Office politics: watching your enemy die
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"Well, needless to day I have made several enemies at work (who hasn't?). I don't get along with a project lead recently. He is working on a major release. I know he is overlooking some important things on this project and it is likely the release will be a failure. But I don't want to tell him. In the past he has been very ungrateful and annoying. Anything I say could be taken the wrong way. I am sick and tired of helping others to solve hard problems and not getting any recgnition afterwards." Now I am waiting for your 1 votes. But ask yourself first: have you done or thought of doing such things?
Dr. No wrote:
But I don't want to tell him. In the past he has been very ungrateful and annoying. Anything I say could be taken the wrong way. I am sick and tired of helping others to solve hard problems and not getting any recgnition afterwards."
That's too subtle for my taste. Why don't you just beat him up instead?
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Your name says it all. Why all the negativity and selfish considerations? If you view the project manager as your enemy, there is no wonder that the project is going to fail. The first requirement for a succesful project, is for a team that is willing to work together and foster this is in everything they do. Until that starts, all the tools or processes are doomed to fail. Period.
Chris Meech I am Canadian. [heard in a local bar] I agree with you that my argument is useless. [Red Stateler] Hey, I am part of a special bread, we are called smart people [Captain See Sharp] The zen of the soapbox is hard to attain...[Jörgen Sigvardsson] I wish I could remember what it was like to only have a short term memory.[David Kentley]
Chris Meech wrote:
If you view the project manager as your enemy, there is no wonder that the project is going to fail.
I am not on this project, btw. It is not that I didn't help in the past. I did and got slapped in the face (not literally). So it is time for a change.
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Dr. No wrote:
I am sick and tired of helping others to solve hard problems and not getting any recgnition afterwards.
Although one can understand the sentiment, and I have allowed other groups (outside ours) to falter, when you allow your own company personel to falter because you want the hero recognition, then you are letting your company falter. If there is a problem with recognition, within reason, take it up with the bosses, don't let the company fail to make your point. Good luck!
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
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Judah Himango wrote:
In the end, what will that get you?
That will get him the satisfaction he deserves and the punishment his enemy deserves. Although I cant really judge either of them.
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Seeing your enemy suffer may bring temporary satisfaction, but in the long run, what you've done is made your enemy hate you more, and made other people notice your pleasure at another's suffering. So, you're trading long-term happiness for temporary satisfaction. Bad deal.
Tech, life, family, faith: Give me a visit. I'm currently blogging about: God-as-Judge, God-as-Forgiver The apostle Paul, modernly speaking: Epistles of Paul Judah Himango
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"Well, needless to day I have made several enemies at work (who hasn't?). I don't get along with a project lead recently. He is working on a major release. I know he is overlooking some important things on this project and it is likely the release will be a failure. But I don't want to tell him. In the past he has been very ungrateful and annoying. Anything I say could be taken the wrong way. I am sick and tired of helping others to solve hard problems and not getting any recgnition afterwards." Now I am waiting for your 1 votes. But ask yourself first: have you done or thought of doing such things?
I do not see how you could be satisfied with being part of a project headed to the wall? Every member of the team should help steer in the right direction.
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Chris Meech wrote:
If you view the project manager as your enemy, there is no wonder that the project is going to fail.
I am not on this project, btw. It is not that I didn't help in the past. I did and got slapped in the face (not literally). So it is time for a change.
Funny story, not meant to be specific to you but your post reminded me of it. I have a friend that used to work at HP in Boise. He had a project lead that disliked him a lot and just overall mean to my friend. Every time there was an incident my friend would note the date and time, and what had happened. Then things came to a head one day that was especially bad and he went to HR to give his resignation. Along with it he showed them his log of abuse he had been keeping. He was given 6 months severance pay on the spot, and his project lead fired. Just goes to show you always have the option of keeping your dignity while at the same time protecting yourself (and in this case getting compensation as a perk).
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Judah Himango wrote:
Don't you think you'd be happier in the end if you actually helped him out, even if he didn't deserve it?
No, that's why I decided to do something different (not helping him) this time.
Man, I wish people could transfer experiences. You'll find in time that not helping people -- regardless of whether that person deserves help -- leads you towards a self-serving life. Part of making good of bad situations is living your life unselfishly. It ultimately brings more satisfaction and happiness than a few moments of gratification at your enemy's expense.
Tech, life, family, faith: Give me a visit. I'm currently blogging about: God-as-Judge, God-as-Forgiver The apostle Paul, modernly speaking: Epistles of Paul Judah Himango
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"Well, needless to day I have made several enemies at work (who hasn't?). I don't get along with a project lead recently. He is working on a major release. I know he is overlooking some important things on this project and it is likely the release will be a failure. But I don't want to tell him. In the past he has been very ungrateful and annoying. Anything I say could be taken the wrong way. I am sick and tired of helping others to solve hard problems and not getting any recgnition afterwards." Now I am waiting for your 1 votes. But ask yourself first: have you done or thought of doing such things?
