Code I Hate
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John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
Afterall, we can always come back and clean it up later
i can't remember ever working on a project where that's happened. maybe sometimes i get lucky and can clean it up in the context of working on some other feature, but there's never time set aside specifically to fix the mess we made the first time around.
Chris Losinger wrote:
i can't remember ever working on a project where that's happened.
Same here. It is very hard to present a business case for reimplementing something that works from the user perspective.
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Classic short term thinking, common in all aspects of the corporate world. I could write a book about such nonsense. No, wait... :-D
Author of The Career Programmer and Unite the Tribes www.PracticalStrategyConsulting.com
Christopher Duncan wrote:
I could write a book about such nonsense.
Pfft, I'll believe it when I see it.
Jeremy Falcon A multithreaded, OpenGL-enabled application.[^]
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Most of you probably already know - code written by someone that lives by the mantra "Let's make it work now, and worry about proper design later. Afterall, we can always come back and clean it up later". Code like this eventually becomes so mired in bad practice and execution that everyone's afraid to touch it, and most of it is scatter all to hell and back wth no hope of anything fixing the situation short of a complete freakin re-write. Of course, you're so low on the food/command chain that anything you say will be rebuffed as if you'd only been programming for a few freakin days. Everyone wants a working product, but nobody's concerned about the ramifications of maintainability by THE NEW PEOPLE THEY'RE GOING TO HIRE WHEN I QUIT!
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001 -
Christopher Duncan wrote:
I could write a book about such nonsense.
Pfft, I'll believe it when I see it.
Jeremy Falcon A multithreaded, OpenGL-enabled application.[^]
:omg: You can read? This changes everything!
Author of The Career Programmer and Unite the Tribes www.PracticalStrategyConsulting.com
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:omg: You can read? This changes everything!
Author of The Career Programmer and Unite the Tribes www.PracticalStrategyConsulting.com
Christopher Duncan wrote:
You can read?
Hey, I didn't say anything about reading it. :)
Jeremy Falcon A multithreaded, OpenGL-enabled application.[^]
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Christopher Duncan wrote:
You can read?
Hey, I didn't say anything about reading it. :)
Jeremy Falcon A multithreaded, OpenGL-enabled application.[^]
:laugh:
Author of The Career Programmer and Unite the Tribes www.PracticalStrategyConsulting.com
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Most of you probably already know - code written by someone that lives by the mantra "Let's make it work now, and worry about proper design later. Afterall, we can always come back and clean it up later". Code like this eventually becomes so mired in bad practice and execution that everyone's afraid to touch it, and most of it is scatter all to hell and back wth no hope of anything fixing the situation short of a complete freakin re-write. Of course, you're so low on the food/command chain that anything you say will be rebuffed as if you'd only been programming for a few freakin days. Everyone wants a working product, but nobody's concerned about the ramifications of maintainability by THE NEW PEOPLE THEY'RE GOING TO HIRE WHEN I QUIT!
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001It's amazing how many have no time to do it right, but have plenty of time to do it over.
"Approved Workmen Are Not Ashamed" - 2 Timothy 2:15
"Judge not by the eye but by the heart." - Native American Proverb
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John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
Afterall, we can always come back and clean it up later
i can't remember ever working on a project where that's happened. maybe sometimes i get lucky and can clean it up in the context of working on some other feature, but there's never time set aside specifically to fix the mess we made the first time around.
Chris Losinger wrote:
there's never time set aside specifically to fix the mess we made the first time around.
Sure there is. It's called version 2.0. :-D
Author of The Career Programmer and Unite the Tribes www.PracticalStrategyConsulting.com
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Most of you probably already know - code written by someone that lives by the mantra "Let's make it work now, and worry about proper design later. Afterall, we can always come back and clean it up later". Code like this eventually becomes so mired in bad practice and execution that everyone's afraid to touch it, and most of it is scatter all to hell and back wth no hope of anything fixing the situation short of a complete freakin re-write. Of course, you're so low on the food/command chain that anything you say will be rebuffed as if you'd only been programming for a few freakin days. Everyone wants a working product, but nobody's concerned about the ramifications of maintainability by THE NEW PEOPLE THEY'RE GOING TO HIRE WHEN I QUIT!
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001I didn't know we worked at the same place.
