So, the US and Iraq. What do you rekon?
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I give it a month, then it gets split into three regions, virtual autonomous, nominally controlled by a 'central government' in Baghdad. That way the US can say it didnt 'partition' Iraq, but can get out sooner, a civil war is averted, and the cvililian death rate drops. With 80 US troops dead so far this month, the US is heading for a thousand dead a year. And thats a figure that isgoping to force Bush to be 'flexible' on strategy. ie, do a U turn, but dress it up to look like success.
Truth is the subjection of reality to an individuals perception
fat_boy wrote:
With 80 US troops dead so far this month, the US is heading for a thousand dead a year.
The funny thing about that statement ... more civilians die in the US each year from car crashes (in fact, over 40x as many) than soldiers in a war zone. Honestly, Iraq needs a civil war to get some of this mess straightened out. The US and the UN need to back out and let them duke out their own problems (about the only thing the US really needs to do is prevent other neighboring countries from interfering and influencing the outcome). I say, take away their high powered weapons and let them all duke it out. The winner gets to decide how to set up their government in true "democratic" fashion.
If you decide to become a software engineer, you are signing up to have a 1/2" piece of silicon tell you exactly how stupid you really are for 8 hours a day, 5 days a week Zac
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Mike Gaskey wrote:
This is war and the count is far surpas
Erm, an illegal invasion isn't it? It's certainly not a war.
AndyKEnZ wrote:
illegal invasion isn't it?
Not to be nit-picky here ... but who determines "legal" in terms of world politics?
If you decide to become a software engineer, you are signing up to have a 1/2" piece of silicon tell you exactly how stupid you really are for 8 hours a day, 5 days a week Zac
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fat_boy wrote:
With 80 US troops dead so far this month, the US is heading for a thousand dead a year.
The funny thing about that statement ... more civilians die in the US each year from car crashes (in fact, over 40x as many) than soldiers in a war zone. Honestly, Iraq needs a civil war to get some of this mess straightened out. The US and the UN need to back out and let them duke out their own problems (about the only thing the US really needs to do is prevent other neighboring countries from interfering and influencing the outcome). I say, take away their high powered weapons and let them all duke it out. The winner gets to decide how to set up their government in true "democratic" fashion.
If you decide to become a software engineer, you are signing up to have a 1/2" piece of silicon tell you exactly how stupid you really are for 8 hours a day, 5 days a week Zac
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I don't think Turkey will tolerate a formally distinct Kurdish region (and Kurds will want to cecede completely), and the Sunnis will not accept an oil-poor third (and neither kurds nor Sunnis will trust a majority Shia central government to fairly apportion oil revenues). Division would gaurantee a civil war, with Iran and Turkey (and possibly Syria) meddling in the outcome. Therefore, it's not going to happen... And at the moment, Shia and Sunni are more interested in killing each other than in how the geography/government is going to end up. I am beginning to believe they both deserved Saddam, and are too uncivilized to govern themselves.
Thats why IO stated 'nominally under a centralised government in Baghdad'. If not Turkey will have a fit. I think the US is going to have to give the Sunis an oil filed or two. Perhaps fiddle the borders a bit.
Rob Graham wrote:
I am beginning to believe they both deserved Saddam, and are too uncivilized to govern themselves.
I have posted this opinion form a friend of my dads who was a Major in the British Army there in the 30's. They are, according to him, ungovernable animals.
Truth is the subjection of reality to an individuals perception
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AndyKEnZ wrote:
illegal invasion isn't it?
Not to be nit-picky here ... but who determines "legal" in terms of world politics?
If you decide to become a software engineer, you are signing up to have a 1/2" piece of silicon tell you exactly how stupid you really are for 8 hours a day, 5 days a week Zac
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fat_boy wrote:
With 80 US troops dead so far this month, the US is heading for a thousand dead a year.
The funny thing about that statement ... more civilians die in the US each year from car crashes (in fact, over 40x as many) than soldiers in a war zone. Honestly, Iraq needs a civil war to get some of this mess straightened out. The US and the UN need to back out and let them duke out their own problems (about the only thing the US really needs to do is prevent other neighboring countries from interfering and influencing the outcome). I say, take away their high powered weapons and let them all duke it out. The winner gets to decide how to set up their government in true "democratic" fashion.
If you decide to become a software engineer, you are signing up to have a 1/2" piece of silicon tell you exactly how stupid you really are for 8 hours a day, 5 days a week Zac
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I give it a month, then it gets split into three regions, virtual autonomous, nominally controlled by a 'central government' in Baghdad. That way the US can say it didnt 'partition' Iraq, but can get out sooner, a civil war is averted, and the cvililian death rate drops. With 80 US troops dead so far this month, the US is heading for a thousand dead a year. And thats a figure that isgoping to force Bush to be 'flexible' on strategy. ie, do a U turn, but dress it up to look like success.
Truth is the subjection of reality to an individuals perception
With civil war beckoning, I would suggest that all foreign armed forces withdrew from Iraq and let the Iraqis have their civil war. At the conclusion of that civil war we will need to establish our responses to whatever situation we find. By keeping UK & USA armed forces there is just delaying the inevitable whilst still suffering unnecessary daily casualties. The only strong man in Iraq was its former President. But he is no longer all powerful, but he could have been the person to pull together Iraq but that would not be permitted by external politicals.
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Wasn't it something like the Geneva convention? There plenty of web resource out there just Google for "supreme war crime".
The Geneva Conventions aren't "international law". It's a set of treaties to which the signatories agreed to abide by in time of war, making it a set of national laws. It also doesn't address invasion (to my knowledge), but rather permissable behavior during wartime. Since it's a treaty, any nation that gives itself permission to wage war does so legally at their own national level (as the US did).
