How emotionally invested are you in your work?
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Just that. No further explanation to that question. :) Marc
People are just notoriously impossible. --DavidCrow
There's NO excuse for not commenting your code. -- John Simmons / outlaw programmer
People who say that they will refactor their code later to make it "good" don't understand refactoring, nor the art and craft of programming. -- Josh Smith34%
BW
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
-- Steven Wright -
34%
BW
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
-- Steven Wrightbrianwelsch wrote:
34%
Har har. :) Marc
People are just notoriously impossible. --DavidCrow
There's NO excuse for not commenting your code. -- John Simmons / outlaw programmer
People who say that they will refactor their code later to make it "good" don't understand refactoring, nor the art and craft of programming. -- Josh Smith -
brianwelsch wrote:
34%
Har har. :) Marc
People are just notoriously impossible. --DavidCrow
There's NO excuse for not commenting your code. -- John Simmons / outlaw programmer
People who say that they will refactor their code later to make it "good" don't understand refactoring, nor the art and craft of programming. -- Josh SmithI wasn't sure how to answer that. :) I don't get too emotional about code anymore, but I do feel a sense of ownership during development/testing. Depending on the amount of time invested in a project I get a puff of pride when it successfully goes live, but rarely do I keep any kind of attachment to my code afterwards.
BW
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
-- Steven Wright -
I wasn't sure how to answer that. :) I don't get too emotional about code anymore, but I do feel a sense of ownership during development/testing. Depending on the amount of time invested in a project I get a puff of pride when it successfully goes live, but rarely do I keep any kind of attachment to my code afterwards.
BW
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
-- Steven Wrightbrianwelsch wrote:
but rarely do I keep any kind of attachment to my code afterwards.
Yeah, I was thinking along the lines of during development. And whether one's emotional investment gets in the way when working on a team. Marc
People are just notoriously impossible. --DavidCrow
There's NO excuse for not commenting your code. -- John Simmons / outlaw programmer
People who say that they will refactor their code later to make it "good" don't understand refactoring, nor the art and craft of programming. -- Josh Smith -
Just that. No further explanation to that question. :) Marc
People are just notoriously impossible. --DavidCrow
There's NO excuse for not commenting your code. -- John Simmons / outlaw programmer
People who say that they will refactor their code later to make it "good" don't understand refactoring, nor the art and craft of programming. -- Josh Smith100%, without a doubt. I'd make a terrible manager, because I'd have a terrible time delegating work. The main reason I have extra work going for evenings and weekends is not money, it's that when people ask me to do something, I start thinking how cool it would be to do it. When I left my first job, the big thing to think through was letting go of the code I'd worked on there. I've done contract work that was never used ( for dumb reasons ) and I've chased people up to try and solve it, not to get more work, but because it bugged me that they may end up not using my code. It was a good thing that my previous day job was so sporadic, I didn't really feel ownership after a while because of some issues in how tasks were assigned, and the simple fact that I had more time with no work to do than I had time working ( I'd work on my own stuff then, obviously ). One thing I hated about working there was that the lead developer would often look over my code and change it. I am all for code review, but for my code to be changed, and often for no good reason that I could see, without me being told why, was just demoralising. The point of review to me is not just to fix the code as much as to improve the way a team does things, so that you all start to become the sum of your parts, as you learn from one another where appropriate. That didn't happen, and I was just frustrated as a result.
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ Metal Musings - Rex and my new metal blog
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Just that. No further explanation to that question. :) Marc
People are just notoriously impossible. --DavidCrow
There's NO excuse for not commenting your code. -- John Simmons / outlaw programmer
People who say that they will refactor their code later to make it "good" don't understand refactoring, nor the art and craft of programming. -- Josh SmithI used to be more emotionally invested after I had talked to a few hundred customers. I had this image of my job making their lives easier along with millions of others. It made the job rewarding. Corporate politics and management changed that for me.
