical induction questions because they were normally the easiest problems to solve. I have a feeling that my general mathematical and problem solving ability is deteriorating. Do you have the same feeling and if yes, are you doing about it and if not, how do you maintain your ability?
Debugging is twice as hard as writing the code in the first place. Therefore, if you write the code as cleverly as possible, you are, by definition, not smart enough to debug it. -Brian Kernighan
I don't know, mathematics never was my strongest point and that while the last IQ test (Done last week for a new job) showed that I was quite good on the numeric plane. I guess it has something to do with not practicing or doing stuff too little. At least that's the problem with me ;P
WM. What about weapons of mass-construction?
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Rama Krishna Vavilala wrote:
Do you have the same feeling and if yes, are you doing about it and if not, how do you maintain your ability?
Yes. I'm not doing anything about it. Consider: a bit more than a decade ago, i divided my time between farm work, writing out code - long hand - in pen, and typing on both computer keyboards and an old manual typewriter. My arms, wrists, and hands were all quite strong. While raking hay, i also passed the time by working out the maths for various tasks (my interest then were largely concerned with the various transforms necessary for the representation, transformation, projection, and display of 3D objects in a game i was working on). In the years since, my focus has changed. I do very little manual labor, very little 3D math, and it's been a long while since i've even seen a working manual typewriter. My wrists, arms, and hands have weakened, and with them my math skills. I could, no doubt, have kept all of those by devoting a portion of my day to mental and physical exercise, but for what? I've weakened in those areas because i presently have no need for them. Should my needs change, presumably i'd adjust my focus and at least some strength would return. Or maybe i'll die first. Best i just do the work in front of me. :)
every night, i kneel at the foot of my bed and thank the Great Overseeing Politicians for protecting my freedoms by reducing their number, as if they were deer in a state park. -- Chris Losinger, Online Poker Players?
Shog9 wrote:
My wrists, arms, and hands have weakened, and with them my math skills.
I suggest lifting some light dumbells once in a while before you lose the ability to balance the checkbook.;) -- modified at 17:00 Tuesday 10th October, 2006 Ah, I see our local post injector is malfunctioning again... This was a reply to the previous post from Shog...:sigh:
"...a photo album is like Life, but flat and stuck to pages." - Shog9
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Shog9 wrote:
My wrists, arms, and hands have weakened, and with them my math skills.
I suggest lifting some light dumbells once in a while before you lose the ability to balance the checkbook.;) -- modified at 17:00 Tuesday 10th October, 2006 Ah, I see our local post injector is malfunctioning again... This was a reply to the previous post from Shog...:sigh:
"...a photo album is like Life, but flat and stuck to pages." - Shog9
:-D
every night, i kneel at the foot of my bed and thank the Great Overseeing Politicians for protecting my freedoms by reducing their number, as if they were deer in a state park. -- Chris Losinger, Online Poker Players?
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I was trying to prove the following using mathematical induction:
2k+1 - 1 > 2k2 + 2k + 1;
for all k > 4It took me forever (about 3 hrs). At one time I was thrilled when I received any mathematical induction questions because they were normally the easiest problems to solve. I have a feeling that my general mathematical and problem solving ability is deteriorating. Do you have the same feeling and if yes, are you doing about it and if not, how do you maintain your ability?
Debugging is twice as hard as writing the code in the first place. Therefore, if you write the code as cleverly as possible, you are, by definition, not smart enough to debug it. -Brian Kernighan
It took me two minutes, and I've been out of the loop for 11 years. 2 ^(k + 1) - 1 > 2k ^ 2 + 2k + 1 => 2 ^(k + 1) - 1 > k ^ 2 + 2k + 1 => 2 ^(k + 1) - 1 > (k + 1) ^ 2 => 2 ^(k + 1) > (k + 1) ^ 2 => sqrt(2^(k + 1)) > k + 1 => 2 ^ ((k + 1) / 2) > k + 1 We know that exponential functions grow faster than linear functions. If you derive both sides of the >, you will see that the right hand side becomes constant, and the left hand side will still be exponential. That is the proof that the left hand side will be larger than the right hand side for all k > x. The problem asks us to prove that x = 4. We test with k = 5 > 4. 2 ^ ((5 + 1) / 2) = 8 > 5 + 1 = 6. 8 is indeed greater than 6. From this it follows that for all k > 4, the left hand side is greater than the right hand side. Q.E.D. Perhaps you need some sleep. :)
-- Verletzen zerfetzen zersetzen zerstören Doch es darf nicht mir gehören Ich muss zerstören
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Mental abilities are just like physical ones. You have to keep in practice or they fade away. The good thing is that slow focued exercises like Tai Chi can let you do both at the same time. I've also found getting fat and sluggish also impacts how well I think and solve problems. Since I've been getting back in shape after years of neglect I can concentrate and think more clearly then I did just a few years ago.
