Can't always trust Google Maps....
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I used to Live in Newbury; now in Glasgow,
Blog Have I http:\\www.frankkerrigan.com
Whoa! Small country. One of my best friends moved from Newbury back to Glasgow a few years ago too. He is living in Cumbernauld. If you ever get a chance to see a local Glasgow band called "The 88s", well, he's the lead singer. :) Just looked at your blog - I am doing an OU degree at the moment and studied MU120 last year (which was a brilliant course). The OU rocks IMHO, so good luck with your studies!
Kicking squealing Gucci little piggy.
The Rob Blog -
Currently Cookham, north of Maidenhead. We'll be moving in the next few months - proposed locations: Winnersh or Theale. Most of the staff live east of, or in, Reading so would prefer Winnersh, but the boss moved to Marlborough, presumably to be nearer the parent company in Chippenham. The company has already given notice on our current lease which leaves us a little worried that we'll actually end up in the parent company's building. If that happens, though, I would expect most of the developers to leave. We're rooted in this area (a few rent but most own houses).
Stability. What an interesting concept. -- Chris Maunder
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Mike Dimmick wrote:
I live in Reading
Greetings from sunny Thatcham. :)
Kicking squealing Gucci little piggy.
The Rob Blog -
If this isn't quite true I'd still like it to be true! :)
Ant. I'm hard, yet soft.
I'm coloured, yet clear.
I'm fruity and sweet.
I'm jelly, what am I? Muse on it further, I shall return! - David Walliams (Little Britain)He did seem genuine! A GPS should be accurate to a few metres, but that assumes the user has set it up to the correct co-ordinate system and knows how to read the display! A friend of mine, a fully qualified sea captain, was bringing a racing yacht from Norway to Scotland, they arrived in the dark and were all tired so he relied on the GPS to get him into the Scottish Loch, he ended up on a sand bank! The GPS position was out by a few hundred metres
"Normal is getting dressed in clothes that you buy for work and driving through traffic in a car that you are still paying for - in order to get to the job you need to pay for the clothes and the car, and the house you leave vacant all day so you can afford to live in it." - Ellen Goodman
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I use a back route to get to work, rather than the A4 trunk road. On the back route, there is a low railway bridge. I regularly meet large lorries coming the other way, or follow one which suddenly has to stop and turn around on encountering the bridge. I'm guessing that there's no way to tell the GPS system that they're using that the vehicle is a particular size and will be unable to pass under the bridge. I suspect also that there's no way to tell the software that it will be difficult for lorries to navigate sharp corners, or that the vehicle is heavy and should avoid weak bridges with weight limits. I sometimes see vehicles far too big attempting to get through Sonning, where there is a narrow, weak bridge in close proximity to a sharp corner. With GPS it's far too easy to trust the directions you're being given and not pay enough attention to the signage on the ground.
Stability. What an interesting concept. -- Chris Maunder
Mike Dimmick wrote:
and not pay enough attention to the signage on the ground
We have that problem locally, where lorries follow the GPS and ignore the road sign that say no HGVs and promptly get stuck on the bends because an HGV can't get round them!
"Normal is getting dressed in clothes that you buy for work and driving through traffic in a car that you are still paying for - in order to get to the job you need to pay for the clothes and the car, and the house you leave vacant all day so you can afford to live in it." - Ellen Goodman
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Mike Dimmick wrote:
and not pay enough attention to the signage on the ground
We have that problem locally, where lorries follow the GPS and ignore the road sign that say no HGVs and promptly get stuck on the bends because an HGV can't get round them!
"Normal is getting dressed in clothes that you buy for work and driving through traffic in a car that you are still paying for - in order to get to the job you need to pay for the clothes and the car, and the house you leave vacant all day so you can afford to live in it." - Ellen Goodman
Apparently, the Transport Agenct and various GPS device manufacturers are currently in discussions about trying to provide seperate databases for HGV's and Non-HGV's, with the HGV database having no b roads therein. T'was on one or other news programme this week.
