Uncaching and Accountability
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For lack of a better subject name... I was just talking to one of the advisors at my son's school, about not just Internet security and moderating use, etc., but also the subject of how kids needs to be really careful about what they write in their blogs. And I'm not talking about plagiarism, but just plain, saying stupid things that can really affect their future regarding college acceptance and future employment. For example, I can search on my name and find things I posted on a list server more than 10 years ago! So, with Google et al caching every idiotic thing we say, how can someone who is now a bit more mature, get something they regret having written on a blog or a forum or whatever, and get out of these caches that companies like Google are maintaining? Is that possible? Is it desirable? Or do we have to become either anonymous in our posts and/or raise the awareness of accountability in our children (not to mention ourselves as adults) as they blog, chat, and forum (used as a verb) in what essentially results in a permanent record of their activities, which someone can and will use against them without regard to who they are years later? Marc
People are just notoriously impossible. --DavidCrow
There's NO excuse for not commenting your code. -- John Simmons / outlaw programmer
People who say that they will refactor their code later to make it "good" don't understand refactoring, nor the art and craft of programming. -- Josh Smith -
For lack of a better subject name... I was just talking to one of the advisors at my son's school, about not just Internet security and moderating use, etc., but also the subject of how kids needs to be really careful about what they write in their blogs. And I'm not talking about plagiarism, but just plain, saying stupid things that can really affect their future regarding college acceptance and future employment. For example, I can search on my name and find things I posted on a list server more than 10 years ago! So, with Google et al caching every idiotic thing we say, how can someone who is now a bit more mature, get something they regret having written on a blog or a forum or whatever, and get out of these caches that companies like Google are maintaining? Is that possible? Is it desirable? Or do we have to become either anonymous in our posts and/or raise the awareness of accountability in our children (not to mention ourselves as adults) as they blog, chat, and forum (used as a verb) in what essentially results in a permanent record of their activities, which someone can and will use against them without regard to who they are years later? Marc
People are just notoriously impossible. --DavidCrow
There's NO excuse for not commenting your code. -- John Simmons / outlaw programmer
People who say that they will refactor their code later to make it "good" don't understand refactoring, nor the art and craft of programming. -- Josh SmithUncaching - abuse would be woese than use. (And yes, there's silly stuff from me out there, too...)
We are a big screwed up dysfunctional psychotic happy family - some more screwed up, others more happy, but everybody's psychotic joint venture definition of CP
Linkify! || Fold With Us! || sighist -
For lack of a better subject name... I was just talking to one of the advisors at my son's school, about not just Internet security and moderating use, etc., but also the subject of how kids needs to be really careful about what they write in their blogs. And I'm not talking about plagiarism, but just plain, saying stupid things that can really affect their future regarding college acceptance and future employment. For example, I can search on my name and find things I posted on a list server more than 10 years ago! So, with Google et al caching every idiotic thing we say, how can someone who is now a bit more mature, get something they regret having written on a blog or a forum or whatever, and get out of these caches that companies like Google are maintaining? Is that possible? Is it desirable? Or do we have to become either anonymous in our posts and/or raise the awareness of accountability in our children (not to mention ourselves as adults) as they blog, chat, and forum (used as a verb) in what essentially results in a permanent record of their activities, which someone can and will use against them without regard to who they are years later? Marc
People are just notoriously impossible. --DavidCrow
There's NO excuse for not commenting your code. -- John Simmons / outlaw programmer
People who say that they will refactor their code later to make it "good" don't understand refactoring, nor the art and craft of programming. -- Josh SmithMarc Clifton wrote:
For example, I can search on my name and find things I posted on a list server more than 10 years ago!
yup. i'm usually afraid to try, i know i've said a lot of ridiculous things over the years that i wish would just disappear. but, nonetheless... i'm afraid there's just going to be a generation (or two) who are going to have to be examples, for future generations, of why you have to be very very careful about what you say when you post under your own name. i did a quick check, and was happy to discover that at least one thing about me hasn't changed in the last 15 years - i didn't use capital letters in my 'net communications back then, either.