Using the GridView is like trying to explain to someone else how to move a third person's hands in order to tie your shoelaces for you. -Chris Maunder
Andy Brummer wrote:
I've also found getting fat and sluggish also impacts how well I think and solve problems.
Yes, same here. Body and mind is linked far tighter together than one would think. A better body provides a better infrastructure for all organs in the body, including the brain.
-- Verletzen zerfetzen zersetzen zerstören Doch es darf nicht mir gehören Ich muss zerstören
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Shog9 wrote:
My wrists, arms, and hands have weakened, and with them my math skills.
I suggest lifting some light dumbells once in a while before you lose the ability to balance the checkbook.;) -- modified at 17:00 Tuesday 10th October, 2006 Ah, I see our local post injector is malfunctioning again... This was a reply to the previous post from Shog...:sigh:
"...a photo album is like Life, but flat and stuck to pages." - Shog9
Roger Wright wrote:
I suggest lifting some light dumbells once in a while before you lose the ability to balance the checkbook
checkbook? no... Quicken + on-line bill-pay!
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Rama Krishna Vavilala wrote:
Do you have the same feeling and if yes, are you doing about it and if not, how do you maintain your ability?
Yes. I'm not doing anything about it. Consider: a bit more than a decade ago, i divided my time between farm work, writing out code - long hand - in pen, and typing on both computer keyboards and an old manual typewriter. My arms, wrists, and hands were all quite strong. While raking hay, i also passed the time by working out the maths for various tasks (my interest then were largely concerned with the various transforms necessary for the representation, transformation, projection, and display of 3D objects in a game i was working on). In the years since, my focus has changed. I do very little manual labor, very little 3D math, and it's been a long while since i've even seen a working manual typewriter. My wrists, arms, and hands have weakened, and with them my math skills. I could, no doubt, have kept all of those by devoting a portion of my day to mental and physical exercise, but for what? I've weakened in those areas because i presently have no need for them. Should my needs change, presumably i'd adjust my focus and at least some strength would return. Or maybe i'll die first. Best i just do the work in front of me. :)
every night, i kneel at the foot of my bed and thank the Great Overseeing Politicians for protecting my freedoms by reducing their number, as if they were deer in a state park. -- Chris Losinger, Online Poker Players?
