What sort of best practices coding do you use?
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Do you/your company enforce best practices? Do you do code reviews to enforce them, or use FxCop or other automated means? If you don't adhere to any best practice document/utility, why not? Would you agree or disagree that most of us don't use coding best practices? Marc
People are just notoriously impossible. --DavidCrow
There's NO excuse for not commenting your code. -- John Simmons / outlaw programmer
People who say that they will refactor their code later to make it "good" don't understand refactoring, nor the art and craft of programming. -- Josh Smith -
Do you/your company enforce best practices? Do you do code reviews to enforce them, or use FxCop or other automated means? If you don't adhere to any best practice document/utility, why not? Would you agree or disagree that most of us don't use coding best practices? Marc
People are just notoriously impossible. --DavidCrow
There's NO excuse for not commenting your code. -- John Simmons / outlaw programmer
People who say that they will refactor their code later to make it "good" don't understand refactoring, nor the art and craft of programming. -- Josh SmithMarc Clifton wrote:
use coding best practices
The best practive is not to allow crap coders near code. Seriously though, dont let crap coders near code. No, but seriously, if you have god engineers, who know their job and you can trust, you dont need any controll at all. Provided you test heavilly. Mind you, drivers are GUI less, with simple interfaces, that go wrong spectacularly. So they are kind of easy to test... Q: 'Did it BSOD yet today?' A: 'No' 'OK, it passed testing'
Truth is the subjection of reality to an individuals perception
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Marc Clifton wrote:
use coding best practices
The best practive is not to allow crap coders near code. Seriously though, dont let crap coders near code. No, but seriously, if you have god engineers, who know their job and you can trust, you dont need any controll at all. Provided you test heavilly. Mind you, drivers are GUI less, with simple interfaces, that go wrong spectacularly. So they are kind of easy to test... Q: 'Did it BSOD yet today?' A: 'No' 'OK, it passed testing'
Truth is the subjection of reality to an individuals perception
fat_boy wrote:
No, but seriously, if you have god engineers, who know their job and you can trust, you dont need any controll at all.
... if God were working for me, I would trust him all right. ;P
Cheers, Vikram.
"Life isn't fair, and the world is full of unscrupulous characters. There are things worth fighting for, killing for and dying for, but it's a really small list. Chalk it up to experience, let it go, and move on to the next positive experience in your life." - Christopher Duncan.
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Do you/your company enforce best practices? Do you do code reviews to enforce them, or use FxCop or other automated means? If you don't adhere to any best practice document/utility, why not? Would you agree or disagree that most of us don't use coding best practices? Marc
People are just notoriously impossible. --DavidCrow
There's NO excuse for not commenting your code. -- John Simmons / outlaw programmer
People who say that they will refactor their code later to make it "good" don't understand refactoring, nor the art and craft of programming. -- Josh SmithI would agree most places don't have best practices. Only one place I've worked at actually does code reviews and that was because they were using the agile programming methodology. It would be nice to work at a place that actually does code reviews because I think it would make people think twice before putting in kludges or failing to comment complicated sections.
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fat_boy wrote:
No, but seriously, if you have god engineers, who know their job and you can trust, you dont need any controll at all.
... if God were working for me, I would trust him all right. ;P
Cheers, Vikram.
"Life isn't fair, and the world is full of unscrupulous characters. There are things worth fighting for, killing for and dying for, but it's a really small list. Chalk it up to experience, let it go, and move on to the next positive experience in your life." - Christopher Duncan.
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Do you/your company enforce best practices? Do you do code reviews to enforce them, or use FxCop or other automated means? If you don't adhere to any best practice document/utility, why not? Would you agree or disagree that most of us don't use coding best practices? Marc
People are just notoriously impossible. --DavidCrow
There's NO excuse for not commenting your code. -- John Simmons / outlaw programmer
People who say that they will refactor their code later to make it "good" don't understand refactoring, nor the art and craft of programming. -- Josh SmithMarc, it is very much like "quality control". The word "quality" is subjective meaning different things to different people. Of course, we all want the highest quality but not everybody is either prepared to pay the extra cost to ensure that quality or time factors do not allow extensive quality testing. In an ideal world you would insist on the very best quality testing procedures, the very best documentation regime, very best coding practices, AND have full and thorough post mortems. Alas, that ideal world don't really exist so you have to minimize any imperfections to an acceptable level - namely that with you can live with.