Using the GridView is like trying to explain to someone else how to move a third person's hands in order to tie your shoelaces for you. -Chris Maunder
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Just that. No further explanation to that question. :) Marc
People are just notoriously impossible. --DavidCrow
There's NO excuse for not commenting your code. -- John Simmons / outlaw programmer
People who say that they will refactor their code later to make it "good" don't understand refactoring, nor the art and craft of programming. -- Josh SmithMildly I think? I do thoroughly enjoy planning my work and working my plan. And, when things go bad, but not to bad, I usually enjoy the so-called fire fighting. But, I think I have out grown being emotional toward my bits of code. Also, I have a pretty strict personal policy of trying to leave work at work. To accomplish this I have to try and be as unemotional about work as I can.
A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects. - -Lazarus Long, Time Enough For Love
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Just that. No further explanation to that question. :) Marc
People are just notoriously impossible. --DavidCrow
There's NO excuse for not commenting your code. -- John Simmons / outlaw programmer
People who say that they will refactor their code later to make it "good" don't understand refactoring, nor the art and craft of programming. -- Josh SmithThat depends. If it is some new or system base feature I can get very "invested". If it's just porting some stuff from an old system to a new one I'm mostly bored and not very invested. Marius.
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100%, without a doubt. I'd make a terrible manager, because I'd have a terrible time delegating work. The main reason I have extra work going for evenings and weekends is not money, it's that when people ask me to do something, I start thinking how cool it would be to do it. When I left my first job, the big thing to think through was letting go of the code I'd worked on there. I've done contract work that was never used ( for dumb reasons ) and I've chased people up to try and solve it, not to get more work, but because it bugged me that they may end up not using my code. It was a good thing that my previous day job was so sporadic, I didn't really feel ownership after a while because of some issues in how tasks were assigned, and the simple fact that I had more time with no work to do than I had time working ( I'd work on my own stuff then, obviously ). One thing I hated about working there was that the lead developer would often look over my code and change it. I am all for code review, but for my code to be changed, and often for no good reason that I could see, without me being told why, was just demoralising. The point of review to me is not just to fix the code as much as to improve the way a team does things, so that you all start to become the sum of your parts, as you learn from one another where appropriate. That didn't happen, and I was just frustrated as a result.
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ Metal Musings - Rex and my new metal blog
Christian Graus wrote:
The point of review to me is not just to fix the code as much as to improve the way a team does things, so that you all start to become the sum of your parts, as you learn from one another where appropriate. That didn't happen, and I was just frustrated as a result.
That's how I feel as well. But what if the team (including management and programmers) doesn't appear to care, regardless of how much lip service they give to the idea of code reviews, style guidelines, etc? I've worked in many environments like that, it seems. Marc
People are just notoriously impossible. --DavidCrow
There's NO excuse for not commenting your code. -- John Simmons / outlaw programmer
People who say that they will refactor their code later to make it "good" don't understand refactoring, nor the art and craft of programming. -- Josh Smith -
I used to be more emotionally invested after I had talked to a few hundred customers. I had this image of my job making their lives easier along with millions of others. It made the job rewarding. Corporate politics and management changed that for me.
Using the GridView is like trying to explain to someone else how to move a third person's hands in order to tie your shoelaces for you. -Chris Maunder
Andy Brummer wrote:
Corporate politics and management changed that for me.
Aye, I hear that. Marc
People are just notoriously impossible. --DavidCrow
There's NO excuse for not commenting your code. -- John Simmons / outlaw programmer
People who say that they will refactor their code later to make it "good" don't understand refactoring, nor the art and craft of programming. -- Josh Smith -
Mildly I think? I do thoroughly enjoy planning my work and working my plan. And, when things go bad, but not to bad, I usually enjoy the so-called fire fighting. But, I think I have out grown being emotional toward my bits of code. Also, I have a pretty strict personal policy of trying to leave work at work. To accomplish this I have to try and be as unemotional about work as I can.