I understand your philosophy and it certainly adds up but I find "your lack of faith in the force disturbing". Not to wax philosophic but there's just tons of holes here. If you didn't wear a seatbelt until you needed it your dead and your wife is a widow. If you didn't brush your teeth until you had cavities you would have no teeth. You were younger once and did not use need/focus to evaluate things you did you simply did them because it felt good. I could go on and on and you've defended your position almost well enough by saying maybe I'll die first. I just have to say though that in general it's a "me centered" approach to living ( and you certainly have a right to that ). I have found that life will redefine "need" by the moment so saying "If I need..." or "When I need..." is a bad way to go. Now I'm going to rant a tiny bit by saying that this is why America is getting it's @$$ kicked in so many ways. Our leaders bend us over because we largely have this mentallity we are not politically active anymore we just bitch a lot. Our jobs are going over seas faster than we can crank out students to fill them. The standards of the work being done overseas have now invaded the quality of work being done here and the quality here sucks just as bad. If Jonnie Turban Hat (I don't mean to be racial but I don't want to use any names I know as I really don't want to offend anyone but I will anyway... :sigh: ) can write crappy code and my employer buys it and my job has no guarantees either I'm going to write crappy code to because I don't *need* to write it any better. Americans used to exercise because it fit well into a state of mind known as "preparedness". Americans used to work hard at things that didn't seem to fit into their daily activity because it kept mental prowess fit. Americans used to "buck up" and get it done no matter how hard it might be... We are Americans and we used to FINISH THINGS! I'm horrified at how I'm watching Americans go flat like a pop bottle with no lid. There's no *fizz* left in America and it's not a good thing. Shog this isn't aimed at you and I have meandered (but only slightly) from the OP but I just had to say this. On this board you have always been one of the people who I admired for many reasons. So your response here just surprised me. I had to speak to it a little bit to remind Amerians of the greatness we once embodied. We used to enjoy hard work. Now we do hard work, it works and we still get laid off as we watch our jobs go to India where the quality sucks, the product doesn
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I understand your philosophy and it certainly adds up but I find "your lack of faith in the force disturbing". Not to wax philosophic but there's just tons of holes here. If you didn't wear a seatbelt until you needed it your dead and your wife is a widow. If you didn't brush your teeth until you had cavities you would have no teeth. You were younger once and did not use need/focus to evaluate things you did you simply did them because it felt good. I could go on and on and you've defended your position almost well enough by saying maybe I'll die first. I just have to say though that in general it's a "me centered" approach to living ( and you certainly have a right to that ). I have found that life will redefine "need" by the moment so saying "If I need..." or "When I need..." is a bad way to go. Now I'm going to rant a tiny bit by saying that this is why America is getting it's @$$ kicked in so many ways. Our leaders bend us over because we largely have this mentallity we are not politically active anymore we just bitch a lot. Our jobs are going over seas faster than we can crank out students to fill them. The standards of the work being done overseas have now invaded the quality of work being done here and the quality here sucks just as bad. If Jonnie Turban Hat (I don't mean to be racial but I don't want to use any names I know as I really don't want to offend anyone but I will anyway... :sigh: ) can write crappy code and my employer buys it and my job has no guarantees either I'm going to write crappy code to because I don't *need* to write it any better. Americans used to exercise because it fit well into a state of mind known as "preparedness". Americans used to work hard at things that didn't seem to fit into their daily activity because it kept mental prowess fit. Americans used to "buck up" and get it done no matter how hard it might be... We are Americans and we used to FINISH THINGS! I'm horrified at how I'm watching Americans go flat like a pop bottle with no lid. There's no *fizz* left in America and it's not a good thing. Shog this isn't aimed at you and I have meandered (but only slightly) from the OP but I just had to say this. On this board you have always been one of the people who I admired for many reasons. So your response here just surprised me. I had to speak to it a little bit to remind Amerians of the greatness we once embodied. We used to enjoy hard work. Now we do hard work, it works and we still get laid off as we watch our jobs go to India where the quality sucks, the product doesn
I agree with you %100. Americans are so lame these days, the education system is going down hill, and everything on TV is just mind numbingly stupid (except for Star Trek TGN:-D). I'm glad you posted that, its nice to see someone who has his eyes open and is thinking right.
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I agree with you %100. Americans are so lame these days, the education system is going down hill, and everything on TV is just mind numbingly stupid (except for Star Trek TGN:-D). I'm glad you posted that, its nice to see someone who has his eyes open and is thinking right.