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For lack of a better subject name... I was just talking to one of the advisors at my son's school, about not just Internet security and moderating use, etc., but also the subject of how kids needs to be really careful about what they write in their blogs. And I'm not talking about plagiarism, but just plain, saying stupid things that can really affect their future regarding college acceptance and future employment. For example, I can search on my name and find things I posted on a list server more than 10 years ago! So, with Google et al caching every idiotic thing we say, how can someone who is now a bit more mature, get something they regret having written on a blog or a forum or whatever, and get out of these caches that companies like Google are maintaining? Is that possible? Is it desirable? Or do we have to become either anonymous in our posts and/or raise the awareness of accountability in our children (not to mention ourselves as adults) as they blog, chat, and forum (used as a verb) in what essentially results in a permanent record of their activities, which someone can and will use against them without regard to who they are years later? Marc
People are just notoriously impossible. --DavidCrow
There's NO excuse for not commenting your code. -- John Simmons / outlaw programmer
People who say that they will refactor their code later to make it "good" don't understand refactoring, nor the art and craft of programming. -- Josh SmithI agree with you, especially for all those who are not really aware of what they are doing (kids). It happens to me now as a professional that some people talk me about posts I've made years ago when I used to play online games. I could loose all my credibility in less than one second, just have to search for the right post, and you lost it. This is a bit scary, because just as you said, it always can be used as a log of activities when someone is interested in you (like for a job for example). But I can't find a plausible solution to that problem, it is not directly connected to google caching pages, but to people writing things they shouldn't on the web. I should be the only responsible for giving personal information, and for kids, maybe parents should supervise what they are doing and not to expect google do something when they don’t. But I agree that people should be more carefull. Maybe the solution is how you said, start to post as an anonymate...
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For lack of a better subject name... I was just talking to one of the advisors at my son's school, about not just Internet security and moderating use, etc., but also the subject of how kids needs to be really careful about what they write in their blogs. And I'm not talking about plagiarism, but just plain, saying stupid things that can really affect their future regarding college acceptance and future employment. For example, I can search on my name and find things I posted on a list server more than 10 years ago! So, with Google et al caching every idiotic thing we say, how can someone who is now a bit more mature, get something they regret having written on a blog or a forum or whatever, and get out of these caches that companies like Google are maintaining? Is that possible? Is it desirable? Or do we have to become either anonymous in our posts and/or raise the awareness of accountability in our children (not to mention ourselves as adults) as they blog, chat, and forum (used as a verb) in what essentially results in a permanent record of their activities, which someone can and will use against them without regard to who they are years later? Marc
People are just notoriously impossible. --DavidCrow
There's NO excuse for not commenting your code. -- John Simmons / outlaw programmer
People who say that they will refactor their code later to make it "good" don't understand refactoring, nor the art and craft of programming. -- Josh SmithIt's an interesting point - and raises issues over free speech. You live in a democracy now but suppose, at some future point in time, that it turns into a dictatorship, then every thought you have ever put down can be analysed for "evidence" of subversive thinking. Suppose though, that somebody posts something deflamatory about you, then this too will be preserved. Is this a good thing? From your point of view? From theirs? Anyway - no answers here, only thoughts and other questions.
Arthur Dent - "That would explain it. All my life I've had this strange feeling that there's something big and sinister going on in the world." Slartibartfast - "No. That's perfectly normal paranoia. Everybody in the universe gets that." Deja View - the feeling that you've seen this post before.
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For lack of a better subject name... I was just talking to one of the advisors at my son's school, about not just Internet security and moderating use, etc., but also the subject of how kids needs to be really careful about what they write in their blogs. And I'm not talking about plagiarism, but just plain, saying stupid things that can really affect their future regarding college acceptance and future employment. For example, I can search on my name and find things I posted on a list server more than 10 years ago! So, with Google et al caching every idiotic thing we say, how can someone who is now a bit more mature, get something they regret having written on a blog or a forum or whatever, and get out of these caches that companies like Google are maintaining? Is that possible? Is it desirable? Or do we have to become either anonymous in our posts and/or raise the awareness of accountability in our children (not to mention ourselves as adults) as they blog, chat, and forum (used as a verb) in what essentially results in a permanent record of their activities, which someone can and will use against them without regard to who they are years later? Marc
People are just notoriously impossible. --DavidCrow
There's NO excuse for not commenting your code. -- John Simmons / outlaw programmer
People who say that they will refactor their code later to make it "good" don't understand refactoring, nor the art and craft of programming. -- Josh SmithMarc Clifton wrote:
Is that possible?