A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects. - -Lazarus Long, Time Enough For Love
Chris Austin wrote:
Also, I have a pretty strict personal policy of trying to leave work at work. To accomplish this I have to try and be as unemotional about work as I can.
Hmmm. I find that difficult to do when working at home as a consultant. Marc
People are just notoriously impossible. --DavidCrow
There's NO excuse for not commenting your code. -- John Simmons / outlaw programmer
People who say that they will refactor their code later to make it "good" don't understand refactoring, nor the art and craft of programming. -- Josh Smith -
That depends. If it is some new or system base feature I can get very "invested". If it's just porting some stuff from an old system to a new one I'm mostly bored and not very invested. Marius.
marius_romanus wrote:
If it is some new or system base feature I can get very "invested".
I'm definitely that way too. The design is done in a certain way for what I feel are very good reasons. To have design elements taken out, making the objects more entangled and application dependent, for no other reason than that they make the code a bit more complex, well, that's frustrating. So, I wonder why I even bother doing design, if it's clear that management feels the code can be refactored later and corners can be cut now. :sigh: Marc
People are just notoriously impossible. --DavidCrow
There's NO excuse for not commenting your code. -- John Simmons / outlaw programmer
People who say that they will refactor their code later to make it "good" don't understand refactoring, nor the art and craft of programming. -- Josh Smith -
Christian Graus wrote:
The point of review to me is not just to fix the code as much as to improve the way a team does things, so that you all start to become the sum of your parts, as you learn from one another where appropriate. That didn't happen, and I was just frustrated as a result.
That's how I feel as well. But what if the team (including management and programmers) doesn't appear to care, regardless of how much lip service they give to the idea of code reviews, style guidelines, etc? I've worked in many environments like that, it seems. Marc
People are just notoriously impossible. --DavidCrow
There's NO excuse for not commenting your code. -- John Simmons / outlaw programmer
People who say that they will refactor their code later to make it "good" don't understand refactoring, nor the art and craft of programming. -- Josh SmithI've tried to make code reviews happen in the past and was laughed to scorn. My current job has been the first to take this idea seriously. There's not much you can do about that. But, I'd prefer no review to a 'silent' one. Especially as the changes were all a matter of form more than substance, I am ALL in favour of coding standards, but I need to know about them if I am to stick to them.
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ Metal Musings - Rex and my new metal blog
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brianwelsch wrote:
but rarely do I keep any kind of attachment to my code afterwards.
Yeah, I was thinking along the lines of during development. And whether one's emotional investment gets in the way when working on a team. Marc
People are just notoriously impossible. --DavidCrow
There's NO excuse for not commenting your code. -- John Simmons / outlaw programmer
People who say that they will refactor their code later to make it "good" don't understand refactoring, nor the art and craft of programming. -- Josh SmithI used to get more protective of my code during shared development, but have come to realize it was a reaction based partially on insecurity of my abilities. Now, I just get upset if someone breaks my code, but if they are in there adding some other functionality, that's fine. Basically, if another dev's work doesn't cause more work for me, I'm happy. If you have questions on what I coded, just ask me about it. This is where good relationships with your group is key.
BW
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
-- Steven Wright -
Chris Austin wrote:
Also, I have a pretty strict personal policy of trying to leave work at work. To accomplish this I have to try and be as unemotional about work as I can.
Hmmm. I find that difficult to do when working at home as a consultant. Marc
People are just notoriously impossible. --DavidCrow
There's NO excuse for not commenting your code. -- John Simmons / outlaw programmer
People who say that they will refactor their code later to make it "good" don't understand refactoring, nor the art and craft of programming. -- Josh SmithMarc Clifton wrote:
I find that difficult to do when working at home as a consultant.
Yeah, I'm hearing you. My wife invites people over for dinner so she can get me to stay out of the office in the evenings.