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Yeah, I don't really watch TV at all. It's full of mild pornography, violence or hate. Tonight I had to stay home with the kids (all 3 of them) so I taught them lessons from the "Book of Pain". We played dodge ball in our great room upstairs. I have about a dozen soft inflated rubber balls that hit about as hard as a snow flake on a warm day. I spent about 2.5 hours pasting my children to screams of their own delight. That was my T.V. it was their T.V. it was my "first person shooter video game" and it was there "Run like hell as dad is dead-on tonight." evening. In general the magnitudes of chaos multiplied without restraint. Reality came crashing home though when I lined all 3 of them up (6 years old, 5 years old, 19 months old) to brush teeth, wash hands and pray for mom to come home safe. If I'm holding a pillow or a dodge ball my children squeel in delight and fear the very mention of my name. I am death walking and they crave it like junkies. With a night like that... Who needs T.V.? But then there are the nights where Grant and I watch military jet clips on Google Video. Amazingly and F-15 at 500 feet sounds just like an F-15 at 500 feet on a killer 6.2 speaker system being driven by a Sound Blaster Audigy card. The nice thing about all of it is the kids go to bed tired, had the time of their lives and my aim continues to improve. ;P
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I understand your philosophy and it certainly adds up but I find "your lack of faith in the force disturbing". Not to wax philosophic but there's just tons of holes here. If you didn't wear a seatbelt until you needed it your dead and your wife is a widow. If you didn't brush your teeth until you had cavities you would have no teeth. You were younger once and did not use need/focus to evaluate things you did you simply did them because it felt good. I could go on and on and you've defended your position almost well enough by saying maybe I'll die first. I just have to say though that in general it's a "me centered" approach to living ( and you certainly have a right to that ). I have found that life will redefine "need" by the moment so saying "If I need..." or "When I need..." is a bad way to go. Now I'm going to rant a tiny bit by saying that this is why America is getting it's @$$ kicked in so many ways. Our leaders bend us over because we largely have this mentallity we are not politically active anymore we just bitch a lot. Our jobs are going over seas faster than we can crank out students to fill them. The standards of the work being done overseas have now invaded the quality of work being done here and the quality here sucks just as bad. If Jonnie Turban Hat (I don't mean to be racial but I don't want to use any names I know as I really don't want to offend anyone but I will anyway... :sigh: ) can write crappy code and my employer buys it and my job has no guarantees either I'm going to write crappy code to because I don't *need* to write it any better. Americans used to exercise because it fit well into a state of mind known as "preparedness". Americans used to work hard at things that didn't seem to fit into their daily activity because it kept mental prowess fit. Americans used to "buck up" and get it done no matter how hard it might be... We are Americans and we used to FINISH THINGS! I'm horrified at how I'm watching Americans go flat like a pop bottle with no lid. There's no *fizz* left in America and it's not a good thing. Shog this isn't aimed at you and I have meandered (but only slightly) from the OP but I just had to say this. On this board you have always been one of the people who I admired for many reasons. So your response here just surprised me. I had to speak to it a little bit to remind Amerians of the greatness we once embodied. We used to enjoy hard work. Now we do hard work, it works and we still get laid off as we watch our jobs go to India where the quality sucks, the product doesn
code-frog wrote:
You were younger once and did not use need/focus to evaluate things you did you simply did them because it felt good.
This is true. And when i was younger, my parents provided me with food and shelter, gave me an allotment of work each day, and for the rest of the time, i was free, mind and body, to do what i wished (well, to an extent at least). I studied rocks, insects, and trees, i learned to weave willow branches, to dig holes and to pile stones, i took up knitting, crocheting, programming, painting, drawing, i rode my bicycle, i rode my grandfather's motorbikes, i read my Bible and books on anatomy, electronics, construction and wiring codes, the histories of computer hardware and software, and more fiction than i care to recall, i walked for many miles through fields and forest, took naps in the sun and gazed at the stars by night. I learned a lot of things, some out of curiosity, some out of boredom, most out of a combination of the two. And looking back, I found only a little of it at all satisfying. I'm not trying to make an example of myself to anyone, except where i hope they can learn from my mistakes. Each year i look back and shake my head at how foolish i've been in the past twelve months, and each year i find new ways to avoid the mistakes of the past... Yet, i find new mistakes as well. One thing i see again and again is that Life is full of choices, and no matter which way you choose, you always pay the cost in loss of opportunity for the choice you avoided. As a child, i learned more, faster, than i can even imagine now; as a beginning programmer, i was many times more productive... yet, i had not the comfort of a wife, nor the benefit of experience. Perhaps the choice of the former is merely the inevitable result of the latter, but if i had the choice to make again i'd still take it. You make some good points. There is... a terrible amount of laziness around. Apathy. Unwillingness to look beyond the goals that others have set for you. I think it has hurt us as a culture, and may yet hurt us as a country, though that is a topic for another discussion. But what i shy away from, indeed, force myself away from, is the attitude that i must hold myself to the treadmill, always striving for something carnal always just beyond my reach. Because this life will come to an end, and while the time i spend with my wife, or my siblings, or here on CP may not be worth much, it's at least worth something to me, here
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code-frog wrote:
You were younger once and did not use need/focus to evaluate things you did you simply did them because it felt good.