Probably, to a limited extent. There's the easy way, which is to post on your own site and simply request that Google, Archive.org, etc. do not cache it. And then there's the American way, which is to wait until you've been blacklisted due to all those old nazi love poems and threats against the President that you'd posted as a kid, and then sue everyone.
Marc Clifton wrote:
Is it desirable?
No. Even if you think no-one reads the Opinion page of your local paper, you'd still think twice about sending in a letter to the editor detailing the disgusting and illegal deeds you were involved in down at the city park with all those cats. Well, the Internet's like that, except with no editor and a lot more readers - the sooner kids realize that, the better off we'll all be. In this case, trying to protect them is just handing them more rope with which to hang their future selves...
every night, i kneel at the foot of my bed and thank the Great Overseeing Politicians for protecting my freedoms by reducing their number, as if they were deer in a state park. -- Chris Losinger, Online Poker Players?
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For lack of a better subject name... I was just talking to one of the advisors at my son's school, about not just Internet security and moderating use, etc., but also the subject of how kids needs to be really careful about what they write in their blogs. And I'm not talking about plagiarism, but just plain, saying stupid things that can really affect their future regarding college acceptance and future employment. For example, I can search on my name and find things I posted on a list server more than 10 years ago! So, with Google et al caching every idiotic thing we say, how can someone who is now a bit more mature, get something they regret having written on a blog or a forum or whatever, and get out of these caches that companies like Google are maintaining? Is that possible? Is it desirable? Or do we have to become either anonymous in our posts and/or raise the awareness of accountability in our children (not to mention ourselves as adults) as they blog, chat, and forum (used as a verb) in what essentially results in a permanent record of their activities, which someone can and will use against them without regard to who they are years later? Marc
People are just notoriously impossible. --DavidCrow
There's NO excuse for not commenting your code. -- John Simmons / outlaw programmer
People who say that they will refactor their code later to make it "good" don't understand refactoring, nor the art and craft of programming. -- Josh SmithGoogle obeys nofollow and x-no-archive for usenet posts. Those are not standards though, or retrospective.
Marc Clifton wrote:
which someone can and will use against them without regard to who they are years later
There's always the doctrine of mutually assured destruction. I hope that in 20 years people will have become more accustomed to the concept that the young (and old :) ) say stupid things. We cannot all live our lives like politicians, a certain level of hypocrisy is required to function as a human being. Being able to dig up the chatroom logs of some future prime minister when s/he was 16 would probably be pretty amusing though.
Ryan
"Michael Moore and Mel Gibson are the same person, except for a few sit-ups. Moore thought his cheesy political blooper reel was going to tell people how to vote. Mel thought that his little gay SM movie about his imaginary friend was going to help him get to heaven." - Penn Jillette
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Marc Clifton wrote:
For example, I can search on my name and find things I posted on a list server more than 10 years ago!
yup. i'm usually afraid to try, i know i've said a lot of ridiculous things over the years that i wish would just disappear. but, nonetheless... i'm afraid there's just going to be a generation (or two) who are going to have to be examples, for future generations, of why you have to be very very careful about what you say when you post under your own name. i did a quick check, and was happy to discover that at least one thing about me hasn't changed in the last 15 years - i didn't use capital letters in my 'net communications back then, either.