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Marc, it is very much like "quality control". The word "quality" is subjective meaning different things to different people. Of course, we all want the highest quality but not everybody is either prepared to pay the extra cost to ensure that quality or time factors do not allow extensive quality testing. In an ideal world you would insist on the very best quality testing procedures, the very best documentation regime, very best coding practices, AND have full and thorough post mortems. Alas, that ideal world don't really exist so you have to minimize any imperfections to an acceptable level - namely that with you can live with.
Richard A. Abbott wrote:
Of course, we all want the highest quality
Not necessarily. As you pointed out, there is a balance. But when it comes to quality, I've found that quality can be objective if you recognize that it is not a fixed, intangible goal, but rather a process of continual improvement. More like the way it's defined in TQM and ISO900?, document your current practices and pick something to improve, and repeat. Marc
People are just notoriously impossible. --DavidCrow
There's NO excuse for not commenting your code. -- John Simmons / outlaw programmer
People who say that they will refactor their code later to make it "good" don't understand refactoring, nor the art and craft of programming. -- Josh Smith -
I would agree most places don't have best practices. Only one place I've worked at actually does code reviews and that was because they were using the agile programming methodology. It would be nice to work at a place that actually does code reviews because I think it would make people think twice before putting in kludges or failing to comment complicated sections.
Dustin Metzgar wrote:
It would be nice to work at a place that actually does code reviews because I think it would make people think twice before putting in kludges or failing to comment complicated sections.
I would like it because I feel like I would learn something. But then again, if one is in a position of constantly reviewing code from less senior people, and there really isn't anyone senior to oneself in experience, I guess that's where places like Code Project come in. :) Marc
People are just notoriously impossible. --DavidCrow
There's NO excuse for not commenting your code. -- John Simmons / outlaw programmer
People who say that they will refactor their code later to make it "good" don't understand refactoring, nor the art and craft of programming. -- Josh Smith -
fat_boy wrote:
No, but seriously, if you have god engineers, who know their job and you can trust, you dont need any controll at all.
... if God were working for me, I would trust him all right. ;P
Cheers, Vikram.
"Life isn't fair, and the world is full of unscrupulous characters. There are things worth fighting for, killing for and dying for, but it's a really small list. Chalk it up to experience, let it go, and move on to the next positive experience in your life." - Christopher Duncan.
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Do you/your company enforce best practices? Do you do code reviews to enforce them, or use FxCop or other automated means? If you don't adhere to any best practice document/utility, why not? Would you agree or disagree that most of us don't use coding best practices? Marc
People are just notoriously impossible. --DavidCrow
There's NO excuse for not commenting your code. -- John Simmons / outlaw programmer
People who say that they will refactor their code later to make it "good" don't understand refactoring, nor the art and craft of programming. -- Josh SmithWe're a C++ shop, mostly doing non-UI stuff. We tend to work to Herb Sutter and Alexei Alexandrescus C++ Coding Standards[^]. They are enforced through code review. I think we're the exception rather than the rule - and that's because we're an adjunct to a safety critical software team that works to DO178B level A, so has very stringent standards (we code safety-critical stuff with SPARK Ada[^]).
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Richard A. Abbott wrote:
Of course, we all want the highest quality
Not necessarily. As you pointed out, there is a balance. But when it comes to quality, I've found that quality can be objective if you recognize that it is not a fixed, intangible goal, but rather a process of continual improvement. More like the way it's defined in TQM and ISO900?, document your current practices and pick something to improve, and repeat. Marc
People are just notoriously impossible. --DavidCrow
There's NO excuse for not commenting your code. -- John Simmons / outlaw programmer
People who say that they will refactor their code later to make it "good" don't understand refactoring, nor the art and craft of programming. -- Josh SmithMarc Clifton wrote:
Richard A. Abbott wrote: Of course, we all want the highest quality Not necessarily
To strive for the highest quality must be the overriding driving force for any organisation. But this comes at odds with the concept "Value for Money". [Principle 4 of ISO9000 – risk assessment] Neither ISO9000 nor the BS EN 9000 defines a minimum standard of quality, they specify a structure for a quality management system, and this is a base framework from where to begin the quest for quality. The perception of quality, as I stated earlier, is subjective, subsequently, the management of quality is individual to an organisation. [Principle 4 and Principle 2 of ISO9000] The imposition of quality (or improved quality) from external entities (threats of the loss of marketplace position, threats to the loss of corporate confidence/credibility etc.) is usually the driving force. [Principle 6 and Principle 4 of ISO9000] You might also be interested to know of the existence of The British Quality Foundation [^],and they have an Excellence Model of the "5 P’s" – Purpose, Principles, People, Processes and Performance is also relevant and equates to ISO9000. And the BS EN 9000 is a full British Standard. So it shouldn't be just a case of "document your current practices and pick something to improve, and repeat", it has to be much more than that.