This is true. And when i was younger, my parents provided me with food and shelter, gave me an allotment of work each day, and for the rest of the time, i was free, mind and body, to do what i wished (well, to an extent at least). I studied rocks, insects, and trees, i learned to weave willow branches, to dig holes and to pile stones, i took up knitting, crocheting, programming, painting, drawing, i rode my bicycle, i rode my grandfather's motorbikes, i read my Bible and books on anatomy, electronics, construction and wiring codes, the histories of computer hardware and software, and more fiction than i care to recall, i walked for many miles through fields and forest, took naps in the sun and gazed at the stars by night. I learned a lot of things, some out of curiosity, some out of boredom, most out of a combination of the two. And looking back, I found only a little of it at all satisfying. I'm not trying to make an example of myself to anyone, except where i hope they can learn from my mistakes. Each year i look back and shake my head at how foolish i've been in the past twelve months, and each year i find new ways to avoid the mistakes of the past... Yet, i find new mistakes as well. One thing i see again and again is that Life is full of choices, and no matter which way you choose, you always pay the cost in loss of opportunity for the choice you avoided. As a child, i learned more, faster, than i can even imagine now; as a beginning programmer, i was many times more productive... yet, i had not the comfort of a wife, nor the benefit of experience. Perhaps the choice of the former is merely the inevitable result of the latter, but if i had the choice to make again i'd still take it. You make some good points. There is... a terrible amount of laziness around. Apathy. Unwillingness to look beyond the goals that others have set for you. I think it has hurt us as a culture, and may yet hurt us as a country, though that is a topic for another discussion. But what i shy away from, indeed, force myself away from, is the attitude that i must hold myself to the treadmill, always striving for something carnal always just beyond my reach. Because this life will come to an end, and while the time i spend with my wife, or my siblings, or here on CP may not be worth much, it's at least worth something to me, here
Excellent and of course you point out the other side of the coin that provides the "balance" or the "moderation" to a view (mine) that without balance and moderation would be just as bad as anything else out there. I didn't point it out but all your comments basically hedge it. You cannot possibly prepare for everything that will come your way. It seems the deeper I get in my faith the more things that *do* come my way *that* I am *not* prepared for and indeed life is like that. Being a cook ... naugh I think I'm going to hit you with "Chef" that you are I'm sure in life just as in cooking you are pretty handy with a "substitute" if you don't have exactly what you need. I surmised originally that I was checking you into the boards and the only reason I could is because your post was never intended to be a "Life's Philosophy" however my reply and now your reply present a well-rounded philosophy on life in general. Would I be correct to guess that in you "regret" is a fleeting emotion? It may surface for about 30 seconds but you then stomp it out is there truly is no benefit that comes from regret. Someday I will be buying your dinner and your favorite beer (even if you have never tried it before). :cool: Thanks for the great response!:rose: I checked you into the boards, knowing I was doing it and trusting that you'd be cool with it. You proved your worth in your words! Now I have to go find someone else to :badger: as I watch my laptop blue-screen *iteratively* off to my right... Never have seen that before...:^)
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I understand your philosophy and it certainly adds up but I find "your lack of faith in the force disturbing". Not to wax philosophic but there's just tons of holes here. If you didn't wear a seatbelt until you needed it your dead and your wife is a widow. If you didn't brush your teeth until you had cavities you would have no teeth. You were younger once and did not use need/focus to evaluate things you did you simply did them because it felt good. I could go on and on and you've defended your position almost well enough by saying maybe I'll die first. I just have to say though that in general it's a "me centered" approach to living ( and you certainly have a right to that ). I have found that life will redefine "need" by the moment so saying "If I need..." or "When I need..." is a bad way to go. Now I'm going to rant a tiny bit by saying that this is why America is getting it's @$$ kicked in so many ways. Our leaders bend us over because we largely have this mentallity we are not