Why Vista?
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I know that a certain amount of you will want anything new just because it's the latest & greatest toy to play with. So, we'll scratch that reason up front as I'm talking about tangible benefits. Vista will also sport a new Neat & Groovy set of eye candy. Again, sexy for geeks, but no real tangible benefit. Having arbitrarily eliminated those two reasons, what are the functional benefits of upgrading to Vista? In other words, besides having a ton of new security / permissions hassles to deal with (not to mention compatibility problems that seem to dwarf all predecessors), what will I actually be able to do with Vista that I can't already do with XP?
Author of The Career Programmer and Unite the Tribes www.PracticalStrategyConsulting.com
I've posted on this at least twice before in the lounge. Unfortunately the search isn't digging it up. Here are some reason I'm planning on moving to Vista: Security: users run as non-admin by default, which is difficult to do in XP (something I've been doing for over 2 years, and it is a major pain) An improved shell: check out the breadcrumb bars, the save file dialogs -- things have really simplified, and simple is better. Search: search actually works and it's fast (and hey, there's no little doggy :)). And with Search folders, you can basically have dynamic folders that update themselves automatically. For instance, you could have a search folder that contains all image files containing the word family. The folder automatically updates as you save new family photos to your computer. Parental controls: see what games your child has been playing, and for how long. Set time limits on games, rating limits, and at what times they can be played. Haven't looked at internet parental control yet. Start menu that makes sense: every machine I go to, you click the Start->Programs and *booom!* the whole screen fills with program entries. Vista's new Start Menu solves this problem by making the menu a limited size with scrolling. That itself isn't great, but you can type in a search box embedded right in the start menu to find any program. In practice, this if far faster than visually finding some program group floating among a hundred others. DirectX 10: Vista only! If you're a gamer (my wife and I both are) then Vista is a must for this reason alone. Better UI: sure, the eye candy, visuals, and animations makes XP look like Win 3.1, but they've actually improved on UI design. Have a look at this blog post[^] for a quick skim of some changes in Vista's UI design. Those are just some off the top of my head. I suspect Vista will easily supplant XP as the dominant OS in the coming years. *edit* oooh, almost forgot. A new network stack built from the ground up with IPv6 support. In addition to security and performance improvements, it lets you do cool things like Windows Internet Computer Name[^], no Dynamic DNS required. :cool:
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I know that a certain amount of you will want anything new just because it's the latest & greatest toy to play with. So, we'll scratch that reason up front as I'm talking about tangible benefits. Vista will also sport a new Neat & Groovy set of eye candy. Again, sexy for geeks, but no real tangible benefit. Having arbitrarily eliminated those two reasons, what are the functional benefits of upgrading to Vista? In other words, besides having a ton of new security / permissions hassles to deal with (not to mention compatibility problems that seem to dwarf all predecessors), what will I actually be able to do with Vista that I can't already do with XP?
Author of The Career Programmer and Unite the Tribes www.PracticalStrategyConsulting.com
Christopher Duncan wrote:
a certain amount of you will want anything new just because it's the latest & greatest toy to play with.
I was going to start a thread on this to prepare for the question, but you beat me to it. So I will answer you now. First off, starting off with new technology doesn't just mean eye-candy or drool-factor, bragging rights etc. When dual core came out, I got dual core, people made fun and I rolled my eyes. If I don't get the latest technology as a developer, who else is going to write something that is compatible with the newest technology? It doesn't magically appear, or at least it hasn't yet. If someone has a spell to write software for them, hey I am game. Technology comes at a price, eventually I will have to go Vista at work. Now I can sit around and wait for someone else to test it, make it secure, find the bugs, find the features, test compatibility of my software.... Or I can do it myself. Now if I take the idea that someone else will test these things, who's to say that the result will be compatible with my software? If I have to adapt when I finally leap, then I will be playing "catch-up". So as a developer, I have multiple machines at work, one is expected to be latest hardware, multiple hard-drives, possibly multiple boot. When XP came out, the site was Windows 2000. The same was said. I had dual boot, XP and 2000 and my software was adapted to work in either environment. Although in that example the adaptions were fewer. Still, I "could" wait, fall behind, let everyone else play with the toys, and in the process of "playing" somehow stumble on the "all" of the problems that will be my headache of tomorrow.... or... I buckle-down, keep one system as a prototype, next-generation "hopeful" and find the problems myself... and save myself from the later headaches. I don't play with the new OSes, but I do get them. I am serious about it, but not dependant on it until I know it is stable. That is just how my business-model/development-cycle works.
