How much time should be spent on the little things
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Joe Q wrote:
Yes, we have bigger problems but this one (software style) is one the boss can actually address and control.
It should be prioritised along with all the other development tasks in the project. You then work by priority during work hours. I'd tell him that there are higher priority items to do first and that non-work hours are filled with raising your family. If he doesn't understand that then I'm afraid you don't have a reasonable boss and none of us can help much with advice.
regards, Paul Watson Ireland & South Africa
Shog9 wrote:
I don't see it happening, at least not until it becomes pointless.
Paul Watson wrote:
I'd tell him that there are higher priority items to do first and that non-work hours are filled with raising your family. If he doesn't understand that then I'm afraid you don't have a reasonable boss and none of us can help much with advice.
In many cases he is not a reasonable boss. He used to be an Engineer but when he became a boss, he seemed to forget what it was like to actually have to do the work. I think I'm going to put this on my 2010 todo list. (That's what I tell people when I don't plan on doing something)
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I put out a programming style guide and the boss overruled a few things. For example I had call to a function as function_name( param1, param2 ); and my boss changed it to function_name (param1, param2); Honestly, to me it doesn't matter which way or even if both ways are used as long as an individual is consistent. However, I've written 8K SLOC in my style (before the guide came out) and now my boss wants me to "take however long it has to" to meet his style. BTW, no actual schedule relief is allowed and I'm supposed to be done this Monday. I can get the code working by COB Monday without his style guide changes to it. I may be another week of mind numbing work to change the spacing. So how much time should be spent doing the little things such as changing style? (just to let you know, the boss was going to put out the style guide until it was 4 months late then gave me the task) Thanks Joe Q
This is the real WTFOTD: Your boss wants to risk the introduction of bugs for the zero benefit of a few brackets being rearranged because he couldn't be bothered to write the style guide before you started coding. Tell him it's too late. Tell him it'll take 3 months to restyle it. Tell him his style isn't supported by Microsoft. Tell him anything to avoid having to do this astonishingly stupid requirement. Anyway, it's the comments that are important, not the spacing of the brackets. You did comment the code, right? ;)
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I put out a programming style guide and the boss overruled a few things. For example I had call to a function as function_name( param1, param2 ); and my boss changed it to function_name (param1, param2); Honestly, to me it doesn't matter which way or even if both ways are used as long as an individual is consistent. However, I've written 8K SLOC in my style (before the guide came out) and now my boss wants me to "take however long it has to" to meet his style. BTW, no actual schedule relief is allowed and I'm supposed to be done this Monday. I can get the code working by COB Monday without his style guide changes to it. I may be another week of mind numbing work to change the spacing. So how much time should be spent doing the little things such as changing style? (just to let you know, the boss was going to put out the style guide until it was 4 months late then gave me the task) Thanks Joe Q
Setting a new style for new work and sticking to it may be productive. Modifying existing code to meet a style for something as trivial as a space is a clear sign of madness or a company that has so little work to do that they can spend time screwing around with what is (let's be honest here) entirely pointless. I wonder if the shareholders know how their expensive developer resources are being spent?
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This is the real WTFOTD: Your boss wants to risk the introduction of bugs for the zero benefit of a few brackets being rearranged because he couldn't be bothered to write the style guide before you started coding. Tell him it's too late. Tell him it'll take 3 months to restyle it. Tell him his style isn't supported by Microsoft. Tell him anything to avoid having to do this astonishingly stupid requirement. Anyway, it's the comments that are important, not the spacing of the brackets. You did comment the code, right? ;)
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I put out a programming style guide and the boss overruled a few things. For example I had call to a function as function_name( param1, param2 ); and my boss changed it to function_name (param1, param2); Honestly, to me it doesn't matter which way or even if both ways are used as long as an individual is consistent. However, I've written 8K SLOC in my style (before the guide came out) and now my boss wants me to "take however long it has to" to meet his style. BTW, no actual schedule relief is allowed and I'm supposed to be done this Monday. I can get the code working by COB Monday without his style guide changes to it. I may be another week of mind numbing work to change the spacing. So how much time should be spent doing the little things such as changing style? (just to let you know, the boss was going to put out the style guide until it was 4 months late then gave me the task) Thanks Joe Q
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Simon Capewell wrote:
You did comment the code, right?