politically active anymore we just bitch a lot. Our jobs are going over seas faster than we can crank out students to fill them. The standards of the work being done overseas have now invaded the quality of work being done here and the quality here sucks just as bad. If Jonnie Turban Hat (I don't mean to be racial but I don't want to use any names I know as I really don't want to offend anyone but I will anyway... :sigh: ) can write crappy code and my employer buys it and my job has no guarantees either I'm going to write crappy code to because I don't *need* to write it any better. Americans used to exercise because it fit well into a state of mind known as "preparedness". Americans used to work hard at things that didn't seem to fit into their daily activity because it kept mental prowess fit. Americans used to "buck up" and get it done no matter how hard it might be... We are Americans and we used to FINISH THINGS! I'm horrified at how I'm watching Americans go flat like a pop bottle with no lid. There's no *fizz* left in America and it's not a good thing. Shog this isn't aimed at you and I have meandered (but only slightly) from the OP but I just had to say this. On this board you have always been one of the people who I admired for many reasons. So your response here just surprised me. I had to speak to it a little bit to remind Amerians of the greatness we once embodied. We used to enjoy hard work. Now we do hard work, it works and we still get laid off as we watch our jobs go to India where the quality sucks, the product doesn
code-frog wrote:
The standards of the work being done overseas have now invaded the quality of work being done here and the quality here sucks just as bad. If Jonnie Turban Hat (I don't mean to be racial but I don't want to use any names I know as I really don't want to offend anyone but I will anyway... ) can write crappy code and my employer buys it and my job has no guarantees either I'm going to write crappy code to because I don't *need* to write it any better.
How do you know we are writing "crappy" code? Why would so many companies be shifting to India if we were doing such a terrible job? Why would some of the biggest software companies in the world set up centers in India if we were really doing such a terrible job? Why would NASA/Microsoft/Google/Yahoo... hire so many Johnie Turban Hats if they were doing as crappy a job as you claim they are. We take pride in our work. We strive to write as much good quality code as we can or we are able to. Unless you are implying that, by default, all Americans are better at code writing than Indians.
code-frog wrote:
Now we do hard work, it works and we still get laid off as we watch our jobs go to India where the quality sucks, the product doesn't work but our jobs still stay there.One word... SUCKS!!!
Umm, why would you say that the quality of work sucks and the product doesnt work? That's a very generalised statement without proof. You've said that in the previous para as well Perhaps you should come down yourself and check out the standards of work here before commenting like this. Please do refrain from making such generalised statements for which you can offer no solid tangible proof.
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code-frog wrote:
The standards of the work being done overseas have now invaded the quality of work being done here and the quality here sucks just as bad. If Jonnie Turban Hat (I don't mean to be racial but I don't want to use any names I know as I really don't want to offend anyone but I will anyway... ) can write crappy code and my employer buys it and my job has no guarantees either I'm going to write crappy code to because I don't *need* to write it any better.
How do you know we are writing "crappy" code? Why would so many companies be shifting to India if we were doing such a terrible job? Why would some of the biggest software companies in the world set up centers in India if we were really doing such a terrible job? Why would NASA/Microsoft/Google/Yahoo... hire so many Johnie Turban Hats if they were doing as crappy a job as you claim they are. We take pride in our work. We strive to write as much good quality code as we can or we are able to. Unless you are implying that, by default, all Americans are better at code writing than Indians.
code-frog wrote:
Now we do hard work, it works and we still get laid off as we watch our jobs go to India where the quality sucks, the product doesn't work but our jobs still stay there.One word... SUCKS!!!
Umm, why would you say that the quality of work sucks and the product doesnt work? That's a very generalised statement without proof. You've said that in the previous para as well Perhaps you should come down yourself and check out the standards of work here before commenting like this. Please do refrain from making such generalised statements for which you can offer no solid tangible proof.