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
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Christopher Duncan wrote:
what will I actually be able to do with Vista that I can't already do with XP?
Boot slower, not change startup sound, oh wait... wrong sales pitch. :-D Um... you'll not be able to use VS2K3... oops did it again. Let's see... how about you can have bigger icons now on the desktop? There ya go, that's a winner.
Jeremy Falcon A multithreaded, OpenGL-enabled application.[^]
Jeremy Falcon wrote:
Um... you'll not be able to use VS2K3... oops did it again.
What!? Wasn't it VC6?
-- For proper viewing, take red pill now
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I've posted on this at least twice before in the lounge. Unfortunately the search isn't digging it up. Here are some reason I'm planning on moving to Vista: Security: users run as non-admin by default, which is difficult to do in XP (something I've been doing for over 2 years, and it is a major pain) An improved shell: check out the breadcrumb bars, the save file dialogs -- things have really simplified, and simple is better. Search: search actually works and it's fast (and hey, there's no little doggy :)). And with Search folders, you can basically have dynamic folders that update themselves automatically. For instance, you could have a search folder that contains all image files containing the word family. The folder automatically updates as you save new family photos to your computer. Parental controls: see what games your child has been playing, and for how long. Set time limits on games, rating limits, and at what times they can be played. Haven't looked at internet parental control yet. Start menu that makes sense: every machine I go to, you click the Start->Programs and *booom!* the whole screen fills with program entries. Vista's new Start Menu solves this problem by making the menu a limited size with scrolling. That itself isn't great, but you can type in a search box embedded right in the start menu to find any program. In practice, this if far faster than visually finding some program group floating among a hundred others. DirectX 10: Vista only! If you're a gamer (my wife and I both are) then Vista is a must for this reason alone. Better UI: sure, the eye candy, visuals, and animations makes XP look like Win 3.1, but they've actually improved on UI design. Have a look at this blog post[^] for a quick skim of some changes in Vista's UI design. Those are just some off the top of my head. I suspect Vista will easily supplant XP as the dominant OS in the coming years. *edit* oooh, almost forgot. A new network stack built from the ground up with IPv6 support. In addition to security and performance improvements, it lets you do cool things like Windows Internet Computer Name[^], no Dynamic DNS required. :cool:
I really don't understand why you have been voted down. :| 5'ed to balance. :)
________________________________________________ Personal Blog [ITA] - Tech Blog [ENG] Developing ScrewTurn Wiki 2.0 (1.0.8 is out)
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I've posted on this at least twice before in the lounge. Unfortunately the search isn't digging it up. Here are some reason I'm planning on moving to Vista: Security: users run as non-admin by default, which is difficult to do in XP (something I've been doing for over 2 years, and it is a major pain) An improved shell: check out the breadcrumb bars, the save file dialogs -- things have really simplified, and simple is better. Search: search actually works and it's fast (and hey, there's no little doggy :)). And with Search folders, you can basically have dynamic folders that update themselves automatically. For instance, you could have a search folder that contains all image files containing the word family. The folder automatically updates as you save new family photos to your computer. Parental controls: see what games your child has been playing, and for how long. Set time limits on games, rating limits, and at what times they can be played. Haven't looked at internet parental control yet. Start menu that makes sense: every machine I go to, you click the Start->Programs and *booom!* the whole screen fills with program entries. Vista's new Start Menu solves this problem by making the menu a limited size with scrolling. That itself isn't great, but you can type in a search box embedded right in the start menu to find any program. In practice, this if far faster than visually finding some program group floating among a hundred others. DirectX 10: Vista only! If you're a gamer (my wife and I both are) then Vista is a must for this reason alone. Better UI: sure, the eye candy, visuals, and animations makes XP look like Win 3.1, but they've actually improved on UI design. Have a look at this blog post[^] for a quick skim of some changes in Vista's UI design. Those are just some off the top of my head. I suspect Vista will easily supplant XP as the dominant OS in the coming years. *edit* oooh, almost forgot. A new network stack built from the ground up with IPv6 support. In addition to security and performance improvements, it lets you do cool things like Windows Internet Computer Name[^], no Dynamic DNS required. :cool:
ditto... on both. :)
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
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I know that a certain amount of you will want anything new just because it's the latest & greatest toy to play with. So, we'll scratch that reason up front as I'm talking about tangible benefits. Vista will also sport a new Neat & Groovy set of eye candy. Again, sexy for geeks, but no real tangible benefit. Having arbitrarily eliminated those two reasons, what are the functional benefits of upgrading to Vista? In other words, besides having a ton of new security / permissions hassles to deal with (not to mention compatibility problems that seem to dwarf all predecessors), what will I actually be able to do with Vista that I can't already do with XP?