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Do you/your company enforce best practices? Do you do code reviews to enforce them, or use FxCop or other automated means? If you don't adhere to any best practice document/utility, why not? Would you agree or disagree that most of us don't use coding best practices? Marc
People are just notoriously impossible. --DavidCrow
There's NO excuse for not commenting your code. -- John Simmons / outlaw programmer
People who say that they will refactor their code later to make it "good" don't understand refactoring, nor the art and craft of programming. -- Josh SmithWe have turned on FxCop on a large existing code base, so we have thousands of failures that we are slowly getting under control. One of my previous jobs added code reviews and I really liked it. It was effective at improvin quality, and it was always a learning experience from both sides reviewee and reviewer.
Using the GridView is like trying to explain to someone else how to move a third person's hands in order to tie your shoelaces for you. -Chris Maunder
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Dustin Metzgar wrote:
It would be nice to work at a place that actually does code reviews because I think it would make people think twice before putting in kludges or failing to comment complicated sections.
I would like it because I feel like I would learn something. But then again, if one is in a position of constantly reviewing code from less senior people, and there really isn't anyone senior to oneself in experience, I guess that's where places like Code Project come in. :) Marc
People are just notoriously impossible. --DavidCrow
There's NO excuse for not commenting your code. -- John Simmons / outlaw programmer
People who say that they will refactor their code later to make it "good" don't understand refactoring, nor the art and craft of programming. -- Josh SmithMarc Clifton wrote:
I guess that's where places like Code Project come in
So we need a CodeReview forum!!
ed ~"Watch your thoughts; they become your words. Watch your words they become your actions. Watch your actions; they become your habits. Watch your habits; they become your character. Watch your character; it becomes your destiny." -Frank Outlaw.
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Marc Clifton wrote:
Richard A. Abbott wrote: Of course, we all want the highest quality Not necessarily
To strive for the highest quality must be the overriding driving force for any organisation. But this comes at odds with the concept "Value for Money". [Principle 4 of ISO9000 – risk assessment] Neither ISO9000 nor the BS EN 9000 defines a minimum standard of quality, they specify a structure for a quality management system, and this is a base framework from where to begin the quest for quality. The perception of quality, as I stated earlier, is subjective, subsequently, the management of quality is individual to an organisation. [Principle 4 and Principle 2 of ISO9000] The imposition of quality (or improved quality) from external entities (threats of the loss of marketplace position, threats to the loss of corporate confidence/credibility etc.) is usually the driving force. [Principle 6 and Principle 4 of ISO9000] You might also be interested to know of the existence of The British Quality Foundation [^],and they have an Excellence Model of the "5 P’s" – Purpose, Principles, People, Processes and Performance is also relevant and equates to ISO9000. And the BS EN 9000 is a full British Standard. So it shouldn't be just a case of "document your current practices and pick something to improve, and repeat", it has to be much more than that.
Richard A. Abbott wrote:
So it shouldn't be just a case of "document your current practices and pick something to improve, and repeat", it has to be much more than that.
Quite true. Thanks for the correction. And thanks for the ISO quotes. It's nice that someone else at least knows about this stuff. When I went through TQM training and the company I worked for was getting ISO9000 certified, it seemed like I was the only one that bought into the ideas. It met major resistance with the other engineers, but management was pushing it through so that they could sell their equipment in Europe (not without grumbling though, hehe). This was, oh, 14 years ago or so. Anyways, it changed how I thought about programming, and since then, I always try to put some thought into improving the quality of my own work. Being a one-man-shop, no, I don't document how I work. I ought too! Marc
People are just notoriously impossible. --DavidCrow
There's NO excuse for not commenting your code. -- John Simmons / outlaw programmer
People who say that they will refactor their code later to make it "good" don't understand refactoring, nor the art and craft of programming. -- Josh Smith -
Do you/your company enforce best practices? Do you do code reviews to enforce them, or use FxCop or other automated means? If you don't adhere to any best practice document/utility, why not? Would you agree or disagree that most of us don't use coding best practices? Marc
People are just notoriously impossible. --DavidCrow
There's NO excuse for not commenting your code. -- John Simmons / outlaw programmer
People who say that they will refactor their code later to make it "good" don't understand refactoring, nor the art and craft of programming. -- Josh SmithIs one of the most misused issues in the field. Often best practices migrates into programming exactly like person X wants because person X is the boss and the justification is best practices. Deviation from "best" practices becomes an offense. And slowly the code migrates into an unmaintainable heap. But it doesn't matter, the project will be scrapped in a few years and a new guy can dictate "best" practices.