Rhys I'm glad I'm not Brezhnev. Being the Russian leader in the Kremlin, you never know if someone's tape-recording what you say. Richard Nixon
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Mike Dimmick wrote:
I'm guessing that there's no way to tell the GPS system that they're using that the vehicle is a particular size and will be unable to pass under the bridge.
If the lorry drivers were sued personally for all losses caused by them hitting bridges they'd soon start to take more care.
I don't think you can blame it on the lorry drivers, most of the time it comes down from the haulage firms. Apparently you can buy in-cab GPS systems that are aware of your height and length and can route accordingly, but they are more expensive than the ones you get for cars so many firms don't bother. Personally I use GPS for the map only, so I can see where I am and check I am on the road I am expecting to be on. I find it much easier than constantly tracing a route on a printed map. You would be a fool to ever start driving without knowing the route you were taking, even if it is just writing down a bunch of road names from Autoroute or a book of maps.
Ðavid Wulff What kind of music to programmers listen to?
Join the Code Project Last.fm group | dwulff
I'm so gangsta I eat cereal without the milk -
I was reading about James Kim on wikipedia, and came across this: Wow! I wonder if the GPS system in the cars would show a better route than Google maps does. ============================================== Some observers believe that the Kim tragedy highlights the limitations of Google Maps, Yahoo! Maps, MapQuest, and other online mapping applications. Because the Kims, who did not know the area, had telephoned from Roseburg, Oregon to a motel in Gold Beach, to say that they would be arriving late, it was speculated that James Kim, a technology expert, used online mapping to find the “fastest” route between Roseburg and Gold Beach. During the hunt for the Kims, a number of computer users tested programs such as Google Maps and MapQuest to map the shortest route between the two towns. The programs reportedly listed Bear Camp Road, where the Kims got stuck, as the most efficient shortcut. However, it is rarely used even by local residents due to its difficult terrain and inclement weather.[11] The online mapping programs have apparently changed and as of December 7, 2006, show the drive along Highways 5 and 42 to Coast Highway 101 as the preferred route between Roseburg and Gold Beach. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Kim[^]
That is a tragic story. I generally view technology with some level of skepticism for such reasons. Recently we got a auto GPS unit. Over all it works quite well but recently we were looking at property in north west Georgia (USA that is). Keyed in an address and the device plotted a route. The route was straight up the side of a mountain on a very narrow and VERY steep gravel road. I don't think we were in any danger but if a car had come the other way it would have been interesting since there were not even pull off areas to let oncoming traffic by. At least I got to say "I wasn't the one who wanted a GPS". After that we selected the 'avoid unpaved roads' option. I was impressed that the mapping software 'knew' about this gravel road and apparently forrest service roads as well.
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I've never trusted google maps because the first time I used it I tried a route that I already knew quite well. In order to get out of Edinburgh it decided that the best route was to head north out of the city centre, then turn west for about 5 miles, then back south again (to get on the same road that the directions started on), then west along a motorway (for 30 miles) and south along another (for 40 miles) before meeting the route I'd have chosen. Google said its route would take about 2 hours. The route I would have chosen went directly south out of Edinburgh City Centre and along a south-west route once out the city for about 50 miles before connecting with the route google suggested. I know that route would take about 2 hours. I've driven google's route (without heading the wrong way in the city itself) and I know it will take about 2.5 hours.
Upcoming Scottish Developers events: * We are starting a series of events in Glasgow in 2007. Are you interested in a particular subject, or as a speaker? * Developer Day Scotland: are you interested in speaking or attending? My: Website | Blog | Photos
Before I moved into my current apartment I entered the address into mapquest (as I wasn't sure where it was). I was reading the directions and something struck me as odd and it didn't really register with me until I got to that point in the directions... It wanted me to go the wrong way down a one-way. I agree it would have been the fastest and shortest route, but certainly the most dangerous.
Matt Newman
Even the very best tools in the hands of an idiot will produce something of little or no value. - Chris Meech on Idiots -
Before I moved into my current apartment I entered the address into mapquest (as I wasn't sure where it was). I was reading the directions and something struck me as odd and it didn't really register with me until I got to that point in the directions... It wanted me to go the wrong way down a one-way. I agree it would have been the fastest and shortest route, but certainly the most dangerous.
