WW2 and Japanese
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Like, presumably, children in the US are told about the bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, for example? Or not? I actually know hardly anything about WW2 that didn't occur in Europe. I don't even know what Japan had to do with it. Were they actual part of "WW2" as it happened in Europe, or were they just having a war at the same time? And what was the US doing in any of it?
Sure they are. I was, at least. However, nothing was said about the massive fire-bombings targeting civilians in japanese cities that kill far more than the atomic holocaust. Even less details are given when it comes to the genocide of native americans. The evil spaniards did it all... even if they were kicked out of the continent 200 years before!!! Regarding Europe, the nazis were charged with bombing cities (again targeting civilians) while the allies utterly destroyed everything in their path and not a word of it yet.
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I know exactly what you mean. So, I ask again, do you think the history taught where you live is without bias ?
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ Metal Musings - Rex and my new metal blog
Christian Graus wrote:
I know exactly what you mean. So, I ask again, do you think the history taught where you live is without bias ?
The history books in the schools are designed to make white children feel ashamed and guilty over slavery and the "Civil rights movement".
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DaTxomin wrote:
The most important part IMHO is how people in whatever country behave TODAY.
still doesn't happen. You talk about this as if it is a shock. Folks are no more civilized today than they were 100 years ago, or 200 years ago, or 1000 years ago.
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
They may not be but life in societies that are. While the exploits of destruction have increased dramatically (the soviets, for example, managed to exterminate 100 million of their compatriots), modern societies have advanced also dramatically in terms of individual rights. Things have gotten worse but also better. Besides, if you consider japan, for instance, it is an issue of madness. The japan of today has nothing to do with the japan of 70 years ago. Today's society is far more relaxed and certainly not physically violent in any apparent way.
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The problem is WHO is not guilty of such things. To go off on the japanese because they lost a war while other countries' crimes are ignored is morally absurd.
DaTxomin wrote:
The problem is WHO is not guilty of such things.
Is not about being guilty. It is about glorifying the events, while telling victims but I have apologized. Best regards, Paul.
Jesus Christ is LOVE! Please tell somebody.
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DaTxomin wrote:
The problem is WHO is not guilty of such things.
Is not about being guilty. It is about glorifying the events, while telling victims but I have apologized. Best regards, Paul.
Jesus Christ is LOVE! Please tell somebody.
Are you talking about the crimes committed by your own country? You must be. Please provide a list of crimes, apologies, and proof of absence of self-glorification of your country. It would be nice to hear you are coherent or, at least, that such a magnificent nation of yours actually exists.
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Are you talking about the crimes committed by your own country? You must be. Please provide a list of crimes, apologies, and proof of absence of self-glorification of your country. It would be nice to hear you are coherent or, at least, that such a magnificent nation of yours actually exists.
DaTxomin wrote:
It would be nice to hear you are coherent or, at least, that such a magnificent nation of yours actually exists.
Funny, you think everybody is an Japanese/European/USAmerican? I am a Ghanaian, we have never attacked or commited any crime against nation - prove me wrong or stop the nonsense. Best regards, Paul.
Jesus Christ is LOVE! Please tell somebody.
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I read news that many new generation Japanese do not have a clue on how and what the Japanese had done to hurt people around the world during WW2. Is this how the majority think in Japan? I got a job offer from japan but is worrying about this. I really don't want my child to grow under such an environment.
So do you know who Lt. Calley is? Do you think all American's are capable of what Lt. Calley did and do you think it should always be held against us? Here's a clue for you and you need to catch it. If you want your children to believe and be aware of something (make sure *you* have *your* facts straight first) it's your job to teach them and inform them and *HATE* should have no part in it. If I was going to live in Japan I would embrace their culture and bask in it. If I wanted my children to understand something I'd teach them no matter where I was and I would not leave it up to others to do what I should be doing...
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DaTxomin wrote:
It would be nice to hear you are coherent or, at least, that such a magnificent nation of yours actually exists.
Funny, you think everybody is an Japanese/European/USAmerican? I am a Ghanaian, we have never attacked or commited any crime against nation - prove me wrong or stop the nonsense. Best regards, Paul.
Jesus Christ is LOVE! Please tell somebody.
Paul Selormey wrote:
prove me wrong or stop the nonsense
The nonsense being your moral superiority together with your particular vendetta against japanese? Curious twist to avoid the heart of the issue. Would your _presumably_ (you claim) perfect country justify any arbitrary accusation you make? Hardly although you dearly hope so, it seems. Funny, morover, that YOU say everyone assumes you are Japanese/European/USAmerican. Are you saying that those that you mention are also in your list of evil nations that glorify crimes against humanity (in contrast with your peace loving country, of course)? And, therefore, aren't you basically saying that MOST countries fall short on these issues (you forgot asian/african nations but to insist on their innocence is absurd)? So, the bottom line is, why do YOU make exception on the japanese? There lies the/your nonsense.