You've got that e. e. cummings thing goin' on. :)
Software Zen:
delete this; -
For lack of a better subject name... I was just talking to one of the advisors at my son's school, about not just Internet security and moderating use, etc., but also the subject of how kids needs to be really careful about what they write in their blogs. And I'm not talking about plagiarism, but just plain, saying stupid things that can really affect their future regarding college acceptance and future employment. For example, I can search on my name and find things I posted on a list server more than 10 years ago! So, with Google et al caching every idiotic thing we say, how can someone who is now a bit more mature, get something they regret having written on a blog or a forum or whatever, and get out of these caches that companies like Google are maintaining? Is that possible? Is it desirable? Or do we have to become either anonymous in our posts and/or raise the awareness of accountability in our children (not to mention ourselves as adults) as they blog, chat, and forum (used as a verb) in what essentially results in a permanent record of their activities, which someone can and will use against them without regard to who they are years later? Marc
People are just notoriously impossible. --DavidCrow
There's NO excuse for not commenting your code. -- John Simmons / outlaw programmer
People who say that they will refactor their code later to make it "good" don't understand refactoring, nor the art and craft of programming. -- Josh SmithIn an "ideal" world everyone would always think before they speak, aim to be kind and respectful to everyone around them, so this would never be an issue :cool: I think we can safely dismiss this posibility, at least for a few years :) My personal answer would be, short of digging up a post where you admitted to some serious illegal act, or you are looking at someone's technical experience in an area, it says more about the person doing the search than it does about you. "Oh look, 15 years ago you said a rude word when you were in an argument" really seems to mean that the searcher is searching for an excuse, or has some other "hidden" motivation. Are they looking to hire a robot or a person who can think for themselves?
zen is the art of being at one with the two'ness
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You've got that e. e. cummings thing goin' on. :)
Software Zen:
delete this;frankly, that probably had a lot to do with it. my first ventures into usenet were in the poetry groups. and e.e. is one of my fav's. that, and i just like the way lowercase letters look.
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frankly, that probably had a lot to do with it. my first ventures into usenet were in the poetry groups. and e.e. is one of my fav's. that, and i just like the way lowercase letters look.
My liking for lower case arose from a lot more prosaic cause. I started using lower case on the command line back in my VAX/VMS days. Lower case improved readability on the old DEC VT100 terminals, whose upper case font just seemed to wash out for me. My fellow system managers called me a heretic.
Software Zen:
delete this; -
In an "ideal" world everyone would always think before they speak, aim to be kind and respectful to everyone around them, so this would never be an issue :cool: I think we can safely dismiss this posibility, at least for a few years :) My personal answer would be, short of digging up a post where you admitted to some serious illegal act, or you are looking at someone's technical experience in an area, it says more about the person doing the search than it does about you. "Oh look, 15 years ago you said a rude word when you were in an argument" really seems to mean that the searcher is searching for an excuse, or has some other "hidden" motivation. Are they looking to hire a robot or a person who can think for themselves?
zen is the art of being at one with the two'ness
feline_dracoform wrote:
really seems to mean that the searcher is searching for an excuse, or has some other "hidden" motivation.
That's a good point. But take the following scenario--some highschool student writes something racist or, say, anti-Muslim. Maybe he/she is just spouting off some anger, but then the admissions office at Harvard finds it. Or, after being accepted, someone else finds it and makes a mountain out of a mole hill, that Harvard is accepting students with racist attitudes. And then the press gets involved, etc.
feline_dracoform wrote:
Are they looking to hire a robot or a person who can think for themselves?
Sadly, yes, a robot. Or more precisely, looking for a plain vanilla, nothing controversial, student or employee. It's part of the "cover my arse" attitude that is prevalent in today's society, it seems. The problem is, what do you actually do with this information? Do you confront the person and tell them that their past attitude is not compatible with the "image" of organization? Do you ask them if they've changed their views and possibly to retract their statement? And the motivation for erasing one's previous statements is questionable too--is it simply to look good, to present the right image to the organization? It seems we have to have a lot of different faces nowadays depending on where we're trying to go. Marc
People are just notoriously impossible. --DavidCrow
There's NO excuse for not commenting your code. -- John Simmons / outlaw programmer
People who say that they will refactor their code later to make it "good" don't understand refactoring, nor the art and craft of programming. -- Josh Smith -
I agree with you, especially for all those who are not really aware of what they are doing (kids). It happens to me now as a professional that some people talk me about posts I've made years ago when I used to play online games. I could loose all my credibility in less than one second, just have to search for the right post, and you lost it. This is a bit scary, because just as you said, it always can be used as a log of activities when someone is interested in you (like for a job for example). But I can't find a plausible solution to that problem, it is not directly connected to google caching pages, but to people writing things they shouldn't on the web. I should be the only responsible for giving personal information, and for kids, maybe parents should supervise what they are doing and not to expect google do something when they don’t. But I agree that people should be more carefull. Maybe the solution is how you said, start to post as an anonymate...