Author of The Career Programmer and Unite the Tribes www.PracticalStrategyConsulting.com
Christopher Duncan wrote:
what will I actually be able to do with Vista that I can't already do with XP?
Bah, its obvious dude...you wont have to change settings to have a red BSOD together with a blue one.
:badger:
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I know that a certain amount of you will want anything new just because it's the latest & greatest toy to play with. So, we'll scratch that reason up front as I'm talking about tangible benefits. Vista will also sport a new Neat & Groovy set of eye candy. Again, sexy for geeks, but no real tangible benefit. Having arbitrarily eliminated those two reasons, what are the functional benefits of upgrading to Vista? In other words, besides having a ton of new security / permissions hassles to deal with (not to mention compatibility problems that seem to dwarf all predecessors), what will I actually be able to do with Vista that I can't already do with XP?
Author of The Career Programmer and Unite the Tribes www.PracticalStrategyConsulting.com
Christopher Duncan wrote:
Neat & Groovy set of eye candy. Again, sexy for geeks, but no real tangible benefit.
I'm a nerd rather than a geek, and I don't like eye candy in my OS. Such things are not for nerds (and I doubt geeks want them either), they are for everyday users who don't know any better -- i.e. most of Microsoft's market share. I like icons and toolbars that are small, non-distracting, and customizable. I'm now running IE7 which I hear is a precursor to Vista, but I hate hate hate the oversized buttons and crap, I want a "classic" mode. I probably won't go to Vista. I did install the Beta 1 on a system which is now collecting dust in a closet. I hope Vista goes the way of ME, I'll wait for the next one.
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I've posted on this at least twice before in the lounge. Unfortunately the search isn't digging it up. Here are some reason I'm planning on moving to Vista: Security: users run as non-admin by default, which is difficult to do in XP (something I've been doing for over 2 years, and it is a major pain) An improved shell: check out the breadcrumb bars, the save file dialogs -- things have really simplified, and simple is better. Search: search actually works and it's fast (and hey, there's no little doggy :)). And with Search folders, you can basically have dynamic folders that update themselves automatically. For instance, you could have a search folder that contains all image files containing the word family. The folder automatically updates as you save new family photos to your computer. Parental controls: see what games your child has been playing, and for how long. Set time limits on games, rating limits, and at what times they can be played. Haven't looked at internet parental control yet. Start menu that makes sense: every machine I go to, you click the Start->Programs and *booom!* the whole screen fills with program entries. Vista's new Start Menu solves this problem by making the menu a limited size with scrolling. That itself isn't great, but you can type in a search box embedded right in the start menu to find any program. In practice, this if far faster than visually finding some program group floating among a hundred others. DirectX 10: Vista only! If you're a gamer (my wife and I both are) then Vista is a must for this reason alone. Better UI: sure, the eye candy, visuals, and animations makes XP look like Win 3.1, but they've actually improved on UI design. Have a look at this blog post[^] for a quick skim of some changes in Vista's UI design. Those are just some off the top of my head. I suspect Vista will easily supplant XP as the dominant OS in the coming years. *edit* oooh, almost forgot. A new network stack built from the ground up with IPv6 support. In addition to security and performance improvements, it lets you do cool things like Windows Internet Computer Name[^], no Dynamic DNS required. :cool:
Parental control is a feature, and IPv6 also provides new functionality. Beyond that, it's largely UI related and doesn't sound like it provides much of anything I can't already do, which was essentially the question. This is not to say that the things you value are unimportant. I'm looking for tangible new bits of functionality that would make the upgrade worthwhile. :) [edit] And I also just voted you a 5 - I disagree with your reasoning, but I thought it was presented well. Don't understand why someone would devalue your post... [/edit]
Author of The Career Programmer and Unite the Tribes www.PracticalStrategyConsulting.com
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I really don't understand why you have been voted down. :| 5'ed to balance. :)
________________________________________________ Personal Blog [ITA] - Tech Blog [ENG] Developing ScrewTurn Wiki 2.0 (1.0.8 is out)
Dario Solera wrote:
I really don't understand why you have been voted down.