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Paul Selormey wrote:
prove me wrong or stop the nonsense
The nonsense being your moral superiority together with your particular vendetta against japanese? Curious twist to avoid the heart of the issue. Would your _presumably_ (you claim) perfect country justify any arbitrary accusation you make? Hardly although you dearly hope so, it seems. Funny, morover, that YOU say everyone assumes you are Japanese/European/USAmerican. Are you saying that those that you mention are also in your list of evil nations that glorify crimes against humanity (in contrast with your peace loving country, of course)? And, therefore, aren't you basically saying that MOST countries fall short on these issues (you forgot asian/african nations but to insist on their innocence is absurd)? So, the bottom line is, why do YOU make exception on the japanese? There lies the/your nonsense.
DaTxomin wrote:
The nonsense being your moral superiority together with your particular vendetta against japanese?
Nonsense, I live and work here in Japan and I have nothing against the Japanese, and I do not know the number of times you have visited here to claim to know more about Japan. At least I listen to news everyday and in Japanese.
DaTxomin wrote:
Curious twist to avoid the heart of the issue.
...and what is the heart of the issue here?
DaTxomin wrote:
Are you saying that those that you mention are also in your list of evil nations that glorify crimes against humanity (in contrast with your peace loving country, of course)?
They seems to follow the pattern you seems to be dragging this topic into, and that no one is qualify to talk about it. You asked (as to whether it is related to the topic - only you can tell)...
It would be nice to hear you are coherent or, at least, that such a magnificent nation of yours actually exists.
...and I provided you one.
DaTxomin wrote:
So, the bottom line is, why do YOU make exception on the japanese? There lies the/your nonsense.
Do I have to remind you of the topic? Best regards, Paul.
Jesus Christ is LOVE! Please tell somebody.
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Sure they are. I was, at least. However, nothing was said about the massive fire-bombings targeting civilians in japanese cities that kill far more than the atomic holocaust. Even less details are given when it comes to the genocide of native americans. The evil spaniards did it all... even if they were kicked out of the continent 200 years before!!! Regarding Europe, the nazis were charged with bombing cities (again targeting civilians) while the allies utterly destroyed everything in their path and not a word of it yet.
DaTxomin wrote:
when it comes to the genocide of native americans. The evil spaniards did it all... even if they were kicked out of the continent 200 years before!!!
actually it continued with medical experimentation and forced sterilization until it was forced to be stopped in the 1970's. Long after the spaniards left. The problem is that perception that all native americans had to die was and still is a very common opinion. There are still senators who try to prevent recognition of native american groups, call them "dogs" and support poisoning of the water supplies because they are not "real people". Things like this exist long after they start. You just don't talk about them, no one really cares if arson, rape and murder is higher against native americans, because it isn't considered a great loss to society, they are not considered "people" by many groups.
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
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Paul Selormey wrote:
But those held responsible for the war are being honored here currently
happens in every country. The soldiers who killed women and children, shot in the back, at Wounded Knee were given the medal of honor for their actions. No one wants to teache a truth that is bad for them. Almost everyone is guilty of attrocities equal to the other countries, we gloss over them in every war, in every conflict, we excuse them even up to the modern day. Truth is irrelevant, to speak out against your own country is against nationalism, and nationalism is the new patriotism in every country. You really don't want to study the real history of most countries. Even Japan has their bloodiest war not in WWII, but in the 100 year war where most of the population of the island was killed... man woman and child alike. The slaughters in Europe are repeated every few generations, just as they are in other countries. You forget, because you want to forget, because it is good to forget. Those who actually study history know that death and carnage is the rule of almost all civilizations throughout history. It is very hard to tell one country to feel guilty for ages when your country didn't want to either.
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
Jeffry J. Brickley wrote:
The soldiers who killed women and children, shot in the back, at Wounded Knee were given the medal of honor for their actions.
Name one or two example, I am interested. Best regards, Paul.
Jesus Christ is LOVE! Please tell somebody.
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DaTxomin wrote:
It would be nice to hear you are coherent or, at least, that such a magnificent nation of yours actually exists.
Funny, you think everybody is an Japanese/European/USAmerican? I am a Ghanaian, we have never attacked or commited any crime against nation - prove me wrong or stop the nonsense. Best regards, Paul.
Jesus Christ is LOVE! Please tell somebody.
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Jeffry J. Brickley wrote:
The soldiers who killed women and children, shot in the back, at Wounded Knee were given the medal of honor for their actions.
Name one or two example, I am interested. Best regards, Paul.
Jesus Christ is LOVE! Please tell somebody.