I disagree completely. I have worked at places where this felt like the situation at times (that a manager was taking credit for my ideas/work), especially when contracting. It didn't bother me for several reasons:
- I was doing interesting work and doing a great job on it, which is very satisfying in itself.
- I was getting well compensated for my work and that is the contract I signed up for.
- If you are well-liked and competent, help others and do a great job, people know it. (This takes a conscious effort, so you have to believe it is an important part of your job.) If someone says bad things about you, blames you for schedule shortfalls or project problems, or takes credit for your work, everyone but that person knows it is a sham. Don't worry about it, such poeple will self-destruct on their own (and even if they go on to be very successful, who cares? Follow your own path and don't dwell on the path followed by others.).
Note that if you are moderately competent, or incompetent, are a selfish jerk and only you know :sigh: you are hot stuff, then the above is not true. Remember that you may not be the best judge of your own competence (especially if you are incompetent!) or character. :) -- modified at 13:39 Friday 1st December, 2006
Matt Gerrans
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"Well, needless to day I have made several enemies at work (who hasn't?). I don't get along with a project lead recently. He is working on a major release. I know he is overlooking some important things on this project and it is likely the release will be a failure. But I don't want to tell him. In the past he has been very ungrateful and annoying. Anything I say could be taken the wrong way. I am sick and tired of helping others to solve hard problems and not getting any recgnition afterwards." Now I am waiting for your 1 votes. But ask yourself first: have you done or thought of doing such things?
Dr. No wrote:
Well, needless to day I have made several enemies at work (who hasn't?)
Believe it or not, I haven't made any enemies at work...
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
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"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001 -
"Well, needless to day I have made several enemies at work (who hasn't?). I don't get along with a project lead recently. He is working on a major release. I know he is overlooking some important things on this project and it is likely the release will be a failure. But I don't want to tell him. In the past he has been very ungrateful and annoying. Anything I say could be taken the wrong way. I am sick and tired of helping others to solve hard problems and not getting any recgnition afterwards." Now I am waiting for your 1 votes. But ask yourself first: have you done or thought of doing such things?
Don't listen to the liberal wimps telling you to do what is best for the company. Also don't be passive aggressive since that will not help you. You need some ambition, and get tougher. Do whatever it takes to become a tough business politician. Prioritize your own career ambitions because you are the only one that will. Find some good books that teach you how to manipulate people. After you become the CEO you can worry about doing what is best for the company.
led mike
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Seeing your enemy suffer may bring temporary satisfaction, but in the long run, what you've done is made your enemy hate you more, and made other people notice your pleasure at another's suffering. So, you're trading long-term happiness for temporary satisfaction. Bad deal.
Tech, life, family, faith: Give me a visit. I'm currently blogging about: God-as-Judge, God-as-Forgiver The apostle Paul, modernly speaking: Epistles of Paul Judah Himango
Well said!
Matt Gerrans
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"Well, needless to day I have made several enemies at work (who hasn't?). I don't get along with a project lead recently. He is working on a major release. I know he is overlooking some important things on this project and it is likely the release will be a failure. But I don't want to tell him. In the past he has been very ungrateful and annoying. Anything I say could be taken the wrong way. I am sick and tired of helping others to solve hard problems and not getting any recgnition afterwards." Now I am waiting for your 1 votes. But ask yourself first: have you done or thought of doing such things?
:doh: And people wonder why I wrote Tribes...
Author of The Career Programmer and Unite the Tribes www.PracticalStrategyConsulting.com
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I disagree completely. I have worked at places where this felt like the situation at times (that a manager was taking credit for my ideas/work), especially when contracting. It didn't bother me for several reasons:
- I was doing interesting work and doing a great job on it, which is very satisfying in itself.
- I was getting well compensated for my work and that is the contract I signed up for.
- If you are well-liked and competent, help others and do a great job, people know it. (This takes a conscious effort, so you have to believe it is an important part of your job.) If someone says bad things about you, blames you for schedule shortfalls or project problems, or takes credit for your work, everyone but that person knows it is a sham. Don't worry about it, such poeple will self-destruct on their own (and even if they go on to be very successful, who cares? Follow your own path and don't dwell on the path followed by others.).
Note that if you are moderately competent, or incompetent, are a selfish jerk and only you know :sigh: you are hot stuff, then the above is not true. Remember that you may not be the best judge of your own competence (especially if you are incompetent!) or character. :) -- modified at 13:39 Friday 1st December, 2006
Matt Gerrans
Matt Gerrans wrote:
you may not be the best judge of your own competence (especially if you are incompetent!)
ouark ouark !!!! :laugh: :laugh:
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"Well, needless to day I have made several enemies at work (who hasn't?). I don't get along with a project lead recently. He is working on a major release. I know he is overlooking some important things on this project and it is likely the release will be a failure. But I don't want to tell him. In the past he has been very ungrateful and annoying. Anything I say could be taken the wrong way. I am sick and tired of helping others to solve hard problems and not getting any recgnition afterwards." Now I am waiting for your 1 votes. But ask yourself first: have you done or thought of doing such things?