A few luddites and anti-Microsoft, high-horse techno zealots, I suspect. :)
Tech, life, family, faith: Give me a visit. I'm currently blogging about: God-as-Judge, God-as-Forgiver The apostle Paul, modernly speaking: Epistles of Paul Judah Himango
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I know that a certain amount of you will want anything new just because it's the latest & greatest toy to play with. So, we'll scratch that reason up front as I'm talking about tangible benefits. Vista will also sport a new Neat & Groovy set of eye candy. Again, sexy for geeks, but no real tangible benefit. Having arbitrarily eliminated those two reasons, what are the functional benefits of upgrading to Vista? In other words, besides having a ton of new security / permissions hassles to deal with (not to mention compatibility problems that seem to dwarf all predecessors), what will I actually be able to do with Vista that I can't already do with XP?
Author of The Career Programmer and Unite the Tribes www.PracticalStrategyConsulting.com
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I know this is a repost because I stole the link from here, but it is a worthy repost. The new Windows Vista Sounds[^]
Ðavid Wulff What kind of music to programmers listen to?
Join the Code Project Last.fm group | dwulff
I, for one, welcome our new shrew-sized overlords.David Wulff wrote:
but it is a worthy repost.
Dolphin to that!
We are a big screwed up dysfunctional psychotic happy family - some more screwed up, others more happy, but everybody's psychotic joint venture definition of CP
Linkify! || Fold With Us! || sighist -
Christopher Duncan wrote:
a certain amount of you will want anything new just because it's the latest & greatest toy to play with.
I was going to start a thread on this to prepare for the question, but you beat me to it. So I will answer you now. First off, starting off with new technology doesn't just mean eye-candy or drool-factor, bragging rights etc. When dual core came out, I got dual core, people made fun and I rolled my eyes. If I don't get the latest technology as a developer, who else is going to write something that is compatible with the newest technology? It doesn't magically appear, or at least it hasn't yet. If someone has a spell to write software for them, hey I am game. Technology comes at a price, eventually I will have to go Vista at work. Now I can sit around and wait for someone else to test it, make it secure, find the bugs, find the features, test compatibility of my software.... Or I can do it myself. Now if I take the idea that someone else will test these things, who's to say that the result will be compatible with my software? If I have to adapt when I finally leap, then I will be playing "catch-up". So as a developer, I have multiple machines at work, one is expected to be latest hardware, multiple hard-drives, possibly multiple boot. When XP came out, the site was Windows 2000. The same was said. I had dual boot, XP and 2000 and my software was adapted to work in either environment. Although in that example the adaptions were fewer. Still, I "could" wait, fall behind, let everyone else play with the toys, and in the process of "playing" somehow stumble on the "all" of the problems that will be my headache of tomorrow.... or... I buckle-down, keep one system as a prototype, next-generation "hopeful" and find the problems myself... and save myself from the later headaches. I don't play with the new OSes, but I do get them. I am serious about it, but not dependant on it until I know it is stable. That is just how my business-model/development-cycle works.
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
Jeffry J. Brickley wrote:
I was going to start a thread on this to prepare for the question, but you beat me to it. So I will answer you now.
Well said. Shoulda discounted this reason as well. :) We're all eventually going to have to go to Vista, because we're professional techies and we need to stay abreast of the most recent technologies. My query was more along the lines of, "Yeah, sooner or later I'll have to upgrade at gunpoint, but is there actually anything in it for me to do so now?"
Author of The Career Programmer and Unite the Tribes www.PracticalStrategyConsulting.com
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Jeremy Falcon wrote:
Um... you'll not be able to use VS2K3... oops did it again.
What!? Wasn't it VC6?
-- For proper viewing, take red pill now
Nope. VS2K3 as well. And from what I've heard, though it'll be supported, they don't really have the issues worked out with VS2K5 yet.
Author of The Career Programmer and Unite the Tribes www.PracticalStrategyConsulting.com
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I know that a certain amount of you will want anything new just because it's the latest & greatest toy to play with. So, we'll scratch that reason up front as I'm talking about tangible benefits. Vista will also sport a new Neat & Groovy set of eye candy. Again, sexy for geeks, but no real tangible benefit. Having arbitrarily eliminated those two reasons, what are the functional benefits of upgrading to Vista? In other words, besides having a ton of new security / permissions hassles to deal with (not to mention compatibility problems that seem to dwarf all predecessors), what will I actually be able to do with Vista that I can't already do with XP?
Author of The Career Programmer and Unite the Tribes www.PracticalStrategyConsulting.com
Christopher Duncan wrote:
what will I actually be able to do with Vista that I can't already do with XP?