Well let's see... I worked at Micron Technology for 4+ years and while there I was the U.S. code contact for a huge project being developed by WIPRO. We paid WIPRO *TONS* of money for this project and in return their 1.0 release contained about 300,000 lines of code without a single error handler. When I told them no way, they missed the spec they sent the code back with 200,000 new lines of code: ErrorHandler: On Error Resume Next That was lazy, it sucked and was no solution. We forced them to put in correct and specific error handling and they missed 1.0 by over a month because of it. As the project grew and got larger the code grew and got uglier. It was the most horrid, bloated crap I've ever seen in my life and this was from WIPRO who had given us over 20 Indian Project Managers on site to work with. The code sucked, deal with it. I work with people from Dell, Microsoft and other large American corporations on a very regular basis. I always here the same thing from them. "The code coming from India sucks. We are bringing those jobs back to American and ending ties." If you don't like that too bad. It's not problem your products speak for themselves. If you think I'm making this up ... fine. I really don't care. The news is out in many companies jobs are being brought back because of quality. If you don't believe me now you will soon just watch the headliens in U.S. papers. My statements are hardly generalized. After working with Indian contractors for 4 years and having some really good conversations with many that became friends I can promise you I make no generalizations. But again, I really don't care and sorry but... I won't refrain from anything. Sorry to make you mad guess you'll have to get used to it the same way I had to learn how to lose my house, my job and over $40,000 in savings when I got laid off and 3 Indian contractors took my job. I wasn't happy about that but *I* had to deal with it. 6 months later I was contacted to see if I would come back as a consultant to fix the project. When it was my code it had a down time of .0001% over 4 years and none of that from my code. 6 months after the 3 Indian's took over the downtime (in a manufacturing environment) had risen to over 20%. I told them I had zero interest in helping them and they could sleep in the bed they made. Guess what? They didn't like it and *they* got to deal with it. Looks like in this FUBAR mess known as out sourcing a lot of people don't like what's going on and guess what? They can deal with it.
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Well let's see... I worked at Micron Technology for 4+ years and while there I was the U.S. code contact for a huge project being developed by WIPRO. We paid WIPRO *TONS* of money for this project and in return their 1.0 release contained about 300,000 lines of code without a single error handler. When I told them no way, they missed the spec they sent the code back with 200,000 new lines of code: ErrorHandler: On Error Resume Next That was lazy, it sucked and was no solution. We forced them to put in correct and specific error handling and they missed 1.0 by over a month because of it. As the project grew and got larger the code grew and got uglier. It was the most horrid, bloated crap I've ever seen in my life and this was from WIPRO who had given us over 20 Indian Project Managers on site to work with. The code sucked, deal with it. I work with people from Dell, Microsoft and other large American corporations on a very regular basis. I always here the same thing from them. "The code coming from India sucks. We are bringing those jobs back to American and ending ties." If you don't like that too bad. It's not problem your products speak for themselves. If you think I'm making this up ... fine. I really don't care. The news is out in many companies jobs are being brought back because of quality. If you don't believe me now you will soon just watch the headliens in U.S. papers. My statements are hardly generalized. After working with Indian contractors for 4 years and having some really good conversations with many that became friends I can promise you I make no generalizations. But again, I really don't care and sorry but... I won't refrain from anything. Sorry to make you mad guess you'll have to get used to it the same way I had to learn how to lose my house, my job and over $40,000 in savings when I got laid off and 3 Indian contractors took my job. I wasn't happy about that but *I* had to deal with it. 6 months later I was contacted to see if I would come back as a consultant to fix the project. When it was my code it had a down time of .0001% over 4 years and none of that from my code. 6 months after the 3 Indian's took over the downtime (in a manufacturing environment) had risen to over 20%. I told them I had zero interest in helping them and they could sleep in the bed they made. Guess what? They didn't like it and *they* got to deal with it. Looks like in this FUBAR mess known as out sourcing a lot of people don't like what's going on and guess what? They can deal with it.