Comments...what's that? :laugh: Yes, the code is fairly well commented. Actually, I'm probably going to tell him it's on my 2010 to do list (what I tell people when I don't want to do something).
2010 is less than 3 years 2 months away. I'm already using my 2020 to-do list.
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I put out a programming style guide and the boss overruled a few things. For example I had call to a function as function_name( param1, param2 ); and my boss changed it to function_name (param1, param2); Honestly, to me it doesn't matter which way or even if both ways are used as long as an individual is consistent. However, I've written 8K SLOC in my style (before the guide came out) and now my boss wants me to "take however long it has to" to meet his style. BTW, no actual schedule relief is allowed and I'm supposed to be done this Monday. I can get the code working by COB Monday without his style guide changes to it. I may be another week of mind numbing work to change the spacing. So how much time should be spent doing the little things such as changing style? (just to let you know, the boss was going to put out the style guide until it was 4 months late then gave me the task) Thanks Joe Q
Joe Q wrote:
So how much time should be spent doing the little things such as changing style?
Is you're boss a dev or wants to pretend he's one (I've seen that before too). If he has no real reason other than he likes his style better, then welcome to micro management hell.
Jeremy Falcon A multithreaded, OpenGL-enabled application.[^]
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Setting a new style for new work and sticking to it may be productive. Modifying existing code to meet a style for something as trivial as a space is a clear sign of madness or a company that has so little work to do that they can spend time screwing around with what is (let's be honest here) entirely pointless. I wonder if the shareholders know how their expensive developer resources are being spent?
John Cardinal wrote:
company that has so little work to do that they can spend time screwing around with what is (let's be honest here) entirely pointless.
Yeah, I get the impression the boss wants to play developer from this.
Jeremy Falcon A multithreaded, OpenGL-enabled application.[^]
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I put out a programming style guide and the boss overruled a few things. For example I had call to a function as function_name( param1, param2 ); and my boss changed it to function_name (param1, param2); Honestly, to me it doesn't matter which way or even if both ways are used as long as an individual is consistent. However, I've written 8K SLOC in my style (before the guide came out) and now my boss wants me to "take however long it has to" to meet his style. BTW, no actual schedule relief is allowed and I'm supposed to be done this Monday. I can get the code working by COB Monday without his style guide changes to it. I may be another week of mind numbing work to change the spacing. So how much time should be spent doing the little things such as changing style? (just to let you know, the boss was going to put out the style guide until it was 4 months late then gave me the task) Thanks Joe Q
Entirely superficial changes like whitespace...you shouldn't spend more than a few seconds changing from one style to another. Find a beautifier that does that for you?
It's frustrating being a genius and living the life of a moron!!!
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John Cardinal wrote:
company that has so little work to do that they can spend time screwing around with what is (let's be honest here) entirely pointless.
Yeah, I get the impression the boss wants to play developer from this.
Jeremy Falcon A multithreaded, OpenGL-enabled application.[^]
Yeah, so much so that he procrastinated for 4 months on the documentation. Typical developer!
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Actually, we're using National Instruments LabWindows CVI (C with Virtual Instrumets). It's C with a lot of extensions to control hardware. NI's tools are mainly for hardware guys with 1 programming course under their belts. In NI examples goto's are used quite often. What I'm saying is, there are no standards outside what we impose as a project. What I'll probably do is tell my boss it's on my 2010 todo list. Thanks
You're using CVI? You have my sympathy. :rose: I used to work on some of Racal Instruments instrumentation runtime systems and virtual instrument drivers, BTW. It was interesting stuff, and far more capable in its field than anything CVI was ever capable of.