Matt Newman
Even the very best tools in the hands of an idiot will produce something of little or no value. - Chris Meech on Idiots -
I don't think you can blame it on the lorry drivers, most of the time it comes down from the haulage firms. Apparently you can buy in-cab GPS systems that are aware of your height and length and can route accordingly, but they are more expensive than the ones you get for cars so many firms don't bother. Personally I use GPS for the map only, so I can see where I am and check I am on the road I am expecting to be on. I find it much easier than constantly tracing a route on a printed map. You would be a fool to ever start driving without knowing the route you were taking, even if it is just writing down a bunch of road names from Autoroute or a book of maps.
Ðavid Wulff What kind of music to programmers listen to?
Join the Code Project Last.fm group | dwulff
I'm so gangsta I eat cereal without the milkDavid Wulff wrote:
I don't think you can blame it on the lorry drivers, most of the time it comes down from the haulage firms.
:confused: It's the haulage firms' fault that their drivers don't (1) know the heights of their vehicles and (2) read road signs? I can't agree. It's like a passenger telling you to go the wrong way down a wrong way street and you doing it regardless of what the signs say. It's the driver's fault for not driving safely and paying attention to the roads.
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David Wulff wrote:
I don't think you can blame it on the lorry drivers, most of the time it comes down from the haulage firms.
:confused: It's the haulage firms' fault that their drivers don't (1) know the heights of their vehicles and (2) read road signs? I can't agree. It's like a passenger telling you to go the wrong way down a wrong way street and you doing it regardless of what the signs say. It's the driver's fault for not driving safely and paying attention to the roads.
Steve_Harris wrote:
It's the haulage firms' fault that their drivers don't (1) know the heights of their vehicles and (2) read road signs?
No, it is the haulage firms' fault for forcing them to follow their preset routes. Shorter, quicker routes = less fuel costs and faster turnaround. They had a phone in discussion on the radio a few weeks back about this and some drivers called in to say that they were basically told to follow the shortest routes or drop off their keys on their way out of the depot. With firms facing costs that are constantly rising above the prices they can charge, it is no wonder that some are having to take risks to stay in business. We're not talking about drivers breaking the road laws here, we're talking about them legally using marked B and C roads when they would normally use the main routes. As the sat nav data providers start to include more information about height and weight obstacles, the problem should eventually go away, but at present the data is only there with a few providers and it is expensive to upgrade. You need new equipment, and new - more costly - subscriptions.
Ðavid Wulff What kind of music to programmers listen to?
Join the Code Project Last.fm group | dwulff
I'm so gangsta I eat cereal without the milk -
I was reading about James Kim on wikipedia, and came across this: Wow! I wonder if the GPS system in the cars would show a better route than Google maps does. ============================================== Some observers believe that the Kim tragedy highlights the limitations of Google Maps, Yahoo! Maps, MapQuest, and other online mapping applications. Because the Kims, who did not know the area, had telephoned from Roseburg, Oregon to a motel in Gold Beach, to say that they would be arriving late, it was speculated that James Kim, a technology expert, used online mapping to find the “fastest” route between Roseburg and Gold Beach. During the hunt for the Kims, a number of computer users tested programs such as Google Maps and MapQuest to map the shortest route between the two towns. The programs reportedly listed Bear Camp Road, where the Kims got stuck, as the most efficient shortcut. However, it is rarely used even by local residents due to its difficult terrain and inclement weather.[11] The online mapping programs have apparently changed and as of December 7, 2006, show the drive along Highways 5 and 42 to Coast Highway 101 as the preferred route between Roseburg and Gold Beach. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Kim[^]
- mapping systems have no knowledge of elevation deltas (or elevation in general) 2) even google earth, where you "see" elevation data, don't assume it actually examines it 3) nothing has ever come close to human parallel thought, don't knock the mind, its smarter than a computer 4) There is no correlation between street addresses and geographical location (lat/long) 5) There is very limited geographical information on roads, absolute minimal point to point mapping 6) Read the directions, look at the roads in hybrid on imagery, ask locals (yes I advocate talking to people) When I travel I do use mapping programs, GPS's and other devices, but I know they have the reroute for gps devices and use it. If it looks like too difficult to travel, I pass it, force the system to reroute. I ask at hotels to verify directions, rental car places. Or drive with someone else the first time when possible. Technology is "an assistant" not a replacement for thought.