Yes, people mess. Companies mess up. I accept that. By the looks of it,WIPRO messed up BIG time. My issue is with the fact that you imply or seem to think that *every* piece of code coming out of India is crap. That's simply not true.If it were, companies like TCS, Infosys,Satyam wouldnt be bagging multi-million dollar contracts. We've got the brains, quality work cannot be far behind. Sorry that you had to lose things close to you the way you did. I know what it feels like, haveing experienced similar losses but for different reasons. May I ask when the incident with WIPRO happened?? ITs funny that jobs are going back to America. More and more Indian students are pursuing their Masters in the US and then staying back to work. Looks like code-frog's worst nightmare:laugh:
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Yes, people mess. Companies mess up. I accept that. By the looks of it,WIPRO messed up BIG time. My issue is with the fact that you imply or seem to think that *every* piece of code coming out of India is crap. That's simply not true.If it were, companies like TCS, Infosys,Satyam wouldnt be bagging multi-million dollar contracts. We've got the brains, quality work cannot be far behind. Sorry that you had to lose things close to you the way you did. I know what it feels like, haveing experienced similar losses but for different reasons. May I ask when the incident with WIPRO happened?? ITs funny that jobs are going back to America. More and more Indian students are pursuing their Masters in the US and then staying back to work. Looks like code-frog's worst nightmare:laugh:
Truth be told many things that start bad end very good. Truth be told I've written more than my share of my crappy code. This was 1999-2003. For me at least the nightmare had some real life implications. Micron laid me off while my daughter was in the hospital and we were smack in the middle of a 3 year fight to keep her alive. I will *NEVER* forgive them for that and I despise American corporate mentallity because of it. I also blame the yellow-spined nature of the U.S. Government as well. We have no trouble dropping bombs and invading other countries to fix their problems but we won't raise a finger to fix our own. The U.S. Economy sure could have done amazing things with all the money that got exploded, fired, shot, etc in Iraq. But I'm a fighter. I'm a die hard. The day I die will be 3 weeks after my body died. I'm self employed now and loving every minute of it. I've been doing it going on 3 years now and sustained about 400% growth each quarter. It turns out that my worst nightmare was the most amazing blessing that could ever happen to me. I'm completely independant and self-sustaining and love it. I am so diversified that I could lose 50% of my business, still pay my bills and just expand in another sector. It's not so much that I think India is crap (but sometimes I do rant a bit). I think that the way the "Global Economy" emerged was done very poorly and in doing it the way U.S. corporations did they crippled their own source of prosperity in the American Middle-Class laborer. I think that India has grown to quickly in the tech sector and really didn't have the manpower or infrastructure to handle the demand with consistent quality. So India has all this work but doesn't have the manpower to deliver consistent quality. As a result they had to fill positions at a very fast pace with under trained developers (who could blame them, you have to do what you have to do at times) and quality suffered. Again I don't blame India (but I'm a cranky outspoken son-of-a-gun) I think the whole process grew way to fast and has many weak areas as a result. Now after an over-elastic growth both India and the U.S. are having to make adjustments. I believe that India needs to turn away from the U.S. as a source of income and they need to innovate on their own. This will take away an artificial dependence on the U.S. and strengthen the Indian Technical sector so that it can be self-sustained. I'd really love to see India emerge as *CONTRIBUTORS* to the world rather than *EMPLOYEES* for the world. Right now you are mainly
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I was trying to prove the following using mathematical induction:
2k+1 - 1 > 2k2 + 2k + 1;
for all k > 4It took me forever (about 3 hrs). At one time I was thrilled when I received any mathematical induction questions because they were normally the easiest problems to solve. I have a feeling that my general mathematical and problem solving ability is deteriorating. Do you have the same feeling and if yes, are you doing about it and if not, how do you maintain your ability?
Debugging is twice as hard as writing the code in the first place. Therefore, if you write the code as cleverly as possible, you are, by definition, not smart enough to debug it. -Brian Kernighan
I'm not exactly sure how to go about this. Ultimately, after showing that for k=n=5 the inequality is true, you have to prove it for k=n+1, right? That boils down to
2(n+2) - 1 > 2n2 + 6n + 5
The left side of the inequality has exponential growth, while the right side has quadratic growth. So of course for all values greater than some critical value c (which can be determined by setting them equal to each other) the left side will always be greater than the right side. Outside of just knowing that exponential growth > quadratic growth, how else can you do this?