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Thats why IO stated 'nominally under a centralised government in Baghdad'. If not Turkey will have a fit. I think the US is going to have to give the Sunis an oil filed or two. Perhaps fiddle the borders a bit.
Rob Graham wrote:
I am beginning to believe they both deserved Saddam, and are too uncivilized to govern themselves.
I have posted this opinion form a friend of my dads who was a Major in the British Army there in the 30's. They are, according to him, ungovernable animals.
Truth is the subjection of reality to an individuals perception
fat_boy wrote:
I think the US is going to have to give the Sunis an oil filed or two.
Do you think they would settle for Venezuela?
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Wasn't it something like the Geneva convention? There plenty of web resource out there just Google for "supreme war crime".
If you want to quibble over legallity, the second gulf war was technically a legal continuation of the first gulf war. The first was never settled with a peace treaty, only a cease fire agreement. And by any measure, Iraq was in violation of that cease fire agreement...no ones permission was needed to resume hostilities..;P
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AndyKEnZ wrote:
illegal invasion isn't it?
Not to be nit-picky here ... but who determines "legal" in terms of world politics?
If you decide to become a software engineer, you are signing up to have a 1/2" piece of silicon tell you exactly how stupid you really are for 8 hours a day, 5 days a week Zac
CNN and the BBC.
Ryan
"Michael Moore and Mel Gibson are the same person, except for a few sit-ups. Moore thought his cheesy political blooper reel was going to tell people how to vote. Mel thought that his little gay SM movie about his imaginary friend was going to help him get to heaven." - Penn Jillette
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fat_boy wrote:
I give it a month, then it gets split into three regions
$10 says you're wrong.
fat_boy wrote:
With 80 US troops dead so far this month, the US is heading for a thousand dead a year
This is war and the count is far surpassed by traffic deaths, no change unless we elect cowards on 11-7.
Mike Dear NYT - the fact is, the founding fathers hung traitors. Vincent Reynolds: My opposition is as enlightened as your support, jackass. dennisd45: My view of the world is slightly more nuanced dennisd45 (the NAMBLA supporter) wrote: I know exactly what it means. So shut up you mother killing baby raper.
Mike Gaskey wrote:
This is war and the count is far surpassed by traffic deaths
This "war" is being waged in the name of fighting terrorism, and the terrorism body count is also far exceeded by traffic deaths. Why didn't we invade Detroit?
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Mike Gaskey wrote:
This is war and the count is far surpassed by traffic deaths
This "war" is being waged in the name of fighting terrorism, and the terrorism body count is also far exceeded by traffic deaths. Why didn't we invade Detroit?
Vincent Reynolds wrote:
Why didn't we invade Detroit?
Oh don't be silly. Everyone knows that the Auto Industry lobby is far more powerful than the Defense Industry's. :rolleyes:
God existing isn't entirely impossible, but there's absolutely no evidence for it, so... the personal God as described by the Christian Bible existing is just as likely as a Pink Unicorn having created the universe, oh.. say... last Thursday. It's equally possible the moon has a core made of cheese. It's equally possible this sentence is in Spanish when you're not looking. - Someone on the Internet
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Mike Gaskey wrote:
This is war and the count is far surpassed by traffic deaths
This "war" is being waged in the name of fighting terrorism, and the terrorism body count is also far exceeded by traffic deaths. Why didn't we invade Detroit?
Vincent Reynolds wrote:
Why didn't we invade Detroit?
Perhaps because murder and death aren't quite the same things?
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Mike Gaskey wrote:
This is war and the count is far surpassed by traffic deaths
This "war" is being waged in the name of fighting terrorism, and the terrorism body count is also far exceeded by traffic deaths. Why didn't we invade Detroit?
Vincent Reynolds wrote:
Why didn't we invade Detroit?
liberals would bitch.
Mike Dear NYT - the fact is, the founding fathers hung traitors. Vincent Reynolds: My opposition is as enlightened as your support, jackass. dennisd45: My view of the world is slightly more nuanced dennisd45 (the NAMBLA supporter) wrote: I know exactly what it means. So shut up you mother killing baby raper.
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Mike Gaskey wrote:
This is war and the count is far surpas
Erm, an illegal invasion isn't it? It's certainly not a war.
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Vincent Reynolds wrote:
Why didn't we invade Detroit?
Perhaps because murder and death aren't quite the same things?
Red Stateler wrote:
Perhaps because murder and death aren't quite the same things?
Mike Gaskey wrote:
This is war and the count is far surpassed by traffic deaths
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Wasn't it something like the Geneva convention? There plenty of web resource out there just Google for "supreme war crime".
AndyKEnZ wrote:
Wasn't it something like the Geneva convention? There plenty of web resource out there just Google for "supreme war crime".
Only the losers in war are subjected to such regulations. The Geneva Convention was an agreement between nations to not use certain tactics during war ... and it is violated regularly by almost every signer.
If you decide to become a software engineer, you are signing up to have a 1/2" piece of silicon tell you exactly how stupid you really are for 8 hours a day, 5 days a week Zac
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What on earth is an "illegal invasion" and why would it mean it's not a war?
if a 25 year old beats up a 2 year old, you don't call it a fight, do you?
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CNN and the BBC.
Ryan
"Michael Moore and Mel Gibson are the same person, except for a few sit-ups. Moore thought his cheesy political blooper reel was going to tell people how to vote. Mel thought that his little gay SM movie about his imaginary friend was going to help him get to heaven." - Penn Jillette
Ryan Roberts wrote:
CNN and the BBC.
Ah, yes ... lets have the media determine the legality of actions. :sigh:
If you decide to become a software engineer, you are signing up to have a 1/2" piece of silicon tell you exactly how stupid you really are for 8 hours a day, 5 days a week Zac