_________________________ Asu no koto o ieba, tenjo de nezumi ga warau. Talk about things of tomorrow and the mice in the ceiling laugh. (Japanese Proverb)
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I was reading about James Kim on wikipedia, and came across this: Wow! I wonder if the GPS system in the cars would show a better route than Google maps does. ============================================== Some observers believe that the Kim tragedy highlights the limitations of Google Maps, Yahoo! Maps, MapQuest, and other online mapping applications. Because the Kims, who did not know the area, had telephoned from Roseburg, Oregon to a motel in Gold Beach, to say that they would be arriving late, it was speculated that James Kim, a technology expert, used online mapping to find the “fastest” route between Roseburg and Gold Beach. During the hunt for the Kims, a number of computer users tested programs such as Google Maps and MapQuest to map the shortest route between the two towns. The programs reportedly listed Bear Camp Road, where the Kims got stuck, as the most efficient shortcut. However, it is rarely used even by local residents due to its difficult terrain and inclement weather.[11] The online mapping programs have apparently changed and as of December 7, 2006, show the drive along Highways 5 and 42 to Coast Highway 101 as the preferred route between Roseburg and Gold Beach. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Kim[^]
Yeah and after geocaching for many years I've come to realize that using a gps is an art and if you buy one throw it in the glove box then need to rely on it you may be screwed. Geocaching is a great way to learn the limitations and techniques to really use one.
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Steve_Harris wrote:
It's the haulage firms' fault that their drivers don't (1) know the heights of their vehicles and (2) read road signs?
No, it is the haulage firms' fault for forcing them to follow their preset routes. Shorter, quicker routes = less fuel costs and faster turnaround. They had a phone in discussion on the radio a few weeks back about this and some drivers called in to say that they were basically told to follow the shortest routes or drop off their keys on their way out of the depot. With firms facing costs that are constantly rising above the prices they can charge, it is no wonder that some are having to take risks to stay in business. We're not talking about drivers breaking the road laws here, we're talking about them legally using marked B and C roads when they would normally use the main routes. As the sat nav data providers start to include more information about height and weight obstacles, the problem should eventually go away, but at present the data is only there with a few providers and it is expensive to upgrade. You need new equipment, and new - more costly - subscriptions.
Ðavid Wulff What kind of music to programmers listen to?
Join the Code Project Last.fm group | dwulff
I'm so gangsta I eat cereal without the milkWhat's the shortest route: the one that gets the lorry stuck under a bridge for a day, and damages it into the bargain, or the route that is a few hundred yards longer but is bridge-free and actually allows the lorry to arrive? Forcing drivers to use a road doesn't mean that a driver has to disengage his brain and try to drive under a bridge that's 12" lower than the top of his lorry.
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Mike Dimmick wrote:
and not pay enough attention to the signage on the ground
We have that problem locally, where lorries follow the GPS and ignore the road sign that say no HGVs and promptly get stuck on the bends because an HGV can't get round them!
"Normal is getting dressed in clothes that you buy for work and driving through traffic in a car that you are still paying for - in order to get to the job you need to pay for the clothes and the car, and the house you leave vacant all day so you can afford to live in it." - Ellen Goodman
Ted Ferenc wrote:
We have that problem locally, where lorries follow the GPS and ignore the road sign that say no HGVs and promptly get stuck on the bends because an HGV can't get round them!
The driver should be prosecuted for dangerous driving because he ignored the "No HGV" sign. Owning a satnav is no excuse to stop reading road signs.
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Ted Ferenc wrote:
We have that problem locally, where lorries follow the GPS and ignore the road sign that say no HGVs and promptly get stuck on the bends because an HGV can't get round them!
The driver should be prosecuted for dangerous driving because he ignored the "No HGV" sign. Owning a satnav is no excuse to stop reading road signs.