Paul Selormey wrote:
Name one or two example, I am interested.
for shooting unarmed indians, all injuries were from their own guns. They had the population completely surrounded, but someone forgot to tell them what happens if you shoot at the center of a circle.... There was the claim that the native americans stole guns during the shooting from the soldiers... yet not one rifle had been lifted from a soldier, they all shot each other while firing to massacre the population before them. Austin, William G., Sergeant, Company E, 7th calvalry, issued June 27, 1891: "While the Indians were concealed in a ravine, assisted men on the skirmish line, directing their fire, etc., and using every effort to dislodge the enemy." Clancy, John E., Musician, Company E, First U.S. calvalry, issued January 23, 1892: His citation stated that he had rescued wounded soldiers, twice. Clancy was courtmartialed eight times during his career, twice between the fight at Wounded Knee and the receipt of his medal. Gresham, John C., 1st Lieutenant, 7th calvalry, issued March 26, 1895 because he "Voluntarily led a party into a ravine to dislodge Sioux indians concealed therein. He was wounded during the action." Weinert, Paul H., Corporal, Battery E, First U.S. Artillery , award issued for advancing with Hotchkiss gun into ravine in pursuit of women and children... Weinert later commented: "With his gun less than 300 yards away Weinert's firing inflicted terrible damage, undoubtedly killing and wounding many women and children..."
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
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Paul Selormey wrote:
I am a Ghanaian, we have never attacked or commited any crime against nation
Wasn't Ghana a lynch pin in the slave trade?
The evolution of the human genome is too important to be left to chance.
Tim Craig wrote:
Wasn't Ghana a lynch pin in the slave trade?
What do you mean by "lynch pin"? Best regards, Paul.
Jesus Christ is LOVE! Please tell somebody.
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Jeffry J. Brickley wrote:
The soldiers who killed women and children, shot in the back, at Wounded Knee were given the medal of honor for their actions.
Name one or two example, I am interested. Best regards, Paul.
Jesus Christ is LOVE! Please tell somebody.
Paul Selormey wrote:
I am interested.
"...Well finally the gallant 7th boys pulled themselves together, straightened out, got out of one another's way, out of the way of the battery. There was a cry of 'Remember Custer' and at it they went. Men, women and children fell like hickory nuts after heavy frost. Men, women and children were piled up on that little flat in one confused mass. Blood ran like water...Big Foot's band was converted into good Indians." "...fantastic as it sounds, the surrounding troopers were firing wildly into this seething mass of humanity, subjecting us as well as the Indians to a deadly crossfire while the first volley from the Hotchkiss guns mowed down scores of women and children who had been watching the proceedings." "Few escaped the merciless slaughter dealt out that dreadful day by members of the Seventh calvalry. There was no discrimination of age or sex. Children as well as women with babes in their arms were brought down as far as two miles from the Wounded Knee Crossing."
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
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Paul Selormey wrote:
Name one or two example, I am interested.
for shooting unarmed indians, all injuries were from their own guns. They had the population completely surrounded, but someone forgot to tell them what happens if you shoot at the center of a circle.... There was the claim that the native americans stole guns during the shooting from the soldiers... yet not one rifle had been lifted from a soldier, they all shot each other while firing to massacre the population before them. Austin, William G., Sergeant, Company E, 7th calvalry, issued June 27, 1891: "While the Indians were concealed in a ravine, assisted men on the skirmish line, directing their fire, etc., and using every effort to dislodge the enemy." Clancy, John E., Musician, Company E, First U.S. calvalry, issued January 23, 1892: His citation stated that he had rescued wounded soldiers, twice. Clancy was courtmartialed eight times during his career, twice between the fight at Wounded Knee and the receipt of his medal. Gresham, John C., 1st Lieutenant, 7th calvalry, issued March 26, 1895 because he "Voluntarily led a party into a ravine to dislodge Sioux indians concealed therein. He was wounded during the action." Weinert, Paul H., Corporal, Battery E, First U.S. Artillery , award issued for advancing with Hotchkiss gun into ravine in pursuit of women and children... Weinert later commented: "With his gun less than 300 yards away Weinert's firing inflicted terrible damage, undoubtedly killing and wounding many women and children..."
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
Nice, this is what I knew you are talking about...lead me on... Now, tell me where these were tried, found guilty and sentense to death but are now being honored as heros. As a reminder, where you missed the point is the issue has nothing to do with ordinary Japanese (civilian or army), it is about the leaders of those times. Best regards, Paul.
Jesus Christ is LOVE! Please tell somebody.
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Nice, this is what I knew you are talking about...lead me on... Now, tell me where these were tried, found guilty and sentense to death but are now being honored as heros. As a reminder, where you missed the point is the issue has nothing to do with ordinary Japanese (civilian or army), it is about the leaders of those times. Best regards, Paul.