Anna :rose: Linting the day away :cool: Anna's Place | Tears and Laughter "If mushy peas are the food of the devil, the stotty cake is the frisbee of God"
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I've always preferred the least spaces except after the comma: function_name(param1, param2) { }
"This perpetual motion machine she made is a joke. It just keeps going faster and faster. Lisa, get in here! In this house, we obey the laws of thermodynamics!" - Homer Simpson Web - Blog - RSS - Math - LinkedIn - BM
That's my style too - I use white space where it will aid legibility, but not to excess. :)
Anna :rose: Linting the day away :cool: Anna's Place | Tears and Laughter "If mushy peas are the food of the devil, the stotty cake is the frisbee of God"
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I put out a programming style guide and the boss overruled a few things. For example I had call to a function as function_name( param1, param2 ); and my boss changed it to function_name (param1, param2); Honestly, to me it doesn't matter which way or even if both ways are used as long as an individual is consistent. However, I've written 8K SLOC in my style (before the guide came out) and now my boss wants me to "take however long it has to" to meet his style. BTW, no actual schedule relief is allowed and I'm supposed to be done this Monday. I can get the code working by COB Monday without his style guide changes to it. I may be another week of mind numbing work to change the spacing. So how much time should be spent doing the little things such as changing style? (just to let you know, the boss was going to put out the style guide until it was 4 months late then gave me the task) Thanks Joe Q
You spend as much time on it as the boss want you to, then you document what you were working on. When he asks you why you aren't writing any new code, you bring out your documents and say, "Here, that's why." A good way to fix the style of lots of code is to use Visual Studio's auto-format feature. You may have to play with the setting a bit to get the exact style you want, but after that, you can open all your files, hit Ctrl-K-D on each one, and yer done. Really, you shouldn't be spending any time on that kind of crap. Old code should be 'grandfathered in' when a new style rule comes out, and should not be fixed until it's re-written. Also, the change you highlighted is totally stupid, and still wrong. It still has an extra space in it. Who is this fascist anyway?
"Quality Software since 1983!"
http://www.smoothjazzy.com/ - see the "Programming" section for (freeware) JazzySiteMaps, a simple application to generate .Net and Google-style sitemaps! -
No visual studio here. It's National Instruments LabWindows CVI. I am doing that type of replace. Thanks
NI CVI has extensive capability to do what you want, including regular expressions and multiple files. Open any source file, then select Edit/Replace. In that window you can enter what you want to change, how you want to change it, what files you want to act on, etc. Hope this allows you more time with your family. Phil Shell
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2010 is less than 3 years 2 months away. I'm already using my 2020 to-do list.
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Joe Q wrote:
So how much time should be spent doing the little things such as changing style?
Is you're boss a dev or wants to pretend he's one (I've seen that before too). If he has no real reason other than he likes his style better, then welcome to micro management hell.
Jeremy Falcon A multithreaded, OpenGL-enabled application.[^]
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Entirely superficial changes like whitespace...you shouldn't spend more than a few seconds changing from one style to another. Find a beautifier that does that for you?
It's frustrating being a genius and living the life of a moron!!!
Hockey wrote:
Find a beautifier that does that for you?
Do you have a suggestion? I've tried one on another (I forget the name)project. It was VERY flexable but hard to get the right set of attributes to make the code like the style guide (I never got it perfect)
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You're using CVI? You have my sympathy. :rose: I used to work on some of Racal Instruments instrumentation runtime systems and virtual instrument drivers, BTW. It was interesting stuff, and far more capable in its field than anything CVI was ever capable of.
Anna :rose: Linting the day away :cool: Anna's Place | Tears and Laughter "If mushy peas are the food of the devil, the stotty cake is the frisbee of God"
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You spend as much time on it as the boss want you to, then you document what you were working on. When he asks you why you aren't writing any new code, you bring out your documents and say, "Here, that's why." A good way to fix the style of lots of code is to use Visual Studio's auto-format feature. You may have to play with the setting a bit to get the exact style you want, but after that, you can open all your files, hit Ctrl-K-D on each one, and yer done. Really, you shouldn't be spending any time on that kind of crap. Old code should be 'grandfathered in' when a new style rule comes out, and should not be fixed until it's re-written. Also, the change you highlighted is totally stupid, and still wrong. It still has an extra space in it. Who is this fascist anyway?
"Quality Software since 1983!"
http://www.smoothjazzy.com/ - see the "Programming" section for (freeware) JazzySiteMaps, a simple application to generate .Net and Google-style sitemaps!Jasmine2501 wrote:
You spend as much time on it as the boss want you to, then you document what you were working on. When he asks you why you aren't writing any new code, you bring out your documents and say, "Here, that's why."
I've tried things like that before and I usually just get dinged for not completing everything. Around here, it seems many managers have no concept of time. I tell them I have 2 tasks and enough time to do one and ask which ONE should I do? The answer around here is BOTH. When I try to explain about the concept of linear time that doesn't expand or contract (except in meetings) they just get upset with me.