On two occasions I have been asked [by members of Parliament], 'Pray, Mr. Babbage, if you put into the machine wrong figures, will the right answers come out?' I am not able rightly to apprehend the kind of confusion of ideas that could provoke such a question. - Charles Babbage
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Chris Losinger wrote:
there's never time set aside specifically to fix the mess we made the first time around.
Sure there is. It's called version 2.0. :-D
Author of The Career Programmer and Unite the Tribes www.PracticalStrategyConsulting.com
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Most of you probably already know - code written by someone that lives by the mantra "Let's make it work now, and worry about proper design later. Afterall, we can always come back and clean it up later". Code like this eventually becomes so mired in bad practice and execution that everyone's afraid to touch it, and most of it is scatter all to hell and back wth no hope of anything fixing the situation short of a complete freakin re-write. Of course, you're so low on the food/command chain that anything you say will be rebuffed as if you'd only been programming for a few freakin days. Everyone wants a working product, but nobody's concerned about the ramifications of maintainability by THE NEW PEOPLE THEY'RE GOING TO HIRE WHEN I QUIT!
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001 -
Most of you probably already know - code written by someone that lives by the mantra "Let's make it work now, and worry about proper design later. Afterall, we can always come back and clean it up later". Code like this eventually becomes so mired in bad practice and execution that everyone's afraid to touch it, and most of it is scatter all to hell and back wth no hope of anything fixing the situation short of a complete freakin re-write. Of course, you're so low on the food/command chain that anything you say will be rebuffed as if you'd only been programming for a few freakin days. Everyone wants a working product, but nobody's concerned about the ramifications of maintainability by THE NEW PEOPLE THEY'RE GOING TO HIRE WHEN I QUIT!
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001Always enough time to do it over, but never enough to do it right. Certainly been there before :((
only two letters away from being an asset
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Most of you probably already know - code written by someone that lives by the mantra "Let's make it work now, and worry about proper design later. Afterall, we can always come back and clean it up later". Code like this eventually becomes so mired in bad practice and execution that everyone's afraid to touch it, and most of it is scatter all to hell and back wth no hope of anything fixing the situation short of a complete freakin re-write. Of course, you're so low on the food/command chain that anything you say will be rebuffed as if you'd only been programming for a few freakin days. Everyone wants a working product, but nobody's concerned about the ramifications of maintainability by THE NEW PEOPLE THEY'RE GOING TO HIRE WHEN I QUIT!
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
Everyone wants a working product, but nobody's concerned about the ramifications of maintainability by THE NEW PEOPLE THEY'RE GOING TO HIRE WHEN I QUIT!
And they wonder why I enjoy many a :beer:... What can actually be done though. Seriously. We all have to get our bread and butter. Do we just bite the bullet and spend the wee hours burning midnight oil to put in the extra time to make it right? We're talking about design really. And the idea that if your not coding then your not working. How about the fact that amortizing the design time across the "What the hell" time that you get when winging it, it would probably work out to being just a little under. Meaning taking the initiative initially to design first, then stick to the design when coding it would equate to just a little less time than just hacking away at it til it works. Debugging should go quicker under a designed app. I think we need some subtle subterfuge to sneak in the design. The problem I have is that the requirements change and are very slim at design time. Such that the design you snuck in breaks as the real requirements are fleshed out. Its a battle. And you've got to have your armor. And they wonder why I enjoy many a :beer:... Nothing like being paid well to feel like a powerless monkey.
This statement is false.
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:omg: You can read? This changes everything!
Author of The Career Programmer and Unite the Tribes www.PracticalStrategyConsulting.com
It's a rarity in the South, but it does occaisonally happen. Ditto for dental appointments, steering clear of sexual relations with siblings, etc. (ducks and runs....) :)
¡El diablo está en mis pantalones! ¡Mire, mire! Real Mentats use only 100% pure, unfooled around with Sapho Juice(tm)! SELECT * FROM User WHERE Clue > 0 0 rows returned Save an Orange - Use the VCF! Techno Silliness
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It's a rarity in the South, but it does occaisonally happen. Ditto for dental appointments, steering clear of sexual relations with siblings, etc. (ducks and runs....) :)
¡El diablo está en mis pantalones! ¡Mire, mire! Real Mentats use only 100% pure, unfooled around with Sapho Juice(tm)! SELECT * FROM User WHERE Clue > 0 0 rows returned Save an Orange - Use the VCF! Techno Silliness
Jim Crafton wrote:
It's a rarity in the South, but it does occaisonally happen. Ditto for dental appointments, steering clear of sexual relations with siblings, etc.