I disagree with most of the above posts. If you know that the project lead won't respond well if you inform him that he is overlooking things then don't say anything. Just sit back and smile as the project fails. I see nothing wrong with that. I don't have any issues like this at my current job, but I've worked with Aholes before. If someone won't listen to you even though you know what you are talking about then don't waste any energy on it. Just keep your mouth shut, it is not your problem. You can lead a horse to water...
how vital enterprise application are for proactive organizations leveraging collective synergy to think outside the box and formulate their key objectives into a win-win game plan with a quality-driven approach that focuses on empowering key players to drive-up their core competencies and increase expectations with an all-around initiative to drive up the bottom-line. But of course, that's all a "high level" overview of things --thedailywtf 3/21/06
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I disagree completely. I have worked at places where this felt like the situation at times (that a manager was taking credit for my ideas/work), especially when contracting. It didn't bother me for several reasons:
- I was doing interesting work and doing a great job on it, which is very satisfying in itself.
- I was getting well compensated for my work and that is the contract I signed up for.
- If you are well-liked and competent, help others and do a great job, people know it. (This takes a conscious effort, so you have to believe it is an important part of your job.) If someone says bad things about you, blames you for schedule shortfalls or project problems, or takes credit for your work, everyone but that person knows it is a sham. Don't worry about it, such poeple will self-destruct on their own (and even if they go on to be very successful, who cares? Follow your own path and don't dwell on the path followed by others.).
Note that if you are moderately competent, or incompetent, are a selfish jerk and only you know :sigh: you are hot stuff, then the above is not true. Remember that you may not be the best judge of your own competence (especially if you are incompetent!) or character. :) -- modified at 13:39 Friday 1st December, 2006
Matt Gerrans
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Dr. No wrote:
Well, needless to day I have made several enemies at work (who hasn't?)
Believe it or not, I haven't made any enemies at work...
"Why don't you tie a kerosene-soaked rag around your ankles so the ants won't climb up and eat your candy ass..." - Dale Earnhardt, 1997
-----
"...the staggering layers of obscenity in your statement make it a work of art on so many levels." - Jason Jystad, 10/26/2001 -
Don't listen to the liberal wimps telling you to do what is best for the company. Also don't be passive aggressive since that will not help you. You need some ambition, and get tougher. Do whatever it takes to become a tough business politician. Prioritize your own career ambitions because you are the only one that will. Find some good books that teach you how to manipulate people. After you become the CEO you can worry about doing what is best for the company.
led mike
And you really think these kinds of advice will help him?
led mike wrote:
Find some good books that teach you how to manipulate people
Isn't it a little simplistic? People are not that dumb. This kind of thinking can backfire at you very badly. Did you apply to yourself what you are preaching? Are you a CEO?
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John Simmons / outlaw programmer wrote:
Believe it or not, I haven't made any enemies at work...
I salute you, POPE John. ;)
I don't know John personally, but from what I gather, the difference is John may be tough as nails, he is honest to a fault. He's an outlaw because he will tell you the truth even when you don't want to hear it. That earns respect.
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
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Jeffry J. Brickley wrote:
then you are letting your company falter
In the long run it may turn out to be a good thing (for the company).
Dr. No wrote:
In the long run it may turn out to be a good thing (for the company).
the long run is up to the owner/bosses to decide, unless you work for a co-op and are an equal share owner in the company. Bosses don't take kindly to you deciding what is good for their company, they would much rather you tell them what is going on and they make the decision.
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
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I disagree with most of the above posts. If you know that the project lead won't respond well if you inform him that he is overlooking things then don't say anything. Just sit back and smile as the project fails. I see nothing wrong with that. I don't have any issues like this at my current job, but I've worked with Aholes before. If someone won't listen to you even though you know what you are talking about then don't waste any energy on it. Just keep your mouth shut, it is not your problem. You can lead a horse to water...
how vital enterprise application are for proactive organizations leveraging collective synergy to think outside the box and formulate their key objectives into a win-win game plan with a quality-driven approach that focuses on empowering key players to drive-up their core competencies and increase expectations with an all-around initiative to drive up the bottom-line. But of course, that's all a "high level" overview of things --thedailywtf 3/21/06
ToddHileHoffer wrote:
If you know that the project lead won't respond well if you inform him that he is overlooking things then don't say anything.
There are other, more effective ways of handling these things. Techies are the first to complain when their lives are adversely affected by the consequences of other people's stupidity, whether it's managers or coworkers. And yet, few choose to develop the skills necessary to head these problems off. It's easier to ignore it, hope it'll go away on its own, and then just complain about it when Bad Things inevitably happen. I do understand your sentiments. However, as my plumber friends used to say, shit rolls downhill. And techies are usually pretty close to the landing zone. When the project fails, and it will, it's unrealistic to think that you'll be immune to the fallout. You can do something about it, or be a professional victim. I choose the former.
Author of The Career Programmer and Unite the Tribes www.PracticalStrategyConsulting.com