Christian Graus - Microsoft MVP - C++ Metal Musings - Rex and my new metal blog
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Chris Austin wrote:
Also, I have a pretty strict personal policy of trying to leave work at work. To accomplish this I have to try and be as unemotional about work as I can.
Hmmm. I find that difficult to do when working at home as a consultant. Marc
People are just notoriously impossible. --DavidCrow
There's NO excuse for not commenting your code. -- John Simmons / outlaw programmer
People who say that they will refactor their code later to make it "good" don't understand refactoring, nor the art and craft of programming. -- Josh SmithMarc Clifton wrote:
Hmmm. I find that difficult to do when working at home as a consultant
I am doing the same these days. I guess I should have been a little less metaphoric ( is that a word?). What I mean by leaving work at work is limiting the amount that it bleeds into my time with the wife and boy. I used to be extremely emotional about my work, to the point that if I had a bad day at work, everyone at home had a bad evening. I love designing and building software, I just don’t want the frequent bad moments to turn me into an a-hole when I am working or trying to enjoy an evening stroll with my family.
A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects. - -Lazarus Long, Time Enough For Love
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Just that. No further explanation to that question. :) Marc
People are just notoriously impossible. --DavidCrow
There's NO excuse for not commenting your code. -- John Simmons / outlaw programmer
People who say that they will refactor their code later to make it "good" don't understand refactoring, nor the art and craft of programming. -- Josh SmithRemember that "weeping indian" ad? Yeah, that's me when i see cluttered, thoughtless code. A single tear, rolling slowly down my CRT radiation-weathered face. That's how emotionally invested i am in my work.
every night, i kneel at the foot of my bed and thank the Great Overseeing Politicians for protecting my freedoms by reducing their number, as if they were deer in a state park. -- Chris Losinger, Online Poker Players?
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Just that. No further explanation to that question. :) Marc
People are just notoriously impossible. --DavidCrow
There's NO excuse for not commenting your code. -- John Simmons / outlaw programmer
People who say that they will refactor their code later to make it "good" don't understand refactoring, nor the art and craft of programming. -- Josh SmithI would say I am passionate about it. I did have a manager tell me several years ago that I would be a much better employee if I would learn not to care so much. I will not let the corporation control the kind of person I am (well not too much. ;P .)
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Just that. No further explanation to that question. :) Marc
People are just notoriously impossible. --DavidCrow
There's NO excuse for not commenting your code. -- John Simmons / outlaw programmer
People who say that they will refactor their code later to make it "good" don't understand refactoring, nor the art and craft of programming. -- Josh SmithHeavily, which is why I don't do tech support directly any more. It's hard to take the way people act sometimes when they're being dickheads for no apparent reason out of the blue. 99% of the people are really nice, but the 1% that start a support request with "Your software is crap, I can't figure out how to....." Really piss me off on a personal level.
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marius_romanus wrote:
If it is some new or system base feature I can get very "invested".
I'm definitely that way too. The design is done in a certain way for what I feel are very good reasons. To have design elements taken out, making the objects more entangled and application dependent, for no other reason than that they make the code a bit more complex, well, that's frustrating. So, I wonder why I even bother doing design, if it's clear that management feels the code can be refactored later and corners can be cut now. :sigh: Marc
People are just notoriously impossible. --DavidCrow
There's NO excuse for not commenting your code. -- John Simmons / outlaw programmer
People who say that they will refactor their code later to make it "good" don't understand refactoring, nor the art and craft of programming. -- Josh SmithMarc Clifton wrote:
So, I wonder why I even bother doing design, if it's clear that management feels the code can be refactored later and corners can be cut now.
Management often has this "feeling". Sad but true. In my team we had a dedicated designer until last year. She had very good ideas and great knowledge about the different system parts. But...she ran against management walls... Then she left the company and with it IT completely. After this, another member - already 10 years with the company - was "entitled" the new designer. ...He will leave us end of October. :( I still hope some day mamagement will change its views... Marius