Set volume for each program separately (something i wanted for the past 5 years) :cool:
"..Commit yourself to quality from day one..it's better to do nothing at all than to do something badly.." -- Mark McCormick
|| Fold With Us! || Pensieve || VG.Net ||
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Christopher Duncan wrote:
what will I actually be able to do with Vista that I can't already do with XP?
Set volume for each program separately (something i wanted for the past 5 years) :cool:
"..Commit yourself to quality from day one..it's better to do nothing at all than to do something badly.." -- Mark McCormick
|| Fold With Us! || Pensieve || VG.Net ||
Cool indeed, but doesn't really make me want to reach for my wallet. :)
Author of The Career Programmer and Unite the Tribes www.PracticalStrategyConsulting.com
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"Further into the future" perhaps, but hopefully not longer.
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Parental control is a feature, and IPv6 also provides new functionality. Beyond that, it's largely UI related and doesn't sound like it provides much of anything I can't already do, which was essentially the question. This is not to say that the things you value are unimportant. I'm looking for tangible new bits of functionality that would make the upgrade worthwhile. :) [edit] And I also just voted you a 5 - I disagree with your reasoning, but I thought it was presented well. Don't understand why someone would devalue your post... [/edit]
Author of The Career Programmer and Unite the Tribes www.PracticalStrategyConsulting.com
Christopher Duncan wrote:
I'm looking for tangible new bits of functionality that would make the upgrade worthwhile.
well, I guess the primary core changes are 64bit on a 64bit machine and hardware accelerated windowing. The later looks like eye-candy, because they market as eye-candy, but to the developer it is a shift in compatibility that could wreck havok on either performance or just pure runtime compatibiltiy. This could be good, or bad depending on how it was done, so yup I will get it and make my opinion known if necessary to get things "fixed" or "changed".
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
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Absolutely nothing. OK, personal opinion outside of the way. I think the only reason to upgrade to Vista will come in about 6-15 months when Microsoft announces the death of XP SP5, and the only future way to get security fixes will be for those using Vista.
-------------- TTFN - Kent
Kent Sharkey wrote:
6-15 months [...] XP SP5
Three more service packs in 15 month? For a "legacy" operation system? From Microsoft? Nah, I don't think so. ;-) Cheers Martin
"When your own heart asks - how will you respond?" Gosen waka shū "Situation normal - all fu***d up" Illuminatus! My photos on flickr
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I've posted on this at least twice before in the lounge. Unfortunately the search isn't digging it up. Here are some reason I'm planning on moving to Vista: Security: users run as non-admin by default, which is difficult to do in XP (something I've been doing for over 2 years, and it is a major pain) An improved shell: check out the breadcrumb bars, the save file dialogs -- things have really simplified, and simple is better. Search: search actually works and it's fast (and hey, there's no little doggy :)). And with Search folders, you can basically have dynamic folders that update themselves automatically. For instance, you could have a search folder that contains all image files containing the word family. The folder automatically updates as you save new family photos to your computer. Parental controls: see what games your child has been playing, and for how long. Set time limits on games, rating limits, and at what times they can be played. Haven't looked at internet parental control yet. Start menu that makes sense: every machine I go to, you click the Start->Programs and *booom!* the whole screen fills with program entries. Vista's new Start Menu solves this problem by making the menu a limited size with scrolling. That itself isn't great, but you can type in a search box embedded right in the start menu to find any program. In practice, this if far faster than visually finding some program group floating among a hundred others. DirectX 10: Vista only! If you're a gamer (my wife and I both are) then Vista is a must for this reason alone. Better UI: sure, the eye candy, visuals, and animations makes XP look like Win 3.1, but they've actually improved on UI design. Have a look at this blog post[^] for a quick skim of some changes in Vista's UI design. Those are just some off the top of my head. I suspect Vista will easily supplant XP as the dominant OS in the coming years. *edit* oooh, almost forgot. A new network stack built from the ground up with IPv6 support. In addition to security and performance improvements, it lets you do cool things like Windows Internet Computer Name[^], no Dynamic DNS required. :cool:
1. It's my PC, noone else to worry about. 2. U set the desktop to Win2k style, less bloated. 3. Games? Not me. In my case I'll stick to XP as long as possible. Maybe Vista's successor will be better. Elaine :rose:
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Nope. VS2K3 as well. And from what I've heard, though it'll be supported, they don't really have the issues worked out with VS2K5 yet.
Author of The Career Programmer and Unite the Tribes www.PracticalStrategyConsulting.com
Why the hell not!? Are they mad!? VS2k3 is the last usable IDE in the Visual Studio series.
-- From the Makers of Futurama