But, at least us southerns know what grits are. :-D
Jeremy Falcon A multithreaded, OpenGL-enabled application.[^]
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Jim Crafton wrote:
It's a rarity in the South, but it does occaisonally happen. Ditto for dental appointments, steering clear of sexual relations with siblings, etc.
But, at least us southerns know what grits are. :-D
Jeremy Falcon A multithreaded, OpenGL-enabled application.[^]
True enough! Never misunderestimate the power of some good grits!
¡El diablo está en mis pantalones! ¡Mire, mire! Real Mentats use only 100% pure, unfooled around with Sapho Juice(tm)! SELECT * FROM User WHERE Clue > 0 0 rows returned Save an Orange - Use the VCF! Techno Silliness
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Most of you probably already know - code written by someone that lives by the mantra "Let's make it work now, and worry about proper design later. Afterall, we can always come back and clean it up later". Code like this eventually becomes so mired in bad practice and execution that everyone's afraid to touch it, and most of it is scatter all to hell and back wth no hope of anything fixing the situation short of a complete freakin re-write. Of course, you're so low on the food/command chain that anything you say will be rebuffed as if you'd only been programming for a few freakin days. Everyone wants a working product, but nobody's concerned about the ramifications of maintainability by THE NEW PEOPLE THEY'RE GOING TO HIRE WHEN I QUIT!
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001I really, really, really can relate to that.
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Most of you probably already know - code written by someone that lives by the mantra "Let's make it work now, and worry about proper design later. Afterall, we can always come back and clean it up later". Code like this eventually becomes so mired in bad practice and execution that everyone's afraid to touch it, and most of it is scatter all to hell and back wth no hope of anything fixing the situation short of a complete freakin re-write. Of course, you're so low on the food/command chain that anything you say will be rebuffed as if you'd only been programming for a few freakin days. Everyone wants a working product, but nobody's concerned about the ramifications of maintainability by THE NEW PEOPLE THEY'RE GOING TO HIRE WHEN I QUIT!
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
-----
"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001 -
Most of you probably already know - code written by someone that lives by the mantra "Let's make it work now, and worry about proper design later. Afterall, we can always come back and clean it up later". Code like this eventually becomes so mired in bad practice and execution that everyone's afraid to touch it, and most of it is scatter all to hell and back wth no hope of anything fixing the situation short of a complete freakin re-write. Of course, you're so low on the food/command chain that anything you say will be rebuffed as if you'd only been programming for a few freakin days. Everyone wants a working product, but nobody's concerned about the ramifications of maintainability by THE NEW PEOPLE THEY'RE GOING TO HIRE WHEN I QUIT!
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001I think plenty of developers are directly guilty of what you describe, it's also very important to note that many others are simply responding to the demands of management. I remember getting on a project that was part of the purchase of another company. All but one of the original developers quit since they didn't want to relocate. The code varied from pretty good to simply dreadful and anyone looking at the code would shake their heads and ask "what were they thinking?" But then I found out the history and it became crystal clear: they were trying to keep their heads above water with extremely aggressive schedules from management. I started doing experiments. I'd write test code with a test app before rolling it into the real app (I almost always do this.) I discovered it took, on average, four times longer to work on the legacy code versus a new code base (in one case, the ratio was 60:1--no joke, I fully implemented the feature in the test app in 20 minutes, it took twenty hours to work that code into the app.) I wrote several emails to management explaining the situation and was totally ignored.
Anyone who thinks he has a better idea of what's good for people than people do is a swine. - P.J. O'Rourke
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It's amazing how many have no time to do it right, but have plenty of time to do it over.
"Approved Workmen Are Not Ashamed" - 2 Timothy 2:15
"Judge not by the eye but by the heart." - Native American Proverb
DavidCrow wrote:
It's amazing how many have no time to do it right, but have plenty of time to do it over.
... and plenty of time to debug it. Bug for bug. :suss: Because Debugging is soooo coool. You need to be a real guru to find all the nasty bugs that you have introduced before.