Jesus Christ is LOVE! Please tell somebody.
Paul Selormey wrote:
As a reminder, where you missed the point is the issue has nothing to do with ordinary Japanese (civilian or army), it is about the leaders of those times.
Most americans then believed all indians should die. It was far more than leaders, and existed well into the late 20th century, and still lives on. Every now and then there are additional attempts to remove or kill native americans to free up their land, or get revenge on past crimes of their forefathers... or just because it is rarely tried to kill a native american, if you don't try a crime, it isn't a crime. Thus arson and murder, rape and other crimes are 10 times higher because they are still paying for the crimes of their forefathers. The crime: living. The only good indian is a dead indian is still a common belief.
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
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Paul Selormey wrote:
As a reminder, where you missed the point is the issue has nothing to do with ordinary Japanese (civilian or army), it is about the leaders of those times.
Most americans then believed all indians should die. It was far more than leaders, and existed well into the late 20th century, and still lives on. Every now and then there are additional attempts to remove or kill native americans to free up their land, or get revenge on past crimes of their forefathers... or just because it is rarely tried to kill a native american, if you don't try a crime, it isn't a crime. Thus arson and murder, rape and other crimes are 10 times higher because they are still paying for the crimes of their forefathers. The crime: living. The only good indian is a dead indian is still a common belief.
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
Jeffry J. Brickley wrote:
Most americans then believed all indians should die.
I cannot speak for the American, but I doubt this, just as I will doubt it was a collective wish of most Japanese/Germans at the time. I have listen to many older Japanese here and most still do not wish to sing their own national anthem claiming it is remnant of the war-past.
Jeffry J. Brickley wrote:
The crime: living. The only good indian is a dead indian is still a common belief.
I do understand your feeling, but just that it is not the subject. Best regards, Paul.
Jesus Christ is LOVE! Please tell somebody.
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I read news that many new generation Japanese do not have a clue on how and what the Japanese had done to hurt people around the world during WW2. Is this how the majority think in Japan? I got a job offer from japan but is worrying about this. I really don't want my child to grow under such an environment.
.jpg wrote:
child to grow under such an environment.
What enviorment are you talking about? Have you ever been to Japan? Japan is one of the coolest places in the world. The Japanese people are some of the kidest people I've had the pleasure of working with and living with.
A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects. - -Lazarus Long, Time Enough For Love
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Jeffry J. Brickley wrote:
Most americans then believed all indians should die.
I cannot speak for the American, but I doubt this, just as I will doubt it was a collective wish of most Japanese/Germans at the time. I have listen to many older Japanese here and most still do not wish to sing their own national anthem claiming it is remnant of the war-past.
Jeffry J. Brickley wrote:
The crime: living. The only good indian is a dead indian is still a common belief.
I do understand your feeling, but just that it is not the subject. Best regards, Paul.
Jesus Christ is LOVE! Please tell somebody.
Paul Selormey wrote:
but I doubt this
Rape, murder and arson, even medical experimentation and sterilization is not a crime against native americans. It is defended as good and proper even to modern times. "Why did these sterilizations take place? In order to understand the reasons behind the sterilizations it is necessary to remember that physicians were performing large numbers of sterilizations not only on American Indian women, but also on African American and Hispanic women. The number of women on [End Page 409] welfare had also increased dramatically since the mid-1960s with Lyndon Johnson's War on Poverty. The main reasons doctors gave for performing these procedures were economic and social in nature. According to a study that the Health Research Group conducted in 1973 and interviews that Doctor Bernard Rosenfeld performed in 1974 and 1975, the majority of physicians were white, Euro-American males who believed that they were helping society by limiting the number of births in low-income, minority families. They assumed that they were enabling the government to cut funding for Medicaid and welfare programs while lessening their own personal tax burden to support the programs. Physicians also increased their own personal income by performing hysterectomies and tubal ligations instead of prescribing alternative methods of birth control. Some of them did not believe that American Indian and other minority women had the intelligence to use other methods of birth control effectively and that there were already too many minority individuals causing problems in the nation, including the Black Panthers and the American Indian Movement. Others wanted to gain experience to specialize in obstetrics and gynecology and used minority women as the means to get that experience at government expense. Medical personnel also believed they were helping these women because limiting the number of children they could have would help minority families to become more financially secure in their own right while also lessening the welfare burden. 30 Various studies revealed that the Indian Health Service sterilized between 25 and 50 percent of Native American women between 1970 and 1976. Dr. Connie Pinkerton-Uri conducted a study that revealed that IHS physicians sterilized at least 25 percent of American Indian women between the ages of fifteen and forty-four."
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. T