siskhoalanka wrote:
But I can't find a plausible solution to that problem
Switch to nicknames! :cool:
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My liking for lower case arose from a lot more prosaic cause. I started using lower case on the command line back in my VAX/VMS days. Lower case improved readability on the old DEC VT100 terminals, whose upper case font just seemed to wash out for me. My fellow system managers called me a heretic.
Software Zen:
delete this;ah yeah. now that you mention it, i'm sure the fact that i was primarily using Unix/VMS command lines back then had something to do with it, too. i was more of a VT220 guy, m'self.
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ah yeah. now that you mention it, i'm sure the fact that i was primarily using Unix/VMS command lines back then had something to do with it, too. i was more of a VT220 guy, m'self.
Chris Losinger wrote:
VT220
Oooh. Fancy. :-D
Software Zen:
delete this; -
For lack of a better subject name... I was just talking to one of the advisors at my son's school, about not just Internet security and moderating use, etc., but also the subject of how kids needs to be really careful about what they write in their blogs. And I'm not talking about plagiarism, but just plain, saying stupid things that can really affect their future regarding college acceptance and future employment. For example, I can search on my name and find things I posted on a list server more than 10 years ago! So, with Google et al caching every idiotic thing we say, how can someone who is now a bit more mature, get something they regret having written on a blog or a forum or whatever, and get out of these caches that companies like Google are maintaining? Is that possible? Is it desirable? Or do we have to become either anonymous in our posts and/or raise the awareness of accountability in our children (not to mention ourselves as adults) as they blog, chat, and forum (used as a verb) in what essentially results in a permanent record of their activities, which someone can and will use against them without regard to who they are years later? Marc
People are just notoriously impossible. --DavidCrow
There's NO excuse for not commenting your code. -- John Simmons / outlaw programmer
People who say that they will refactor their code later to make it "good" don't understand refactoring, nor the art and craft of programming. -- Josh SmithYou think blogs are bad - what about pictures posted on the net...there are a good number of appalling photos of me about that are many many years old (and no, I'm not going to supply links ;-) )
'--8<------------------------ Ex Datis: Duncan Jones Merrion Computing Ltd
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For lack of a better subject name... I was just talking to one of the advisors at my son's school, about not just Internet security and moderating use, etc., but also the subject of how kids needs to be really careful about what they write in their blogs. And I'm not talking about plagiarism, but just plain, saying stupid things that can really affect their future regarding college acceptance and future employment. For example, I can search on my name and find things I posted on a list server more than 10 years ago! So, with Google et al caching every idiotic thing we say, how can someone who is now a bit more mature, get something they regret having written on a blog or a forum or whatever, and get out of these caches that companies like Google are maintaining? Is that possible? Is it desirable? Or do we have to become either anonymous in our posts and/or raise the awareness of accountability in our children (not to mention ourselves as adults) as they blog, chat, and forum (used as a verb) in what essentially results in a permanent record of their activities, which someone can and will use against them without regard to who they are years later? Marc
People are just notoriously impossible. --DavidCrow
There's NO excuse for not commenting your code. -- John Simmons / outlaw programmer
People who say that they will refactor their code later to make it "good" don't understand refactoring, nor the art and craft of programming. -- Josh SmithIt is simple, people have to be who they are and not someone they would like to be or portray to others. We need to face the fact that if you embrace a public open forum such as the Internet, we will have to live with our past as well as the present. To this end though, so will others have to realize people change and accept past mistakes. This goes for more than just personal matters, businesses live with this every day. All it takes is a few people point fingers at your business (even if not factual) and those comments will be there for years. We are in a new world and our actions and thoughts are being archived more and more every day. I do not see any change coming in the future. The only options are to be isolated from the social aspects of the Internet or accept the results. I think with everyone being such morons at times, it will all balance out ;)
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