Steve_Harris wrote:
The driver should be prosecuted
Ahh that needs proof, local residents have tried that. For proof you need evidence, photographs, registration number written down etc, don't seem to count, so you need a police man to spot the infringement, and guess what? As it is a small village there are no policemen to spare! But they are looking in to it!
"Normal is getting dressed in clothes that you buy for work and driving through traffic in a car that you are still paying for - in order to get to the job you need to pay for the clothes and the car, and the house you leave vacant all day so you can afford to live in it." - Ellen Goodman
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Steve_Harris wrote:
The driver should be prosecuted
Ahh that needs proof, local residents have tried that. For proof you need evidence, photographs, registration number written down etc, don't seem to count, so you need a police man to spot the infringement, and guess what? As it is a small village there are no policemen to spare! But they are looking in to it!
"Normal is getting dressed in clothes that you buy for work and driving through traffic in a car that you are still paying for - in order to get to the job you need to pay for the clothes and the car, and the house you leave vacant all day so you can afford to live in it." - Ellen Goodman
Ted Ferenc wrote:
For proof you need evidence, photographs, registration number written down etc, don't seem to count, so you need a police man to spot the infringement, and guess what? As it is a small village there are no po
Then you need 3 vigilantees and 2 sets of tire shredder strips. a spotter, someone to deploy a plate ahead of the truck, and someone to block the trucks retreat by placing a second behind if it stops before running over the first. ;P;P;P
-- Rules of thumb should not be taken for the whole hand.
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Ted Ferenc wrote:
For proof you need evidence, photographs, registration number written down etc, don't seem to count, so you need a police man to spot the infringement, and guess what? As it is a small village there are no po
Then you need 3 vigilantees and 2 sets of tire shredder strips. a spotter, someone to deploy a plate ahead of the truck, and someone to block the trucks retreat by placing a second behind if it stops before running over the first. ;P;P;P
-- Rules of thumb should not be taken for the whole hand.
You forgot the baseball bats!
"Normal is getting dressed in clothes that you buy for work and driving through traffic in a car that you are still paying for - in order to get to the job you need to pay for the clothes and the car, and the house you leave vacant all day so you can afford to live in it." - Ellen Goodman
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What's the shortest route: the one that gets the lorry stuck under a bridge for a day, and damages it into the bargain, or the route that is a few hundred yards longer but is bridge-free and actually allows the lorry to arrive? Forcing drivers to use a road doesn't mean that a driver has to disengage his brain and try to drive under a bridge that's 12" lower than the top of his lorry.
Steve_Harris wrote:
What's the shortest route
The one that comes up when you type in your destination and click on 'find shortest route'. It's really very simple. No driver will deliberately take their vehicle under a bridge that is too low or down a road that is too narrow, but when your route guidance tells you it is a perfectly good route and gives no indication of the road quality how are you to tell? Sat nav systems don't usually tell you the class of a road -- only the name -- and some major A and B roads are given local names not their designation. 99% of the time it will not be a problem, so how can you predict "oh, this route is a bad one" ? Even then, an A designation in itself is no indicator of road suitability. Just look at the A396 - the main route between Exeter and Tiverton in the South West. It goes over a narrow hump bridge at Bickleigh that some cars have problems driving over, let alone the dozen or so artics that have to be rescused after getting stuck there each year. I was stuck in a bus one time for a whole afternoon while a crane was brought forward to lift off a trailer. It's not on the map as a hazard. Let's not forget the A3072 either - the main route to Crediton. It has hills on it I have trouble getting up, let alone a heavily laden truck, but if you want to get from Tiverton to Crediton you have no other choice other than a 40 mile 2 1/2 hour detour through Exeter and back again. That's not hown on the map either. They had people like you on the phone in, tying to place as much blame on truck drivers as possible. Never mind all the family cars that get stuck on dirt tracks for not being able to take their own advice. Sat nav is no different to using a map book - it just gives you directions, it doesn't drive you there. Road maps will rarely show you local restrictions.
Ðavid Wulff What kind of music to programmers listen to?
Join the Code Project Last.fm group | dwulff
I'm so gangsta I eat cereal without the milk