On two occasions I have been asked [by members of Parliament], 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out?' I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question. - Charles Babbage
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Do you/your company enforce best practices? Do you do code reviews to enforce them, or use FxCop or other automated means? If you don't adhere to any best practice document/utility, why not? Would you agree or disagree that most of us don't use coding best practices? Marc
People are just notoriously impossible. --DavidCrow
There's NO excuse for not commenting your code. -- John Simmons / outlaw programmer
People who say that they will refactor their code later to make it "good" don't understand refactoring, nor the art and craft of programming. -- Josh SmithWe have to do peer reviews every 2 or 3 weeks and we must use FXCop. I have to admit I hated it in the first place, but it forces you to take the good habits. Now I actually could not use FXCop just because I learned how to do it "well" or at least compliant :~ . We are actually trying to get the third level of CMMi...
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Dustin Metzgar wrote:
It would be nice to work at a place that actually does code reviews because I think it would make people think twice before putting in kludges or failing to comment complicated sections.
I would like it because I feel like I would learn something. But then again, if one is in a position of constantly reviewing code from less senior people, and there really isn't anyone senior to oneself in experience, I guess that's where places like Code Project come in. :) Marc
People are just notoriously impossible. --DavidCrow
There's NO excuse for not commenting your code. -- John Simmons / outlaw programmer
People who say that they will refactor their code later to make it "good" don't understand refactoring, nor the art and craft of programming. -- Josh SmithThere is code review at the company I work for and it is good and bad. Almost everyone who does .Net programming is on a code review team. Each team is a mix of experienced senior level developers, mid-level developers, and then novices. This approach works well as everyone is learning from everyone else. However, it is detrimental in a way because each group looks at different items more closely than others and as a result application have more trouble meshing will with other applications than they should have. Also, there are two types of comments that code reviewers make. Critical items and recommended. A developer can choose to ignore recommended comments depending on how difficult or time consuming a change, or how lazy the programmer is. The critical items however can only be overturned by two managers. In ways, code review does slow down development but if done right, everyone learns from everyone else and applications follow a certain standard company wide.
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Marc Clifton wrote:
use coding best practices
The best practive is not to allow crap coders near code. Seriously though, dont let crap coders near code. No, but seriously, if you have god engineers, who know their job and you can trust, you dont need any controll at all. Provided you test heavilly. Mind you, drivers are GUI less, with simple interfaces, that go wrong spectacularly. So they are kind of easy to test... Q: 'Did it BSOD yet today?' A: 'No' 'OK, it passed testing'
Truth is the subjection of reality to an individuals perception
-
Do you/your company enforce best practices? Do you do code reviews to enforce them, or use FxCop or other automated means? If you don't adhere to any best practice document/utility, why not? Would you agree or disagree that most of us don't use coding best practices? Marc
People are just notoriously impossible. --DavidCrow
There's NO excuse for not commenting your code. -- John Simmons / outlaw programmer
People who say that they will refactor their code later to make it "good" don't understand refactoring, nor the art and craft of programming. -- Josh Smithwe use most Microsoft best practices with a few exceptions. We put _ in front of class variables (among a few other things).
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Do you/your company enforce best practices? Do you do code reviews to enforce them, or use FxCop or other automated means? If you don't adhere to any best practice document/utility, why not? Would you agree or disagree that most of us don't use coding best practices? Marc
People are just notoriously impossible. --DavidCrow
There's NO excuse for not commenting your code. -- John Simmons / outlaw programmer
People who say that they will refactor their code later to make it "good" don't understand refactoring, nor the art and craft of programming. -- Josh SmithMarc Clifton wrote:
Do you/your company enforce best practices? Do you do code reviews to enforce them, or use FxCop or other automated means?
Well I tried... I tried to get the company to adopt some best practises but I haven't met with much success. I work to my own guidelines for the stuff I write and whilst I can't code-review my own stuff, I do use FxCop where I can. I bet most of use don't fully use coding best practises. We all have our own ways of thinking about what is best which means we soon come into conflict with other people's defined best practises.
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